Apology to Schiit team and everyone here

[徐中銳]

No, you've not read what I quoted. Nor, for the latter, do you qualify ; there are still only these same six entities on my Ignore List.

So, would it be fair to say that the people who got hit with a nuclear bomb see things differently than the people who dropped it?

 

Something tells me I just made your list.

 

Firstly' date=' both my parents are Chinese.[/font']

 

Secondly, if you hold gmgraves' views, is it from rigorous studies into the matter or, simply, received wisdom ?

 

Extracting, say for example, from Wikipedia's Debate over the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki's Impact on surrender section :

« Varying opinions exist on the question of what role the bombings played in Japan's surrender: some regard the bombings as the deciding factor,[158] others see the bombs as a minor factor, and yet others assess their importance as unknowable.[159]

 

The mainstream position in the United States from 1945 through the 1960s regarded the bombings as the decisive factor in ending the war; commentators have termed this the "traditionalist" view, or pejoratively the "patriotic orthodoxy".[160]

 

Some, on the other hand, see the Soviet invasion of Manchuria as primary or decisive.[161][162][163][164] In the US, Robert Pape and Tsuyoshi Hasegawa in particular have advanced this view, which some have found convincing,[165][166] but which others have criticized.[167][168]

 

Robert Pape also argues that:

Military vulnerability, not civilian vulnerability, accounts for Japan's decision to surrender. Japan's military position was so poor that its leaders would likely have surrendered before invasion, and at roughly the same time in August 1945, even if the United States had not employed strategic bombing or the atomic bomb. Rather than concern for the costs and risks to the population, or even Japan's overall military weakness vis-a-vis the United States, the decisive factor was Japanese leaders' recognition that their strategy for holding the most important territory at issue—the home islands—could not succeed.

[169]

 

In Japanese writing about the surrender, many accounts consider the Soviet entry into the war as the primary reason or as having equal importance with the atomic bombs,[170] while others, such as the work of Sadao Asada, give primacy to the atomic bombings, particularly their impact on the emperor.[171] The primacy of the Soviet entry as a reason for surrender is a long-standing view among some Japanese historians, and has appeared in some Japanese junior high school textbooks.[171]

 

The argument about the Soviet role in Japan's surrender has a connection with the argument about the Soviet role in America's decision to drop the bomb:[163] both arguments emphasize the importance of the Soviet Union. The former suggests that Japan surrendered to the US out of fear of the Soviet Union, and the latter emphasizes that the US dropped the bombs to intimidate the Soviet Union. Soviet accounts of the ending of the war emphasised the role of the Soviet Union. The Great Soviet Encyclopedia summarised events thus:

In August 1945 American military air forces dropped atomic bombs on the cities of Hiroshima (6 August) and of Nagasaki (9 August). These bombings were not caused by military necessity, and served primarily political aims. They inflicted enormous damage on the peaceable population.

 

Fulfilling the obligations entered into by agreement with its allies and aiming for a very speedy ending of the second world war, the Soviet government on 8 August 1945 declared that from 9 August 1945 the USSR would be in a state of war against J[apan], and associated itself with the 1945 Potsdam declaration [...] of the governments of the USA, Great Britain and China of 26 July 1945, which demanded the unconditional capitulation of J[apan] and foreshadowed the bases of its subsequent demilitarization and democratization. The attack by Soviet forces, smashing the Kwantung Army and liberating Manchuria, Northern Korea, Southern Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands, led to the rapid conclusion of the war in the Far East. On 2 September 1945 J[apan] signed the act of unconditional capitulation.

[172]

 

Still others have argued that war-weary Japan would likely have surrendered regardless, due to a collapse of the economy, lack of army, food, and industrial materials, threat of internal revolution, and talk of surrender since earlier in the year, while others find this unlikely, arguing that Japan may well have, or likely would have, put up a spirited resistance.[160]

 

The Japanese historian Sadao Asada argues that the ultimate decision to surrender was a personal decision by the emperor, influenced by the atomic bombings.[171] »

Speaking of asking for forgiveness, I've heard that our President is going to Hiroshima Japan next month to apologize for the US using the atomic bomb on them! He's going to apologize to them because the US stopped a horrible war that they started! It's ridiculous, it's every kind of wrong, and if this were still the REAL United States of America, foreign policy-wise, he would be labeled a pariah if he did that. Now, if his plan is to tell the people of Hiroshima (and don't forget Nagasaki) that the US is sorry that circumstances made it necessary to take those actions, then I retract my criticisms. But somehow, I don't think that's the intention.

