Do the rich guys like DSD or PCM?

[17629]

do you really want to debate with me about my opinion. i got the impression you didn't even want to talk with me, and i am comfortable dropping the topic. I think i have got all the information i wanted at this time on this topic. If you "really" want to continue to discuss with me, i will offer my honest opinion. but more than likely it will just upset you or others, and i am not very charismatic. I don't want to upset anyone. i would rather just drop it than to share my opinions that may not be the same as yours. I won't get upset or take it personal if someone else has different opinions than me. I am also open to change my opinion...but i really don't want to debate what i believe some owners reasoning is for doing what they do. I would be happy to ask him questions if he was here and didn't mind me asking him questions. If i had a first hand conversation with him, i would be more open to his opinion, than what someone else states is his current opinion.

 

In short, i am happy to offer my opinion on anything if someone was open to listening to it without getting bent out of shape or feel the need to resort to name calling or worse. I am also perfectly content with agreeing to disagree on any subject without taking things personal.

 

The only thing i have a real issue with is if someone purposely tries to cause grief to others.

 

Lastly, I apologize to you or anyone I may have offended. It certainly was not on purpose unless i felt i was jabbing back after someone jabs me first, and I even apologize for that. This life is too short and there is too much other chaos going on in the world for that sort of nonsense.

 

You miss the point every time. Its not about offending me, or anyone else. You ask question after question and conduct a bunch of polls, but when someone gives you an answer that you don't like, you get an attitude.

 

"I am content with my "screwed logic"."

 

Then why bother asking the questions in the first place? You have your mind made up already. What gets people mad at you is that your logic on most of these issues makes sense only if you don't know anything about audio. To some of us that have a bit more knowledge and experience than you, your logic is screwed. The posters that respond with views that are different than yours get labeled as trolls. My advice to you would be to learn enough about audio so that you can at least label others with some degree of accuracy.

[skatbelt]

The posters that respond with views that are different than yours get labeled as trolls.

 

Or are completely ignored.

[JW Audio]

You miss the point every time. Its not about offending me, or anyone else. You ask question after question and conduct a bunch of polls, but when someone gives you an answer that you don't like, you get an attitude.

 

"I am content with my "screwed logic"."

 

Then why bother asking the questions in the first place? You have your mind made up already. What gets people mad at you is that your logic on most of these issues makes sense only if you don't know anything about audio. To some of us that have a bit more knowledge and experience than you, your logic is screwed. The posters that respond with views that are different than yours get labeled as trolls. My advice to you would be to learn enough about audio so that you can at least label others with some degree of accuracy.

 

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[YashN]

To some of us that have a bit more knowledge and experience than you, your logic is screwed. The posters that respond with views that are different than yours get labeled as trolls. My advice to you would be to learn enough about audio so that you can at least label others with some degree of accuracy.

 

beerandmusic is a ignorant troll himself.

[beerandmusic]

You miss the point every time. Its not about offending me, or anyone else. You ask question after question and conduct a bunch of polls, but when someone gives you an answer that you don't like, you get an attitude.

 

"I am content with my "screwed logic"."

 

Then why bother asking the questions in the first place? You have your mind made up already. What gets people mad at you is that your logic on most of these issues makes sense only if you don't know anything about audio. To some of us that have a bit more knowledge and experience than you, your logic is screwed. The posters that respond with views that are different than yours get labeled as trolls. My advice to you would be to learn enough about audio so that you can at least label others with some degree of accuracy.

 

Again, i will ask, do you want me to continue to debate, or would you prefer that i drop it.

And if you say debate, then i will be happy to continue, but only if you can continue without having to resort to name calling or threats. I will quit calling people trolls, but i will just ignore them. A troll is off topic and adds nothing. such as the statement above.

Just tell me if you wish to continue or not. I will not ignore any on topic post.

[beerandmusic]

You miss the point every time. Its not about offending me, or anyone else. You ask question after question and conduct a bunch of polls, but when someone gives you an answer that you don't like, you get an attitude.

 

"I am content with my "screwed logic"."

