Power supplies and cables - observations, considerations & commentary

[genjamon]

Larry reported to me this morning that the issue has been resolved.

 

Well, kind of. Yeah, a cheater plug on the HDPlex worked to eliminate the noise. However, this has me using a cheater plug permanently, which is not ideal from my perspective. I'm curious why an older version of the same unit worked fine last weekend in my system, but the one I purchased did not. Furthermore, I've gone to considerable expense to outfit my whole system with high quality power cords featuring the Furutech FI-50 carbon fiber rhodium plated connectors, and their GTX® outlets. Now one of those plug/outlet connections is interrupted by a 50 cent Walmart cheater plug. That outlet and FI-50 connector are together worth more than the HDPlex unit itself. So, I'm not exactly satisfied to leave things in their current condition without at least trying to explore why the issue exists for one power supply but not another, and if anything can be done about it for my new power supply.

 

As to John's request for a diagram, that will take me some time to produce and share, and I have a pretty busy day at work. In the interim, here are the basics:

 

On same power conditioner (20A 3 prong power cord into a single wall outlet):

microRendu (powered by HDPlex using 3 prong power cord, or iFi iPower two prong wallwart) (connected directly to router in another room via Blue Jeans 6a ethernet cable - 50ft)

Lampizator Big7 DAC with volume control (3 prong power cord to power conditioner) (microRendu USB input using hard adapter)

Line Magnetic 518IA amp (3 prong power cord to power conditioner)

(1) GR Research/Rythmik sealed sub (speaker level connection) (3 prong power cord into power conditioner)

 

On different power outlet, same house circuit as rest of system:

(1) GR Research/Rythmik sealed sub (speaker level connection) (3 prong power cord into wall)

 

On different house circuit (another room) - all connected via Blue Jeans 6a ethernet:

TPlink AC router (2 prong wallwart)

Centurylink DSL modem (2 prong wallwart)

MacMini as DLNA server using Minimserver (2 prong power cord, internal power supply)

[Elescher]

Furthermore, I've gone to considerable expense to outfit my whole system with high quality power cords featuring the Furutech FI-50 carbon fiber rhodium plated connectors, and their GTX® outlets. Now one of those plug/outlet connections is interrupted by a 50 cent Walmart cheater plug.

 

You can always either disconnect the ground wire on the power cable, or outlet.

[vortecjr]

Furthermore, I've gone to considerable expense to outfit my whole system with high quality power cords featuring the Furutech FI-50 carbon fiber rhodium plated connectors, and their GTX® outlets. Now one of those plug/outlet connections is interrupted by a 50 cent Walmart cheater plug.

 

You can always either disconnect the ground wire on the power cable, or outlet.

 

I would continue to look for the cause as well. Have you checked for continuity between the legs of the power cables in the system?

[JohnSwenson]

Well, kind of. Yeah, a cheater plug on the HDPlex worked to eliminate the noise. However, this has me using a cheater plug permanently, which is not ideal from my perspective. I'm curious why an older version of the same unit worked fine last weekend in my system, but the one I purchased did not. Furthermore, I've gone to considerable expense to outfit my whole system with high quality power cords featuring the Furutech FI-50 carbon fiber rhodium plated connectors, and their GTX® outlets. Now one of those plug/outlet connections is interrupted by a 50 cent Walmart cheater plug. That outlet and FI-50 connector are together worth more than the HDPlex unit itself. So, I'm not exactly satisfied to leave things in their current condition without at least trying to explore why the issue exists for one power supply but not another, and if anything can be done about it for my new power supply.

 

As to John's request for a diagram, that will take me some time to produce and share, and I have a pretty busy day at work. In the interim, here are the basics:

 

On same power conditioner (20A 3 prong power cord into a single wall outlet):

microRendu (powered by HDPlex using 3 prong power cord, or iFi iPower two prong wallwart) (connected directly to router in another room via Blue Jeans 6a ethernet cable - 50ft)

Lampizator Big7 DAC with volume control (3 prong power cord to power conditioner) (microRendu USB input using hard adapter)

Line Magnetic 518IA amp (3 prong power cord to power conditioner)

(1) GR Research/Rythmik sealed sub (speaker level connection) (3 prong power cord into power conditioner)

 

On different power outlet, same house circuit as rest of system:

(1) GR Research/Rythmik sealed sub (speaker level connection) (3 prong power cord into wall)

 

On different house circuit (another room) - all connected via Blue Jeans 6a ethernet:

TPlink AC router (2 prong wallwart)

Centurylink DSL modem (2 prong wallwart)

MacMini as DLNA server using Minimserver (2 prong power cord, internal power supply)

 

First we need to find out if the HDPLEXes have the negative output tied to the GND pin of the power plug. You can test this with your meter. See if both supplies are the same or different in this regard.

