Apology to Schiit team and everyone here

[beerandmusic]

Mr. Moffat,

 

When i first responded to the post by baldr, I didn't realize that was you. I thought it was someone else who was just posting on your behalf. Later when someone responded how great you are to respond to my lunacy (and I agree), I should have taken a breath, and realized what a fool i was and apologized right then and there. I am embarrassed the way i responded to you and that i didn't show you the respect you deserve.

 

I also wasn't getting much sleep, and had a very defensive posture besides the fact that I will be the first to admit that I am somewhat "socially awkward" to begin with. In hindsight, i realize how foolish i sounded, mostly out of my own desires and i sincerely apologize.

 

I also apologize to anyone else on the forum that I offended, it truly was not my intent when I started out on my quest.

 

I am sure all of your products are very good, and that you know your audience.

 

I do need a break from the forum.

 

My apologies to all.

[17629]

No reason to make a big deal about it. I'm still apologizing for all the things I've said over the years, and I won't be done anytime soon.

[gmgraves]

No reason to make a big deal about it. I'm still apologizing for all the things I've said over the years, and I won't be done anytime soon.

 

 

Not to mention the fact that it doesn't really do a lot of good except as a "gesture". You really can't take back what's already said/done.

[17629]

Not to mention the fact that it doesn't really do a lot of good except as a "gesture". You really can't take back what's already said/done.

 

 

Only if you don't believe him. I do.

[bluesman]

t doesn't really do a lot of good except as a "gesture". You really can't take back what's already said/done.

Aw, c'mon now - have you never changed the way you perceived or responded to things after a forced reflection on the consequences of your behavior? If not, you're either perfect or totally isolated from reality. You're obviously correct in your observation that you can't put all the spilled milk back in the bottle and drink it. But loss makes the prudent person more careful with his or her milk.

 

Only outcomes matter. If this experience results in more thought and less reflexive reaction, it's not without value to the OP and Schiit as well as to all of us. And if it's lip service, that fact will become apparent in short order. I've learned so much from my mistakes over the years that I've started making them on purpose....

 

[JW Audio]

Edited...

 

Forgiveness is earned.

[PopPop]

You forgive someone because you want to, not because they earned it. Forgiveness gives you peace of mind and let's you move on, you don't even have to tell the offender that you have forgiven them, it's irrelevant to what you chose to hold in your heart.

[wgscott]

Far more simple to just nurse a festering, soul-sucking grudge.

 

[bluesman]

You forgive someone because you want to, not because they earned it.

I agree with that - but the strength of that desire is inversely proportional to the number of transgressions, and very few are simply not remediable. One of my oldest friends owns a serious high end audio business started by his father decades ago, and they specialize in car systems (doing most of the high end dealer installations in our region and many from across the country). He's a really nice guy who handles even the most difficult customers with grace and style.......except one, who (unfortunately) is a professional colleague of mine.

 

This particular customer has at least a few loose breakers in his board. Although not the worst of his behavioral aberrations, he was always looking for a flaw in everything he bought. One of his more endearing traits was to bring his latest Benz or Porsche to my buddy for a major system, pick up the car and immediately head for the worst stretch of street in the state to see if he could make the CD skip while playing. If potholes didn't do it, he'd head for poorly graded railroad crossings - and he virtually always managed to find a way to make one CD skip at least one time. Then he'd return to complain about the installation and/or seek money back but want to keep the system. He's the only customer my friend ever told never to return. The entire price of the last system he bought there was refunded - he was told to keep the system but that he was no longer welcome as a customer. I also know of at least one car dealership that also asked him not to come back for another vehicle.

 

So I'd say that lasting forgiveness has to be earned. I'm fine offering it up front and proceeding as though it were deserved until the recipient proves that it wasn't.

[PopPop]

I can't earn earn someone's forgiveness. They either feel it or express it or they don't. Changing my behavior has nothing to do with in my opinion. If someone offends me often enough I can forgive their weakness and simply ignore them and move on.

 

My mother taught me that no one is unforgivable. LOL

[JW Audio]

My statement above should have been qualified. My apologies.