 

Then why bother asking the questions in the first place? You have your mind made up already. What gets people mad at you is that your logic on most of these issues makes sense only if you don't know anything about audio. To some of us that have a bit more knowledge and experience than you, your logic is screwed. The posters that respond with views that are different than yours get labeled as trolls. My advice to you would be to learn enough about audio so that you can at least label others with some degree of accuracy.

 

I will presume you want me to continue otherwise you wouldn't have replied again.

Again, i will re-itterate that I am not the most charismatic and may not know how to say things in a socially accepted manner...so please take that into consideration, and try not to take things personal....One of my best friends coined the phrase, that I am happy to accept. is that I am a "nice asshole". Most people that personally know me respect me, but know my shortcomings. I believe in honesty over all. If my wife asks if i like her dress, i will be honest. I won't say what i think she wants me to say. That is just a little background. If people want an honest opinion from someone they can trust will give an honest opinion, they know they can get it from me.

 

I am content with my "screwed logic" because I am confident in my intellect.

 

Why do i ask to begin with. because Logic is not knowledge, my mind was not made up already(although it is closer to being made up now), and i do consider myself more open minded than most....that is why I asked to begin with.

 

Instead of making broad accusations, please state specific examples.

If anyone thinks my logic is screwed, because i am not going to decide on a "PCM ONLY" dac just because a "PCM ONLY" dac manufacturer says PCM is better, then i will just say I am happy to agree to disagree with them, that the opinion that "PCM IS BETTER" by itself will have no relevance on my buying decision.

 

Please name any other specific examples. If i was wrong, i will be the first to admit i was wrong.

[master]

What @17629 is trying to say is when you ask a question then also be ready to accept the answers.

 

It has nothing to do with your manner, brashness, etiquette, etc.

 

When you ask in a public forum, yes there will always be folks with zero experience who will still insist on giving advice for every topic under the sun and you must learn to disregard and block them... but you will also come across folks who are genuinely willing to help and who have real world experience in actually listening to all manner of equipment and formats, and it makes a lot of sense to pay attention to not only these folks, but more importantly to what they are saying. Accepting someone because they are saying what you like to hear and disregarding someone because you don't like or agree with what they are saying is not the right way to make any decisions, especially buying decisions.

[beerandmusic]

I came into this open minded, wondering if some of the best PCM only dacs (e.g. yggy), is better than some of the best PCM/DSD dacs, and if PCM on an yggy can sound better than DSD on a 2K+ dac (e.g. mytek), and if i bought into a PCM only dac if i would regret not having dsd capability.

 

I planned on discounting any opinions that have no interest in even trying DSD, or that haven't done personal testing.

 

I also know there would be bias by owners of one or the other. I also believe there are probably many people in this forum that have bias that may be directly influenced by manufacturers in one way or another.

 

To me, the most valuable inputs would be from hobbyists without any bias, that have expensive dacs that have both pcm and dsd and have done some extensive testing. Those are the people's opinions that will mean the most to me.

 

Since i started down this journey, i have learned a few things in other threads that have most influenced my decisions.

[beerandmusic]

What @17629 is trying to say is when you ask a question then also be ready to accept the answers.

 

It has nothing to do with your manner, brashness, etiquette, etc.

 

When you ask in a public forum, yes there will always be folks with zero experience who will still insist on giving advice for every topic under the sun and you must learn to disregard and block them... but you will also come across folks who are genuinely willing to help and who have real world experience in actually listening to all manner of equipment and formats, and it makes a lot of sense to pay attention to not only these folks, but more importantly to what they are saying. Accepting someone because they are saying what you like to hear and disregarding someone because you don't like or agree with what they are saying is not the right way to make any decisions, especially buying decisions.

 

Agree with this all, and in my opinion i did not disregard any opinion on topic that i didn't agree with (giving it appropriate weight using my logic as anyone does).

 

I have listened to many helpful people, and I have learned some things, that did influence what my final decision will likely be. If you want i will share those individuals posts (from other threads) here.

[17629]

Agree with this all, and in my opinion i did not disregard any opinion on topic that i didn't agree with (giving it appropriate weight using my logic as anyone does).

