Ayre Acoustics QX-5 Twenty – The Digital Hub

[shaq]

Newbie question.

If I have a microRendu which I purchased so that I could get Roon in my system, is it rendered useless if I go to the Ayre QX-5 20?

 

I currently use the Berkeley DAC 1 along with the Berkley USB Converter.

[ctsooner]

Newbie question.

If I have a microRendu which I purchased so that I could get Roon in my system, is it rendered useless if I go to the Ayre QX-5 20?

 

I currently use the Berkeley DAC 1 along with the Berkley USB Converter.

 

The DAC is a Roon endpoint, so you need to have Roon core running upstream. I believe that's all it is, but others know so much more technically than I do.

 

Also, Pat, I just reread my response to you and I hope you don't take it in the wrong vein. I was just trying to say that as much as I like Audio Research, that their digital hasn't fully done if for me and that I love the Ayre so much more, but there is a reason so many companies are successful as we all hear differently.

[Dr Tone]

Newbie question.

If I have a microRendu which I purchased so that I could get Roon in my system, is it rendered useless if I go to the Ayre QX-5 20?

 

Yes. It's no longer needed.

[d_elm]

Shaq, you should burn-in the QX-5 twenty ethernet and USB inputs and decide if you like it better with or without the microRendu. This is not yet a given.

[Ultrarunner]

Yes. It's no longer needed.

 

Hang on to it and compare the sound quality with and without the microRendu. That's what I intend to do if I can get approval to make the QX our Christmas gift ;-).

 

I use the mR in Squeezelite mode. It integrates my music folder structure well with Spotify, which I have a free subscription to, and use for music discovery. I'm not sure how the QX-5 control app would handle this.

[scottsol]

You would not use the Ayre Mcontrol app. Simply put the Ayre in the USB input and treat as a conventional DAC.

 

Only testing can determine if the Rendu would have any sonic advantages. Naturally, the USB cable and the quality of the network feed would be a factor.

[Pat Case]

The DAC is a Roon endpoint, so you need to have Roon core running upstream. I believe that's all it is, but others know so much more technically than I do.

 

Also, Pat, I just reread my response to you and I hope you don't take it in the wrong vein. I was just trying to say that as much as I like Audio Research, that their digital hasn't fully done if for me and that I love the Ayre so much more, but there is a reason so many companies are successful as we all hear differently.

 

No, no, I took your comment in the spirit in which I think you intended. I need to explore more. In terms of equipment changes, my path as an audiophile has been relatively short. That path started six years ago with the Audiolab M-DAC. Then, a couple of years ago, after auditioning the Hugo and the DAC8, I chose the latter for what I now remember as a lack of 'invasiveness' into my sound reproduction. I bypassed the Ayre equipment because of what I saw as shortfalls in connectivity. It's time to reassess.

[ctsooner]

No, no, I took your comment in the spirit in which I think you intended. I need to explore more. In terms of equipment changes, my path as an audiophile has been relatively short. That path started six years ago with the Audiolab M-DAC. Then, a couple of years ago, after auditioning the Hugo and the DAC8, I chose the latter for what I now remember as a lack of 'invasiveness' into my sound reproduction. I bypassed the Ayre equipment because of what I saw as shortfalls in connectivity. It's time to reassess.

 

Oh, now I understand your quote on Ayre. I too looked elsewhere when I came back into this as a hobby and to rebuild my system. One connection wasn't going to work when I had so many digital sources. Even with my Empirical Audio DAC, I still needed to buy their Synchro Mesh reclocker and connection deal to get everything into the system. Now with the Ayre, it's just a breeze and I have more flexibility to purchase any NAS/Source i want.

