Ncore nc400 amplifier amp

[beerandmusic]

In another thread, someone mentioned that there were MANY already built units for sale, where they thought someone would accept a return. I haven't found any, so if you know someone that takes returns or you can try a demo unit, please share.

 

While searching, i found NAD makes the M22 which uses the NC400, and i know there is a hi-fi shop not too far from here that sells NAD, so i may check with them, but it is also twice the going rate of the prebuilt kits, so the prebuilts would be preferable. Also would this NAD M22 sound the very similar to the prebuilt kits?

[wgscott]

These are deliberately designed to be (very simple) DIY projects, so if you really don't want to turn a screwdriver, you might be better off with a non-DIY alternative.

 

If I knew you well and you lived in my area, I would offer to build them for you at cost in exchange for the chance to listen to them for a week or so in my system, and would most likely be willing to keep them (or buy them off you) if you decided you didn't want them. (You could always sell them at cost to someone else in a similar situation.)

 

I'm sure you can find someone locally (wherever that might be) who feels similarly.

[Audio_ELF]

Generally speaking nc400 amplifiers are NOT available pre-built ... they are deliberately a DIY project from Hypex (Hypex say they do not sell them for OEM use).

 

There are some individuals who will build the nc400 plus PSU into an enclosure for you; but they are not commercial products as such.

 

https://www.hypexshop.com/DetailServlet?detailID=7616 is a kit direct from Hypex of all the parts you need including enclosure - according to the YouTube video you need - Philips head screwdriver, small flat screwdriver, wire cutters, crimping tool and a soldering iron and solder. The video at

will help you decide if its something you would want to tackle yourself. Cost is 650 Euros plus shipping and taxes per channel.

[rodrigaj]

The Nad M22 does not use the NC400. It does use Hpex ncore technology, which probably means some of their OEM boards. It is part of their Master Series offerings, which are not anything like the normal NAD stuff (nor is the price).

[jtwrace]

The Nad M22 does not use the NC400. It does use Hpex ncore technology, which probably means some of their OEM boards. It is part of their Master Series offerings, which are not anything like the normal NAD stuff (nor is the price).

 

It uses the UcD module.

[Audio_ELF]

It uses the UcD module.

Not quite... At least according to Greg Stidsen (director of technology and planning for NAD) who said to Digital Audio Review:

“We have our own nCore module developed in close co-operation with Hypex. It is based on the 400 not the 1200, but this is not a qualitative difference it only affects power output. We can do this because we will build and sell a lot of units. The 1200 was developed primarily for the pro market where huge power is required.”

 

“In the Hypex 400 module continuous power is 200W @8 and 400W @4. In our implementation it is 250W @ 8/4 controlled by Erik Edvardsen’s precision clipper circuit. The benefit of this approach is the ability to offer much more short term or dynamic power where we have 350W @8 and 600W @4. This makes the power in actual use seem greater than the spec – in typical NAD tradition!”

[Kal Rubinson]

Not quite... At least according to Greg Stidsen (director of technology and planning for NAD) who said to Digital Audio Review:

“We have our own nCore module developed in close co-operation with Hypex. It is based on the 400 not the 1200, but this is not a qualitative difference it only affects power output. We can do this because we will build and sell a lot of units. The 1200 was developed primarily for the pro market where huge power is required.”

 

“In the Hypex 400 module continuous power is 200W @8 and 400W @4. In our implementation it is 250W @ 8/4 controlled by Erik Edvardsen’s precision clipper circuit. The benefit of this approach is the ability to offer much more short term or dynamic power where we have 350W @8 and 600W @4. This makes the power in actual use seem greater than the spec – in typical NAD tradition!”

Review with bench measurements: NAD Masters Series M22 power amplifier | Stereophile.com

[Jud]

Generally speaking nc400 amplifiers are NOT available pre-built ... they are deliberately a DIY project from Hypex (Hypex say they do not sell them for OEM use).

 

There are some individuals who will build the nc400 plus PSU into an enclosure for you; but they are not commercial products as such.

