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Audirvana Plus 2.5.1 with PCM->DSD Conversion


Jud

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That's great Damien.

 

Do you have any comment on the various posts above recommending reducing memory allocated for track pre-load to a minimum in order to reduce CPU load while playing PCM>DSD? What is a wise minimum, and are there potential disadvantages sonically?

 

I'd suggest to keep large buffers to limit the duration of the high CPU usage, and have then full memory play during most of the playback time.

For those who have heating issues, be sure there is no dust in the vents of the Mac. This can strongly decrease the cooling system performance.

And I'm not sure you'd want to decrease the iZotope quality settings to reduce the CPU workload...

MBP 15"/Mac Mini, Audirvana Plus, Audioquest Diamond USB, AMR DP-777, exD DSD DAC (for DSD), Pioneer N-70AE, Audioquest Niagara balanced/Viard Audio Design Silver HD, Accuphase E-560, Cabasse Sumatra MT420

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Thanks, that's very helpful.

 

I'd suggest to keep large buffers to limit the duration of the high CPU usage, and have then full memory play during most of the playback time.

For those who have heating issues, be sure there is no dust in the vents of the Mac. This can strongly decrease the cooling system performance.

And I'm not sure you'd want to decrease the iZotope quality settings to reduce the CPU workload...

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Thanks, that's very helpful.

 

Craig, as we appear to have the same question/issue I was wondering if you can more clearly expand on what Damien exactly means when he advises us to "keep large buffers".

 

Does that mean the slider should be to the right hand side, or the left? And I think we were both trying to get some kind of advice as to how large is large....i.e. the recommended setting. Did Damien's reply answer those points for you?

 

I currently have my memory allocation set at 512 MB but I still get occasional sound cut-outs for a second or two.

Tidal / Qobuz--> Roon--> Fios Gigabit--> Netgear Prosafe GS105 --> Supra 8-->EtherRegen --> Fiber--> opticalRendu / CI Audio LPS --> Curious Evolved Link --> Chord Qutest--> AQ Water --> Belles Aria Integrated--> AQ Robin Hood--> Kudos Super 20's

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Really loving Audirvana 2.5.1.4, working well for me :) Scanning / database performance is still slow, but looking forward to the improvements Damien is working on for 2.6.

 

Seeing that I have a new microRendu, though, I'm wondering if there's any possibility Audirvana might ever support RAAT (Roon endpoint protocol), NAA (HQPlayer endpoint protocol) or even uPnP / DLNA. It's a shame Audirvana can't output to an Ethernet endpoint instead of only USB.

 

I love Roon (where I use the microRendu), but would love if Audirvana had similar capabilities . Just a thought / wish ;)

John Walker - IT Executive

Headphone - SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable Ethernet > mRendu Roon endpoint > Topping D90 > Topping A90d > Dan Clark Expanse / HiFiMan H6SE v2 / HiFiman Arya Stealth

Home Theater / Music -SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable HDMI > Denon X3700h > Anthem Amp for front channels > Revel F208-based 5.2.4 Atmos speaker system

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Couple of questions:

 

When using the DSD upsampling to my Benchmark DAC2, I can repeat that some songs clip the first note or stutter the beginning of the song. With upsampling off, this goes away. What is the best way to resolve this?

 

Secondly, is there documentation on what each of the filters actually look like plotted or what they are intended to achieve?

 

Great release, really enjoying this.

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Done :D I've found a way to get Direct Mode back in 10.11.5!

No more need to replace the 10.11.5 kext.

 

You can now update to Audirvana Plus 2.5.1.4.

 

Have a great WE!

 

Damien

 

Damien, is it your opinion that the change was for the better, or did someone at Apple make a mistake in the kext? Did they change it on purpose (for a reason) or was an error made? Should I put the .5 kext back, and upgrade A+?

No electron left behind.

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I'll confirm this doesn't *only* happen with B4 - had it happen today with C, as well.

