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Audirvana Plus 2.5.1 with PCM->DSD Conversion


Jud

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Hi all

 

thanks to a number of kind posters who gave me enough info to enable DOP I've been comparing no upsampling to pcm to dsd using 2.5.1.4.

 

Honestly on my setup I like the no upsampling sound. I find the sound on my MSB analogue DAC to be more airy without conversion to DSD.

 

interestingly enough, I think I prefer the non upsampled 2.5.1.4 vs. Version 2.5.

 

Regards

Barry

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Hi all

 

thanks to a number of kind posters who gave me enough info to enable DOP I've been comparing no upsampling to pcm to dsd using 2.5.1.4.

 

Honestly on my setup I like the no upsampling sound. I find the sound on my MSB analogue DAC to be more airy without conversion to DSD.

 

interestingly enough, I think I prefer the non upsampled 2.5.1.4 vs. Version 2.5.

 

Regards

Barry

 

I'm with you Barry - I'm also enjoying non-upsampled 2.5.1.4. My Concero DAC does a nice job of upsampling / filtering the data. I was previously very much liking the SQ of DSD but just couldn't deal with all the issues, which are well documented on this blog. Although I'm happy with the non-upsampled approach I expect Damien will succeed in making DSD a great option before long.

Tidal / Qobuz--> Roon--> Fios Gigabit--> Netgear Prosafe GS105 --> Supra 8-->EtherRegen --> Fiber--> opticalRendu / CI Audio LPS --> Curious Evolved Link --> Chord Qutest--> AQ Water --> Belles Aria Integrated--> AQ Robin Hood--> Kudos Super 20's

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Hello

 

I am new to the forum but been reading it for a while so thank you all for pitching-in which has helped me a lot.

 

First off, I think A+ is one of the best there is for the audio playback from a Mac. Also Damien's customer service is top notch since he always gets back to my email and has helped me with my issues very diligently.

 

This means your DAC takes time to settle on DoP mode. You can set a sample rate change additional latency of 1 or 2 second to fix this. (Option in the Audio System page of the preferences)

 

As for above, I have changed the setting as mentioned by Damien and I am still hearing a click sound at the beginning of the track when I start playing after a full stop. if I rewind back and play the song again, the sound is gone. Also if I play any song after, say in a playlist, the sound is not there. Just the first time when playing after a full stop.

 

Second comment is that I hear no differences when I change filters but that maybe my ears or my system. however, it would be good to know what each filter does to choose them more intelligently.

2 Channel: Mac mini with Audirvana + & A+ Remote -> Netgear AC170 -> microRendu -> Chord Mojo -> oppo HA-1 -> Arcam  P49 -> B&W 804 D3

5 Channel: Apple TV/Sony XBR-65A9G -> Rotel RSP-1098 -> oppo HA-1 (bypass) -> Arcam P49 -> B&W 804 D3 (L/R), Arcam P349 -> B&W 804 D3 (C), B&W 805 D3 (RR/LR)

 

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OK, I think this is the external HDD.

 

I am using a Samsung 1TB SSD (external enclosure) ...

 

I can't replicate this without Audirvana, but I am going to try running "disksomnia" (which touches the drive every 30 seconds) to see if that changes anything. Maybe the Samsung SSD is putting itself to sleep, even with that setting disabled in Mac OS.

 

After a lot of testing, I've concluded that this is the problem - the Samsung EVO 1TB SSD is "sleeping" on its own, even after very little pause between reads, and Mac OS X is not able to "wake up the drive" in a timely manner. I was finally able to replicate this without involving A+.

 

Disksomnia does the trick with this drive, touching a small file every 30 seconds, and keeps it eternally awake and without further issues.

 

Apparently, after some searching, I discovered that this a known issue with some lot numbers and there is a F/W update available for the drive. If only I had a Windows PC... oh, well.

"Play the volume as loud as you want - but don't touch my levels now. I got them set just the way I like 'em."