 

https://www.hypexshop.com/DetailServlet?detailID=7616 is a kit direct from Hypex of all the parts you need including enclosure - according to the YouTube video you need - Philips head screwdriver, small flat screwdriver, wire cutters, crimping tool and a soldering iron and solder. The video at

will help you decide if its something you would want to tackle yourself. Cost is 650 Euros plus shipping and taxes per channel.

 

We've been through this on another thread or two. The OP likes going through audio equipment at a fairly rapid pace (something like 50-odd pairs of speakers tried in his system in the past couple of years). Some of this equipment he enjoys "flipping" to make money. Not possible to return DIY, and less easy to "flip." So it's not the difficulty (not at all in this case), but the fact that it doesn't fit his customary method of acquisition and disposition.

[beerandmusic]

We've been through this on another thread or two. The OP likes going through audio equipment at a fairly rapid pace (something like 50-odd pairs of speakers tried in his system in the past couple of years). Some of this equipment he enjoys "flipping" to make money. Not possible to return DIY, and less easy to "flip." So it's not the difficulty (not at all in this case), but the fact that it doesn't fit his customary method of acquisition and disposition.

 

I don't try to make money on new stuff (only used, someone just picked up a pair of martin logans, and a velodyne subwoofer dropped off today)...and i don't mind paying small restocking fee, or losing 10-20% reselling in high demand items...which i also do frequently, just to satisfy my personal testing....i just like listening to different components in my home.

 

but in this madness, i am trying to also find what i like for long term. I thought i was going to keep the TEAC UD-503, but i sent it back to get the NT-503...the fact that they are basically the same unit with just different inputs, i think i have my speakers and my dac locked down. I thought i had my amp locked down too, but the macintosh came with the a big slit down the side of the box. Granted, its only the box, but when you spend $4500+tax, i don't feel that is acceptable, and the guys at bestbuy wanted to just call it a little scratch. I told them if i ever resell it someone would think it took a hit, and it should be sold as open-box with at least 7% discount....

 

edit update...they just called me back. They agreed to knock off $300....going to go pick up the amp.

 

[JW Audio]

beerandmusic... is your first name Kevin ?

[beerandmusic]

beerandmusic... is your first name Kevin ?

 

yea, how did you know...., and btw, i don't ever listen to music...i only come on these forums to entertain...

[beerandmusic]

Not quite... At least according to Greg Stidsen (director of technology and planning for NAD) who said to Digital Audio Review:

“We have our own nCore module developed in close co-operation with Hypex. It is based on the 400 not the 1200, but this is not a qualitative difference it only affects power output. We can do this because we will build and sell a lot of units. The 1200 was developed primarily for the pro market where huge power is required.”

 

“In the Hypex 400 module continuous power is 200W @8 and 400W @4. In our implementation it is 250W @ 8/4 controlled by Erik Edvardsen’s precision clipper circuit. The benefit of this approach is the ability to offer much more short term or dynamic power where we have 350W @8 and 600W @4. This makes the power in actual use seem greater than the spec – in typical NAD tradition!”

 

 

i think that was the same article i read that made me believe it was the nc400, just that they used a different ps.

[jtwrace]

Not quite... At least according to Greg Stidsen (director of technology and planning for NAD) who said to Digital Audio Review:

“We have our own nCore module developed in close co-operation with Hypex. It is based on the 400 not the 1200, but this is not a qualitative difference it only affects power output. We can do this because we will build and sell a lot of units. The 1200 was developed primarily for the pro market where huge power is required.”

 

“In the Hypex 400 module continuous power is 200W @8 and 400W @4. In our implementation it is 250W @ 8/4 controlled by Erik Edvardsen’s precision clipper circuit. The benefit of this approach is the ability to offer much more short term or dynamic power where we have 350W @8 and 600W @4. This makes the power in actual use seem greater than the spec – in typical NAD tradition!”

