Power supplies and cables - observations, considerations & commentary

[asdf1000]

I recently added HDPlex 100W LPSU to my setup with mR. Its priced at $399 USD so not exactly half of mR but the performance is better than iFi in my setup using Roon+HQPlayer.

Not sure if you have it available in Australia.

I think mR performance keeps on getting better with a better LPSU.

Eventually I plan on upgrading it to a better PSU. Have not decided yet as I'm still waiting for Uptone Ultra Caps LPS-1.

 

They surprisingly offer free shipping to Australia and it's Fedex International Priority - just checked online. I've ready a lot that this comes highly recommended.

[asdf1000]

I'm in Aus and happily using Clay Geiseler's power supply for my Rendu. But I can't say I've compared it with other models.

 

I will try with the LPS1 when it comes out.

 

 

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The Geiseler sounds like great value for money, especially with the free shipping within Aus too, it's about USD220 for anyone playing at home lol.

[audiocrazy]

I'm running mR with HDPlex set at 9VDC since last week.

I'm noticed the SQ improved especially in bass and midbass region but the highs seems rolled off (less air) compared to iFi. The bass seems to sound better (well defined) with HDPlex set to 9VDC.

 

To experiment I set HDPlex to 7VDC ( minimum required by mR) and suddenly the Highs are clear and transparent and better than iFi but the bass is not as well defined when set to 9VDC.

 

BTW mR get only luke warn with either 9V or 7V. So heat is not a concern at all.

 

Checking if anybody has experienced that and want to know what's the sweet spot Voltage settings on HDPlex that gives the best sound?

[hifi_swlon]

Having started feeling a bit 'experimental' and that there's still something lacking in my system, I ordered a Paul Hynes SR3 today.

 

I was going to wait for the LPS-1 but figure I can get the SR3 sooner, and Paul does offer a return if it's not doing what you expect of it.

 

Really not not sure I can convince myself it will be a significant improvement but this is one way to find out with my own ears.

 

I would never have heard of him other than forums (website a bit out of date) but after lengthy discussions with him over the past weeks I felt it was the way to go and despite not being cheap by any means (snip over £400 inc silver wiring and silver DC lead), it saves on customs etc from many other vendors. Paul is a hugely helpful guy too. It's going to be internally adjustable 5-10v so that makes it useful for possible repurposing later on.

 

The alternate plan was to try a Singxer SU-1 to avoid the Devialets USB input but that would be near impossible to return so figured this is the order to do it.

 

I'm generally happy to admit my mistakes and give honest feedback so will report back in a few weeks as there's a 15-20 day lead time sadly.

[Nikko1960]

I went down the SR3 route and have been using it with my uRendu for about a month now. I invited Flummoxe over for a listen a week or so ago (he has one on order) and we both agreed that it sounds pretty good. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

 

Nikko

[Topspin70]

Anyone can comment on the Sbooster BOTW 6V? How does it compare with the HDPlex which I already got but might moved to power my headphone amp.

[hifi_swlon]

I went down the SR3 route and have been using it with my uRendu for about a month now. I invited Flummoxe over for a listen a week or so ago (he has one on order) and we both agreed that it sounds pretty good. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

 

Nikko

 

Thanks Nikko.

 

Your comment of 'utterly transformational' pretty much sealed the deal so I'm expecting a lot! If not I'll be round your place!

[Nikko1960]

Thanks Nikko.

 

Your comment of 'utterly transformational' pretty much sealed the deal so I'm expecting a lot! If not I'll be round your place!

 

YMMV! All of these changes will be system dependent and I can only tell you how it improved mine. But Flummoxe has heard it too so you could reach out to him directly and ask his opinion. He also has one coming in mid-October.

 

Nikko

[Dev]

Anybody knows the lead time on Paul Hynes SR3 shipped to US ?

[hifi_swlon]

YMMV! All of these changes will be system dependent and I can only tell you how it improved mine. But Flummoxe has heard it too so you could reach out to him directly and ask his opinion. He also has one coming in mid-October.