 

What happens is the file continues playing (at the current position) in the left channel, but the right channel starts playing the same file but at a different place (could be from the beginning, I couldn't confirm at the time, and it only happens intermittently). After a few seconds, the two channels sync up again.

 

This problem persists in the latest version, across at least two DACs (LH Labs Pulse xFi) and iFi Micro iDSD.

 

As you asked earlier, here are my current Izotope SRC settings:

 

Screen Shot 2016-05-21 at 7.19.51 PM.png

 

It does not always happen on the same track, does not always happen with the first track / last track, etc. The latest occurrence was after I'd listened to 30+ tracks with no glitches, then suddenly the problem happened. As before, the two channels get out of synch - it sounded this time like the right channel skipped back about 5 seconds and played those seconds over, while the left channel continued playing as before. Within about 5 seconds, the right channel suddenly "caught up" to the left channel and the two began playing together again.

 

Very disconcerting.

John Walker - IT Executive

Headphone - SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable Ethernet > mRendu Roon endpoint > Topping D90 > Topping A90d > Dan Clark Expanse / HiFiMan H6SE v2 / HiFiman Arya Stealth

Home Theater / Music -SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable HDMI > Denon X3700h > Anthem Amp for front channels > Revel F208-based 5.2.4 Atmos speaker system

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This problem persists in the latest version

(...) here are my current Izotope SRC settings:

 

I suspect your SRC settings are not ideal...

First, the filter length seems to be too short. See here for reference:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/izotope-sample-rate-convertor-15352/index3.html#post211916

For this parameter the higher, the better. However it only matters with “tricky” combinations of sampling rates, like 44.1k to 192k. When the max filter length is not enough, the output signal may have periodic minor crackle (usually too low to be audible, like –100 dB relative to the signal level). However if you are upsampling 2x or 4x, this should never happen, unless you are using insanely high Steepness. So, for 2x or 4x this parameter should have no effect, which can be confirmed by a null test.

I am not sure whether or not A+ upsamples with integer multiples when converting to DSD... but I would assume it upsamles to the highest rate the DAC is capable of... and that's 6.144 (not 5.644 which would be a multiple of 44.1).

Too, phase warping (so non-linear upsampling when pre-ringing is set to anything else than "1") requires heavier processing than linear upsampling. So both - nonlinear upsampling to a rate that is not an integer multiple of the source file - is processor intensive (RAM intensive respectively).

 

What you are trying to achieve with your settings might just as well sound fine with...:

steepness: 7

filter: 1,300,000

cutoff: 1,02

AA: 200

pre-ringing: 0,86

 

or alternatively:

steepness: 7

filter: 1,300,000

cutoff: 1,04

AA: 200

pre-ringing: 0,36

(somewhat fuller/bolder and punchier than the setting before at the price of slightly less spatial differentiation... "smaller" soundstage if you want so... and possibly more to your liking)

 

I would also suggest to set the volume reduction to -5db (or at least to -3db).

Do you use the SysOptimzer in A+'s prefs? If not I would suggest to do so.

 

I am on a small Macbook Pro Mid 2014, 2.6GHz Intel Duo Core i5, 8GB RAM (1600MHz DDR3) on a freshly installed OS X 10.11.5 (not yet stripped down! ... except for disabling graphical interface effects, the notification center, mission control, the dashboard and the launch pad ... well, and WiFi when playing music) and A+ runs really smooth and error-free when upsampling to DSD128 with both of the settings mentioned above (and with or without AU plugins enabled). SysOptimizer is set to "very high" and disables Spolight and USB support for iDevices.

I just think I go back to OS X 10.9.5 for the time being (on which the newest A+ version still runs error-free...). I have a stripped down version that utilizes less than 60 processes and to date I don't have the time to do the same with 10.11 ...