 

As for the Hugo vs the AR, that would have been interesting. As much as I like the Chord mids, I'm not always a fan of their highs. They can be bright much of the time based on my listening. I also don't feel they do bass properly. It's always lacking in impact compared to other top DAC's. The one thing this QX5 is giving me is an organic musical presentation that is as dynamic already, as any DAC I've heard in my system and the bass is real. It's tight, tuneful and just rock solid. Double bass sounds like double bass. Old European dance tracks are moving a lot of air in the room. I thought the Vandy Treo's I use lacked bass punch and dynamics on some rock material, but boy am I wrong. I have what's on the recording. Will it move as much air as the Quatro? No, just due to displacement, but it's much easier for me to say no to low ball offers for the speakers as I'm hearing them like I never have before.

 

I didn't go with the AR8 back then either as the Empirical was something special, but now I see all it's flaws too, although it still is better than most of the DAC's in it's price range. I was an audio free agent and not locked into Ayre or anyone else. I've just gone this route, because of what they are offering me in sound vs cost. it's not inexpensive gear, but I've been lucky to afford what I have and it's giving me so much pleasure.

 

Pat, what part of the country do you live? Just curious if I know your dealer. I know many I frequent sell both the Ayre and AR gear so you can easily do side by sides and also vs Berkley or other higher cost ones they probably offer. It's a good time for digital that's for sure and we are just scratching the surface. At least with the Ayre, I know that they'll eventually have a ref DAC and upgrade the QX once or twice so I can stay on top of tech for 5 plus years easily.

[Pat Case]

Oh, now I understand your quote on Ayre. I too looked elsewhere when I came back into this as a hobby and to rebuild my system. One connection wasn't going to work when I had so many digital sources. Even with my Empirical Audio DAC, I still needed to buy their Synchro Mesh reclocker and connection deal to get everything into the system. Now with the Ayre, it's just a breeze and I have more flexibility to purchase any NAS/Source i want.

 

As for the Hugo vs the AR, that would have been interesting. As much as I like the Chord mids, I'm not always a fan of their highs. They can be bright much of the time based on my listening. I also don't feel they do bass properly. It's always lacking in impact compared to other top DAC's. The one thing this QX5 is giving me is an organic musical presentation that is as dynamic already, as any DAC I've heard in my system and the bass is real. It's tight, tuneful and just rock solid. Double bass sounds like double bass. Old European dance tracks are moving a lot of air in the room. I thought the Vandy Treo's I use lacked bass punch and dynamics on some rock material, but boy am I wrong. I have what's on the recording. Will it move as much air as the Quatro? No, just due to displacement, but it's much easier for me to say no to low ball offers for the speakers as I'm hearing them like I never have before.

 

I didn't go with the AR8 back then either as the Empirical was something special, but now I see all it's flaws too, although it still is better than most of the DAC's in it's price range. I was an audio free agent and not locked into Ayre or anyone else. I've just gone this route, because of what they are offering me in sound vs cost. it's not inexpensive gear, but I've been lucky to afford what I have and it's giving me so much pleasure.

 

Pat, what part of the country do you live? Just curious if I know your dealer. I know many I frequent sell both the Ayre and AR gear so you can easily do side by sides and also vs Berkley or other higher cost ones they probably offer. It's a good time for digital that's for sure and we are just scratching the surface. At least with the Ayre, I know that they'll eventually have a ref DAC and upgrade the QX once or twice so I can stay on top of tech for 5 plus years easily.

 

I concur in your conclusions about the Hugo. In my system, it was the lower regions where it seemed to ehibit a house sound that was apparent to my ears. I'm not sure what I'd think of it now as I've changed my front end, with the addition of the Revel Salon 2s. The Ayre V-5xe is sometimes pegged as being bass shy. I'm not so sure that it's the amp or whether that shyness arises in combination with other equipment.

 

I have found a remarkable difference between bass output from the V-5xe when using the DAC8 to play digital music and when playing my TT directly to the Ayre K-5xemp preamp or when playing the Oppo BDP 95 disc player directly to the K-5xe. In both of the latter two cases, there is more grunt apparent through the speakers with the winning levels going to the TT. I'm not saying that the DAC8 is bad but, perhaps in the combination with the K-5xe, it doesn't take advantage of the Salon's phenomenal bottom end.