[bluesman]

didn't think that your comments were that different from the general cut and thrust of this site to merit an apology.

I can't disagree - sadly, we've seen far worse in far too many threads. Maybe this will be a wake up call that changes everyone's tone (including mine) for the better. Only two things have saved a few vendors and assorted others from my displeasure in recent years:

 

1. I no longer "need" as much stuff because I enjoy the stuff I have a lot more - so I buy a lot less.
   
2. I know enough not to waste energy on things that really don't make much difference.
   

For those who are concerned about a rant's effect on the target's business, relax - that's usually not a problem either. I and many others I know won't let one unhappy customer's comments influence an otherwise well considered decision to buy something. Every business has unhappy customers, and it's often the customer's unrealistic expectations that cause this. I'm still amazed at one star reviews of wonderful restaurants that we absolutely love, describing events that we cannot imagine actually happened as depicted. So my wife and I disregard the outliers, take the rest of the reviews with a grain of salt, and make our own decisions based as much as possible on facts.

[bluesman]

[sorry - duplicate post - please remove]

[bluesman]

So, would it be fair to say that the people who got hit with a nuclear bomb see things differently than the people who dropped it?

 

Saying you're sorry after murdering someone may well be sincere and heartfelt, but that's not going to stop the state from punishing you for the act, because you can't take the murder back. I realize that this is a harsh reality.

 

Firstly' date=' both my parents are Chinese. [/font']Secondly, if you hold gmgraves' views, is it from rigorous studies into the matter or, simply, received wisdom ?

I'm beginning to think we're all trapped in a Fellini movie....

 

[17629]

No' date=' you've not read what I quoted. Nor, for the latter, do you qualify ; there are still only these same six entities on my Ignore List.

 

 

Actually, I did read everything in your quote. Just not from Wikipedia. In the US, history is usually a requirement for any type of degree and its hard to miss WW2. The points you make may be true, but they're still just speculation. The fact that we bombed Japan to scare the Russians, and that it wasn't necessary because Japan was weak and close to surrender, and new Russian involvement against Japan was sure to defeat them, can only be speculation. And given the circumstances surrounding all this, speculation about how all these events could have been played out if different actions were taken, is guaranteed to be an issue among the worlds historians. I don't know if Wikipedia mentions this or not, but speculation strongly suggests that if Truman didn't bomb Japan, and the American people found out that we could have, he would have been impeached.

 

Now let me ask you a question. How does the topic of nuclear war apply to the OP's apology to Schitt and everyone else here? And would your post be the same if the company in question was Marantz, and not Schitt?

[徐中銳]

Your prejudice towards me is as ridiculous as what you've wrote, if not more so.

 

I was replying to an, arguably important, aspect of gmgraves' Post because no one else did. Your ignoble prejudice...

Actually, I did read everything in your quote. Just not from Wikipedia. In the US, history is usually a requirement for any type of degree and its hard to miss WW2. The points you make may be true, but they're still just speculation. The fact that we bombed Japan to scare the Russians, and that it wasn't necessary because Japan was weak and close to surrender, and new Russian involvement against Japan was sure to defeat them, can only be speculation. And given the circumstances surrounding all this, speculation about how all these events could have been played out if different actions were taken, is guaranteed to be an issue among the worlds historians. I don't know if Wikipedia mentions this or not, but speculation strongly suggests that if Truman didn't bomb Japan, and the American people found out that we could have, he would have been impeached.

 

Now let me ask you a question. How does the topic of nuclear war apply to the OP's apology to Schitt and everyone else here? And would your post be the same if the company in question was Marantz, and not Schitt?

[Allan F]

While it may or may not apply on a personal level, the concept of earned forgiveness is central to the beliefs of many religions, where atonement in one form or another provides the path to forgiveness for the commission of either sins or misdeeds.

[PopPop]

I see. I am not a religious person.

[Allan F]

I see. I am not a religious person.