Unless, for the past month he has been completely out of character, he will continue his narcissistic behavior.

This was not a one time thing. It was over and over and... you get the picture.

Being contrary in as many posts and to as many fine people trying to help him suggests a deeper problem. Not being cruel, just a reflection of his way of delivery.

After some time... (The earned part), forgiveness will come from everyone. BUT... Only time will tell.

[Ajax]

Not to mention the fact that it doesn't really do a lot of good except as a "gesture". You really can't take back what's already said/done.

 

Hi George,

 

That's a tough school you were bought up in. You've never shot from the hip? I did it more often than I would like to admit as a kid / young man but with age less so. Maybe I've matured but more likely I've just slowed down.

 

In any case if you re-read beerandmusic's post it exhibits both regret and honesty, which leads me to believe that his apology is sincere. At the end of the day that's what counts.... I made mistake and I am sorry. End of story.

[PopPop]

I agree with that - but the strength of that desire is inversely proportional to the number of transgressions, and very few are simply not remediable. One of my oldest friends owns a serious high end audio business started by his father decades ago, and they specialize in car systems (doing most of the high end dealer installations in our region and many from across the country). He's a really nice guy who handles even the most difficult customers with grace and style.......except one, who (unfortunately) is a professional colleague of mine.

 

This particular customer has at least a few loose breakers in his board. Although not the worst of his behavioral aberrations, he was always looking for a flaw in everything he bought. One of his more endearing traits was to bring his latest Benz or Porsche to my buddy for a major system, pick up the car and immediately head for the worst stretch of street in the state to see if he could make the CD skip while playing. If potholes didn't do it, he'd head for poorly graded railroad crossings - and he virtually always managed to find a way to make one CD skip at least one time. Then he'd return to complain about the installation and/or seek money back but want to keep the system. He's the only customer my friend ever told never to return. The entire price of the last system he bought there was refunded - he was told to keep the system but that he was no longer welcome as a customer. I also know of at least one car dealership that also asked him not to come back for another vehicle.

 

So I'd say that lasting forgiveness has to be earned. I'm fine offering it up front and proceeding as though it were deserved until the recipient proves that it wasn't.

 

I see your point, there are some people who test us a lot harder than others.

[esldude]

Far more simple to just nurse a festering, soul-sucking grudge.

 

Clear headed reply as usual.

 

I suppose after a sufficient length of time you'll stop by the Klingon greeting card store and turn to thoughts of how best to serve up revenge for what hasn't been forgiven.

 

 

Note: this is not to say the above represents my own thoughts. I am willing to believe the OP is sincere.

[bluesman]

I suppose after a sufficient length of time you'll stop by the Klingon greeting card store and turn to thoughts of how best to serve up revenge for what hasn't been forgiven.

This kind of interaction eventually works out fine for reasonable people regardless of the sincerity or longevity of the behavior in question. The wise get joy from everyone - some because you're with them and others because you're not.

[gmgraves]

Hi George,

 

That's a tough school you were bought up in. You've never shot from the hip? I did it more often than I would like to admit as a kid / young man but with age less so. Maybe I've matured but more likely I've just slowed down.

 

In any case if you re-read beerandmusic's post it exhibits both regret and honesty, which leads me to believe that his apology is sincere. At the end of the day that's what counts.... I made mistake and I am sorry. End of story.

 

 

Yeah, I suspect he's sincere. Certainly seems that way to me. OTOH, it doesn't change the fact that what was said was said, and what has been done has been done. Saying you're sorry after murdering someone may well be sincere and heartfelt, but that's not going to stop the state from punishing you for the act, because you can't take the murder back. I realize that this is a harsh reality. If someone does me harm, either by words or deeds, and then apologizes for those words or deeds, I might accept that apology and forgive them, and of course, that mollifies them and let's them "off the hook", as it were, but it still doesn't change anything.

 

I believe that the Duke got it right when he advised people to "Never apologize, Pilgrim, it's a sign o' weakness!"