 

My dealer is Soundstage Fine Audio, in Waterloo, Ontario. In terms of electronics, their focus is on Ayre, AR, Naim, Devialet, Arcam and at their entry level Cambridge. Even though I think that, before I purchased it, he should have informed me that the DAC8 was close to the end of its production cycle. On the other hand, at the time, the DAC was selling for about $7500Cdn and I got it for $3500. I've never received bad advice from Mark, the owner so, I may reach out to him for advice about the QX-5, which I know, from others, that he has in stock.

[ctsooner]

Good deal. That's one reason I never liked the AR digital. Similar to the Chord in that respect. Some fight me, but even a few manufacture's I speak with regularly will privately say the same thing. You'll be surprised when he puts the QX5 on for you. It will feed the Revels gobs of proper bass. It should make you smile, plus the Revel's can be a bit bright if not pared properly. You get get that revealing sound you love from your speakers, but the full spectrum that you have paid for. I think many feel the Ayre can be bass shy, but personally, I have never heard that as I usually hear it set up properly. Even from Wilsons and Magicos that I don't love, the Ayre drives the bass to subterranean levels.

 

Please let us know what you are going to listen and keep us posted. I look forward to your thoughts, especially knowing what you are coming from and how you listen. As I'm sure you do, you like to know what others are running or what they love in order to see if you hear similar things.

 

I concur in your conclusions about the Hugo. In my system, it was the lower regions where it seemed to ehibit a house sound that was apparent to my ears. I'm not sure what I'd think of it now as I've changed my front end, with the addition of the Revel Salon 2s. The Ayre V-5xe is sometimes pegged as being bass shy. I'm not so sure that it's the amp or whether that shyness arises in combination with other equipment.

 

I have found a remarkable difference between bass output from the V-5xe when using the DAC8 to play digital music and when playing my TT directly to the Ayre K-5xemp preamp or when playing the Oppo BDP 95 disc player directly to the K-5xe. In both of the latter two cases, there is more grunt apparent through the speakers with the winning levels going to the TT. I'm not saying that the DAC8 is bad but, perhaps in the combination with the K-5xe, it doesn't take advantage of the Salon's phenomenal bottom end.

 

My dealer is Soundstage Fine Audio, in Waterloo, Ontario. In terms of electronics, their focus is on Ayre, AR, Naim, Devialet, Arcam and at their entry level Cambridge. Even though I think that, before I purchased it, he should have informed me that the DAC8 was close to the end of its production cycle. On the other hand, at the time, the DAC was selling for about $7500Cdn and I got it for $3500. I've never received bad advice from Mark, the owner so, I may reach out to him for advice about the QX-5, which I know, from others, that he has in stock.

[Pat Case]

Good deal. That's one reason I never liked the AR digital. Similar to the Chord in that respect. Some fight me, but even a few manufacture's I speak with regularly will privately say the same thing. You'll be surprised when he puts the QX5 on for you. It will feed the Revels gobs of proper bass. It should make you smile, plus the Revel's can be a bit bright if not pared properly. You get get that revealing sound you love from your speakers, but the full spectrum that you have paid for. I think many feel the Ayre can be bass shy, but personally, I have never heard that as I usually hear it set up properly. Even from Wilsons and Magicos that I don't love, the Ayre drives the bass to subterranean levels.

 

Please let us know what you are going to listen and keep us posted. I look forward to your thoughts, especially knowing what you are coming from and how you listen. As I'm sure you do, you like to know what others are running or what they love in order to see if you hear similar things.

 

 

I just read my previous post - sorry about the poor punctuation. I'll let you know how things progress.

[bmichels]

I just did both updates. Input switching looks rock solid now. I can switch from a live WASAPI stream from jriver to TV and back again and to ethernet and back no problem. Looks like I might get the digital "hub" I always wanted after all.

 

Great. But does this also fix the issue when you switch between USB-HD and Ethernet-HD (NAS), booth being input N°10 ?