____________________________________________________

Mac Mini, HQPlayer | iFi Zenstream | Intona 7055-B | Singxer SDA-6 pro | Vincent SV237 | Buchardt S400 | SPL Phonitor One | Beyer DT1990pro | Avantone Planar II
Desktop: Audirvana Origin | Intona 7054 | SMSL M500MKII | NAD C 316BEE | Aperion Novus B5 Bookshelf | Lehmann Rhinelander | Beyer DT700proX

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Me too found those setting strange a bit but i am not even near good to find out what is best...

 

i was using Jud different a bit settings and Dyson old setting too on another thread here and trying also to see what was better for minimizing CPU usage when upsampling to DSD128... all those settings from users sound good to me with my DAC... but different a bit (maybe my DAc is good anyway :-) ) ... so now i put the Damien default ones and still Upsampling whitout bugs or hiccups at DSD128... my memory buffer is at 13312 out of 16gb out of my Mac Mini like Damien suggested... bigger buffer less usage... longer buffering but longer no CPU using...

 

Damien...

are those default settings in A+ are still a standard that you work with to make your software updated... 150/500,000/1.00/200/1,00

i saw that you have put different settings in your PDF of the manual... Do you have new setting when updating A+ for DSD ??

If You Got Ears, You Gotta ListenCaptain Beefheart

 

MacMini 2018, 4xi3 3.6GHz, SSD, 20Gb, macOS Sonoma > Audirvana Origin >

Wyred DAC2 DSD Special Edition > Proceed AMP2 > Focal Cobalt 826 Signature Series >

Audirvana Remote > iPhone 13

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Some 16-18 months ago I downloaded a trial version of Audirvana. Yesterday I tried to download the latest version, to find it out which suits better, Audirvana or HQplayer to my Macbook Pro/ ifi iDSD nano and Neumann KH 120 active studio monitor, but the trial version do not start, got an error message about the license expiring.

 

What do I need to delete from the remains of the earlier version to let the latest trial version to run?

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Try deleting sqlite files in "library"/"applications support"/"audirvana"

Roon / audio-linux / dual PC / I2s FGPA Dac / analog tube processor / analog tube crossover / active speakers / dual subs / absorption+massive diffusion / ugly cat in the room

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I suspect your SRC settings are not ideal...

First, the filter length seems to be too short. See here for reference:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/izotope-sample-rate-convertor-15352/index3.html#post211916

 

I am not sure whether or not A+ upsamples with integer multiples when converting to DSD... but I would assume it upsamles to the highest rate the DAC is capable of... and that's 6.144 (not 5.644 which would be a multiple of 44.1).

Too, phase warping (so non-linear upsampling when pre-ringing is set to anything else than "1") requires heavier processing than linear upsampling. So both - nonlinear upsampling to a rate that is not an integer multiple of the source file - is processor intensive (RAM intensive respectively).

 

What you are trying to achieve with your settings might just as well sound fine with...:

steepness: 7

filter: 1,300,000

cutoff: 1,02

AA: 200

pre-ringing: 0,86

 

or alternatively:

steepness: 7

filter: 1,300,000

cutoff: 1,04

AA: 200

pre-ringing: 0,36

(somewhat fuller/bolder and punchier than the setting before at the price of slightly less spatial differentiation... "smaller" soundstage if you want so... and possibly more to your liking)

 

I would also suggest to set the volume reduction to -5db (or at least to -3db).

Do you use the SysOptimzer in A+'s prefs? If not I would suggest to do so.

 

I am on a small Macbook Pro Mid 2014, 2.6GHz Intel Duo Core i5, 8GB RAM (1600MHz DDR3) on a freshly installed OS X 10.11.5 (not yet stripped down! ... except for disabling graphical interface effects, the notification center, mission control, the dashboard and the launch pad ... well, and WiFi when playing music) and A+ runs really smooth and error-free when upsampling to DSD128 with both of the settings mentioned above (and with or without AU plugins enabled). SysOptimizer is set to "very high" and disables Spolight and USB support for iDevices.

