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Is the Devialet 400 worth a try?


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Far be it from me to break up the party... or parties?... but wondered how the DAC of their Devialet stacks up. Has anyone compared the Devialet DAC to another DAC?

In my case to the Berkeley Alpha DAC with a Alpha USB.....the D was superior and this may well be due to the very short signal path...the DAC so close to the Class A ampification stage...then the D stage

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Far be it from me to break up the party... or parties?... but wondered how the DAC of their Devialet stacks up. Has anyone compared the Devialet DAC to another DAC?

 

Have heard Devialet and thought it was good. Haven't done a DAC comparison. I asked a dealer what I would have to go to get a standalone DAC better than the one in the Devialet from the ones he sells - and he sells some very good ones - he said the Simaudio 380D DSD.

 

Note that the 380D is, by itself, closing in on the price of a Devialet 120 (especially with the volume control).

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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Thanks wdw and firedog - appreciate it [emoji846]

That's quite validation of the Devialet's prowess in the DAC department.

 

I was curious, as someone compared the new Burson to the DAC section in his Devialet 800. He suggested they were on 'par' (in his estimation... and not sure how much time he took on that comparison...). Never having heard a Devialet, I was curious. Thanks for giving me some idea [emoji846]

TF cards - USB  -> GentooPlayer in RAM on Rpi4b, Ian’s PurePi II, FIFO Q7, HDMI-pro  -> Audio GD R-27 -> S.A.T. Infinity monoblocks -> Gallo Stradas + TR-3 sub / Erzetich Phobos

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Hi odelay,

 

I have the Devialet 200 and play it in a large lounge room with a pair of OTHM G1 speakers but I have not A/B with another system. I have also listened for the past 5 years to a Benchmark DAC HDR connected directly into a pair of Adam A7 active speakers in my small office. I like both for their ability to produce a "life like and natural sound", however, I prefer the Devialet for the incredible sense of the musicians "being" in the room with you.

 

I appreciate my terminology is not very audiophile proficient but it is the best way I know how to describe what I hear. With the "Devialet system" the equipment and the speakers disappear and you are simply left with the instruments and singers.

 

Like Dr Tone I have felt no need to plug another DAC into the Devialet.

LOUNGE: Mac Mini - Audirvana - Devialet 200 - ATOHM GT1 Speakers

OFFICE : Mac Mini - Audirvana - Benchmark DAC1HDR - ADAM A7 Active Monitors

TRAVEL : MacBook Air - Dragonfly V1.2 DAC - Sennheiser HD 650

BEACH : iPhone 6 - HRT iStreamer DAC - Akimate Micro + powered speakers

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My D200 replaced a Resonessence Invicta which while more flexible doesn't sound as good. What must be considered is that the Devialet product is an integrated product and may have an advantage.

Aurender N10, Esoteric F-05 Integrated Amplifier, Synergistic Active USB, Oppo 203, Synergistic Atmosphere Level 3 UEF Speaker cables, Legacy Audio Focus SE, Rega Planar 10 turntable with Aphelion 2 cartridge.

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On a side note: I've just found out that SAM isn't the best thing since sliced bread with all speakers. My new Wilson Sabrinas arrived yesterday and they sound quite a bit better without SAM. Apparently Devialet shouldn't mess with the magical Wilson crossover.

Roon Rock->Auralic Aria G2->Schiit Yggdrasil A2->McIntosh C47->McIntosh MC301 Monos->Wilson Audio Sabrinas

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Interesting that your system works better without SAM. But SAM does speaker correction but no room correction. So while I've heard DSP make speaker sound better and worse, sometimes, it may sometimes have nothing to do with the DSP but more to do with how the DSP is applied in a particular situation. It's possible that SAM extended your Sabrina to 18-34Hz but you have a nasty room resonance in that frequency range which is why your speakers sound worse with SAM. Without SAM, the room resonance enhances the frequencies your speaker doesn't put out so it sounds better. It's also probably why Devialet allows you to dial in how strong you want to apply SAM. Personally, I think most audiophiles should own a real-time analyzer which nowadays cost <$300 which is a small cost to most systems that are at least in the mid-4-figure range. It always helps to know why you're hearing what you're hearing and then it's easier to decide whether you want to address the problem accordingly or not.

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Interesting that your system works better without SAM. But SAM does speaker correction but no room correction. So while I've heard DSP make speaker sound better and worse, sometimes, it may sometimes have nothing to do with the DSP but more to do with how the DSP is applied in a particular situation. It's possible that SAM extended your Sabrina to 18-34Hz but you have a nasty room resonance in that frequency range which is why your speakers sound worse with SAM. Without SAM, the room resonance enhances the frequencies your speaker doesn't put out so it sounds better. It's also probably why Devialet allows you to dial in how strong you want to apply SAM. Personally, I think most audiophiles should own a real-time analyzer which nowadays cost <$300 which is a small cost to most systems that are at least in the mid-4-figure range. It always helps to know why you're hearing what you're hearing and then it's easier to decide whether you want to address the problem accordingly or not.