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Second comment is that I hear no differences when I change filters but that maybe my ears or my system. however, it would be good to know what each filter does to choose them more intelligently.

 

If you mean the DSD filters, their noise profiles are a bit different. If you don't hear a difference, your DAC probably handles them all equally well. Some DACs favour certain filters, which is why there is a choice. Just pick whatever sounds good.

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If you mean the DSD filters, their noise profiles are a bit different. If you don't hear a difference, your DAC probably handles them all equally well. Some DACs favour certain filters, which is why there is a choice. Just pick whatever sounds good.

 

Thank you for the feedback.

 

I use oppo HA-1 with a Mac mini.

 

Does anyone else use the same setup and see difference in SQ with filters?

 

I remember having issues with one of the filters (I think one of the B filters) that i got a noise and sound went dead about 30 sec into the song, but have not been able to replicate that.

 

By the way most of the testing I have done is with track from Tidal.

2 Channel: Mac mini with Audirvana + & A+ Remote -> Netgear AC170 -> microRendu -> Chord Mojo -> oppo HA-1 -> Arcam  P49 -> B&W 804 D3

5 Channel: Apple TV/Sony XBR-65A9G -> Rotel RSP-1098 -> oppo HA-1 (bypass) -> Arcam P49 -> B&W 804 D3 (L/R), Arcam P349 -> B&W 804 D3 (C), B&W 805 D3 (RR/LR)

 

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I have kept a Dyson comment about the filters... maybe you miss that, might help someone...

 

Type A filters: they sound fine nothing really to mention, a kind of "all-round". I can't really tell much differences between the versions (maybe A0 and A4 the best?).

 

Type B filters: they are really very organic, full of body and rounded (attacks are a bit slow). Version 0 sounds the best for me, the other versions are missing a bit of depth (B2 being the best after B0).

 

Type C filter: keeps the full body and depth of the B0 filter and adds more attack (more sparkling).

 

mansr... are you with him with his description of your filters all around ??

 

with my DAC, i like the C one... didn't test that much.

 

If You Got Ears, You Gotta ListenCaptain Beefheart

 

MacMini 2018, 4xi3 3.6GHz, SSD, 20Gb, macOS Sonoma > Audirvana Origin >

Wyred DAC2 DSD Special Edition > Proceed AMP2 > Focal Cobalt 826 Signature Series >

Audirvana Remote > iPhone 13

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Thank you for the feedback.

 

I use oppo HA-1 with a Mac mini.

 

Does anyone else use the same setup and see difference in SQ with filters?

 

I remember having issues with one of the filters (I think one of the B filters) that i got a noise and sound went dead about 30 sec into the song, but have not been able to replicate that.

 

By the way most of the testing I have done is with track from Tidal.

 

The HA-1 has an ESS Sabre DAC chip. These handle DSD through a digital low-pass filter which makes them insensitive to the differences between DSD modulator filters.

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The HA-1 has an ESS Sabre DAC chip. These handle DSD through a digital low-pass filter which makes them insensitive to the differences between DSD modulator filters.

 

Ah...that might explain why the filters seem to have little beneficial effect with my Concero HD, which uses the ESS Sabre ES9018-2M. Good to know - thanks for sharing.

Tidal / Qobuz--> Roon--> Fios Gigabit--> Netgear Prosafe GS105 --> Supra 8-->EtherRegen --> Fiber--> opticalRendu / CI Audio LPS --> Curious Evolved Link --> Chord Qutest--> AQ Water --> Belles Aria Integrated--> AQ Robin Hood--> Kudos Super 20's

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The HA-1 has an ESS Sabre DAC chip. These handle DSD through a digital low-pass filter which makes them insensitive to the differences between DSD modulator filters.

 

Thanks a lot for the feedback.

 

last night I must have listened to the same song like 10 times using my PM-1. I was changing the filters each time and I really could not hear any differences. I finally concluded that I am probably deaf.

