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Is the MicroRendu right for me? Replacing a noisy PC!


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OK so you are saying that a setup with uRendu and a Qnap NAS will work and can be controlled via smartphone?... Just to be clear can this work in a offline situation as well? Is it possible to connect uRendu and Qnap and then access via a created Hotspot or a direct WiFi connection between phone and NAS? PRETTY PLEASE SAY YES :)

I suspect that the Qnap can be configured as a router and dhcp server, but I don't believe that is a supported configuration. And yes, at least in theory you shouldn't need an internet connection, but it sure makes software updates easier.

 

FYI - My Qnap has been used as a virtual switch, pxe boot server, ISCSI server and dhcp server with a wireless connection to a router all simultaneously. This is all supported with QTS 4.3.

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

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I have 2 LAN's on my NAS and I have enabled DHCP server on LAN1. I have also checked that my NAS successfully provides an IP address to my uRendu *

The challenges you have with not having connection to WAN are:

- No online streaming (e.g. Tidal)

- Extended library information (e.g. Roon)

- Software upgrades

 

I am working with a similar stationary solution and these bad boys are on their way:

STRONG-Connected - WLAN Connection Kit Duo

They are using mesh technology when >3 units in use.

The Transmitter will be connected to my router and the Receiver will be connected to a switch, serving as an Ethernet adapter.

It should work with your iDevice (e.g. iPad control point running Roon Remote)

My NAS is running my library, Roon Server and BubbleUPnP server.

 

* This is my portable solution.

 

Sorry if some of this is OT in this thread.

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I suspect that the Qnap can be configured as a router and dhcp server, but I don't believe that is a supported configuration. And yes, at least in theory you shouldn't need an internet connection, but it sure makes software updates easier.

 

FYI - My Qnap has been used as a virtual switch, pxe boot server, ISCSI server and dhcp server with a wireless connection to a router all simultaneously. This is all supported with QTS 4.3.

Thanks, this sounds encouraging... Now I need to find a simple way to order one from Germany...

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Thanks, this sounds encouraging... Now I need to find a simple way to order one from Germany...

 

Order it directly from Sonore.us. It is the cheapest way to get one. Getting one through a dealer will be more expensive (assuming there are dealers). Shipping will take 7 days. I ordered mine directly and I live in the EU.

Synology DS214+ with MinimServer --> Ethernet --> Sonore mRendu / SOtM SMS-200 --> Chord Hugo --> Chord interconnects --> Naim NAP 200--> Chord speaker cable --> Focal Aria 948

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  • 1 month later...

Revisiting this as I am getting a switch.

 

Can I make do with an old D Link Fast Ethernet 100 Mbps switch I have or do I need a Gigabit switch?

 

Based on your comments, even for 1080p video uncompressed, a Gigabit switch is overkill or will there be quality improvements using one over a 100 Mbps switch?

 

Thanks

The bandwith is ample for sound (16/44.1 is 1.14Mbps - you're lucky if you hit 10Mbps with hi-res). If you run 1080p video in uncompressed mode, there is a slight chance you'll go over 100Mbps. But standard netflix and apple TV stay well under 20Mbps.
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Revisiting this as I am getting a switch.

 

Can I make do with an old D Link Fast Ethernet 100 Mbps switch I have or do I need a Gigabit switch?

 

Based on your comments, even for 1080p video uncompressed, a Gigabit switch is overkill or will there be quality improvements using one over a 100 Mbps switch?

 

Thanks

 

Your concern should be the total bandwith of all traffic going through the switch. If you stream music only, the 100Mbps switch is fine. If you would also do other things simultaniously over that same switch, you'll be using more bandwith.

 

There is no quality benefits. The Gigabit switch is just more future proof.

Synology DS214+ with MinimServer --> Ethernet --> Sonore mRendu / SOtM SMS-200 --> Chord Hugo --> Chord interconnects --> Naim NAP 200--> Chord speaker cable --> Focal Aria 948

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Thanks Pepsican

 

OK get the drift.

 

I just made the change today. So if my router does Gigabit wired LAN and has 4 spare ports which are enough for me really, there is no point adding a 100Mbps switch correct? Unless a direct connection to the router will mean noise from it going through?

 

I only have generic CAT 5 ethernet cables at home so I guess I need to replace these with CAT 6 at the very least. What do you use and what do you recommend at a non wallet busting level?

