Article: Sonore microRendu Review, Part 1

[firedog]

Just ordered mine.

Chris, did you really mean to publish this "redacted" report?

[firedog]

When's part 2? Just curious to whether I'll have mine before it's published or not.

[firedog]

Hi, can you please tell me where you found it.

At sonore it´s been sold out for the last a few week

 

Cheers

 

Luiz

 

It hasn't been sold out, it just went on sale a number of hours ago.

 

The orders for the first 24 hours are limited to a closed list of email subscribers. Acc'd to the email we received, there are enough units on hand to supply the list and more, and general sales will start from the web site after the first 24 hours.

[firedog]

Many thanks,

 

Just curious when the 24 hs will over.

 

Theoretically in about 10 hours, or maybe tomorrow. Or whenever you see it available for order on the website. Enjoy your Friday, and look again tomorrow

[firedog]

Sorry for the newbie question, but is there a way to use the Micro Rendu without a router? Mine is 50 feet away from my stereo, and there's no way to run ethernet that far. I'd love to simply connect a hard drive with my music on it.

 

You could get a second router, or ethernet over Electrical outlets, or a wireless access point, use it as a relay, an d and connect the ethernet of the microRendu to an ethernet port on one of those. But it is specifically designed to work with ethernet.

[firedog]

2 channels

[firedog]

Computer neophyte and need some basic help.

 

I've got a

 

--Synology 1812 NAS with terabytes of music files,

-- a long ethernet cable from the NAS that will reach the micro-Rendu,

-- a DAC that will take USB,

-- and an IPAD.

 

The physical connections seem simple enough but how do I control my music files on the NAS and actually play music in terms of what software might best work?

 

Is all the software just going to be on my IPAD or do I need to fiddle trying to get software on the NAS and/or the micro-Rendu?

 

I don't see simple instructions on the Sonore website. Just a long list of programs I don't recognize that might work with it.

 

Thanks. And apologize for my ignorance on this stuff.

 

Mike

 

You don't need to install anything on the microRendu, but

you need some sort of server software that matches one of the modes on the microRendu: LMS (squeezebox server), Roon, JRiver, Minimserver, etc. The server software can be on your NAS or on any other computer/tablet on your network, as long as that device/server software can be setup so that the audio is sent over the network to the microRendu.

 

Most server software can be controlled from some sort of app from your ipad. I can't be more specific till we know what server software you will install. The simplest setup would be to install the server software on your NAS. In fact, it may have some pre-installed - I don't know enough about your unit to tell you.

 

I hope knowledgeable Synology users (not me) will chime in and tell you what's available to run on your model of NAS that's a match for the microRendu, and the ipad app necessary to control it for playback.

[firedog]

This looks really interesting - right now though I would find it hard to live without Dirac room correction which I use via amarra symphony (stereo). Is there a way to send audio to this device after the correction filter has been applied?

 

apologies in advance for what is probably a dumb question

 

Yes. You need a program that applies the room correction and then can send the digital output over the network to the microRendu.

[firedog]

Firedog, what program will do that with Dirac?

 

Don't have any idea. Don't know much about Dirac. Just meant that their isn't any reason it CAN'T be done. Aren't there units that do Dirac processing with digital outs? I'm pretty sure there are. And isn't there some sort of network bridge device I saw once for Dirac? I'm pretty sure both of those are correct. So if they are, it should be possible.

[firedog]

Chris-

 

You alluded to this in part 1, but I'd just like to explicitly request that you try at least one or two other power supplies at different price points (less than the top of the line Sonore) to give us some kind of comparison/idea what difference the PS makes for the microRendu.

 

I imagine many owners will be trying to decide if to order an upmarket PS, and at what level is makes sense for them to invest.

[firedog]

Okay, I hope people will start posting. First receivers just starting getting the unit on the 4th, AFAIK, so I can see it might take a few days for posts to pop up.