Nor am I. But that doesn't change the fact that the concept of earned forgiveness may be important to many millions, if not billions, of people.

[firedog]

I wasn't going to respond at all in this thread, but it is important, at least to me, that I want people to believe in my sincerity.

 

At the time of the incident I didn't think there was anything wrong with what i was saying, but after re-reading, i realize now that i crossed the line a little bit with my tone, expectations, and inconsideration. Also i wasn't being considerate of those that bought the yggy, the manufacturer, or many of the readers because of my disrespect demonstrated.

 

My mom taught me as a teenager (I am 56 years old and still can learn), to try to say things in a question rather than in a critical manner. Don't expect submission, but cooperation....and one of my bosses taught me to always look for a win-win outcome in everything you do. If anyone is ever offended, besides being ineffective, you are causing pain. So in a nutshell, I am sorry for causing pain.

 

I don't think i am a narcisist by any stretch of the word, but I do know i have some personality traits (mostly being critical) that stem from my childhood. I had a very rough childhood....certainly not an excuse, and certainly a much better childhood than many, but things i can learn from and not get caught in the trap.

 

I am not going to say that I won't ever have a "tantrum" again, I just need to recognize when i do get out of line. I still have many opinions that may differ, but if I am not capable of sharing in an instrumental and effective way, there is no reason to continue.

 

I still hate that title of the thread, whether there is a question mark at the end or not (grin)...if it was even close to that, even it's price range, to me, it makes no logical sense not to offer a "smaller restocking fee" If the product is so good to sell itself.... My revelation though is understanding that a company that only manufactures stripped down PCM only dacs, where sonic strengths are subjective, debatable, or marginal at best, there may very well high rates of return from people that went from a 1K dac to a 2K dac that perhaps were hoping for more. I admit, I would be the first to admit that i would return it in a heartbeat if it was just marginally better...which we all know is subjective. I did however buy a $5K mcintosh amp, that i though was more than marginally better, where many would think a $1K amp or $500 reciever is just as good. I understand why in the audiophiiac world (which i am very novice), why a restocking fee makes sense....Also, some people may feel they may as well just bite the bullet and eat the $130 rather than turn it back in. So it does make sense...unless it truly was "the best" or if it wasn't audiophile hardware or if that wasn't your only source of income.....

 

ooops...maybe i am offending someone...

 

How can i rephrase above in a question...

Is it possible to pay shipping both directions for a "B stock"? (that won't work...everybody will want a b stock)....

How about this concept.

B stock is only for trying, not for sale. You can try for shipping costs, but if you want one, you have to buy a new one. (that might not work either, as maybe it is only marginally better and will lose sales)?

 

Am I Rambling ? ADD

 

bye

Schitt sells B stock with a full waranty but without feturn privileges. Clearly stated before you buy it.

[PopPop]

Nor am I. But that doesn't change the fact that the concept of earned forgiveness may be important to many millions, if not billions, of people.

 

Well luckily the OP didn't ask for forgiveness. [emoji1]. The argument about whether people are saved by their deeds or by god's grace is about as un-winnable as guessing at which is better, PCM or DSD. I think I should stop at that.

[17629]

Nor am I. But that doesn't change the fact that the concept of earned forgiveness may be important to many millions, if not billions, of people.

 

 

There's also one more aspect to this that I don't think anyone mentioned. Intent. Sometimes you offend someone without intending to. And for me personally, an explanation is all that's needed. If there was no intent to insult, then it was just a miss communication and an apology isn't necessary. I think that's what we have here with the OP. He probably had no intention offending anyone, but just got sucked into the back and forth, like we all sometimes do.

[17629]

Your prejudice towards me is as ridiculous as what you've wrote' date=' if not more so.[/font']

 

I was replying to an, arguably important, aspect of gmgraves' Post because no one else did. Your ignoble prejudice...

 

 

You say the same thing about everyone. The whole web site is out to get you, including the owner. You even start conspiracy theory threads and go on like a little kid about it. Grow a pair of nuts and move on already.

[徐中銳]

Hatemonger, prove it, quote to readers evidence behind your scurrilous assertions about me.

You say the same thing about everyone. The whole web site is out to get you, including the owner. You even start conspiracy theory threads and go on like a little kid about it. Grow a pair of nuts and move on already.