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From my Qnap TS-251+ NAS to the microRendu there are two Gigabit switches, about 70 feet of CAT 5 in the walls, and 5 feet of CAT 5e. After DAC burn-in I will try moving the NAS within a few feet of the mR but I am not expecting to hear any difference. Anybody been through these extremes care to comment ?

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  • 1 year later...
On 5/1/2016 at 5:03 PM, JohnSwenson said:

This would consist of a laptop that has been configured as a DHCP server (exactly how to do this varies from OS to OS), the laptop would store the music on its hard disk. You would have something like JRiver that can be the server and control. An Ethernet cable goes from the laptop to the microRendu. The laptop stores the music files AND serves as the control (where you select what music to play etc). This does not require a router or internet connection.

 

This sounds like the PERFECT way for me to use a microRendu. I have a laptop (Windows 10) with all of my music files stored on it (internal SSD) and use JRiver. My router is in another room and would prefer not to use it. Can you please expand on this process? Many thanks.

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On 2016-07-10 at 11:12 AM, d_elm said:

From my Qnap TS-251+ NAS to the microRendu there are two Gigabit switches, about 70 feet of CAT 5 in the walls, and 5 feet of CAT 5e. After DAC burn-in I will try moving the NAS within a few feet of the mR but I am not expecting to hear any difference. Anybody been through these extremes care to comment ?

Have you tried connecting to the microrendu wirelessly? I would not want my TS-451+ anywhere near the listening room. That thing never shuts up!

Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. 

Crown XLi 1500 powering  AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers

Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. 

 

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15 minutes ago, audiobomber said:

Have you tried connecting to the microrendu wirelessly? I would not want my TS-451+ anywhere near the listening room. That thing never shuts up!

Wireless is not recommended for the data flow except when it is the only way to provide a signal or if the equipment downstream from an AP is not good enough for wireless to matter.

 

I still have the same setup with the NAS some distance from the renderer.  Regardless of which renderer you use a significant increase in sound quality is obtained by placing a "special" switch close to the renderer.  This "special" switch for me is a SOtM modified Netgear FS105 v2, modified for linear regulators, capacitors, and external 12MHz clock.  Clock signal is provided by a sMS-200ultra renderer.

 

 Uptone is planning to produce a switch with a good clock and noise isolation which should be of interest to those that are not using SOtM gear with its external clocking capability.

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Hi, barrows from Sonore here.  I wanted to provide a couple of points RE the Rendu products and Ethernet audio streaming in general.

 

1.  The Rendu's do not support wireless streaming because we have found that although wireless streaming theoretically should be fully capable of delivering hi resolution audio, we have found that in practice it often is not.  As the Rendu products are designed to support both up to 768 PCM and DSD 512, we can only offer this level of performance reliably, via a wired Ethernet connection.  Additionally, a Wireless transceiver inside these units would defeat the ultra low noise design goals, and reduce audio performance.  BTW, dCS has come to the same conclusion regarding their (very expensive) Ethernet streaming solutions.

 

2.  There are some options to run Ethernet cables: my home is not wired for Ethernet, but I run my Sonore Signature Rendu SE in my living room where i have my audio system, and I keep my serving computer and router in my upstairs work room (it is highly advised to put all the commercial, noisy, computer gear in another room from the audio system, preferably on the opposite phase of the home's AC supply).  How do I do it?  Simple, I run an Ethernet cable through the wall to the outside of the home, and route it on the outside to the living room area, and then back through the wall.  This is the same approach used by Sat TV installers for getting the feed from he Sat dish to the inside of the home and is no big deal at all.  Additionally, other approaches exist: if you have basement you can often run an Ethernet cable through the floor to the basement by drilling a simple hole, or down through the basement and up into another room, etc...  Just because your home may not already be wired for Ethernet, consider being a little innovative and you can often find a workable solution.

 

I would also add to please feel free to ask any specific questions on the Sonore forum here at CA, we at Sonore are quite responsive to questions and will always to try and help people to understand the best approaches to Ethernet distributed audio for both best audio performance and convenience within one's system context. 

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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23 hours ago, barrows said:

1.  The Rendu's do not support wireless streaming because we have found that although wireless streaming theoretically should be fully capable of delivering hi resolution audio, we have found that in practice it often is not.  As the Rendu products are designed to support both up to 768 PCM and DSD 512, we can only offer this level of performance reliably, via a wired Ethernet connection.  Additionally, a Wireless transceiver inside these units would defeat the ultra low noise design goals, and reduce audio performance.  BTW, dCS has come to the same conclusion regarding their (very expensive) Ethernet streaming solutions.