[firedog]

I have no personal experience with the JS-2, so I would not presume to comment on how good it will sound with the µRendu. My only comment would be in regard to using the JS-2 as a two output power supply: in my experience, powering two devices (whatever they may be) from a single supply (like the JS-2, which has two outputs fed from the same transformer) is always at least a slight compromise, technically speaking, from having single isolated supplies for each component. Indeed we could go into this ad infinitum and get really complicated regarding the onboard suppiies, and the level of additional regulation, etc... I am confident in saying that additional current availability beyond what the Sonore Signature Supply is capable of is irrelevant to the performance of the µRendu, as the Sonore supply is fully capable of handling the transient needs of the µRendu.

 

Additionally, suggesting that reviewers should review multiple supplies and rank them, etc, is really putting the reviewer in a tough position. Just sourcing these multiple supplies would be very time consuming (consider how many possible supply options are already discussed in this thread alone), and audio reviewing is taxing enough as it is. The most I would expect to see from a review would be a comparison between a very simple option like iFi, and a more sophisticated one like the Sonore Signature. It is pretty much impossible to make a complete purchase decision based on reviews anyway.

 

I agree asking a reviewer to review 4 or 5 power supplies is too much; but I don't think asking to review 2 or 3 with a device like the microR is. Reviewing just the most and least expensive PS probably is helpful to the least amount of buyers. Most users will probably buy one of the upgrade options short of the Sonore Signature. So having an idea if a $300 or $400 upgrade sounds significantly better than a $50 is a very useful bit of info.

 

I agree I can't make a "complete" purchase decision based on reviews, but I can't audition all the PS's and send them back, so that's all I have to go on. I think many don't want to spend lots of bucks on shipping 4 or 5 PSes to themselves, and then pay the costs of shipping back, if it is at all possible to return the units. Basically I have to decide on one to buy, and live with that decision.

 

One of the PS I was considering already get a relatively negative review from one of the early adopters. If it gets another, I'd probably eliminate it from consideration. To me, that's helpful.

[firedog]

Actually this brings up another question: Is the microRendu product more for (a) a hassle free playback device with multiple platforms support OR (b) An audiophile tuned device for best sound?

 

I understand of course that it is both, but in my case, I have a Mac Mini with an SSD boot drive and a few Squeezebox Touches, I do not find significant differences between the mini or the Touch, and both sound good playing through the Devialet D400. I tried Regen and I cannot say I heard significant differences.

 

To me the Squeezebox Touch is just about the most versatile network player ever built, and with ROON support now it makes seem like the longest standing player platform there is.

 

Being the itchy audiofool, I thought about getting the uRendu for better sound. I guess my question is would it represent a significant step up in sound compared to my current 2 platforms? Would it bring me up near the level of the "supposedly" much better sounding Aurender or the Weiss MAN301?

 

Or is it mostly just a handy box for people who cannot be bothered with messing with a computer or an "obsolete" box like the Squeezebox?

 

I have a standard and a modified Touch (Empirical Audio, with mods and battery PS, it is about a $2000 product). The modded Touch sounds better than the standard one.

 

My SMS-100 (off the shelf board, runs software similar to the mR) with an upscale PS sounds better than the modded Touch.

I have reasonable hopes that a bespoke product like the mR will sound even better.

 

For those with the constant DIY refrain that "I can do the same thing for $35 or $100" is simply silly. You can't. You can do something similar that won't sound as good and takes lots more user intervention. If you are happy with that, great.

 

Skikirkwood, don't try to tell those of us that are willing to spend another $500 to get the ultimate device of it's type that we are wasting our money. You aren't on that side of the cost/returns arc, some of the rest of us are. Yes, there are articles telling me Power Supplies make no difference, but IME, they can. I've heard it.

 

And, I know from experience that the support from Sonore is way better than anything on any forum, and takes less time.

 

When my mR gets here in a few days I'll be able to hear if there is any improvement. I will post.

[firedog]

Thanks.

 

I wonder how it will compare with the more "mainstream" products like the Aurenders? Or even a Weiss MAN301? Are those products overkill compared to the uRendu?

 

In terms of pure sound, Chris' review he prefers it to Aurender - he said it's the best he's heard in his system.

[firedog]

Actually, Chris said the following: ". . . my audio system has never sounded better than right now."