 

Your prejudice towards me is as ridiculous as what you've wrote' date=' if not more so.[/font']

 

I was replying to an, arguably important, aspect of gmgraves' Post because no one else did. Your ignoble prejudice...

Actually, I did read everything in your quote. Just not from Wikipedia. In the US, history is usually a requirement for any type of degree and its hard to miss WW2. The points you make may be true, but they're still just speculation. The fact that we bombed Japan to scare the Russians, and that it wasn't necessary because Japan was weak and close to surrender, and new Russian involvement against Japan was sure to defeat them, can only be speculation. And given the circumstances surrounding all this, speculation about how all these events could have been played out if different actions were taken, is guaranteed to be an issue among the worlds historians. I don't know if Wikipedia mentions this or not, but speculation strongly suggests that if Truman didn't bomb Japan, and the American people found out that we could have, he would have been impeached.

 

Now let me ask you a question. How does the topic of nuclear war apply to the OP's apology to Schitt and everyone else here? And would your post be the same if the company in question was Marantz, and not Schitt?

[beerandmusic]

There's also one more aspect to this that I don't think anyone mentioned. Intent. Sometimes you offend someone without intending to. And for me personally, an explanation is all that's needed. If there was no intent to insult, then it was just a miss communication and an apology isn't necessary. I think that's what we have here with the OP. He probably had no intention offending anyone, but just got sucked into the back and forth, like we all sometimes do.

 

I may have started out without any intent, but when i was "rubbed" (mostly by johndean?), I admit, i may have came ablaze. Also to me the yggy could never be close to the "best dac", because in my opinion it doesn't have enough features for me (namely dsd)...i think if the title of the thread was "a very good dac in the 2K range", it would have little affect on me. It clearly is being used as a marketing thread by some, both pro and con...i don't like it being marketed as even close to the best as it stands...even without hearing it. If they want to say dac with very lively and dynamic sonics, that would be fine too. The "best dac" title just annoys me.....everytime it pops up. (best dac ever, best dac ever, best dac ever......give me a break...it's just another dac). Maybe if i heard it and if i agreed, it wouldn't bother me much.

 

There may have been intent on my part to get Mr. Moffats attention. There may have been intent to "jab back at johndean" or anyone i perceived as just hyping it to be god's gift to mankind. I was caught up in it, and went overboard...i would probably have to re-read again to see what point i actually let it bother me...but there was a moment when it "tripped my trigger", and I still don't like seeing it pop to the top with that title..i wish the thread would die and fade away instead of 2 different sides just trying to hype it up or hype it down....my guess is it's nothing spectacular....I think part of my emotion is trying 10 dacs (from $200 to $1500) already and nothing even close to "OMG" like the mcintosh amp did for me....but that may be because i use software upsampling or native...i find that sounds better than hardware upsampling, and those that use the schiits recommend against software upsampling....so far software means a bigger difference than the hardware imo.

 

anyway, to summarize when i was caught up in it, there was some intent to offend (mostly at johndean) and some disrespect to Mr. Moffat by being too critical of it....it served no purpose and was not effective at anything but causing grief....for which i truly apologize....

 

I am curious how an unbiased comparison between the mytek brooklyn playing native dsd vs schiit yggy PCM would fare...I think they should set up a double-blind test between the two....and i don't just want to hear one sounds better..i want to hear how they compare...i likely would go for the one that is more warm than spicy...(I like words like depth, detail, dynamic and warm)....i am not sure i like "mani's lively" word that he chose...i want to chill not bounce off walls, but i am sure many would prefer to bounce (grin).

[johndean]

I may have started out without any intent, but when i was "rubbed" (mostly by johndean?), I admit, i may have came ablaze. Also to me the yggy could never be close to the "best dac", because in my opinion it doesn't have enough features for me (namely dsd)...i think if the title of the thread was "a very good dac in the 2K range", it would have little affect on me. It clearly is being used as a marketing thread by some, both pro and con...i don't like it being marketed as even close to the best as it stands...even without hearing it. If they want to say dac with very lively and dynamic sonics, that would be fine too. The "best dac" title just annoys me.....everytime it pops up. (best dac ever, best dac ever, best dac ever......give me a break...it's just another dac). Maybe if i heard it and if i agreed, it wouldn't bother me much.