I realize there is no wireless receiver in a microRendu, but all one needs to do for wireless operation is to connect the streamer via ethernet to a wi-fi receiver. My router broadcasts on 5GHz band to a TP-Link Archer C9 AC1900 extender, which is configured to receive only, connected by an ethernet cable to my streamer. I am under the impression that this type of connection can be superior to direct connection to a NAS or computer via USB cable due to implicit galvanic isolation. Is  that not correct?

 

I can play 2X DSD or 192kHz files with no trouble at all. That is all the resolution I need or intend to pay for. Frankly I am completely satisfied with 96/24. The much bigger issue is recording quality. I have 44/16 recordings that are excellent, and 192/24 that are rubbish.

Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. 

Crown XLi 1500 powering  AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers

Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. 

 

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@audiobomber, if using WiFi is working for you, then I would not suggest changing it.  We at Sonore do not believe in WiFi for the best possible audio performance, and we have had customers who experience all kind of problems (dropouts) when attempting to use WiFi.  Of course this is going to be Network dependent and related to traffic on the Network.

In terms of sound quality, WiFi is not as robust as wired Ethernet, and hence there will be more errors in the data transmission; the Network is error corrected of course, so all the data should get there, but there is one theory which suggests that the more data errors one has, and the more re-sends there are, the more sound quality could be degraded by the increased processor activity.  Additionally, a wireless receiver is going to be a commercial computer product, with a typical noisy SMPS, and noisy build quality, and I would prefer not having a component like that anywhere near the audio system.

Wired Ethernet is already galvanically isolated by the transformers incorporated at each end of any Ethernet connection, although transformers will have some capacitive coupling so the isolation is never perfect.

 

But again, if you are experiencing acceptable performance with your set up, I would see no need to change it.  If you are curious about best sound quality, you might like to just try a wired connection at some point to verify whether a wired connection would offer any advantages in your system.

 

I would emphasize here: there are a lot of variables in any Network distributed audio system, and what works well in one set up may not in another.  We at Sonore tend to be conservative in our approach, and in our recommendations, in order to make sure that customers will have a good experience, hence our recommendation against WiFi distributed audio.  (We also have many customers who insist on being able to reliably stream up to DSD 256 and even 512).

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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Makes sense, thanks for the explanation. I guess I'm lucky that wi-fi is working perfectly, because wired is impossible in this house.

 

I have put some effort into power supply isolation. I use a Monster HTS-2000, which has separate sections for analog and digital sources. All digital components are plugged into digital outlets. My preamp and turntable are plugged into the analog side. I use an iFi iPurifier on the digital side. Humble efforts compared to some here, but with noticeable results.

Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. 

Crown XLi 1500 powering  AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers

Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. 

 

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4 hours ago, hopkins said:

Some perspective on computer noise

 

https://archimago.blogspot.fr/2018/05/measurements-computer-usb-5v-power.html?

 

All the laptops tested were powered using their battery supply. 

 

 

Maybe noise is not the reason many prefer a rendu or sms to a computer, or use usb cleaning devices? JA found no noise difference with a Jitterbug but a sonic difference.

 

I have an iPurifier2, which should reduce noise with its active noise-cancelling technology, but my system sounds worse when I insert it between my renderer and dac. 

 

https://www.stereophile.com/content/audioquest-jitterbug-usb-noise-filter-measurements

Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. 

Crown XLi 1500 powering  AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers

Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. 

 

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I am convinced noise is the issue.  I can measure many noise sources in my system, and when I reduce the noise of these sources, the results are usually improved sound quality.  Simple as that...

SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 512-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical with Well Tempered Clock--DIY DSC-2 DAC with SC Pure Clock--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112 sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers.  ISOAcoustics Oreas footers.                                                       

                                                                                           SONORE computer audio

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On 4/30/2016 at 9:16 AM, sandston said:

 

The thorn in my audio side is the Audio PC.

 

 

i thought the gen5 was supposed to remedy that?

Maybe upgrade your gungnir to gen5 usb and save a lot?

 

Personally, if it were me, i would sell dac and opt for a streamer/dac like the LUMIN D2...many people here swear by upsampling to dsd and you can't do that with the schiit.

 

More and more streamer/dacs (network players) are coming out all the time, and I feel it is the way of the future, and that is the direction i would go.

 

The auralic altair is hard to beat at it's price...(it also has femto clocks and LPS...latest buzz words when shopping)  but i don't like apple, which is why i would go LUMIN.  I went cheap with marantz ND8006 to hold me off while waiting for a better network dac....

 

 

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