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Do the rich guys like DSD or PCM?


PCM OR DSD  

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I have been to a couple CES shows in vegas, and have heard some of the best sounding systems, and every time i thought i heard something that sounded truly extraordinaire, it was DSD.

 

Proabably means you basically prefer the sound of DSD. So just go for that within the limits of your budget. Buy stuff that is better at DSD, and listen with music in DSD or upsampled to DSD.

 

If you are never going to be able to afford "the best", then how the best sounds isn't so relevant. Your experience, by definition, will be different. Has it never occurred to you that a possible scenario is that either DSD or PCM sounds best at the very top end, but not with equipment mortals can afford? And in any case, even people with "the best" won't agree. Not on PCM vs DSD and not even on what "the best" is.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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Proabably means you basically prefer the sound of DSD. So just go for that within the limits of your budget. Buy stuff that is better at DSD, and listen with music in DSD or upsampled to DSD.

 

If you are never going to be able to afford "the best", then how the best sounds isn't so relevant. Your experience, by definition, will be different. Has it never occurred to you that a possible scenario is that either DSD or PCM sounds best at the very top end, but not with equipment mortals can afford? And in any case, even people with "the best" won't agree. Not on PCM vs DSD and not even on what "the best" is.

 

i think technology will improve, engineering costs will go down, items will be mass produced, and ultimately the end product will come down. I mean, can't we say today that we can buy some DSD dacs under $1K that sound better than some $10K dacs of 10 years ago?

 

The purpose of the poll isn't what can i afford, the purpose of the poll is of those that can afford the best, do they believe that the best DSD material is capable of sounding better than the best PCM material.

 

By the looks of the poll so far, besides those that said (who cares about dsd, which i discount as irrelavant), the answer seems that the clear majority so far, is that the best dsd material is capable of sounding better than the best pcm material.

 

I am trying to get an unbiased opinion of those that aren't simply die-hard schiit lovers, or people that don't want anything to do with DSD, that are more open minded to finding the best at any cost, marketing, politics, and convenience aside.

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So how does that make "audiophile" and "wealth" mutually exclusive?

 

Also, is it necessary to make gratuitous ad hominem remarks about other posters? Please wait until someone's insulted your cables.

 

--David

 

What cables? I own cables from all major brands. That way if you insult my cables, I can say that I have yours too, and the ones you just insulted are better because I have them both.

 

"So how does that make "audiophile" and "wealth" mutually exclusive?"

 

Because if you read my initial post, it made for good humor.

 

"Silly question. There are no rich audiophiles."

 

Meaning that an audiophile can never be rich because they spend all of their money on audio equipment. I can see how the Stereophile guy didn't get it, but the rest of you?

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i think technology will improve, engineering costs will go down, items will be mass produced, and ultimately the end product will come down. I mean, can't we say today that we can buy some DSD dacs under $1K that sound better than some $10K dacs of 10 years ago?

 

The purpose of the poll isn't what can i afford, the purpose of the poll is of those that can afford the best, do they believe that the best DSD material is capable of sounding better than the best PCM material.

 

By the looks of the poll so far, besides those that said (who cares about dsd, which i discount as irrelavant), the answer seems that the clear majority so far, is that the best dsd material is capable of sounding better than the best pcm material.

 

I am trying to get an unbiased opinion of those that aren't simply die-hard schiit lovers, or people that don't want anything to do with DSD, that are more open minded to finding the best at any cost, marketing, politics, and convenience aside.

 

 

I understand and respect why you're asking these types of questions, but you're still missing the point as to why you're not getting the answers you seek.

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I am trying to get an unbiased opinion of those that aren't simply die-hard schiit lovers, or people that don't want anything to do with DSD, that are more open minded to finding the best at any cost, marketing, politics, and convenience aside.

 

It would appear from your comments in the various similar polls that you have started recently, that despite your protestations to the contrary,you have already made up your mind on this and other issues.

 

What next, a Curated thread where you can direct the outcome ?

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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It would appear from your comments in the various similar polls that you have started recently, that despite your protestations to the contrary,you have already made up your mind on this and other issues.