 

So, per his own wording, the Micro Rendu may not better than the other items he's reviewed, but is at least as good.

 

Joel

 

Yes, that is technically what he wrote. I'm willing to bet that his further review will show what he meant is closer to what I understood him to be trying to say.

[firedog]

I saw maybe one post here that was arrogant and condescending, so maybe the insecurity isn't where you located it.

A lot of people don't like to do DIY and prefer having a seller who gives support, as opposed to a forum. A lot of people here have done the comparisons you asked about, but you didn't seem interested in their answers.

Your question about the software - I never understood in the first place.

[firedog]

There is a weakness in the story of all these USB devices (and I also own them): not a single manufacturer has published measurements showing that the output from his device is superior to the output without it.

 

I also subscribe to the "only trust my ears" argument, because in the end, even if I'm fooling myself, I enjoy listening more with the device installed.

 

But it would be nice if someone could actually show improvement that these devices bring.

[firedog]

FWIW, I just compared my microR NAA upsampling to DSD 64 (that's what I can do with the mR and my DAC) to a direct connection from the same server to the DAC with a CAPS PC (Windows), which allows me to do upsampling to DSD 128 to my DAC.

 

To my taste, the mR sounded better. The only words I can describe it with are that the direct to PC playback had what I'd call sort of a "hollowness" - it was more upfront, but not as solid. The mR sound was a bit more recessed, but had more "solidity". To my taste, plus for the mR. That may mean the mR sounds better, or that it is adding some kind of pleasant distortion. Doesn't matter to me.

 

Of course someone else might have had an opposite reaction, but I can only go on what I hear.

[firedog]

Well, let's keep on beating that dead horse. First of all, I didn't choose a DIY solution to save a few bucks. I had a Squeezebox Touch and after several years was curious as to what might provide a better streaming component for my stereo. So investing $50 was a low cost and low risk experiment to see what could be done as a possible replacement. I'm not naturally a DIY kind of guy - but the risk/reward ratio here seemed worthwhile to try it.

 

A friend of mine replaced his HRT MusicStreamer II+ with a $6500 Playback Designs MPD-3, and let me have the HRT DAC on permanent loan. Comparing the sound of the Squeezebox (with its built-in DAC) to the Raspberry Pi B+ and MusicStreamer, I heard a significantly better sound on my Bryston/B&W system. As part of that experiment, I tried out various Linux distros and found them hard to work with and configure for audio - until I stumbled upon Volumio. It's a highly tuned Linux distro designed for a headless SBC acting as an audio streamer.

 

Then I started reading about the advantages of I2S DAC's, and thought for $45 it would be fun to try one and compare the sound to the HRT DAC, so I bought an IQAudio Pi-DAC+. IQAudio is as far as I can tell a one man company from Glasgow who recently moved to England. I like supporting small companies with innovative products, and everything I read about his DAC indicated it was pretty remarkable. When I received the DAC it took 5 minutes to add it on top of the Pi, power it up, and use Volumio's Web-based UI to choose it as the audio output device, as well as enable the hardware volume control it supports. The sound was stunning. No soldering involved, which is good, since I've never soldered anything in my life.

 

I was blown away how good this little DAC sounded. And I've had my friend's Playback Designs DAC in my music room. Perhaps the MPD-3 had a bit better soundstage and depth, but not a very big difference. And that's before I discovered I could change the default digital interpolation filter on the DAC to one which I thought sounded even better.

 

After that I forked up another $15 and bought a case for the Pi/DAC combo - that was the hardest part of the whole DIY effort - taping the corners of the case components before screwing them in.

 

Since then I bought another Pi, the 3, and another IQAudio DAC, along with a bunch of microSD cards, having tried out Moode and Rune Audio distributions. I'm currently running Volumio on one, and piCorePlayer on the other. I then added the open source Spotify Connect module to Volumio, so even though Volumio supports Spotify now I can use the Pi as a Spotify Connect device, which is a big improvement.

 

None of this was to "save money". It was due to my curiosity, and I think it's a lot of fun to play around with the various "audiophile" linux distros.

