Cybershaft rubidium clock...low priced option?

[zephyr24069]

Here is the revised clock graph from the first page. I have also added the Sforzato PMC-01 BVA clock, which is the only clock in the world based on the Oscilloquartz BVA-8607 OCXO module:

 

 

The numbers used in this table, are based on minimum manufacturer guaranteed values. The actual samples may exceed those numbers.

 

The perofrmance of the Sforzato PMC-01 BVA clock is so good - it should be considered the curent king of the hill in clock world. No wonder there were reports people in Asia dumping the Esoteric clocks for those.

 

Antelope on the other hand, looks like a complete garbage.

 

Wow! Those are amazing specs on the Sforzato; I may have to check that out but that price point may be off the charts for a clock (for me)! The aluminum block construction and how they channeled out the interior cavities is amazing. That is one serious piece of engineering!

[zephyr24069]

Just a quick note that those who purchase a Cybershaft clock will receive a certificate of calibration with measurements that show unit purchased meets or exceeds published specs. In my case (OCXO Premium), the phase noise was measured at -111.8 dBc/Hz @ 1Hz (vs spec of -110) and -132.98 dBc/Hz @ 10Hz (vs spec of -130). Phase noise was measured on a Symmetricom TSC5115A. Values other than phase noise that were also measured and certified are Frequency value, Allan Deviation, Output Level and Harmonic Distortion. Phase Noise and Allan Deviation graphs are also provided.

 

That's correct...mine did to (I have a dual Rb + OCXO Premium Select) so there were 2 complete sets of test data on the specific unit. Nice touch,....I've never seen any manufacturer in audio give specific test results of the exact unit purchased AND give the buyer the right to review the test results before shipment and cancel the order if not satisfied (this was my experience with Kenji at Cybershaft....)

[zephyr24069]

It seems that I made a mistake, stating that their OCXO Limited clock uses Rakon HSO-14 oscillator. Their site is in Japanese and I must have made a mistake in translation. The original Oscilloquartz BVA-8607 OCXO (Rakon HSO-14 predecessor) module retailed for over $10k if I'm not mistaken, so I would be surprised if HSO-14 was any cheaper. I have discovered that myself yesterday, but was waiting for a quote from Rakon on the HSO-14 OCXO module, to update my initial post (still waiting for the quote).

 

Cybershaft declined to disclose the information on what OCXO they use when I asked them yesterday, stating only that they come from Rakon.

 

The OCXO module that perfectly fits the external dimensions (which I measured on my example) and freq criteria from Rakon is their ROX5252T1 model, from their High End Telecom Discrete OCXO series:

 

Rakon - Synchronising connectivity everywhere

 

I believe they both use the same modules for both the Premium and the Limited clocks The difference beeing a better PSU in the Limited model and hand selected, best performing clocks from the lot (hence the -117dBc/Hz @ 1Hz specs for the Limited IP17 model, where Premiums only do -110dBc/Hz @ 1Hz).

 

The one thing I know from Cybershaft is that told me they did buy a LARGE quantity of whatever clock modules they using and that the particular ultra low-phase noise unit is extremely hard to come by. That may account for the price breaks he is giving his customers.

[zephyr24069]

It's two separate clocks. You get the OCXO Premium and Rubidum in one chassis. The one person I know who has this unit greatly prefers the OCXO Premium over the Rubidium and uses it the vast majority of the time.

 

Yes...that's me. The OCXO side of the dual clock from Cybershaft is superior in phase noise, etc...and more importantly causes a much more musical, not analytical and more natural sound-stage and musical experience in my system.

[zephyr24069]

That's correct...mine did to (I have a dual Rb + OCXO Premium Select) so there were 2 complete sets of test data on the specific unit. Nice touch,....I've never seen any manufacturer in audio give specific test results of the exact unit purchased AND give the buyer the right to review the test results before shipment and cancel the order if not satisfied (this was my experience with Kenji at Cybershaft....)