2 Channel: Mac mini with Audirvana + & A+ Remote -> Netgear AC170 -> microRendu -> Chord Mojo -> oppo HA-1 -> Arcam  P49 -> B&W 804 D3

5 Channel: Apple TV/Sony XBR-65A9G -> Rotel RSP-1098 -> oppo HA-1 (bypass) -> Arcam P49 -> B&W 804 D3 (L/R), Arcam P349 -> B&W 804 D3 (C), B&W 805 D3 (RR/LR)

 

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I finally concluded that I am probably deaf.

 

Look on the bright side: At least you don't have to spend a lot on your audio system. :)

 

--David

Listening Room: Mac mini (Roon Core) > iMac (HQP) > exaSound PlayPoint (as NAA) > exaSound e32 > W4S STP-SE > Benchmark AHB2 > Wilson Sophia Series 2 (Details)

Office: Mac Pro >  AudioQuest DragonFly Red > JBL LSR305

Mobile: iPhone 6S > AudioQuest DragonFly Black > JH Audio JH5

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Thanks a lot for the feedback.

 

last night I must have listened to the same song like 10 times using my PM-1. I was changing the filters each time and I really could not hear any differences. I finally concluded that I am probably deaf.

 

No mate. You just noticed that the king isn't wearing any clothes. The filters are created for pure tinkerology - and there's a great demand for that.

Tidal / Qobuz--> Roon--> Fios Gigabit--> Netgear Prosafe GS105 --> Supra 8-->EtherRegen --> Fiber--> opticalRendu / CI Audio LPS --> Curious Evolved Link --> Chord Qutest--> AQ Water --> Belles Aria Integrated--> AQ Robin Hood--> Kudos Super 20's

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No mate. You just noticed that the king isn't wearing any clothes. The filters are created for pure tinkerology - and there's a great demand for that.

The filters are mathematically different, and with some DACs the differences are quite clear. If you don't hear it, your DAC probably isn't sensitive the difference, and you don't need to care.

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Shouldn't be better to have an option to select "No Filter" in the DSD options ?

or it doesn't change the sound to have two filters fighting together...

If You Got Ears, You Gotta ListenCaptain Beefheart

 

MacMini 2018, 4xi3 3.6GHz, SSD, 20Gb, macOS Sonoma > Audirvana Origin >

Wyred DAC2 DSD Special Edition > Proceed AMP2 > Focal Cobalt 826 Signature Series >

Audirvana Remote > iPhone 13

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Shouldn't be better to have an option to select "No Filter" in the DSD options ?

or it doesn't change the sound to have two filters fighting together...

 

Just don't upsample, or don't upsample to DSD. Otherwise you need filtering.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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The filters are mathematically different, and with some DACs the differences are quite clear. If you don't hear it, your DAC probably isn't sensitive the difference, and you don't need to care.

 

Ah, how's it feel to be on the other side? :)

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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Upsample to DSD remove all my troubles with changing Sample Rates with A+... so i like it :-)

 

it was just a question, since i have the Sabre DAC Chip too as mansr says it applies it's own low pass filter...

If You Got Ears, You Gotta ListenCaptain Beefheart

 

MacMini 2018, 4xi3 3.6GHz, SSD, 20Gb, macOS Sonoma > Audirvana Origin >

Wyred DAC2 DSD Special Edition > Proceed AMP2 > Focal Cobalt 826 Signature Series >

Audirvana Remote > iPhone 13

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Upsample to DSD remove all my troubles with changing Sample Rates with A+... so i like it :-)

 

it was just a question, since i have the Sabre DAC Chip too as mansr says it applies it's own low pass filter...

 

Yep, so just choose A0, which I believe is lightest on resources.

 

ESS takes DSD input and upsamples it to 40+ MHz, I believe, then employs it's own filtering as mansr said.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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The filters are mathematically different, and with some DACs the differences are quite clear. If you don't hear it, your DAC probably isn't sensitive the difference, and you don't need to care.
I do hear a difference (similar to what "Dyson" outlined about the A, B and C filters). It would be really helpful if you could provide some short notes on the differences/characteristics of the filters as a kind of general guidance.