 

I'm also not saying the solutions I stumbled upon are "superior" to commercial solutions such as the microRendu. Different people have different requirements and weights as to what provides the superior solution to them. I am, however, questioning whether the "purpose built" approach that is being advocated by Sonore provides any better audio quality. I don't believe it does. Apparently the engineers at Bryston agree with me, with their approach of using the Raspberry Pi 2 and HiFiBerry Digi+ board as the core of their new BD-Pi.

 

I am also questioning the longer term approach of packaging a bunch of open source modules with a proprietary hardware product like this and how future-proof it will be. Actually, I'm questioning how usable is the current software packaged with the Sonore unit compared to integrated Linux distros such as Volumio and Moode. Yes, Squeezelite is one option for the microRendu, but the piCorePlayer platform incorporates the latest releases of Squeezelite with other options and software (e.g. Shairplay), providing what I am guessing (since I haven't used the Sonore software) is a more integrated, functionally complete and easy to use interface. Third party apps that control the Linux MPD player (an option for the microRendu) are pretty weak, whereas Volumio, Moode and Rune offer highly usable UI's that run in standard web browsers but with CSS tuned to smart phones and tablets above and beyond PC's.

 

And regarding Doak's comment that I'm not welcome here, this is, after all, a comment thread on a review of the microRendu. So in any critical review, and the comment thread to follow, I believe the basic design approach and "benefits" of the product should be questioned and debated. I also believe alternatives should be compared. Hence, my motivation for my original posting.

 

Now, to end here by adding more fuel to the fire, after reading up on digital audio over the last year I decided to post my first article on Medium about what I found. Here it is:

 

https://medium.com/@skikirkwood/truth-lies-and-fraud-in-the-audiophile-world-a365e56c97c4#.nhblwvrgi

 

And I followed that with a post on how I evolved from an early CD player to my current gear:

 

https://medium.com/@skikirkwood/how-to-play-2000-cds-without-a-cd-player-d6f231057971#.xikszxv5l

 

I'm sure the above two Medium postings will provide a bunch of you with a lot more ammo for snarky comments. Bring it on.

 

Thanks. That's a well written post with a well thought out process described.

 

Part of the reaction to what you originally wrote is because we (I) unfairly lumped you with DIYers who say about every product, "I can do it better for 1/10 of the price". The truth is that in the vast majority of cases they can't; and in the cases where the DIY route does result in something with equal sound quality, it may be: a)only so on their setup, and not on someone else's; b)inconvenient to use for others when the commercial product isn't; c)missing some feature the builder doesn't care about but others do; d) ugly - and yes some of us care about how things look and are willing to pay for better looking products; e) without true product support, not just Google searches and forum support.

 

I personally have used linux products that were way too fiddly for me. I can go in and do command line stuff to get things to work, update, etc. - but I don't want to - ever. I just want to play my music. So I don't want to DIY, even if I pay for the privilege not to.

 

It may be that the microRendu and other products like it don't sound better than a "one PC" solution or a "two PC solution" like you came up with. But when I do comparisons in either of those scenarios, the mR sounds better to me than my alternatives. If I'm fooling myself or enjoying euphonious added distortion, so be it.

 

As far as software, I don't exactly get your point. Are you trying to say there's risk involved b/c the support for the unit might disappear? That's certainly possible, but it's true of just about all hifi devices including those from big companies. My previous player is from SOtM, and it's now no longer being given support. For me, the mR has built in the ability to use all the software packages I'm interested in - now and in the foreseeable future. It also has support from people who give proper support of their products.

 

I read your blog posts and disagree with some of what you wrote. Your bit about Nyquist and why hi-res is irrelevant shows an incomplete understanding of the theory - because the theory makes several assumptions (has conditions for it to work) that don't exist in almost every Redbook recording. And thinking hi-res is a worthwhile medium isn't about humans being able to hear frequencies above 20k. I also don't accept Waldrep's definition of high res. That can all be discussed elsewhere in more detail.