 

I plan shortly to install onboard the following OCXO:

 

http://www.pulsarclock.com/ds/Pulsar_Clock.pdf

 

The RMS jitter has been calculated at 20.174fs.

 

The part is about $400.

 

I'm actually very happy with the Crystek CCHD-950 which I recently installed, and is much cheaper.

 

Thank you for updating this table. The clock I'd like to see tested and added when it ships is the new Esoteric

GRANDIOSO G1. From what I can tell on the Japanese site translated, it appears to be a totally SOTA approach

to 10 Mhz master-clocking (and 22.xx Mhz master clocking if I read it correctly). No price yet but it would be

logical to assume it will come in within the normal Grandioso bands for price which would put it in league with

the Sforzato (price-wise).

[zephyr24069]

Thank you for updating this table. The clock I'd like to see tested and added when it ships is the new Esoteric

GRANDIOSO G1. From what I can tell on the Japanese site translated, it appears to be a totally SOTA approach

to 10 Mhz master-clocking (and 22.xx Mhz master clocking if I read it correctly). No price yet but it would be

logical to assume it will come in within the normal Grandioso bands for price which would put it in league with

the Sforzato (price-wise).

 

Info from Esoteric's Japan site for the G1; looks like a Rubidium implementation. I wonder what the

phase noise characteristics, etc...will be. Interestingly enough, they allow another reference oscillator

10 Mhz or 1pps master clock device to input a baseline sync for this master clock. Wow,...master clocks

for master clocks, for reclocking master clocks. You could wind up having 3 clocking devices (external 10 Mhz

ref device into G1 then into G-01) in a high-end audio setup; kind of boggles the mind and kills the wallet

all at the same time. Price in Japan is stated as 1,600,000 Yen plus tax; no telling what the US price will be

but using the Grandioso line components as a reference may be indicative.

 

Best bet is to open this link with Google Chrome to get any translation possible;

http://www.esoteric.jp/products/esoteric/g1/index.html

[zephyr24069]

Just a quick note that those who purchase a Cybershaft clock will receive a certificate of calibration with measurements that show unit purchased meets or exceeds published specs. In my case (OCXO Premium), the phase noise was measured at -111.8 dBc/Hz @ 1Hz (vs spec of -110) and -132.98 dBc/Hz @ 10Hz (vs spec of -130). Phase noise was measured on a Symmetricom TSC5115A. Values other than phase noise that were also measured and certified are Frequency value, Allan Deviation, Output Level and Harmonic Distortion. Phase Noise and Allan Deviation graphs are also provided.

 

Definitely true and Cybershaft also as noted on the calibration certificates uses a BVA 8607 as a reference in their testing in addition to the Symmetricom TSC5115A and Agilent 53132A...

 

I've done some additional testing for them of a OCXO Ultra Premium prototype with a very high caliber OP14 module and a Schottky barrier-diode enabled power supply (used to be used only on the Limited when it was produced if memory serves) and the OP14+ level clock is even better than the outstanding performance of the OCXO side of my RBOCXO-01 'dual master clock'.

 

Good time to wake up this thread with the advent of the G1 Esoteric offering hitting the shores in the US, the new K1 coming out, etc....

[zephyr24069]

I'm told that later this year Cybershaft will be looking to release new offerings based upon various testing of new designs that will increase the performance of these ultra-low phase noise/ultra-low jitter master clocks demonstrably.  I'm using a custom-built version (with some of these specific design changes I had requested a while ago) at this point (see my system page on Audiogon or under SCAudiophile on WBF and AudioAficionado that has me very impressed and looking forward to playing music on my system even more than ever before!

[zephyr24069]

That would definitely do it,..best of luck!

[zephyr24069]

On 10/20/2016 at 2:09 AM, Elberoth said:

 

But those measurements are for diffrent ranges ! One was in the 1Hz-100Hz range and the other one - 10Hz-10Khz range.