 

Next I want to see if we can track down the source of the ground current, it sounds like it is network related, I want to track down whether it is from the microRendu or some other digital equipment (other computer, router etc). A possible way to do this is to put extra work on the router and see if that makes any difference in the noise. For example try having another computer stream an online movie at the same time you are listening (assuming that streaming goes through the same router). If it is coming through the router (and its power supply) the noise should change.

 

Next is to try and change the supply load profile of the microRendu ie make it work harder. I'm not quite sure how to do that, what I want to do is have it do something like resampling or run some other compute intensive process at the same time, but I'm not sure how to do that with the existing interface to the microRendu.

 

What I am leaning towards right now is that new PS is somehow modulating its leakage current to the ground pin by the normal load variations of the microRendu, and the other supplies are not.

 

One way to test this is to power a different computer (not part of the audio chain) off the new PS, (something like a squeezebox, something that can be powered by the new PS, it doesn't have to have anything to do with audio, a smartphone powered off the PS would do fine), and connect a single wire from the negative output of the new PS to an audio system ground (the shell of an RCA jack is good). If it is leakage current through the PS you will make a ground loop with that wire and should hear it. If you do hear it, try it with one of the other supplies.

 

Note that all power supplies have leakage current, but if the assumption above is correct it sounds like the new PS is somehow changinging its leakage current with the fairly small load variations of the microRendu. An interesting cause of this can actually be a mains noise filter, certain designs cut down on noise between hot an neutral by shunting it to the third pin, increasing the leakage current on the ground.

 

John S.

[genjamon]

Thanks for these thoughts, John. Regarding the question of whether this is microRendu or some other digital equipment, I would refer you to my original post, and #4 in my list of experiments. With the ethernet cable disconnected from microRendu, I was hearing the noise, but it was at regular 1 second or less intervals. A subsequent poster suggested this was all packet noise, and the regular interval noise was the microRendu trying to ping the server without the ethernet cable connected. At any rate, the noise was there with no connection to any other computer, so I think by process of elimination this must mean it's the microRendu.

 

As for running your leakage current experiment, I'm not sure if I have a computer that would work for this. Would the WfS Recovery work? Or how about leaving the microRendu USB output disconnected from the audio system, powering it with the HDPlex, and running the wire from PS negative output to RCA shell of audio system? Would that suffice as a test?

 

First we need to find out if the HDPLEXes have the negative output tied to the GND pin of the power plug. You can test this with your meter. See if both supplies are the same or different in this regard.

 

Next I want to see if we can track down the source of the ground current, it sounds like it is network related, I want to track down whether it is from the microRendu or some other digital equipment (other computer, router etc). A possible way to do this is to put extra work on the router and see if that makes any difference in the noise. For example try having another computer stream an online movie at the same time you are listening (assuming that streaming goes through the same router). If it is coming through the router (and its power supply) the noise should change.

 

Next is to try and change the supply load profile of the microRendu ie make it work harder. I'm not quite sure how to do that, what I want to do is have it do something like resampling or run some other compute intensive process at the same time, but I'm not sure how to do that with the existing interface to the microRendu.

 

What I am leaning towards right now is that new PS is somehow modulating its leakage current to the ground pin by the normal load variations of the microRendu, and the other supplies are not.

 

One way to test this is to power a different computer (not part of the audio chain) off the new PS, (something like a squeezebox, something that can be powered by the new PS, it doesn't have to have anything to do with audio, a smartphone powered off the PS would do fine), and connect a single wire from the negative output of the new PS to an audio system ground (the shell of an RCA jack is good). If it is leakage current through the PS you will make a ground loop with that wire and should hear it. If you do hear it, try it with one of the other supplies.

