Not another POLL SACD vs CD

[Jabs1542]

You seem to have found your answer then! Perhaps a new poll is in order asking if your conclusions are correct ;-D

 

You're poking a raccoon with a stick - stop that!

[Jabs1542]

I am getting older, and i just want to end up with the "final system" I am not going to want to tinker anymore, once i am done with this project. I won't continue my livelihood here on CA once i finish making my final system. If there is no consensus, i am just going to go with what "my best logic" suggests to me. I believe software, recordings, and other things will continue to improve, and just want the right hardware. Yes, i am trying to convince myself.

 

This has been stated several times and you seem to want to ignore it. YOU need to listen to the music YOU like on YOUR system located in YOUR home and draw you own conclusion. Do you want a sound system that sounds good to you or something you don't understand or necessarily like because 'it was highly rated' (is the goal listening enjoyment or bragging rights).

 

If you search hard you will find dozens of PCM versus DSD threads on CA resulting in hundreds of posts - there will be no consensus. It always comes down to what you like based on what you can afford. Example, while I prefer DSD our CA founder Chris C. prefers PCM through his Berkley BADA DAC, before I can dismiss his preference I have to consider that he is using an $18,000 DAC and that perhaps it does sound better than my Lampizator DSD DAC - but his DAC isn't within my budget. So does that mean PCM is better than DSD?

 

It's all about the implementation that you can afford and the availability and sound of the music you like - don't ever discount the fact that the perfect format doesn't mean squat if you can't find any suitable music to play on it.

[firedog]

Should I make a poll:

 

Will beerandmusic make another poll after he gets his "final system"?

 

and will it actually be his "final system"?

 

[firedog]

I'm trying to think if there is any concensus about anything in audiophilia...I think there isn't.

 

Wait - can't we agree that electricity in some form is needed?

 

But I'm sure someone will post telling me how I'm wrong .

[esldude]

I'm trying to think if there is any concensus about anything in audiophilia...I think there isn't.

 

Wait - can't we agree that electricity in some form is needed?

 

But I'm sure someone will post telling me how I'm wrong .

Music has progressively lost natural rhythm since leaving the hand crank Victrola. The unnatural timing of electricity is to blame. Further exacerbating the issue is having sources with separate amplifiers driving speakers. When the needle directly mechanically actuated the sound horn it was a direct mechanical path. Real instruments directly mechanically move air. Conversion from mechanical to electrical and back to mechanical air vibrations is a lossy process giving rise to a musical distortion.

 

In short we can not agree on the use of electricity. If more developmental effort had been applied to mechanisms for mechanical computers and direct actuated DACs we would not have issues like music over USB.

[firedog]

Music has progressively lost natural rhythm since leaving the hand crank Victrola. The unnatural timing of electricity is to blame. Further exacerbating the issue is having sources with separate amplifiers driving speakers. When the needle directly mechanically actuated the sound horn it was a direct mechanical path. Real instruments directly mechanically move air. Conversion from mechanical to electrical and back to mechanical air vibrations is a lossy process giving rise to a musical distortion.

 

In short we can not agree on the use of electricity. If more developmental effort had been applied to mechanisms for mechanical computers and direct actuated DACs we would not have issues like music over USB.

 

Good one....but does the Victrola count as "audiophile"? ...See, we can even argue over that.

[esldude]

Good one....but does the Victrola count as "audiophile"? ...See, we can even argue over that.

Well everything related to its time and the tech. Modern tech would really allow production of audiophile level Victrolas no problem. Better materials technology, better modeling and design of components would allow a breathtakingly good Victrola to be built.

[Paul R]

Music has progressively lost natural rhythm since leaving the hand crank Victrola. The unnatural timing of electricity is to blame. Further exacerbating the issue is having sources with separate amplifiers driving speakers. When the needle directly mechanically actuated the sound horn it was a direct mechanical path. Real instruments directly mechanically move air. Conversion from mechanical to electrical and back to mechanical air vibrations is a lossy process giving rise to a musical distortion.

 

In short we can not agree on the use of electricity. If more developmental effort had been applied to mechanisms for mechanical computers and direct actuated DACs we would not have issues like music over USB.

 

Silly! We just need to increase the conductivity of our neural synapsis to better appreciate the differences between coat hangers and mil spec multi-conductor 1000/meter interconnects. That requires electricity, and hand cranking will only devote more of the body's limited supply of the stuff to gross muscle manipulation.

 

We do need to change to 220-240v power at 400 cycles/sec though. Much more efficient, and much more likely to weed out the audiophile posers!

[esldude]

Silly! We just need to increase the conductivity of our neural synapsis to better appreciate the differences between coat hangers and mil spec multi-conductor 1000/meter interconnects. That requires electricity, and hand cranking will only devote more of the body's limited supply of the stuff to gross muscle manipulation.

 

We do need to change to 220-240v power at 400 cycles/sec though. Much more efficient, and much more likely to weed out the audiophile posers!

Please Paul,

 

Let us be realistic. Nerve signals travel around 375 mph. Electrical signals on wire near the speed of light. Speed of sound in air 750 mph. We need to maintain the two to one velocity impedance matching between sound waves and neural waves. Otherwise the excessive ratio in velocities create neural jitter.

 

One might speed up neural transmission rates, or slow down electrical propagation rates in wires. But why overcomplicate the plumbing?