 

You cannot compare XO jitter figures in different ranges.

 

Jitter is not unlike car acceleration. The measured car acceleration (measured in seconds) only gets any meaning after you apply a speed delta to it.

 

What you just did here, was comparing car A acceleration in 0-60 range, with car B acceleration in 60-120 range. Makes absolutely no sense at all !

Absolutely agree,....I've taken the numbers presented on that other clock and cannot get to the claimed jitter values either.  With these calcs you cannot mix data from different ranges.  I am also getting >400 fs jitter values from the data presented...

[zephyr24069]

On 4/18/2016 at 10:23 AM, planner said:

It's about $2,500. Output impedance is 50 ohm. But I have been using a Oyaide 75 ohm digital cable without issues. I didn't deactivate the 75 ohm termination on the Mutec as well. Quite difficult to find a high quality 50 ohm cable these days, so I just leave it as it is.

If you are still looking for a SOTA 50-ohm cable, I have 2 1.5 meter Esoteric-Mexcel 8N-A2000 cables that I am not currently using that are downright excellent....PM me and we can talk or look at my ads on Audiogon....

[zephyr24069]

5 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Yes, it is an amazing device. Glad you are hearing the SQ benefit with your trifecta as I did.

 

 

This has not been my experience. I think the 30 days may have been true upon initial burn in, but now if I have occasion to turn it off - say for a few minutes - I notice no issues.

 

Obviously if you let it stay off for a while to where it cools off, you need the OCXO to reach thermal equilibrium, but a few hours is more than sufficient to not notice an SQ drop.

 

Maybe my ears are not that sensitive!

I agree as well,...2-4 weeks of constant burn-in was necessary to have everything sounding its best however it does NOT take the same period of time for the clock to stabilize and impact the system to optimum sound after the 3 Cybershafts I've owned to warm back up. I always turn on my OCXO clock (and did the same with an Esoteric G-0s and G-03x at various points years ago) 30 minutes to an hour or more before turning the DAC and transport on but it only take a few hours to a day for the entire system to 'come back' after any kind of downtime of more than a few hours.

[zephyr24069]

12 hours ago, flkin said:

I only received my OP14 less than 72 hours ago and was wondering about warming up time as asked the question to Kenji-san. The 30 day warm time sounded pretty extreme but was stated the included manual.

 

Glad to know it will only take a few hours to a day to return back to full strength.

That 30 days is definitely about initial break-in.  I'll have a look at the manual and we should request Cybershaft to make a few clarifications.  Having had 4 (actually, earlier post was wrong, forgot to count my Dual Rb-OCXO original) of these in my system, I can tell you that once it's all broken in that it does not take 30 days to come back after power off. I will say offer that my system including clock stays on 24x7 throughout the year except for 1-2 day or 1-2 week total down time periods when I am out of town; I absolutely agree with Cybershaft's recommendation to leave entire system and clock (turn off your tube hardware if you must or put it into standby) for best results...

[zephyr24069]

On 2/7/2018 at 9:07 PM, flkin said:

I only received my OP14 less than 72 hours ago and was wondering about warming up time as asked the question to Kenji-san. The 30 day warm time sounded pretty extreme but was stated the included manual.

 

Glad to know it will only take a few hours to a day to return back to full strength.

30 days is total break-in time for best results from a new unit though at 1 and 2 week points you'll hear your system react very positively to the maturing OCXO and circuitry.  Don't turn it off after that either; i would leave any master clock on for as long as possible. After prolonged periods of downtime (going out of town, vacation, etc...) it does take a few hours to a day or so to warm back up but you can still play music within 15-30 minutes (my advice as I did the same).  Like any other electronics and particularly since it's a master clock, you need a few days to get to its optimum operational state after prolonged downtime...