 

Speaking of asking for forgiveness, I've heard that our President is going to Hiroshima Japan next month to apologize for the US using the atomic bomb on them! He's going to apologize to them because the US stopped a horrible war that they started! It's ridiculous, it's every kind of wrong, and if this were still the REAL United States of America, foreign policy-wise, he would be labeled a pariah if he did that. Now, if his plan is to tell the people of Hiroshima (and don't forget Nagasaki) that the US is sorry that circumstances made it necessary to take those actions, then I retract my criticisms. But somehow, I don't think that's the intention.

[Norton]

Not sure what the guy's apologising for - are you expected to apologise if you criticise any DAC, or just those made by site sponsors?

[bluesman]

I believe that the Duke got it right when he advised people to "Never apologize, Pilgrim, it's a sign o' weakness!"

Of course, the Duke didn't say that - Nathan Brittles did. For me, an imaginary character is a poor source of sound strategies for living.

[gmgraves]

Of course, the Duke didn't say that - Nathan Brittles did. For me, an imaginary character is a poor source of sound strategies for living.

 

Well, yeah, the character, Nathan Brittles in "She Wore A Yellow Ribbon" did say that. But somebody wrote it, and it sounded good coming from the Duke!

[beerandmusic]

Not sure what the guy's apologising for - are you expected to apologise if you criticise any DAC, or just those made by site sponsors?

 

I wasn't going to respond at all in this thread, but it is important, at least to me, that I want people to believe in my sincerity.

 

At the time of the incident I didn't think there was anything wrong with what i was saying, but after re-reading, i realize now that i crossed the line a little bit with my tone, expectations, and inconsideration. Also i wasn't being considerate of those that bought the yggy, the manufacturer, or many of the readers because of my disrespect demonstrated.

 

My mom taught me as a teenager (I am 56 years old and still can learn), to try to say things in a question rather than in a critical manner. Don't expect submission, but cooperation....and one of my bosses taught me to always look for a win-win outcome in everything you do. If anyone is ever offended, besides being ineffective, you are causing pain. So in a nutshell, I am sorry for causing pain.

 

I don't think i am a narcisist by any stretch of the word, but I do know i have some personality traits (mostly being critical) that stem from my childhood. I had a very rough childhood....certainly not an excuse, and certainly a much better childhood than many, but things i can learn from and not get caught in the trap.

 

I am not going to say that I won't ever have a "tantrum" again, I just need to recognize when i do get out of line. I still have many opinions that may differ, but if I am not capable of sharing in an instrumental and effective way, there is no reason to continue.

 

I still hate that title of the thread, whether there is a question mark at the end or not (grin)...if it was even close to that, even it's price range, to me, it makes no logical sense not to offer a "smaller restocking fee" If the product is so good to sell itself.... My revelation though is understanding that a company that only manufactures stripped down PCM only dacs, where sonic strengths are subjective, debatable, or marginal at best, there may very well high rates of return from people that went from a 1K dac to a 2K dac that perhaps were hoping for more. I admit, I would be the first to admit that i would return it in a heartbeat if it was just marginally better...which we all know is subjective. I did however buy a $5K mcintosh amp, that i though was more than marginally better, where many would think a $1K amp or $500 reciever is just as good. I understand why in the audiophiiac world (which i am very novice), why a restocking fee makes sense....Also, some people may feel they may as well just bite the bullet and eat the $130 rather than turn it back in. So it does make sense...unless it truly was "the best" or if it wasn't audiophile hardware or if that wasn't your only source of income.....

 

ooops...maybe i am offending someone...

 

How can i rephrase above in a question...

Is it possible to pay shipping both directions for a "B stock"? (that won't work...everybody will want a b stock)....

How about this concept.

B stock is only for trying, not for sale. You can try for shipping costs, but if you want one, you have to buy a new one. (that might not work either, as maybe it is only marginally better and will lose sales)?

 

Am I Rambling ? ADD

 

bye

[beerandmusic]

I think apologizing is more for one who apologizes than to those they are apologizing to.

I think it takes a great deal more strength to apologize than not to apologize, but you improve your humility and helps you heal.

[Norton]

I wasn't going to respond at all in this thread, but it is important, at least to me, that I want people to believe in my sincerity.