 

Nikko

 

Don't worry Nikko I was only joking!

 

Actually I'm struggling to imagine it having a huge impact. I can't really follow the logic with digital stuff. With analogue it makes perfect sense to have better power - but with async digital it's really hard to see what's going to bring improvements. I've read lots of hypothesese about the mechanisms involved (better, more stable clocks etc) but I just can't rationalise it in my mind.

 

I'd actually like to be a bit more scientific about it and see some hard data showing improvements - these measurements would have been made by the designers as part of the development process so why not share. Show data for a few PSs showing improved clocking or whatever (hello Mutec). Since I don't have the ability to do any of that, let's see what it brings using the only available tools I have at my disposal!

 

@Dev, Paul is quoting 15-20 days to ship from firm order placement (ie paid for) and I don't think it makes a difference where it's shipping to. Probably best asking him though - he seems like a straight up chap and he can answer any questions too.

[barrows]

actually, in my experience, digital products are more sensitive to power implementation than analog ones.

[hifi_swlon]

actually, in my experience, digital products are more sensitive to power implementation than analog ones.

 

Could you expand?

[barrows]

Could you expand?

 

Not sure what you are looking for, I thought the statement was entirely complete in meaning.

[lxgreen]

Yeah, I'm going for the paul hyne as well. The Uptone LPS is way overdue and obviously they are having problems with testing. May not be out for months if ever at this rate.

 

 

UOTE=hifi_swlon;583109]Having started feeling a bit 'experimental' and that there's still something lacking in my system, I ordered a Paul Hynes SR3 today.

 

I was going to wait for the LPS-1 but figure I can get the SR3 sooner, and Paul does offer a return if it's not doing what you expect of it.

 

Really not not sure I can convince myself it will be a significant improvement but this is one way to find out with my own ears.

 

I would never have heard of him other than forums (website a bit out of date) but after lengthy discussions with him over the past weeks I felt it was the way to go and despite not being cheap by any means (snip over £400 inc silver wiring and silver DC lead), it saves on customs etc from many other vendors. Paul is a hugely helpful guy too. It's going to be internally adjustable 5-10v so that makes it useful for possible repurposing later on.

 

The alternate plan was to try a Singxer SU-1 to avoid the Devialets USB input but that would be near impossible to return so figured this is the order to do it.

 

I'm generally happy to admit my mistakes and give honest feedback so will report back in a few weeks as there's a 15-20 day lead time sadly.

[Superdad]

Yeah, I'm going for the paul hyne as well. The Uptone LPS is way overdue and obviously they are having problems with testing. May not be out for months if ever at this rate.

 

Actually, the production boards will arrive this coming week and we will begin shipments in less that 3 weeks. My goal for tomorrow and this weekend is to finish up the web info/order page to start accepting orders on Tuesday. I know this has taken a long time, and appreciate everyone's patience and frustration, but we promise it will have been worth the wait.

 

--Alex C.

[jjraffin]

[emoji122]

 

 

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[Confused]

hifi_swlon (or anyone else who has knowledge in this area) - I am interested that you opted for the 'silver DC lead' for your Paul Hynes SR3. I am not an expert in this area, but I did look at the extra cost for this and kind of thought 'what's wrong with copper'. I am just interested in the rationale here.

[hifi_swlon]

hifi_swlon (or anyone else who has knowledge in this area) - I am interested that you opted for the 'silver DC lead' for your Paul Hynes SR3. I am not an expert in this area, but I did look at the extra cost for this and kind of thought 'what's wrong with copper'. I am just interested in the rationale here.

 

Mmmmm, rationale you say!

 

There was about as much rationale as with any of my recent experiments. I read a couple of bits here and there online in the quest to understand what the supposed mechanism for improvement might be, pretty much failed, so just went with Pauls suggestion that it was worthwhile. Silver internal wiring too (about £10).

 

Paul can do a Silver mains lead too. I held off on that as its a step too far for me (I can convince myself that something after the regulation might be worthwhile, but not something attached to the end of the houses standard ring main wiring). Anyway he's going to send me one on a try or return basis when he makes his next batch - he said 'just see for yourself'.