[Blackstone]

Great. But does this also fix the issue when you switch between USB-HD and Ethernet-HD (NAS), booth being input N°10 ?

 

I think so. I just know I haven't had to reboot since the update.

[bmichels]

Every system will be different. What are you using? Going from the 7 to the 5/TWenty is a HUGE difference. I have found that feeding the best source has worked for ME and in MY system. When I get my own qx5 up and burned in on my system in my room, I'll have a better idea, but since I no longer have the 7 and honestly if I did, I wouldn't want to take the time to exchange the two to hear the difference in the scenario you ask about. The 7 is now discontinued, so the dealers wouldn't even be able to answer that question. I haven't heard the N1ZH, which is the unit I'm going to get, but right now the Mac Mini I"m putting up for sale to get he Melco may be as good as it. It's as good as the top Antipodes and it's sister Mac is being used in shows to show off one of the top DACs i the world, the new Empirical Audio OSDX. It has a huge Paul Hynes power supply and the mating cord is a hand drawn silver cord that makes a huge difference. Steve rebuilt everything inside the Mac that he could so it's clocked properly and is fed clean power. He lowered noise wherever he could and installed a much larger RAM and SSD. I love my server currently, but I want to network my server and the Melco is best for MY purposes as I'm not a tech guy. I know I can do it with the Mac easily, but I'd rather just do the Melco and use the ethernet ports on it and not USB.

 

Personally, I feel that in order

Speaker

source (server then DAC)

amplificaion

cabling

tweeks

 

 

So you will use a MELCO server ? To be sure I understand well, may I ask how you will connect the MELCO to the QX-5 ?

 

Indeed, from what I understand the MELCO is a Music server with a particularity that is that it can connect to the DAC not only through USB but also, if your DAC is a streamer like the QX-5, with a simple direct ethernet cable, without having to use an ethernet network like you will have to do with a NAS. Is it correct ?

 

This is important to me because in my listening room, I do NOT have access to wired Ethernet (only Wifi). So a direct connection MELCO <--> QX5 through a simple ethernet cable is ideal.

 

But then... if you want to use ROON, how do you do ??? Indeed, the QX-5 is only an "end-point", and I do not believe that the MELCO can run "ROON SERVER" ? So.... you still need to have a PC runing ROON somewhere on the network ? :-(((( correct ?

 

and... how do I use TIDAL ? Indeed, if I connect the MELCO with a direct ethernet short cable, then I configure the QX-5 for "wired", so how do the QX-5 (or ROON) access TIDAL (can't have "wired" and "Wifi" at the same time ??

[Blackstone]

You don't use Roon with a Melco. The Melco uses an ARM CPU and Roon is x86. Not compatible. What you can do is get on the forums and gloat over having superior sound quality to the Roon using unwashed masses.

[Blackstone]

You can use the Melco via usb for serious listening and then stream from tidal via wifi. Not sure if it allows ethernet and wifi but you can probably do usb and wifi.

[bmichels]

You can use the Melco via usb for serious listening and then stream from tidal via wifi. Not sure if it allows ethernet and wifi but you can probably do usb and wifi.

 

 

Yes but I wonder is the MELCO output isn't optimised for Ethernet ? May be it's Ethernet connection sis better than USB ?

[ctsooner]

Melco feels the Ethernet direct to the QX is best. Bother their network Ethernet and their DAC connection ports are piped and isolated and some other buzz word lol. I am streaming wifi Tidal using the QX wifi antenna and it's fine for now. I use the Mac mini via USB AQ Diamond for the high Rez stuff. It's sound unbelievable so far. I don't care about Roon at the moment. I was told Melco will eventuallly have their own interface that wl rival Roon or Roon wl eventually get theirs to work with the ARM devices. Long way to go

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile

[Audio]

I am using the Melco to feed the QX-5 with wired ethernet and with USB; Input 10 and Input 9 on the QX-5 respectively.

 

There is clearly a difference, ethernet has a denser feel in the music, USB seems "leaner and finer" but lacks the cosy feel.