 

There may have been intent on my part to get Mr. Moffats attention. There may have been intent to "jab back at johndean" or anyone i perceived as just hyping it to be god's gift to mankind. I was caught up in it, and went overboard...i would probably have to re-read again to see what point i actually let it bother me...but there was a moment when it "tripped my trigger", and I still don't like seeing it pop to the top with that title..i wish the thread would die and fade away instead of 2 different sides just trying to hype it up or hype it down....my guess is it's nothing spectacular....I think part of my emotion is trying 10 dacs (from $200 to $1500) already and nothing even close to "OMG" like the mcintosh amp did for me....but that may be because i use software upsampling or native...i find that sounds better than hardware upsampling, and those that use the schiits recommend against software upsampling....so far software means a bigger difference than the hardware imo.

 

anyway, to summarize when i was caught up in it, there was some intent to offend (mostly at johndean) and some disrespect to Mr. Moffat by being too critical of it....it served no purpose and was not effective at anything but causing grief....for which i truly apologize....

 

I am curious how an unbiased comparison between the mytek brooklyn playing native dsd vs schiit yggy PCM would fare...I think they should set up a double-blind test between the two.

 

so much for his apology .here you go again . Just unbelievable provide me a quote where I bad mouthed you . Provide me a quote where I say the Yggy is the best dac ever . You ain't gonna find it

[PopPop]

A general statement. It would be nice if putting someone on the ignore list actually took their posts off your view of the forum. If I ignore someone I'm not interested in reading a spoiler.

 

That is all.

[esldude]

I may have started out without any intent, but when i was "rubbed" (mostly by johndean?), I admit, i may have came ablaze. Also to me the yggy could never be close to the "best dac", because in my opinion it doesn't have enough features for me (namely dsd)...i think if the title of the thread was "a very good dac in the 2K range", it would have little affect on me. It clearly is being used as a marketing thread by some, both pro and con...i don't like it being marketed as even close to the best as it stands...even without hearing it. If they want to say dac with very lively and dynamic sonics, that would be fine too. The "best dac" title just annoys me.....everytime it pops up. (best dac ever, best dac ever, best dac ever......give me a break...it's just another dac). Maybe if i heard it and if i agreed, it wouldn't bother me much.

 

There may have been intent on my part to get Mr. Moffats attention. There may have been intent to "jab back at johndean" or anyone i perceived as just hyping it to be god's gift to mankind. I was caught up in it, and went overboard...i would probably have to re-read again to see what point i actually let it bother me...but there was a moment when it "tripped my trigger", and I still don't like seeing it pop to the top with that title..i wish the thread would die and fade away instead of 2 different sides just trying to hype it up or hype it down....my guess is it's nothing spectacular....I think part of my emotion is trying 10 dacs (from $200 to $1500) already and nothing even close to "OMG" like the mcintosh amp did for me....but that may be because i use software upsampling or native...i find that sounds better than hardware upsampling, and those that use the schiits recommend against software upsampling....so far software means a bigger difference than the hardware imo.

 

anyway, to summarize when i was caught up in it, there was some intent to offend (mostly at johndean) and some disrespect to Mr. Moffat by being too critical of it....it served no purpose and was not effective at anything but causing grief....for which i truly apologize....

 

I am curious how an unbiased comparison between the mytek brooklyn playing native dsd vs schiit yggy PCM would fare...I think they should set up a double-blind test between the two....and i don't just want to hear one sounds better..i want to hear how they compare...i likely would go for the one that is more warm than spicy...(I like words like depth, detail, dynamic and warm)....i am not sure i like "mani's lively" word that he chose...i want to chill not bounce off walls, but i am sure many would prefer to bounce (grin).

 

Try on my perspective for a moment. One not at all popular here, though not unique. Just try it on as a supposition, as a fantasy. You are not bound to it nor required to keep it. Just see how it fits.

 

I believe, with reason, that PCM and DSD are functionally transparent. As in hearing the same source through either will sound identical if not otherwise manipulated. And if you don't know which is which when you hear it.

 

I also believe competent DACs from somewhere around $500 and up will sound the same if you compare without knowing which is which. There are some DACs at all price points that do things to sound different, to have a boutique sound, those I am not referring to in this case.