 

At the time of the incident I didn't think there was anything wrong with what i was saying, but after re-reading, i realize now that i crossed the line a little bit with my tone, expectations, and inconsideration. Also i wasn't being considerate of those that bought the yggy, the manufacturer, or many of the readers because of my disrespect demonstrated.

 

My mom taught me as a teenager (I am 56 years old and still can learn), to try to say things in a question rather than in a critical manner. Don't expect submission, but cooperation....and one of my bosses taught me to always look for a win-win outcome in everything you do. If anyone is ever offended, besides being ineffective, you are causing pain. So in a nutshell, I am sorry for causing pain.

 

I don't think i am a narcisist by any stretch of the word, but I do know i have some personality traits (mostly being critical) that stem from my childhood. I had a very rough childhood....certainly not an excuse, and certainly a much better childhood than many, but things i can learn from and not get caught in the trap.

 

FWIW you seem pretty sincere to me, just didn't think that your comments were that different from the general cut and thrust of this site to merit an apology.

[PopPop]

I wasn't going to respond at all in this thread, but it is important, at least to me, that I want people to believe in my sincerity.

 

At the time of the incident I didn't think there was anything wrong with what i was saying, but after re-reading, i realize now that i crossed the line a little bit with my tone, expectations, and inconsideration. Also i wasn't being considerate of those that bought the yggy, the manufacturer, or many of the readers because of my disrespect demonstrated.

 

My mom taught me as a teenager (I am 56 years old and still can learn), to try to say things in a question rather than in a critical manner. Don't expect submission, but cooperation....and one of my bosses taught me to always look for a win-win outcome in everything you do. If anyone is ever offended, besides being ineffective, you are causing pain. So in a nutshell, I am sorry for causing pain.

 

I don't think i am a narcisist by any stretch of the word, but I do know i have some personality traits (mostly being critical) that stem from my childhood. I had a very rough childhood....certainly not an excuse, and certainly a much better childhood than many, but things i can learn from and not get caught in the trap.

 

I am not going to say that I won't ever have a "tantrum" again, I just need to recognize when i do get out of line. I still have many opinions that may differ, but if I am not capable of sharing in an instrumental and effective way, there is no reason to continue.

 

I still hate that title of the thread, whether there is a question mark at the end or not (grin)...if it was even close to that, even it's price range, to me, it makes no logical sense not to offer a "smaller restocking fee" If the product is so good to sell itself.... My revelation though is understanding that a company that only manufactures stripped down PCM only dacs, where sonic strengths are subjective, debatable, or marginal at best, there may very well high rates of return from people that went from a 1K dac to a 2K dac that perhaps were hoping for more. I admit, I would be the first to admit that i would return it in a heartbeat if it was just marginally better...which we all know is subjective. I did however buy a $5K mcintosh amp, that i though was more than marginally better, where many would think a $1K amp or $500 reciever is just as good. I understand why in the audiophiiac world (which i am very novice), why a restocking fee makes sense....Also, some people may feel they may as well just bite the bullet and eat the $130 rather than turn it back in. So it does make sense...unless it truly was "the best" or if it wasn't audiophile hardware or if that wasn't your only source of income.....

 

ooops...maybe i am offending someone...

 

How can i rephrase above in a question...

Is it possible to pay shipping both directions for a "B stock"? (that won't work...everybody will want a b stock)....

How about this concept.

B stock is only for trying, not for sale. You can try for shipping costs, but if you want one, you have to buy a new one. (that might not work either, as maybe it is only marginally better and will lose sales)?

 

Am I Rambling ? ADD

 

bye

 

Don't sweat it man. Your apology was a voluntary gesture, and a thoughtful one at that. I have a bit of dickishness in me too, and admitting it to someone doesn't require or beg forgiveness from anyone.

 

Cheer up and carry on.

[徐中銳]

Speaking of asking for forgiveness, I've heard that our President is going to Hiroshima Japan next month to apologize for the US using the atomic bomb on them! He's going to apologize to them because the US stopped a horrible war that they started! It's ridiculous, it's every kind of wrong, and if this were still the REAL United States of America, foreign policy-wise, he would be labeled a pariah if he did that. Now, if his plan is to tell the people of Hiroshima (and don't forget Nagasaki) that the US is sorry that circumstances made it necessary to take those actions, then I retract my criticisms. But somehow, I don't think that's the intention.