 

I am not playing off the Melco, Music is acting as a ethernet / USB purifier. I got a music server running Jriver with Audio Optimizer 2.0 with Windows Server 2012 link to the Melco with fiber.

 

(Audio)

[ctsooner]

Audio, I"m trying to follow as I"m still learning so much of digital set up. I'm getting there, but not totally there yet. Do you have a schematic of your set up? I think I understand what you are doing and I wonder if adding the server makes sense and if so, why? I have wanted to run Roon with all of this, but as we know Melco and Roon are two different languages so that's not happening anytime soon if at all as Roon doesn't seem to want to make their system run on the ARM that Melco uses (I believe that's what Melco is using).

 

I am using the Melco to feed the QX-5 with wired ethernet and with USB; Input 10 and Input 9 on the QX-5 respectively.

 

There is clearly a difference, ethernet has a denser feel in the music, USB seems "leaner and finer" but lacks the cosy feel.

 

I am not playing off the Melco, Music is acting as a ethernet / USB purifier. I got a music server running Jriver with Audio Optimizer 2.0 with Windows Server 2012 link to the Melco with fiber.

 

(Audio)

[bmichels]

Audio, I"m trying to follow as I"m still learning so much of digital set up. I'm getting there, but not totally there yet. Do you have a schematic of your set up? I think I understand what you are doing and I wonder if adding the server makes sense and if so, why? I have wanted to run Roon with all of this, but as we know Melco and Roon are two different languages so that's not happening anytime soon if at all as Roon doesn't seem to want to make their system run on the ARM that Melco uses (I believe that's what Melco is using).

 

I also would like yo be sure to understand Audio's set-up. I really do not understand when Audio says "I am not playing off the Melco, Music is acting as a ethernet / USB purifier.".

 

And therefore I do not understand how ROON can be used with MELCO->QX-5 despite the fact that QX-5 is ROON Ready !?

[ctsooner]

bmichels, I was told by someone that if I ran a fast, SSD memory computer for Roon, that I can somehow hook it up with the Melco and use the Melco as a NAS only (which I'll be doing anyways) and can run Roon. Didn't make any sense to me and I hate adding all these extra things to the signal. Melco even told me to not use a switch as it adds a ton of noise.

 

I also would like yo be sure to understand Audio's set-up. I really do not understand when Audio says "I am not playing off the Melco, Music is acting as a ethernet / USB purifier.".

 

And therefore I do not understand how ROON can be used with MELCO->QX-5 despite the fact that QX-5 is ROON Ready !?

[Vangelis]

My QX-5 has 350 music hrs on it. I made a few observations over the last month.

It has just now started to loosen up with music sounding more relaxing and engaging with a more continuousness to its presentation. It does not like to be turned off. If it's shut off and allowed to power down and fully cool, it sounds really awful and then requires a full 30 plus hours of warm up and regain its relaxed swing and composure. I was surprised to find that SPDIF sounds the weakest even with a near state of art USB to SPDIF converter and the best SPDIF cables. USB is better than SPDIF confirmed from two sources, one being my dialed in Mac Mini with Pure Music and the other my Melco N1a both using the same AudioQuest Diamond USB cable.

There are probably better USB implementations than mine but, at least in my system, the best sound from the QX-5 came from ethernet sourced from either a Synology NAS network or the N1a.

 

It should be pointed out that during my Ethernet listening, the QX-5 was cabled up with less than stellar stuff. I used Melco's ungraded Ethernet cable and a five dollar generic cat 7 cable with both sounding better than USB. Surprisingly the cheap cat 7 cable sounds clearly better .

 

I am anticipating an even larger gap between the QX-5's USB and ethernet performance. My Ayre dealer recommend the Transparent Ethernet cable and I ordered it up and I'm awaiting its arrival. This cable is new and in spite of not being a Cat 7 cable, a lot of reports suggest this is the best sounding ethernet cable regardless of price. Ayre has been demoing with the Transparent Ethernet cable and Melco to very good effect, so it maybe upon its installation, it will take my QX-5 to the next level of musical nirvana.