 

I have listened to many helpful people, and I have learned some things, that did influence what my final decision will likely be. If you want i will share those individuals posts (from other threads) here.

 

 

No one says that you have to agree with anyone's opinion, including mine. You also don't have to have an attitude and label people trolls who are just trying to help. That said, you've said several times that your intention was not to insult anyone. I believe you, so why don't we just leave it at that and move on.

[beerandmusic]

No one says that you have to agree with anyone's opinion, including mine. You also don't have to have an attitude and label people trolls who are just trying to help. That said, you've said several times that your intention was not to insult anyone. I believe you, so why don't we just leave it at that and move on.

 

Thanks for believing me. That means a lot to me, as it is sincere.

I learned a long time ago, something that i need to remember...to accept someone, does not mean to accept their actions. I believe that probably the vast majority of the people here mean well, but we all, including myself, succumb to actions contradicting our intentions. I will try not to label people trolls, and instead label their responses, where appropriate as a troll response, or better yet, to simply ignore those responses....it is only my ego that gets in the way of my ability to ignore troll responses, and just makes me a lesser person in stooping to such levels.

[Sal1950]

Agree with this all, and in my opinion i did not disregard any opinion on topic that i didn't agree with (giving it appropriate weight using my logic as anyone does).

 

I have listened to many helpful people, and I have learned some things, that did influence what my final decision will likely be. If you want i will share those individuals posts (from other threads) here.

 

I would highly suggest you quit obsessing over any minor perceived differences between PCM and DSD recordings. In the end it makes very little difference as the sound quality between any 2 recordings is enormously wider than any difference in the formats SQ. Your two polls on the subject has raised "much ado about very little".

Either buy one of each DACs or a one size fits all and move on. Spend your $ on acquiring and enjoying amazing RECORDINGS. That's why you supposedly got involved in Hi Fi to begin with.

Don't let your Audiophilia Nervosa distort your perspective on what's really important.

[beerandmusic]

I would highly suggest you quit obsessing over any minor perceived differences between PCM and DSD recordings.

IMHO i have heard more enjoyable differences between PCM and DSD on the same dac than i hear differences between different DACs in the same price range, but i am considering a larger budget DAC and, before i spend the money, I am curious if others have heard the same. I am clearly not alone. I am not obsessing writing these messages any more than you are obsessing responding.

[semente]

Perhaps my DIY PCM DAC is much better than average ? It easily outperformed an expensive modified Bricasti M1 DAC at a recent listening session. Others had already judged the modified Bricasti M1 to be better than a standard Bricasti M1 about a week earlier.

Many of you appear to be talking about DACs worth no more than $2K .

 

My experience with good DIY designs matches yours.

Besides, all commercial products can be improved, even the best ones.

 

R

[Sal1950]

My experience with good DIY designs matches yours.

Besides, all commercial products can be improved, even the best ones.

 

R

Ya mean $12K for a DSC Debussy still won't get you SOTA? LOL

[semente]

Ya mean $12K for a DSC Debussy still won't get you SOTA? LOL

 

Sorry, I'm blind to brand names and fad (magazine fabricated or otherwise)...

Besides, when it comes to audio there really isn't such a correlation between price and performance.

 

R

[AudioDoctor]

Neither, I just pay to have the band come over to my house and play...

 

edit: What kind of ridiculous post is this anyways?

[17629]

Ya mean $12K for a DSC Debussy still won't get you SOTA? LOL

 

 

Absolutely not. You need the Elgar with the matching transport and upsampler. Last time I checked all 3 pieces went for about 35k plus tax. ($3100 where I live). Also, DCS is the knock off from China. Its just a re-branded $150 Sony DVD player. The real ones are labeled dCS.

[Sal1950]

edit: What kind of ridiculous post is this anyways?

 

Ya got me hangin on that? But it has turned out to be a good bit of fun.

[beerandmusic]

Ya got me hangin on that? But it has turned out to be a good bit of fun.

 

All my threads are entertaining....if nothing else, its fun to make fun of people when things are boring, and i will always be the first to volunteer... I have a lot fat people jokes too. (grin)