 

Note that all power supplies have leakage current, but if the assumption above is correct it sounds like the new PS is somehow changinging its leakage current with the fairly small load variations of the microRendu. An interesting cause of this can actually be a mains noise filter, certain designs cut down on noise between hot an neutral by shunting it to the third pin, increasing the leakage current on the ground.

 

John S.

[vortecjr]

Thanks for these thoughts, John. Regarding the question of whether this is microRendu or some other digital equipment, I would refer you to my original post, and #4 in my list of experiments. With the ethernet cable disconnected from microRendu, I was hearing the noise, but it was at regular 1 second or less intervals. A subsequent poster suggested this was all packet noise, and the regular interval noise was the microRendu trying to ping the server without the ethernet cable connected. At any rate, the noise was there with no connection to any other computer, so I think by process of elimination this must mean it's the microRendu.

 

As for running your leakage current experiment, I'm not sure if I have a computer that would work for this. Would the WfS Recovery work? Or how about leaving the microRendu USB output disconnected from the audio system, powering it with the HDPlex, and running the wire from PS negative output to RCA shell of audio system? Would that suffice as a test?

All things the same and the fact the iFi iPower and older HD Plex linear PS do not produce the issue makes me uneasy about your HD Plex linear PS. I would return that PS to Larry and let him sort it out.

[jtrelin]

The issue is temperature. If the case gets too hot to hold a finger on it, it is TOO hot. If you can hold your finger on it, you are fine, leave it the way it is.

 

If it is too hot you have a couple options:

1) go with a lower voltage

2) get more air flow around it. The best passive air flow is to orient the microRendu vertically on its side, that way air flows up both sides, this helps a LOT in cooling it off.

 

John S.

 

Thank you, John. I'm using the 9v iPower that came with the microRendu, I had it resting on thin foam and it felt as if it was running a little hot. I put it in one of those credit card holders from Amazon and now it is barely warm. I'd say it ran on the hot side for about a month of above moderate use. Any chance damage could have occurred?

[JohnSwenson]

Thank you, John. I'm using the 9v iPower that came with the microRendu, I had it resting on thin foam and it felt as if it was running a little hot. I put it in one of those credit card holders from Amazon and now it is barely warm. I'd say it ran on the hot side for about a month of above moderate use. Any chance damage could have occurred?

 

No that will not have caused any problems. It has to run REALLY REALLY hot for a long time to cause an issue.

 

John S.

[jtrelin]

Thank you.

[PaulF]

Can someone recommend a good linear power supply for the micro? I know there are many options - which is why I'm asking. What's the best voltage to go with for performance (no cooling issues)?

 

I've been enjoying the heck out of the thing for a few weeks now with the stock switching supply - time to max it out.

 

Cost is not too much of an object.

[vortecjr]

Can someone recommend a good linear power supply for the micro? I know there are many options - which is why I'm asking. What's the best voltage to go with for performance (no cooling issues)?

 

I've been enjoying the heck out of the thing for a few weeks now with the stock switching supply - time to max it out.

 

Cost is not too much of an object.

 

I think we make the best one:)

[PaulF]

I JUST found that product, actually, in the last few minutes.

 

While cost is not too much of an issue, I should have mentioned that SIZE is. 12" wide is hard for me to do as I have no rack shelves completely free! Then again, if it's the best, I should think a bit harder...

 

(Luckily the shelf spacing on my Mapleshade rack is adjustable.)

[PaulF]

Here's what my old pal Lavorgna had to say, incidentally:

 

"Let's talk power. I have the iFi power supply and Sonore's own Signature Series Linear Power Supply. For a very good sounding budget setup, the iFi supply works wonders. If you want the microRendu to sound exceptionally good, get the Sonore supply. It's really that simple. All of the positive sonic traits the microRendu imparts on a system, and let's please keep in mind we're talking about a system, are ramped up and improved upon in a very obvious way with the more expensive Sonore power supply. I kinda wish it wasn't so, but it is."

 

[PaulF]

Hey - you guys really ought to package the mRendu right along with your LPS, in the same box - that would be greatly convenient.

[TubeLover]

Would something like this fill the bill of providing really pure power, similarly, but much less expensively than the previously recommended HP units.