[Audio]

Hi folks,

 

I am sorry, I have move Melco out of my signal chain...DON'T NEED IT.

 

I had post my system description in another forum, here is it for those who are interested in my system....just sharing...

 

Here are all the equipment I am using:-

 

Hi Fi Rack

Ayre QX-5 Twenty DAC

Crystal Absolute Dream Balanced Interconnect

Ayre KX-R Twenty

Crystal Absolute Dream Balanced Interconnect

Ayre MX-R Twenty

Siltech Prince Speaker cables

Thiel 3.7 loudspeakers.

 

All power cords are Siltech SPX-800 power cords connected to a PurePower 3000+ power regenerator.

 

Ethernet cables are AudioQuest RJ/E Ethernet Diamond.

USB cable is a Siltech Classic USB cable.

 

Music Server (Located in another room)

Intel i7 5960X CPU with Asrock X99 WS motherboard (I need Window server 2012 compatibility), 64GB DDR4 Rams, Corsair AX15000i PSU, NO GRAPHIC CARD! System runs on a Samsung M2 SM951 SSD. Music contents storage in 8 X Samsung 1TB EVO840 SSD running on RAID10 with a Adaptec 78165 RAID card.

 

USB is an Adnaco S3 PCI-e card inside Music Server, fiber optically coupled to a USB hub situated at the Hi Fi Rack by a 20M orange fiber cable.

 

Ethernet is converted to fiber by a CableRack Media converter, fiber optically couple to a Cablerack fiber switch via a 20M yellow 1310 fiber. TP-Link Jetstream TL-SG5412F fiber switch used in-between, injecting internet and wireless access, though a Apple AirPort Time Capsule.

 

System OS Window Server 2012 R2 Essentials running with Audiophile Optimizer 2.0 in Core mode (A1 settings) , JRiver MC22.

 

Let me know if you have further questions.

 

(Audio)

[ctsooner]

So which Melco were you using? I"m looking at the N1ZH. I would really love to have Roon. Do you think the Intel server you have rounds better than Melco used as a NAS and not as a server?

 

Hi folks,

 

I am sorry, I have move Melco out of my signal chain...DON'T NEED IT.

 

I had post my system description in another forum, here is it for those who are interested in my system....just sharing...

 

Here are all the equipment I am using:-

 

Hi Fi Rack

Ayre QX-5 Twenty DAC

Crystal Absolute Dream Balanced Interconnect

Ayre KX-R Twenty

Crystal Absolute Dream Balanced Interconnect

Ayre MX-R Twenty

Siltech Prince Speaker cables

Thiel 3.7 loudspeakers.

 

All power cords are Siltech SPX-800 power cords connected to a PurePower 3000+ power regenerator.

 

Ethernet cables are AudioQuest RJ/E Ethernet Diamond.

USB cable is a Siltech Classic USB cable.

 

Music Server (Located in another room)

Intel i7 5960X CPU with Asrock X99 WS motherboard (I need Window server 2012 compatibility), 64GB DDR4 Rams, Corsair AX15000i PSU, NO GRAPHIC CARD! System runs on a Samsung M2 SM951 SSD. Music contents storage in 8 X Samsung 1TB EVO840 SSD running on RAID10 with a Adaptec 78165 RAID card.

 

USB is an Adnaco S3 PCI-e card inside Music Server, fiber optically coupled to a USB hub situated at the Hi Fi Rack by a 20M orange fiber cable.

 

Ethernet is converted to fiber by a CableRack Media converter, fiber optically couple to a Cablerack fiber switch via a 20M yellow 1310 fiber. TP-Link Jetstream TL-SG5412F fiber switch used in-between, injecting internet and wireless access, though a Apple AirPort Time Capsule.

 

System OS Window Server 2012 R2 Essentials running with Audiophile Optimizer 2.0 in Core mode (A1 settings) , JRiver MC22.

 

Let me know if you have further questions.

 

(Audio)