 

What next, a Curated thread where you can direct the outcome ?

 

wrong again. No i have not made up my mind...because i clearly haven't tried everything there is to try.

Although i have tried many things.

 

If my mind was made up, i wouldn't have just bought a schiit a couple days ago (probably won't recieve for another few days or even open for another week).

Every dac to date i have tried though, i have been less than impressed...i have had bigger impression in amps than dacs...but the schiit is supposedly a different creature, so willing to give it a try. I doubt you will find many people more open minded than me.

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I agree, wealth is certainly a subjective word.

I use it in the context of someone who wouldn't think twice about spending 5K for a dac instead of 1K for a dac if they thought they heard even a miniscule improvement...

I know a few people like that (not a statistically useful number) but I do not see a consensus. In fact, they seem just like everyone else.

Kal Rubinson

Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile

 

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I doubt you will find many people more open minded than me.

 

I could get banned for replying to an opening like that one ! (grin)

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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I know a few people like that (not a statistically useful number) but I do not see a consensus. In fact, they seem just like everyone else.

 

not sure what you are saying here?

I agree, they seem like everyone else too....they buy what they can afford.

 

My thinking is that some people the best they can afford is a schiit or they have an old PCM dac that they have had for years that cost them a fortune, and of course they will say only pcm.

 

I am curious as to people that have plenty of money that have no problems buying and keeping current with the best possible.

 

The 8 to 1 to 0 poll seems to be different than other polls.

 

I also am skeptical about some DAC manufacturers that press "NO DSD" and some brainwashing goes on because so far in my limited testing DSD easily wins....but i bought a schiit, so will see if there is any "hoopla" there.

It seems odd that someone that owns both yggy and gumby that they would say the differences are subtle, yet the yggy is supposedly the best money can buy?

 

It just seems like a lot of marketing to me.

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i have no idea what you are talking about?

But i am getting the answers i am looking for...and so far it is 8 to 1 to 0.

 

Here's 2 things to think about, but they're both related. The first is that you completely ignore half of the dac. The analog section. Aside from whether its balanced, single ended or something in between, its not mentioned. And to be honest, aside from a volume difference that you would never notice unless you were A/B testing 2 units, its not a relevant issue. What's important, is that the analog section can make a huge difference to how the dac sounds. Even if the digital side is the same, 2 dacs can still sound very different.

 

This leads me to the 2nd issue here. The designer. In previous posts, you mentioned something about Schiit fans being loyal and as a result, are trying to break the dacs down to some of their generic components, such as chips, formats, over sampling, up sampling, etc... The thing to remember here, is that a good designer doesn't get the sound they are looking for due to the sum of the generic components that go into the dac. They get the sound they want IN SPITE of the generic components the dac is composed of. People like Schiit because the guy that designs the equipment is famous, and makes very unique products. I like Ayre for the same reason. You can say the exact same thing about all of the popular digital brands out right now. They all have a unique sound that can't be duplicated by someone else. Sometimes you can hear general trends due to the generic components that go into a product, but not enough to judge them by. The only way to know for sure, is to listen.

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I also am skeptical about some DAC manufacturers that press "NO DSD" and some brainwashing goes on because so far in my limited testing DSD easily wins....

 

You aren't half biased are you ?

You appear to be only seeking confirmation of your own views !

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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You aren't half biased are you ?

You appear to be only seeking confirmation of your own views !

 

Let me put it this way. I have heard really good things about the schiits, but they don't do DSD.

Yet in another thread, i have someone saying if you listen to jazz and classical, one should want to buy something closest to the orignal (e.g. sacd/dsd), and not play downampled redbook...basically saying the system is crap if it can't resolve the differences between dsd and redbook.

 

Let's say i am considering buying a 2K dac, if it will get me more than a subtle difference than either a sigma-delta UD503 or a multibit bifrost. Also maybe a gungnir mulitbit. But if someone else is saying to save your time and money, that i should get something that i can hear the difference between a DSD and a redbook, that would lean me away from schiit, and maybe more towards a mytek or something else?