I just think I go back to OS X 10.9.5 for the time being (on which the newest A+ version still runs error-free...). I have a stripped down version that utilizes less than 60 processes and to date I don't have the time to do the same with 10.11 ...

 

I appreciate your comments. I will take a look at this, but I honestly don't think the SRC parameters have anything to do with the channel bug I've reported - now reproduced with three different DACs (LH Labs Pulse, iFi Micro iDSD, internal DAC on my Pioneer receiver) and two different playback methods (via USB > iFi and LH Labs, via HDMI > Pioneer).

 

I have confirmed, though, that the upsampling to max rate PCM is always happening to the 44.1 variant, *not* 48 variant, even if the source is 48-based. That looks like an opportunity to reduce CPU consumption a bit when playing back 48-based content? Also, I note that no matter what SysOpt setting I choose (Standard, Very High, or Extreme), Audirvana uses exactly the same CPU % (on my system, ~220). I would think there might be a bit more horsepower available if unleashed - is Audirvana deliberately limiting the CPU consumption? On my system, this means that only DSD64 and DSD128 are possible, even though my DACs are capable of DSD256 (and the iFi is capable of DSD512, though not possible in OS X).

John Walker - IT Executive

Headphone - SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable Ethernet > mRendu Roon endpoint > Topping D90 > Topping A90d > Dan Clark Expanse / HiFiMan H6SE v2 / HiFiman Arya Stealth

Home Theater / Music -SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable HDMI > Denon X3700h > Anthem Amp for front channels > Revel F208-based 5.2.4 Atmos speaker system

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I appreciate your comments. I will take a look at this, but I honestly don't think the SRC parameters have anything to do with the channel bug I've reported - now reproduced with three different DACs (LH Labs Pulse, iFi Micro iDSD, internal DAC on my Pioneer receiver) and two different playback methods (via USB > iFi and LH Labs, via HDMI > Pioneer).

 

 

Does it vary depending on which SD modulator you choose?

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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Some 16-18 months ago I downloaded a trial version of Audirvana. Yesterday I tried to download the latest version, to find it out which suits better, Audirvana or HQplayer to my Macbook Pro/ ifi iDSD nano and Neumann KH 120 active studio monitor, but the trial version do not start, got an error message about the license expiring.

 

What do I need to delete from the remains of the earlier version to let the latest trial version to run?

 

To get another trial? I'd suggest contacting Damien via the Audirvana Plus customer support contact page: Audirvana Plus | Contact

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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Does it vary depending on which SD modulator you choose?

 

I'll keep testing - I've observed it on B3 and C to-date. Currently listening on A4 (mansr recommended the "A" family for iFi DACs).

 

The problem is it is not predictable and doesn't happen on the same tracks at the same time, so sometimes you have to listen an hour or more to determine if it's happening with a particular modulator / combination of settings. Makes for slow troubleshooting.

John Walker - IT Executive

Headphone - SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable Ethernet > mRendu Roon endpoint > Topping D90 > Topping A90d > Dan Clark Expanse / HiFiMan H6SE v2 / HiFiman Arya Stealth

Home Theater / Music -SonicTransporter i9 running Roon Server > Netgear Orbi > Blue Jeans Cable HDMI > Denon X3700h > Anthem Amp for front channels > Revel F208-based 5.2.4 Atmos speaker system

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Don't know if i'm respected here... :-)

Finally FUN for me, flushed JRiver.

 

Edited: even in beta stage DSD Upsampling is FUN

If You Got Ears, You Gotta ListenCaptain Beefheart

 

MacMini 2018, 4xi3 3.6GHz, SSD, 20Gb, macOS Sonoma > Audirvana Origin >

Wyred DAC2 DSD Special Edition > Proceed AMP2 > Focal Cobalt 826 Signature Series >

Audirvana Remote > iPhone 13

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