 

M22 Stereo Power Amplifier - NAD Electronics

 

 

> Hybrid Digital Amplification

The M22 is using the latest nCore™ amplifier technology licensed from Hypex to provide a nearly ideal amplifier with distortion below measurement, ultra-high damping factor, and unconditional stability with any speaker. Tight, detailed sound with amazing control and transparency gets the best performance available. With nCore, Hypex has refined their UcD concept to new levels of perfection by improving the modulator for more accurate feedback subtraction and PWM generation. The all-discrete driver and output stage have also been improved for lower open-loop THD as well as lower idling losses, normally conflicting requirements with conventional IC driver circuitry. An added control loop incorporating an integrator with adaptive clipping enables 20dB more feedback to be used across the audio band because of its extremely low-phase shift resulting in a dramatic reduction in distortion across the audio band. This is added to UcD’s already amazing characteristics of load invariance and high current capability, common characteristics of great-sounding amplifiers.

[beerandmusic]

M22 Stereo Power Amplifier - NAD Electronics

 

 

> Hybrid Digital Amplification

The M22 is using the latest nCore™ amplifier technology licensed from Hypex to provide a nearly ideal amplifier with distortion below measurement, ultra-high damping factor, and unconditional stability with any speaker. Tight, detailed sound with amazing control and transparency gets the best performance available. With nCore, Hypex has refined their UcD concept to new levels of perfection by improving the modulator for more accurate feedback subtraction and PWM generation. The all-discrete driver and output stage have also been improved for lower open-loop THD as well as lower idling losses, normally conflicting requirements with conventional IC driver circuitry. An added control loop incorporating an integrator with adaptive clipping enables 20dB more feedback to be used across the audio band because of its extremely low-phase shift resulting in a dramatic reduction in distortion across the audio band. This is added to UcD’s already amazing characteristics of load invariance and high current capability, common characteristics of great-sounding amplifiers.

 

so, does that paragraph anded with the previous paragraph (based on ncore 400) mean the NC400 is a "refined UCD"?...

[jtwrace]

so, does that paragraph anded with the previous paragraph (based on ncore 400) mean the NC400 is a "refined UCD"?...

 

UcD has been around for many years. NC400 is all Bruno as a side project when he worked full time for another employer. When Jan-Peter saw the measurements and heard it he had to have and thus Bruno was hired at Hypex.

[beerandmusic]

man, that mc152 is a lot heavier than the old MA6500....i thought because it was reduced in size it would be lighter...that sucker is a monster...ughghgh...my back...

 

still looks sweet on the inside

[Audio_ELF]

UcD has been around for many years. NC400 is all Bruno as a side project when he worked full time for another employer. When Jan-Peter saw the measurements and heard it he had to have and thus Bruno was hired at Hypex.

Jason ... it was my understanding (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruno_Putzeys amongst other places) that Bruno Putzeys was responsible for the UcD as well - he was originally working for Phillips and left when Hypex was split off and continued to work with Hypex as well as other companies. Bruno's LinkedIn profile states he was Head of R&D for Hypex from 2005 - 2014 and then has been an "Independent Technology Consultant" for Hypex since then (and prior to working for Hypex was "Chief Engineer Class D Audio" at Philips for nearly 10 years). If its correct he developed UcD (or at least had a large input) then NAD's statement that "With nCore, Hypex has refined their UcD concept" is not in contradiction to the idea that the M22 uses nCore. I assume their reference to UcD is to explain that the M22 is using superior technology to the D3020 which they advertised as using UcD amplification.

 

Its stated pretty much everywhere (including direct quotes from senior NAD employees) that the M22 is reviewed it uses a variation of the nCore 400 so not sure why you are resisting this? Or are you suggesting everyone else is wrong?

[wgscott]

We've been through this on another thread or two. The OP likes going through audio equipment at a fairly rapid pace (something like 50-odd pairs of speakers tried in his system in the past couple of years). Some of this equipment he enjoys "flipping" to make money. Not possible to return DIY, and less easy to "flip." So it's not the difficulty (not at all in this case), but the fact that it doesn't fit his customary method of acquisition and disposition.