 

That certainly fits with your experience. DACs from $500-1500 and at best you hear very small differences. It could be for the most part you could extend your experience up to the $10k range with mostly the same result.

 

You seem to have convinced yourself DSD is better. Yet almost never in purchased recordings are you hearing the same recording or master. Those are usually going to be why something sounds different.

 

The reports of differences fall into areas of people's expectation altering their subjective perceptions with various gear, and between recordings actually being different as presented in different formats. It fits. It means you are on a quest for the Holy Grail.

 

It also means you might as well use your Teac with a ton of features and capable of playing nearly every format. Take the time and money and aggravation saved to spend it enjoying more music in whatever format you can find it. Makes life simple. Its only your looking for a difference which is causing your frustration. Let it go and be happy.

[beerandmusic]

That certainly fits with your experience. DACs from $500-1500 and at best you hear very small differences. It could be for the most part you could extend your experience up to the $10k range with mostly the same result.

I am beginning to believe this, and my current thinking is that i shouldn't consider a more expensive dac at this time.

 

You seem to have convinced yourself DSD is better. Yet almost never in purchased recordings are you hearing the same recording or master. Those are usually going to be why something sounds different.

 

Actually, i haven't. If i did, I wouldn't have considered the Yggy, even temporarily. I lean that way because of my experience to date, but i am still open minded on the possibility.

 

I have decided on doing more extensive testing (sacd vs cd) and reading before i try another more expensive dac.

 

The reports of differences fall into areas of people's expectation altering their subjective perceptions with various gear, and between recordings actually being different as presented in different formats. It fits. It means you are on a quest for the Holy Grail.

It also means you might as well use your Teac with a ton of features and capable of playing nearly every format. Take the time and money and aggravation saved to spend it enjoying more music in whatever format you can find it. Makes life simple. Its only your looking for a difference which is causing your frustration. Let it go and be happy.

 

agreed

[beerandmusic]

so much for his apology .here you go again . Just unbelievable provide me a quote where I bad mouthed you . Provide me a quote where I say the Yggy is the best dac ever . You ain't gonna find it

 

I never said you said it was the best dac ever.

I think we both rubbed each other...you should be able to admit that too.

I have seen you rubbing several people...i am not saying i wasn't guilty.

[Allan F]

A general statement. It would be nice if putting someone on the ignore list actually took their posts off your view of the forum. If I ignore someone I'm not interested in reading a spoiler.

 

That is all.

I'm not sure that I follow what you mean. The Ignore List takes the content of original posts by persons on that list off your view of the forum. However, if someone else quotes that post in a reply, then it is seen in that context in your view of the forum. Are you saying that you would prefer that the content of those posts also not be viewable when repeated in a quote?

[speavler]

I was never clear how you were auditioning all these $2K DACs. It sounded like you were connecting them through a receiver. Also, didn't you have a thread asking for recommendations for $50 volume controls to connect to your $5K amp?

[PopPop]

I'm not sure that I follow what you mean. The Ignore List takes the content of original posts by persons on that list off your view of the forum. However, if someone else quotes that post in a reply, then it is seen in that context in your view of the forum. Are you saying that you would prefer that the content of those posts also not be viewable when repeated in a quote?

 

I see the persons avatar and name followed by a message that the post is hidden. There is also button to click that says "spoiler" that enables me to open and read the post. And yes, I would also prefer to have quoted passages hidden.

 

Meh, it's a first world problem, and it is really a very short list.

[gmgraves]

Firstly' date=' both my parents are Chinese.[/font']

 

Secondly, if you hold gmgraves' views, is it from rigorous studies into the matter or, simply, received wisdom ?