 

I am trying to save myself time and money by borrowing advice from those more experienced, as well as just hearing different peoples opinions.

 

Sure, buy what sounds good to you, but i certainly am not going to test drive 10,000 dacs...i am up to about 10 already.

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it's now 9 to 1 to 0.

 

The people that can buy whatever they want at any price seem to be leaning towards something that will do DSD.

 

Statistics, or just based on a small sample of C.A. members ?

IF they are leaning towards something that will do DSD, you can probably safely bet your left one that it won't be just DSD capable. It will have both PCM AND DSD capability in the hope that they have covered all bases for the foreseeable future to protect their investment .

As for DSD ever becoming mainstream. Dream on !!!

The general public hasn't even heard of DSD, let alone high resolution LPCM, neither do they care.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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that is understandable, if you never have any intention of owning music that is better than a cd

 

Tell me how much of Ritchie Blackmore is available in DSD? Keb' Mo'?

 

Not everyone is into western classical.

 

For me the music comes first, the format is secondary. Now if you are the kind who listens to only DSD then you are missing out on a lot of good music.

 

but if that is the case, i heavily doubt you fall into the "rich category'

 

Define rich? I own 4 homes, 3 cars, my speakers cost nearly $2000, my amp nearly the same, my DAC $1300, my source was a $2500 PC. So how much more "expensive" should equipment be in your mind for anyone to fall into the rich category?

 

All said and done the expensive PC never delivered.

 

Now I use a $35 Raspberry Pi and a $35 Chromecast Audio and the sound has been the best it has ever been. If anything that should tell you I enjoy music, not equipment, and of course I enjoy my music more on better equipment (not necessarily expensive always).

 

and also why wealth is relevant to the topic.

 

I agree, wealth is essential for a true audiophile. Not many can spend on $10,000 cables or $100,000 DACs.

 

But I know many rich folks who listen to music on Bose. I also know rich folks with expensive systems but with less than 50 CDs. Would you classify them as audiophiles, music lovers, or neither (hey another idea for a new poll).

Next to the Word of God, the noble art of music is the greatest treasure in the world - Martin Luther

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It will have both PCM AND DSD capability in the hope that they have covered all bases for the foreseeable future to protect their investment .

 

if they are rich, they won't care much about a dac investment. i would say they have one that does both very well to cover all their music, and where my head is at.

 

Again, no one is talking about which is more popular or whether dsd will fade away or not...just if they believe the best available dsd music sounds better than the best pcm music...you keep trying to read more into this than intended.

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Tell me how much of Ritchie Blackmore is available in DSD? Keb' Mo'?

 

Not everyone is into western classical.

 

For me the music comes first, the format is secondary. Now if you are the kind who listens to only DSD then you are missing out on a lot of good music.

 

 

 

Define rich? I own 4 homes, 3 cars, my speakers cost nearly $2000, my amp nearly the same, my DAC $1300, my source was a $2500 PC. So how much more "expensive" should equipment be in your mind for anyone to fall into the rich category?

 

All said and done the expensive PC never delivered.

 

Now I use a $35 Raspberry Pi and a $35 Chromecast Audio and the sound has been the best it has ever been. If anything that should tell you I enjoy music, not equipment, and of course I enjoy my music more on better equipment (not necessarily expensive always).

 

 

 

I agree, wealth is essential for a true audiophile. Not many can spend on $10,000 cables or $100,000 DACs.

 

But I know many rich folks who listen to music on Bose. I also know rich folks with expensive systems but with less than 50 CDs. Would you classify them as audiophiles, music lovers, or neither (hey another idea for a new poll).

 

feel free to share if you like, but your input wasn't solicited if your dac isn't 2K or more and your speakers are almost $2k..

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just if they believe the best available dsd music sounds better than the best pcm music...

 

Yet again you are trying to steer the direction of this thread as if it was a Curated thread !

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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Yet another poll which, IMO, has turned into an incredible waste of bandwidth. :)

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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Yet another poll which, IMO, has turned into an incredible waste of bandwidth. :)

 

+1

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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