 

10A 30V DC Power Supply Adjustable Dual Digital Variable Precision Lab Grade | eBay

 

Or this?

 

https://www.amazon.com/Dr-Meter%C2%AE-HY3005M-S-Regulated-Switching-Alligator/dp/B00UJG2TLS/ref=zg_bs_318022011_6

 

JC

[vortecjr]

Would something like this fill the bill of providing really pure power, similarly, but much less expensively than the previously recommended HP units.

 

10A 30V DC Power Supply Adjustable Dual Digital Variable Precision Lab Grade | eBay

 

Or this?

 

https://www.amazon.com/Dr-Meter%C2%AE-HY3005M-S-Regulated-Switching-Alligator/dp/B00UJG2TLS/ref=zg_bs_318022011_6

 

JC

 

I don't have any direct feedback on these, but they should work. Make sure to set the voltage and amperage to within our specification. The center pin is positive on our connector.

[jtrelin]

Has anyone had the chance to compare the Sonore Signature PSU and the JS2 with the microRendu? I'm sure they're both superb, just curious.

[theppd]

Has anyone had the chance to compare the Sonore Signature PSU and the JS2 with the microRendu? I'm sure they're both superb, just curious.

 

I'm looking for that comparison also

[drabbis]

i really wish the sonore psu offered two outputs like the js2 for the cost

[stvc]

I got the sonore signature PSU today, 1st impression compare with cheap ifi PSU. Very clean background almost noise free.. less dynamic, smaller headroom. Will give it couple of day to burn it and see how it go.

[theppd]

I got the sonore signature PSU today, 1st impression compare with cheap ifi PSU. Very clean background almost noise free.. less dynamic, smaller headroom. Will give it couple of day to burn it and see how it go.

 

stvc, thanks for your feedback! Less dynamic, smaller headroom than with ifi PSU?

[stvc]

stvc, thanks for your feedback! Less dynamic, smaller headroom than with ifi PSU?

 

Nope, i refer to the Sonore signature PSU.

[André Gosselin]

Still confused about what you mean. Which one sounds better ?

[stvc]

Still confused about what you mean. Which one sounds better ?

 

sorry i mean the ifi PSU sound better for now.. i will let the sonore signature PSU to burn in for few days and see how they go.

[jtrelin]

Nope, i refer to the Sonore signature PSU.

 

just got the Sonore Signature PSU to run with the microRendu. Bought the fuse upgrade and the recommended power cord. I immediately heard improvements in depth of sound over the iFi PSU.

 

But overall have been disappointed so far. Maybe it needs to burn in, but despite the increased resolution, added depth and some nice audio effects, I am finding it very uninvolving and harsh. I find myself listening to music less than with the iFi or the Aurender N100 I had previously. Where I thought the PSU would reduce some of the harshness and vocal distortion I heard with the iFi, it has made it worse. I am turning down the volume and watching more TV. Van Morrisons voice repeatedly crackles on high notes where it didn't before. The DSD of Elton Johns Tumbleweed Connection, which I had previously found to be an excellent recording and totally engaging, is now harsh and uninvolving.

 

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, or don't know what I'm doing, which is quite possible, but so far the microRendu and the Sonore PSU so far are a big disappointment.

 

My system: Audience power conditioner with a WireWorld Silver Eclipse 7 going into a CablePro Revelation power strip with all the bells and whistles, an Audioquest Vodka Ethernet cable between a sonic transporter Roon Server and the microRendu and a Curious USB cable connecting the microRendu and a Bricasti M1SE DAC. WireWorld Silver Eclipse RCAs between the M1 and an ATC CA2 preamp, and Nordoest Fry 2 XLR interconnects between the preamp and ATC powered studio 20s II. The DAC power cord is a WireWorld silver eclipse 7 and is connected directly to the power conditioner. I'm using AudioArt Classic 1 power cords for the preamp and speakers. All components, including the sonicTransporter are connected to the CablePro power strip. I'm using a Synology 216se NAS as the source and it is connected to a different circuit.

 

any suggestions are appreciated. I'm tempted to upgrade the ca2 to a tube preamp, but I'm reticent to invest any more money in this.. It's a shame, but I am enjoying music less than when I had a Linn Majik DSM connected to Paradigm Studio 20s.