Article: Sonore microRendu Review, Part 1

[barrows]

Chris, when it comes on to Part 2, my primary interest (beyond SQ), is what power supply was used in relation to your closing comment of:

 

"I can unequivocally say that with the microRendu in place, my audio system has never sounded better than right now."

 

Having followed the microRendu thread, it seems like the device is on one hand claimed to be somewhat agnostic of external factors, but on the other hand will definitely benefit from (paraphrasing) 'the very best power supplies costing up to $2K+'. As consumers this leaves us slightly confused as to where it's pitched - i.e. should it be considered a $650 device or a $2,500 device?

 

It would be great if you could use a range of power supplies from the ifi upwards, and give some sort of indication of the improvement better supplies bring - assuming it is a factor of course.

 

I've ordered one anyway, with the ifi to start.

 

Look at this way: the µRendu is a $650 dollar device that offers excellent performance with a decent power supply. If one wants the absolute best performance it is capable of, then the best possible power supply is in order. Note that the µRendu, with a really excellent power supply (such as the Sonore Signature Supply designed specifically for it) still retails at around $2K total, and will beat out most (if not all) custom music servers, including ones at much higher price points (I am talking about $10K devices here). With the µRendu you can scale performance to your budget, it will perform quite well with more affordable supplies, but when you are ready to step up to top level performance, you can then add a top level supply to achieve that.

[barrows]

How does the bump in performance compare to putting that $2k into a better DAC or maybe better cabling? I know that's not the easiest question to answer, just trying to get a sense of the relative importance of a better supply. And maybe a sense too as to where diminishing returns will set in.

 

Is there any way you can provide a sense of the magnitude of difference between using the iFi supply vs the $2k supply?

 

There is no way to quantify these kinds of differences. Even if there was a way to quantify them, the level of the difference will be system dependent as well: the better one's system is overall, the bigger the difference will be.

I will say though, that I am constantly astonished by how small changes in power supply design can affect performance of digital components like this.

[barrows]

Thanks barrows.

 

I do get that, but since Chris had made the comment about it in his system, and I'd read some of his other reviews, I was curious whether he was using it as a $650 unit (ie with an ifi or whatever) or a more expensive unit (ie with a high end power supply) in order to say it was the best he'd heard in his system.

 

 

 

I know these things are subjective but 'Performing quite well' with affordable supplies doesn't appear to me to be enough to better all other streamers that have been tested in Chris' setup, so I'm guessing a much higher end PSU was used.....

 

Chris' review states that he used the µRendu with the power supply supplied by Sonore. The supply Sonore provided him was a pre-production version of the Sonore Signature supply. Circuit wise, the supply he used is identical to the production supply, with the only difference being that the pre-production sample he used just a had a little pigtail DC cable made of 18 AWG, silver plated copper wire. The production version of the Sonore Signature Supply comes with a custom (made by Cardas) DC cable which plugs into the supply using a Neutrik Powercon connector.

[barrows]

 

Quoting from the microRendu topic, I see now that the article does very briefly mention the above power supply being used, although initially I didn't notice, and there's no mention of its cost, which perhaps wasn't known at the time of the article. I see it's now listed on the Sonore website as costing $2,399 (USD).

 

That means the total cost of the microRendu source as reviewed was actually $649 + $2,399 = $3,048

Hopefully this will be made clearer in the Part II, as it could possibly be construed as a bit misleading as it stands - finishing with a quote about it being the best sounding source ever heard, followed by a price tag of $649 - when in fact the system including the PS was more than 4x that.

 

That's still an amazing accomplishment if it beats something like the Aurender W20, but I still think its fairer to clarify.

 

Am looking forward to receiving mine to try with the ifi, and I really hope there's a subjective comparison between powering it with the ifi and the above Signature PS in the next part.

 

 

Typo, actual price of the Signature Power Supply is $1399.00, and combo deals may be available. This supply is in a beautiful custom made in the USA chassis, and comes with a very nice custom made (by Cardas) DC cable. This level of parts quality adds up quickly. Additionally, the supply is designed to offer the best performance possible, using a custom made discrete regulator circuit, for the µRendu. Considering the much higher cost of products which can compete at the same sound quality level, the combined price is totally reasonable.

[barrows]

Leaving the cost behind for a second (though its as important), could you provide some insight as to why not use a Uptone JS-2 with microRendu rather than the Sonore ? The JS-2 has an additional flexible output, choke-filtered and has greater amperage. What does the JS-2 lack that Sonore Signature provides to power the microRendu ? I am just trying to understand the two supplies better tailored to my current and future needs.

 

I have no personal experience with the JS-2, so I would not presume to comment on how good it will sound with the µRendu. My only comment would be in regard to using the JS-2 as a two output power supply: in my experience, powering two devices (whatever they may be) from a single supply (like the JS-2, which has two outputs fed from the same transformer) is always at least a slight compromise, technically speaking, from having single isolated supplies for each component. Indeed we could go into this ad infinitum and get really complicated regarding the onboard suppiies, and the level of additional regulation, etc... I am confident in saying that additional current availability beyond what the Sonore Signature Supply is capable of is irrelevant to the performance of the µRendu, as the Sonore supply is fully capable of handling the transient needs of the µRendu.

 

Additionally, suggesting that reviewers should review multiple supplies and rank them, etc, is really putting the reviewer in a tough position. Just sourcing these multiple supplies would be very time consuming (consider how many possible supply options are already discussed in this thread alone), and audio reviewing is taxing enough as it is. The most I would expect to see from a review would be a comparison between a very simple option like iFi, and a more sophisticated one like the Sonore Signature. It is pretty much impossible to make a complete purchase decision based on reviews anyway.