 

So many people that are involved in the design of all this audio technology are happy to say X, Y, and Z make dramatic improvements, but very few explain it and back it up with data. That leaves us to try for ourselves which is open to error, bias, etc. I am happy to admit I've managed to convince myself new loaner speaker cables were sublime, only to see the next day that I couldn't tell them apart from my original cables when I had someone else wire them up and not tell me which was which. That's not conclusive obviously but it definitely means it's not as easy to tell as we think. As were bombarded with info about what improves audio but with little hard data, it's hard to know what to trust. The scientist in me always struggles with this. What I do know is that in 20 odd years involved with professional imaging, no one ever felt the need to use an LPS on a digital display, or anything beyond compliant cabling, and the images (that can easily be cross referred against one another - unlike audio - as we can look at both at once) never lacked anything.

 

But still, I'm inquisitive, so have been suckered in.

[hifi_swlon]

Not sure what you are looking for, I thought the statement was entirely complete in meaning.

 

Just looking for a little more insight. While the statement was entirely clear in meaning, it didn't do much to further my understanding of why... Very few solid explanations out there in the wild as to why only digital audio equipment seems to benefit from upgraded linear power supplies, while the rest of the worlds digital equipment doesn't seem to.

 

What's the aim of the power supply design? How do you measure their effectiveness? I just can't get my head round it, and struggle to shake the feeling that we (consumers) might be deluding ourselves....

[barrows]

Just looking for a little more insight. While the statement was entirely clear in meaning, it didn't do much to further my understanding of why... Very few solid explanations out there in the wild as to why only digital audio equipment seems to benefit from upgraded linear power supplies, while the rest of the worlds digital equipment doesn't seem to.

 

What's the aim of the power supply design? How do you measure their effectiveness? I just can't get my head round it, and struggle to shake the feeling that we (consumers) might be deluding ourselves....

 

 

Well, for one thing, clocks require a very low noise power supply to produce a low phase noise output. Additionally, a low impedance supply/high speed power supply will help stop high frequency digital noise from propagating back through the supply and contaminating the analog side of things. These are just two examples. If you do not think power supplies matter in the "rest of the world" you might want to take a look at the medical instrumentation field, or other very high precision scientific measuring instruments. For these, power supplies also matter a lot in order to achieve high precision results. It is not only the audio world where these things matter. Now your washing machine is probably not going to get your clothes any cleaner if you upgraded its supply...

[hifi_swlon]

Well, for one thing, clocks require a very low noise power supply to produce a low phase noise output. Additionally, a low impedance supply/high speed power supply will help stop high frequency digital noise from propagating back through the supply and contaminating the analog side of things. These are just two examples. If you do not think power supplies matter in the "rest of the world" you might want to take a look at the medical instrumentation field, or other very high precision scientific measuring instruments. For these, power supplies also matter a lot in order to achieve high precision results. It is not only the audio world where these things matter. Now your washing machine is probably not going to get your clothes any cleaner if you upgraded its supply...

 

That last bit made me laugh! That said I bet someone here's tried it.

 

I do try and educate myself a bit on these things before posting - not medical but I looked at CERN - I think we can agree they have sensitive kit. They actually publish quite a bit about linear power supplies and some of the issues discussed about earthing and noise pollution etc. In fact if seems it's pretty tightly controlled on what can be used. But they only reference analogue measurement equipment. It seems at CERN you can use a normal power supply on digital kit. I know that's a bit tongue in cheek and was a nights reading so not conclusive. But the emphasis was clearly on sensors and analogue domain.

 

Now on a DAC the clock affects the analogue output, I can see that. But from what I understand, with async transmission the DACs clock is the master and it's going to buffer the incoming data anyway, so why is a super-stable clock in the streamer needed? As long as the bits aren't late they should be good to go. That's why I find it so hard to rationalise. Noise pollution I can grasp - but my house (and London) is full of it and I don't have isolated hifi supply so it would be hard for me to experiment here. So I guess that falls into the 'my system isn't resolving enough to hear it' zone?