 

Extracting, say for example, from Wikipedia's Debate over the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki's Impact on surrender section :

« Varying opinions exist on the question of what role the bombings played in Japan's surrender: some regard the bombings as the deciding factor,[158] others see the bombs as a minor factor, and yet others assess their importance as unknowable.[159]

 

The mainstream position in the United States from 1945 through the 1960s regarded the bombings as the decisive factor in ending the war; commentators have termed this the "traditionalist" view, or pejoratively the "patriotic orthodoxy".[160]

 

Some, on the other hand, see the Soviet invasion of Manchuria as primary or decisive.[161][162][163][164] In the US, Robert Pape and Tsuyoshi Hasegawa in particular have advanced this view, which some have found convincing,[165][166] but which others have criticized.[167][168]

 

Robert Pape also argues that:

Military vulnerability, not civilian vulnerability, accounts for Japan's decision to surrender. Japan's military position was so poor that its leaders would likely have surrendered before invasion, and at roughly the same time in August 1945, even if the United States had not employed strategic bombing or the atomic bomb. Rather than concern for the costs and risks to the population, or even Japan's overall military weakness vis-a-vis the United States, the decisive factor was Japanese leaders' recognition that their strategy for holding the most important territory at issue—the home islands—could not succeed.

[169]

 

In Japanese writing about the surrender, many accounts consider the Soviet entry into the war as the primary reason or as having equal importance with the atomic bombs,[170] while others, such as the work of Sadao Asada, give primacy to the atomic bombings, particularly their impact on the emperor.[171] The primacy of the Soviet entry as a reason for surrender is a long-standing view among some Japanese historians, and has appeared in some Japanese junior high school textbooks.[171]

 

The argument about the Soviet role in Japan's surrender has a connection with the argument about the Soviet role in America's decision to drop the bomb:[163] both arguments emphasize the importance of the Soviet Union. The former suggests that Japan surrendered to the US out of fear of the Soviet Union, and the latter emphasizes that the US dropped the bombs to intimidate the Soviet Union. Soviet accounts of the ending of the war emphasised the role of the Soviet Union. The Great Soviet Encyclopedia summarised events thus:

In August 1945 American military air forces dropped atomic bombs on the cities of Hiroshima (6 August) and of Nagasaki (9 August). These bombings were not caused by military necessity, and served primarily political aims. They inflicted enormous damage on the peaceable population.

 

Fulfilling the obligations entered into by agreement with its allies and aiming for a very speedy ending of the second world war, the Soviet government on 8 August 1945 declared that from 9 August 1945 the USSR would be in a state of war against J[apan], and associated itself with the 1945 Potsdam declaration [...] of the governments of the USA, Great Britain and China of 26 July 1945, which demanded the unconditional capitulation of J[apan] and foreshadowed the bases of its subsequent demilitarization and democratization. The attack by Soviet forces, smashing the Kwantung Army and liberating Manchuria, Northern Korea, Southern Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands, led to the rapid conclusion of the war in the Far East. On 2 September 1945 J[apan] signed the act of unconditional capitulation.

[172]

 

Still others have argued that war-weary Japan would likely have surrendered regardless, due to a collapse of the economy, lack of army, food, and industrial materials, threat of internal revolution, and talk of surrender since earlier in the year, while others find this unlikely, arguing that Japan may well have, or likely would have, put up a spirited resistance.[160]

 

The Japanese historian Sadao Asada argues that the ultimate decision to surrender was a personal decision by the emperor, influenced by the atomic bombings.[171] »

 

Hindsight is 20-20, as they say. As an American, I see that the Japanese started WWII, and they attacket the US. They also were ruthless and cruel throughout their expanded dominions and they killed untold tens of thousands. The US policy was to invade the main islands of Japan with a ground assault in 1946. Casualties of over half a million American soldiers were anticipated, and a further million + Japanese casualties. Even after the Emperor recorded his surrender speech, members of the Army general staff ranged through the palace the night before it was to be broadcast, looking for the recording, so as to destroy it to prevent capitulation. That doesn't sound much like Japan's heart was in surrender at all. Another point is how many of us, here on this forum, would never have been born if our fathers or grandfathers had been one of those killed in the invasion! The way I see it, all of this justifies the action taken. Is it regrettable? You bet. Should we be sorry that the Japanese government's stubbornness made such a solution necessary? Absolutely! Should we apologize for ending a war that they started by using a weapon so terrible as to make continued resistance unthinkable? Absolutely not!

[mwb]

Don't sweat it man. Your apology was a voluntary gesture, and a thoughtful one at that. I have a bit of dickishness in me too, and admitting it to someone doesn't require or beg forgiveness from anyone.

 

Cheer up and carry on.

 

+1

 

I think he's being a little hard on himself. It's an Internet message board. Plus, it's not like he said Mike's mom wears combat boots.