[zephyr24069]

On 2/21/2018 at 10:03 AM, ducatirider said:

I have tried to contact Cybershaft through their webform several times with no replies starting around 4 weeks ago.  Could someone be kind enough to pm me a contact email address?

 I've been off forums for quite a while due to work and life.  You can write to Kenji directly at [email protected]

[zephyr24069]

On 4/22/2018 at 12:55 AM, JimmyS said:

Just visited the English website and saw this:

 

------ Notice 25/03/2018 -------
All OCXO products were discontinued. We can not accept product reservations.
The inventory of the unit has been sold out. There is no reproduction of those products.
We apologize for it.

 

From what I understand, there are 2 things happening here;

 

- intense work on new product offerings based upon research activities he's been involved in and some investigations and prototypes built last year

- the level of quality and suitability of OCXO modules for audio purposes, not just getting a batch of OCXOs that have some level of measurements pass, takes a LOT of time and from I've learned over the last couple of years, Kenji goes through MANY OCXO units and tests each one for suitability, not just to specs but also to how they'll work in an audio playback scenario, throwing many out along the way before finding a good lot of OCXO modules to which he would attach his company's name and reputation. This in my experience is a bit different from others in the same market....

 

They'll be back with exciting news from what I'm told...a little patience is required for us right now.

[zephyr24069]

CYBERSHAFT now has high-quality OCXO modules of different levels again AND 3 new products;

 

 

Newly announced Cybershaft Platimum (single output 50-ohn or 75-ohm);
 
http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/ultimate1.html
 
or Cybershaft Limited2 (3 output 50-ohm or 75-ohm, selectable for each!);
 
http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/limited2.html

 
Can be ordered in levels OP14 up to OP20 (the higher levels are likely to be rare so best order soon!).
 
Kenji's been VERY busy and the phase noise and jitter specs on the higher end units are off the charts!

Brand new today (19-November-2018) 

 

New announced (today) audiophile-grade Clock Distributor (up to 3 outputs);
http://www.cybershaft.jp/a-products/clockdist01.html

 

*Note the addition of 50-ohm or 75-ohm as output on each individual BNC output on all of the above!
 

[zephyr24069]

Good Question....each can be ordered with different precision and phase-noise specs OCXO module levels.  Going from OP14 on up it's literally a choice between Great and Fantastic based upon my testing prior models at OP14, OP17, OP20 and OP21.

 

The difference on the 2 first in the list is literally the number of BNC outputs; do you need 1 or do you have a multi-box setup of some form is the relevant question.

 

The 3rd item is a clock distributor for 10 Mhz; if you have an existing Cybershaft clock (or any other) that puts out 10 Mhz but only has 1 output, the distributor takes that one output, preserves the signal integrity in all its parts and splits it out to 3 separate signals.  Useful if today (like me) you are using short clock cable runs with tees and terminators to accommodate 2 or 3 devices.

 

BTW (to all): The web form is not always to best to get in touch.  You may wish to try emailing at [email protected]; has always worked well for me and 2 other guys I know that regularly chat with Kenji via email.

 

Hope this helps...

[zephyr24069]

4 hours ago, flkin said:

@zephyr24069 Has there been any improvements in the power supply side in the OP17, OP20 and OP21 compared to the OP14?

 

Would any of these compare well with the Mutec Ref10?

Yes, very favorably....all on your list would, OP20 and OP21 (if available) would be my choice though OP17 and above would definitely weigh in properly.  I would send an email to Kenji re: your power supply question for details however from what I understand the answer is yes.

[zephyr24069]

When you have it up in Google Chrome, look on the list of selections on the left hand page and select 

 

"For Overseas (English)"

 

will take you to;

 

http://www.cybershaft.jp/overseas01.html

 

Any questions, let me know.

 

You can also send email directly to;

 

[email protected]

and

[email protected]

 

I would advise emailing on both currently as there have been some recent problems with inbound/outbound email

from yahoo email addresses into the cybershaft.jp domain.  Kenji is having his provider look into it.