 

Its all truly fascinating but I really wish some peer reviewed scientific papers would cover the whole audio pathway from digital data to DAC output, and explain all the processes in detail so we're not left hunting around for all the pieces to the puzzle - with the amount of genuine voodoo out there it's really tricky to gauge what's fact.

 

I cant say for sure its not all fact as I can't disprove it, but a lot of it seems illogical to a mind like mine. And it's almost impossible to find out what people measure to design and test these theories and make these products.

[vortecjr]

That last bit made me laugh! That said I bet someone here's tried it.

 

I do try and educate myself a bit on these things before posting - not medical but I looked at CERN - I think we can agree they have sensitive kit. They actually publish quite a bit about linear power supplies and some of the issues discussed about earthing and noise pollution etc. In fact if seems it's pretty tightly controlled on what can be used. But they only reference analogue measurement equipment. It seems at CERN you can use a normal power supply on digital kit. I know that's a bit tongue in cheek and was a nights reading so not conclusive. But the emphasis was clearly on sensors and analogue domain.

 

Now on a DAC the clock affects the analogue output, I can see that. But from what I understand, with async transmission the DACs clock is the master and it's going to buffer the incoming data anyway, so why is a super-stable clock in the streamer needed? As long as the bits aren't late they should be good to go. That's why I find it so hard to rationalise. Noise pollution I can grasp - but my house (and London) is full of it and I don't have isolated hifi supply so it would be hard for me to experiment here. So I guess that falls into the 'my system isn't resolving enough to hear it' zone?

 

Its all truly fascinating but I really wish some peer reviewed scientific papers would cover the whole audio pathway from digital data to DAC output, and explain all the processes in detail so we're not left hunting around for all the pieces to the puzzle - with the amount of genuine voodoo out there it's really tricky to gauge what's fact.

 

I cant say for sure its not all fact as I can't disprove it, but a lot of it seems illogical to a mind like mine. And it's almost impossible to find out what people measure to design and test these theories and make these products.

 

We sorta got here by being irrational and illogical, but no voodoo:) The Sonicorbiter SE is our more traditional approach if that is what you are into. Anyway, due tell us how your Paul Hynes power supply purchase works out for you.

[Mike Gillespie]

lxgreen,

 

Just curious if you did any bg research on Paul Hynes... A friend sent him $5,000 over 3 years ago and Hynes never delivered. Just sent him one sorry excuse after the next. I would be very, very wary of any business dealings with Paul Hynes and would absolutely look elsewhere for a power supply or any other product.

 

I believe the audiocircle thread

 

Production Update

 

is more than sufficient to voice problems from multiple customers.

[carsten s chr]

Mike - I totally agree to your statement about Paul Hynes!...

 

And yes - been there, done that!...

 

Newer again, will I place an order by Paul Hynes - the guy of endelses excusses!...

 

Next time, I'll buy the Uptone Power Supply's!...

[hifi_swlon]

Mike - I totally agree to your statement about Paul Hynes!...

 

And yes - been there, done that!...

 

Newer again, will I place an order by Paul Hynes - the guy of endelses excusses!...

 

Next time, I'll buy the Uptone Power Supply's!...

 

Sorry to those that had issues. Maybe things have got straightened out since?

 

Id never seen all that history but bought based on other users feedback (including their on time deliveries).

 

I had about 15 email exchanges with Paul - all relatively promptly replied. OK I haven't heard anything since I paid for the SR3, but I know two others to have received them.

Anyway, let's see if I've got one in my hands in the 20 days quoted.

 

I do think he'd be better off building in bulk for 'standard' popular supplies like SR3 etc as they really don't need to be built to order, and in this day and age people like to pay and get their shipping notifications the next day.

 

As as for the LPS-1 it's not released yet and unproven. Also, for UK based customers, it means an inevitable hold up at customs for up to several weeks and possible extra charges, plus no option to return (reclaiming those costs) if you don't like it.