For instance on my DAC filter "C" seems to emphasize deep attacks (bold drums and punchy deep basses etc.) ... and "C" generally seems to be nice for Rock/Pop and Electronic music. But at the same time I feel "C" somehow sounds slighty compressed ...

On the other hand I think it's a bit to early to draw final conclusions. Although A+ runs trouble-free on my computer it requires a lot of processor power when upsamling to DSD (less when you disable A+'s own Direct Mode) and I feel some optimization regarding ressources is required. In comparision HQPlayer sounds slightly more relaxed and slightly more "open" on my system when upsampling to DSD. A+ 2.5.1.4 is pretty close ... but not quite there, yet ... IMHO.

Anyway... a short summery of the different filters would be much appreciated...

____________________________________________________

Mac Mini, HQPlayer | iFi Zenstream | Intona 7055-B | Singxer SDA-6 pro | Vincent SV237 | Buchardt S400 | SPL Phonitor One | Beyer DT1990pro | Avantone Planar II
Desktop: Audirvana Origin | Intona 7054 | SMSL M500MKII | NAD C 316BEE | Aperion Novus B5 Bookshelf | Lehmann Rhinelander | Beyer DT700proX

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Damien,

Version 2.5.1.6 tested with El Captain sounded better than 2.5.1.4/1.5, is stabile, with faster sync and no issues with cover arts, so I think you can launch it as 2.5.2.

Thank you so much for let me test several versions, take so much time with my crash logs / debugs info and trust in my reviews, but with so little time I can't tell you that it sounds so good as the beta 2.5.0.11 !!!

Later I will test only its SQ with my dedicated SDXC card, Mavericks and RAMDisk.

Keep your great work and customer support.

Bob

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Version 2.5.1.6 tested with El Captain sounded better than 2.5.1.4/1.5,

 

+1

Hackintosh I7 16GB Ram, Roon, HQPlayer, Drobo 8 TB NAS, Raspberry Pi 3 NAA, Gustard X20 ES 9018 Xmos, Audio GD C39 Preamp, The First ONE DIY Amp, Monitor Audio GS20 Speakers, Monitor Audio RSW12 Subwoofer, PI Audio MagikBuss filter.

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+1

 

Where can you get 2.5.1.6 ?

Tidal / Qobuz--> Roon--> Fios Gigabit--> Netgear Prosafe GS105 --> Supra 8-->EtherRegen --> Fiber--> opticalRendu / CI Audio LPS --> Curious Evolved Link --> Chord Qutest--> AQ Water --> Belles Aria Integrated--> AQ Robin Hood--> Kudos Super 20's

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I may be totally imagining this, but I've never noticed anything like it before with Audirvana. With the 2.5.1.4 update it seems as if vocals have been pushed way "behind" the main soundstage. It's hard to explain. Not that the volume is lower for vocals, more that they're muddied(?) or behind a veil. It's almost as if the instruments and voices have two volume controls inside the converter and are struggling to reach equilibrium.

 

Apologies for such an imprecise description. This isn't a DSD question per se since I don't use it for that. This affects the software on all upsampling settings.

 

Thanks for any input.

 

I did find I had to turn off Direct Mode, but I really like the sound of 2.5.1.4 - rich, dynamic, and not recessed in my case.

Personally hoping future builds don't drift far from it (unless a fix for new builds is just to switch Direct Mode back on). I'm happy to see the back of the half year I spent tweaking izotope settings and gear. Haven't touched anything except Direct Mode in months through updates of A+

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I did find I had to turn off Direct Mode, but I really like the sound of 2.5.1.4 - rich, dynamic, and not recessed in my case.

Personally hoping future builds don't drift far from it (unless a fix for new builds is just to switch Direct Mode back on). I'm happy to see the back of the half year I spent tweaking izotope settings and gear. Haven't touched anything except Direct Mode in months through updates of A+

 

Actually, yeah, on axis, it's a little recessed, but I still really like the presentation

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