[barrows]

Hi John, well the bottom line is how do all of these systems sound in comparison to one another. So with the Bryston unit about to ship, I'd be interested in any group of people who could compare the sound of the microRendu, the BD-Pi, and an off the shelf Raspberry Pi 3 with a $10 power supply.

 

My bias is that with any good asynchronous USB DAC they would all sound exactly the same, but I'd welcome any data points that showed otherwise.

 

No one who has actually made these kinds of comparisons has had those results, at least no one I have ever heard of. In my experience, i have experienced improved sound quality at every one of the following steps, into a good asynchronous USB DAC:

 

1. Mac laptop via USB using iTunes

2. Mac laptop via USB using Pure Music

3. Custom Server (linux) via USB with SOtM card and dedicated high end power supply

4. New custom server (linux) via USB with SOtM card and internal LiFePO4 battery power, separate regulated/filtered rails

5. µRendu via USB with Sonore Signature Power Supply

 

If you need to understand why, there is plenty of that information available on these forums. Specifically to the µRendu, I would suggest you read all of John Swenson's posts regarding USB audio.

[barrows]

Wow, when I composed my original post I didn't realize I would be causing such an uproar - yours is about the only reply I've seen that is well mannered and not trying to personally attack me based upon asking a few questions - thanks!

 

Regarding DIY, I'm really just talking about getting a Pi, a case, an I2S DAC, putting the DAC onto the PI (no soldering needed for a HAT-compliant board), assembling the case (requires screws and tape), and then flashing a microSD card. Yes, I would not ask my wife to do such a thing, but she wouldn't know how to install/configure any commercial renderer as well.

 

But for those who do have the skills to flash a card and assemble a case, my original post really questioned two things. 1) Can you accomplish the same audio quality with a SBC and "audiophile" linux distro such as Volumio? 2) How future-proof is any commercial renderer option that is based around open source software - how can you be sure that in the future as new open source packages are made available they will run on your proprietary commercial hardware?

 

A friend of mine is a member of a San Francisco audiophile club and they have been meeting up on weekends and doing blind listening tests of equipment, DAC's most recently. There seemed to be widespread agreement that the Schiit Yggdrasil blew away DAC's many times its price. Based upon that, if I was to be in the market for a new USB DAC today, I'd probably choose the Schiit. So I'd be interested in hearing if there have been any similar bake-off of renderers, including one reviewed in this thread, along with an off-the-shelf Raspberry Pi, and later this month the Bryston BD-Pi. One without confirmation bias, which is why I'm not giving weight to many/most of the listening results people on this thread have done.

 

Regarding 2), I don't believe anybody has commented on that yet. As a technology early adopter, when new release of piCorePlayer, Volumio or Moode comes out, I want to try them. I have a LMS running on one of my Pi's right now, indexing music from my networked drives, thanks to the latest release of piCorePlayer. It seems that it would be hard for any commercial hardware company to validate and support the range of open source audio platforms that keep appearing, and are evolving so rapidly. And at least for me, it's a lot of fun playing with all of these audio-centric Linux distros.

 

And finally, the one thing I really like about the audio DIY world to date is that their communities are full of friendly and helpful people.

My one post here has elicited a set of replies that are for the most part are arrogant and condescending. Too many highly insecure people for me, so I'll be dropping out here - it's not a community I want to be a part of.

 

Your approach will not achieve anywhere near the sound quality of the µRendu into a DAC via USB. A better approach to utilizing a small MoBo unit like Raspi or BeagleBone Black (better) is to add external clocking/reclocking with isolation. The masterclock provided directly on these boards is very high in jitter, and the board itself produces so much noise that getting a good clock onboard would be nearly impossible. you can get very good performance out of such an approach, but only with a more sophisticated implementation and more parts.

the discussion of how to do this better is interesting, but very OT for this thread.

[barrows]

I replaced my beloved HRT MusicStreamer II+ DAC with an IQAudio Pi-DAC+ I2S DAC, so I'm not actually using a USB DAC any longer. That said, while I agree the Pi has a poor master clock and is very noisy, when feeding an asynchronous USB DAC I don't see how any of that matters. If the renderer is feeding the DAC with the right bits, at the approximate right timing, and the DAC's clock is driving the timing, how would the renderer change the sound quality of the DAC's analog output? And yes, I've read John Swenson's articles.

 

Experience dictates otherwise. I have lots of experience using DACs which "re-clock" and "eliminate jitter", and in every case they still respond to a lower jitter input stream with better sound quality.

[barrows]

from skikirkwood:

 

"I'm also not saying the solutions I stumbled upon are "superior" to commercial solutions such as the microRendu. Different people have different requirements and weights as to what provides the superior solution to them. I am, however, questioning whether the "purpose built" approach that is being advocated by Sonore provides any better audio quality. I don't believe it does. Apparently the engineers at Bryston agree with me, with their approach of using the Raspberry Pi 2 and HiFiBerry Digi+ board as the core of their new BD-Pi."

 

And there is the rub, and why folks are upset with you. You post pure speculation: "I don't believe it does", without any experience. Those of us that do have the experience which you lack, have found that purpose built solutions do offer tangible, significant improvements in sound quality. Until you actually have the experience, perhaps it would be best if you keep your unfounded opinions to yourself.