[Jabs1542]

Please Paul,

 

Let us be realistic. Nerve signals travel around 375 mph. Electrical signals on wire near the speed of light. Speed of sound in air 750 mph. We need to maintain the two to one velocity impedance matching between sound waves and neural waves. Otherwise the excessive ratio in velocities create neural jitter.

 

One might speed up neural transmission rates, or slow down electrical propagation rates in wires. But why overcomplicate the plumbing?

 

Doesn't alcohol help with neural jitter?

[beerandmusic]

 

there will be no consensus. It always comes down to what you like based on what you can afford.

 

I have found some less expensive dacs sound as good or better than some more expensive dacs...same with speakers....so i don't agree that it is just based on what you can afford....jmo

Example, while I prefer DSD our CA founder Chris C. prefers PCM through his Berkley BADA DAC, before I can dismiss his preference I have to consider that he is using an $18,000 DAC and that perhaps it does sound better than my Lampizator DSD DAC - but his DAC isn't within my budget. So does that mean PCM is better than DSD?

 

Agree that does not prove that dsd is better than PCM. Better for some may be which is more lively, and to another what is more accurate. terms like better will always be debatable because it is so subjective. But i do believe that, within time, that the best capable music will be by the highest resolution recordings. the Quad dsd analog convergence is a good example.

At this point, i would agree that it is still debatable, but i do believe there will be a "growing percentage" of the next direction of where the recording/playback is going for "new recordings"

[semente]

I had a NOS filterless DAC once that would play native 16/44.1 Redbook.

It looked great but the sound was mid-fi at best.

 

R

[gmgraves]

I have several hundred JVC XRCD's from Japan and think they outperform many of the DSD's I have. K2 and XRCD show just how good 16/44.1 can be. I enjoy them immensely.

 

+1!

[Sal1950]

I much prefer the sound of the linear recording and playback Edison Cylinder.

None of all those crazy tracking and timing errors of the frisby discs.

The sound of glorious analog at it's best.

[gmgraves]

Good one....but does the Victrola count as "audiophile"? ...See, we can even argue over that.

 

Only the "Orthophonic" models of the Victrola as built by the Victor Talking Machine Company of Camden NJ can be considered "audiophile". Just ask Leopold Stokowski (oh, wait, you can't, he's dead!), he'd tell you how high the "Fi" is on one of those.

 

[Solstice380]

 

 

 

I have found some less expensive dacs sound as good or better than some more expensive dacs...same with speakers....so i don't agree that it is just based on what you can afford....jmo

 

 

Agree that does not prove that dsd is better than PCM. Better for some may be which is more lively, and to another what is more accurate. terms like better will always be debatable because it is so subjective. But i do believe that, within time, that the best capable music will be by the highest resolution recordings. the Quad dsd analog convergence is a good example.

At this point, i would agree that it is still debatable, but i do believe there will be a "growing percentage" of the next direction of where the recording/playback is going for "new recordings"

 

May I respectfully suggest that you find a group of guys who also have early onset Alzheimer's and start a conversation? That may be the best thing to do... Just skip to your own music!

[Allan F]

What do you mean by LPCM player?

Hover your mouse cursor over the underlined abbreviation and become enlightened.

[Allan F]

POLL

Has the time arrived in this thread for?

 

 

1. Yes

2. No

[esldude]

I much prefer the sound of the linear recording and playback Edison Cylinder.

None of all those crazy tracking and timing errors of the frisby discs.

The sound of glorious analog at it's best.

Well it's a subtle point. First gen tech is usually a big step forward. But there are always unforeseen little issues. Second gen usually fixes those as well as improving on strengths.

Third gen and later become about cheapening the product, turning it into a cash cow etc etc. So greed eventually takes its toll. You get excesses, features, polishing to the point of no benefit.

[Solstice380]

Reminds of the joke: The masochist said to the sadist, "hurt me, hurt me." The sadist said, "no".

[Norton]

A good source with a great selection of the Japanese discs (of all varieties) is cdjapan.co.jp.

 

You should also check out some of the Blu-Spec, SHM, platinum (instead of aluminum or gold) CDs. The Japanese are meticulous about mastering! They also offer some flat transfers to RBCD of masters used to make SACDs of re-issues. The Dire Straits mentioned before has had some HORRID remasters, SACD and LP included. The Japanese CD is sublime!

 

Japan is a haven for SACDs as well, they are really into them.

 

Thank you, I'll look into it.

[semente]

Thank you, I'll look into it.

 

Try CDJapan : Japanese Anime, Jpop, Japanese music, Game music, Japanese movie, CD, DVD

[17629]

Doesn't alcohol help with neural jitter?

 

 

Are you kidding? Have you ever seen an alcoholic use a turntable? Even the worst CD player in history has less jitter.

[esldude]

Are you kidding? Have you ever seen an alcoholic use a turntable? Even the worst CD player in history has less jitter.

 

Are we talking subjectively or objectively? Subjectively the neural jitter might seem abated. Objectively the neural jitter might be worse. I suspect however alcohol would smooth the neural jitter either way. It is after the effects wear off it may have a deleterious effect.

[esldude]

Only the "Orthophonic" models of the Victrola as built by the Victor Talking Machine Company of Camden NJ can be considered "audiophile". Just ask Leopold Stokowski (oh, wait, you can't, he's dead!), he'd tell you how high the "Fi" is on one of those.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]25336[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]25337[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]25338[/ATTACH]

 

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

That is when they switched from mechanical to electrical. That is when the slippery slope to unnatural sound began.