 

Firstly, both my parents are Chinese.

 

Secondly, if you hold gmgraves' views, is it from rigorous studies into the matter or, simply, received wisdom ?

 

Extracting, say for example, from Wikipedia's Debate over the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki's Impact on surrender section :

« Varying opinions exist on the question of what role the bombings played in Japan's surrender: some regard the bombings as the deciding factor,[158] others see the bombs as a minor factor, and yet others assess their importance as unknowable.[159]

 

The mainstream position in the United States from 1945 through the 1960s regarded the bombings as the decisive factor in ending the war; commentators have termed this the "traditionalist" view, or pejoratively the "patriotic orthodoxy".[160]

 

Some, on the other hand, see the Soviet invasion of Manchuria as primary or decisive.[161][162][163][164] In the US, Robert Pape and Tsuyoshi Hasegawa in particular have advanced this view, which some have found convincing,[165][166] but which others have criticized.[167][168]

 

Robert Pape also argues that:

Military vulnerability, not civilian vulnerability, accounts for Japan's decision to surrender. Japan's military position was so poor that its leaders would likely have surrendered before invasion, and at roughly the same time in August 1945, even if the United States had not employed strategic bombing or the atomic bomb. Rather than concern for the costs and risks to the population, or even Japan's overall military weakness vis-a-vis the United States, the decisive factor was Japanese leaders' recognition that their strategy for holding the most important territory at issue—the home islands—could not succeed.

[169]

 

In Japanese writing about the surrender, many accounts consider the Soviet entry into the war as the primary reason or as having equal importance with the atomic bombs,[170] while others, such as the work of Sadao Asada, give primacy to the atomic bombings, particularly their impact on the emperor.[171] The primacy of the Soviet entry as a reason for surrender is a long-standing view among some Japanese historians, and has appeared in some Japanese junior high school textbooks.[171]

 

The argument about the Soviet role in Japan's surrender has a connection with the argument about the Soviet role in America's decision to drop the bomb:[163] both arguments emphasize the importance of the Soviet Union. The former suggests that Japan surrendered to the US out of fear of the Soviet Union, and the latter emphasizes that the US dropped the bombs to intimidate the Soviet Union. Soviet accounts of the ending of the war emphasised the role of the Soviet Union. The Great Soviet Encyclopedia summarised events thus:

In August 1945 American military air forces dropped atomic bombs on the cities of Hiroshima (6 August) and of Nagasaki (9 August). These bombings were not caused by military necessity, and served primarily political aims. They inflicted enormous damage on the peaceable population.

 

Fulfilling the obligations entered into by agreement with its allies and aiming for a very speedy ending of the second world war, the Soviet government on 8 August 1945 declared that from 9 August 1945 the USSR would be in a state of war against J[apan], and associated itself with the 1945 Potsdam declaration [...] of the governments of the USA, Great Britain and China of 26 July 1945, which demanded the unconditional capitulation of J[apan] and foreshadowed the bases of its subsequent demilitarization and democratization. The attack by Soviet forces, smashing the Kwantung Army and liberating Manchuria, Northern Korea, Southern Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands, led to the rapid conclusion of the war in the Far East. On 2 September 1945 J[apan] signed the act of unconditional capitulation.

[172]

 

Still others have argued that war-weary Japan would likely have surrendered regardless, due to a collapse of the economy, lack of army, food, and industrial materials, threat of internal revolution, and talk of surrender since earlier in the year, while others find this unlikely, arguing that Japan may well have, or likely would have, put up a spirited resistance.[160]

 

The Japanese historian Sadao Asada argues that the ultimate decision to surrender was a personal decision by the emperor, influenced by the atomic bombings.[171] »

[17629]

So, would it be fair to say that the people who got hit with a nuclear bomb see things differently than the people who dropped it?

 

Something tells me I just made your list.