As far as audio publications and expensive products: a) they don't always say the more expensive stuff sounds better, but instead of dissing an expensive piece, they will say that a less expensive product sounds as good or better than many more expensive pieces, or that it sounds very close to the much more expensive piece, and may be a better value for some readers. That kind of stuff is pretty common, and is one of the things I look for in reviews. b)my understanding is also that for most reviewers and publications - if they truly think the product is subpar they simply don't publish the review and return the piece. You may not approve of that approach, I get it. But that's why you only see positive reviews.

[firedog]

I disagree. If the customer wants to use it as a Roon endpoint yes. But many people will want to use SqueezeLite output or MPD output in conjunction with the ShairPort Airplay emulator. You're listening to your music collection on a network share streaming to the microRendu running MPD and may want to fire up a Tidal or Spotify app on your smartphone or tablet and beam it to the Airport emulator. That should be seamless, which it is with Volumio/Rune/Moode, but it sounds like with the microRendu I have to invoke the Audio App Switcher and change output modes. Not having seen this I don't know how it works, but it certainly doesn't sound seamless as it is with these audiophile distros whose primary purpose is to provide an integrated experience of using several packages without changing "output modes". Another example is adding tracks to a playlist, where those tracks can come from your network share, Spotify, Tidal, etc. Sounds like I can't do that in MPD Output mode on the Sonore.

 

The customers of Volumio/Rune/Moode are by and large audiophiles who use these distributions because they provide a better end user experience than any one open source module in exclusive mode. I believe they are exactly the same market Sonore is targeting with the microRendu.

 

Think you're quite wrong here. The customers for Sonic Orbiter OS basically want plug and play ethernet to USB solution in a "2PC" setup b/c they think that gives them the best SQ, in principle. Based on several years of experience, and interaction with other users of the OS, I'm pretty sure most of us have one mode we use almost all the time. On this forum there are a lot of people who've bought it as a Roon endpoint or as an HQP endpoint - or who like it specifically as an HQP NAA with Roon as the interface to the NAA.

 

As Chris indicated, using it in one mode at a time is exactly what we are looking for. I can run it in 4 of the 5 modes in my setup, but I'm not interested. Before I bought Roon and HQP I used it exclusively in MPD/DLNA mode with JRiver, now I use it exclusively in NAA mode. One of the reasons I bought it is exactly the software package. I knew it would "just work" from the moment I plugged it in my setup. I'm not really interested in any other UI besides Roon or barring Roon, JRiver/JRemote at this point. I've tried lots of them and those are the only two that truly fit the way I like to listen and the interact with my library.

 

I suspect (and I'm not trying to be snarky) that many of the audiophile users of Volumio/Rune/Moode use them not only because they like them, but because they are free. That's fine. Some of us are willing to pay $50 or $100 or more for what we consider a superior user experience. To each his/her own. Are you positive the users of free software would still be using them if some of the commercial software packages were somehow free?

 

And again, you haven't used the software so you don't get quite how it works. In MPD/DLNA mode it can be used with a program like JRiver and some other software so you can do just about anything with a playlist or anything else you can think of to do in an audio interface. One of the things you aren't quite getting is that a lot of the members here use one of the widely available commercial playback software packages like JRiver, Roon, HQP, Audirvana, etc. I'm pretty sure that's a majority of the users, or at least of the posters.

 

"We" use them b/c we think they provide some feature that open source software doesn't (nothing open source can do what HQP does), or because we prefer the GUI they provide (JRiver/JRemote and Roon come to mind). Ditto for different software for Apple users. You may think the open source software provides a better user experience, many of us would respectfully and forcefully disagree.

[firedog]

Isn't this device, pretty much identical to the SOTM SMS-100?

I don't doubt that improvements have been made, but it seems to be identical in its intended purpose.

 

Ethernet in, USB out.... Even using SGC software for the OS.

Maybe I am missing something. Is it just smaller?

 

SMS-100 is off the shelf board. Nothing special. Not designed for audio. A board in a box.

 

Functionally the 2 devices are similar.

 

microRendu is specifically designed as low noise device for audio.

 

As SMS-100 owner, I can assure you mR is superior sounding. It also has a couple of nice added features: it boots up in a fraction of the time of SMS_100, and is Roon Ready. SMS-100 is discontinued and won't have any features added to OS.