 

I know what you mean, but in this case it had nothing to do with room modes, I'm listening at well below excite the room levels and it was on tracks without much bottom end at all.

Roon Rock->Auralic Aria G2->Schiit Yggdrasil A2->McIntosh C47->McIntosh MC301 Monos->Wilson Audio Sabrinas

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On a side note: I've just found out that SAM isn't the best thing since sliced bread with all speakers. My new Wilson Sabrinas arrived yesterday and they sound quite a bit better without SAM. Apparently Devialet shouldn't mess with the magical Wilson crossover.

 

From what I've read, you should consider trying the SAM set at different levels. I've read about users saying the sweet spot with their speakers was at anywhere from 30% to 70%.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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From what I've read, you should consider trying the SAM set at different levels. I've read about users saying the sweet spot with their speakers was at anywhere from 30% to 70%.

 

The % setting affects the bass extension amount only and is there to deal with room modes as ecwl mentions. SAM does more than bass extension, it has a phase alignment thing as well that is always on and I think it might be screwing with what Wilson is trying to achieve with their crossovers.

 

Don't get me wrong I loved what SAM did with my Focal 1028BEs but it isn't working with the Wilsons.

Roon Rock->Auralic Aria G2->Schiit Yggdrasil A2->McIntosh C47->McIntosh MC301 Monos->Wilson Audio Sabrinas

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There was an article in the German Stereo magazine October 2014 issue on how SAM works based on their measurements and interview with Devialet. It sounds like Devialet only corrects below 200Hz for phase and frequency response. The correction is only applied if it doesn't exacerbate cone excursion. So the frequency response at 500mW is very different than 50W. And finally at 100% SAM, there is a slow increase in volume up to 15dB at 20Hz whereas it's only up to 5dB at 50% and the frequency response is flat at 25%. Devialet used to have the English translation freely downloadable but I think they stopped because it gives away the farm. How that impacts individuals speakers and rooms and preferences is hard to say. The only thing I'd say is that I had a room resonance at 25Hz and I thought my speakers and later my subwoofer didn't excite that peak much because I usually listen at low volumes. But I was wrong because there's a clear audible difference when I tune it down via DSP. Even though there's no amplitude peak at that room node, the issue was the hanging note/tone. And it's almost or basically inaudible but it somehow affects other frequencies, essentially the frequency balance. It was an interesting phenomenon I didn't expect. Especially like Dr Tone I was listening to piano music at 60-65dB according to my iPhone app.

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Perhaps maybe worth noting that the Deviate 200 gives 'only' 150 watts into 8 ohms which may not be sufficient drive for some speakers and / or tastes in music. It might be necessary to go to the Deviate 400 which gives 300 watts into 8 ohms. This becomes very expensive!

This was the reason I went for separates (PS Audio DirectStream DAC + Primare A.60) as a less expensive and (to my ears) superb SQ option.

ALAC iTunes library on Synology DS412+ running MinimServer with Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 tablet running BubbleUPnP for control >

Hi-Fi 1: Airport Extreme bridge > Netgear switch > TP-Link optical isolation > dCS Network Bridge AND PS Audio PerfectWave Transport > PS Audio DirectStream DAC with Bridge Mk.II > Primare A60 > Harbeth SHL5plus Anniversary Edition .

Hi-Fi 2: Sonore Rendu > Chord Hugo DAC/preamp > LFD integrated > Harbeth P3ESRs and > Sennheiser HD800

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I don't think anyone knows exactly what they are doing in their SAM DSPing, but they do say up to 150Hz but has an effect on frequencies above that.

 

Here is their white paper, half way down is their sales speak for SAM.

 

http://www.klangpunkt.de/upload/bilder/aktuelles/Devialet/Devialet_-_White_Paper_-_SAM__ADH_Technologies.pdf

 

I think it's the time alignment thing Devialet is trying to fix and it's messing with what Wilson was trying to achieve with their drivers and crossovers. What devialet thinks it correct isn't what Wilson engineers wanted to hear.

Roon Rock->Auralic Aria G2->Schiit Yggdrasil A2->McIntosh C47->McIntosh MC301 Monos->Wilson Audio Sabrinas

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I don't think anyone knows exactly what they are doing in their SAM DSPing, but they do say up to 150Hz but has an effect on frequencies above that.

 

Here is their white paper, half way down is their sales speak for SAM.

 

http://www.klangpunkt.de/upload/bilder/aktuelles/Devialet/Devialet_-_White_Paper_-_SAM__ADH_Technologies.pdf

 

I think it's the time alignment thing Devialet is trying to fix and it's messing with what Wilson was trying to achieve with their drivers and crossovers. What devialet thinks it correct isn't what Wilson engineers wanted to hear.

 

For those who want to see how the German magazine Stereo almost reverse engineered how SAM works, it turns out Devialet still has the article on their website in English...

 

http://en.devialet.com/assets/blog/Stereo-translation-EN.pdf

 

Enjoy!

 

But of course, whatever sounds best sounds best, with or without SAM...

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Hi odelay,

 

Below are some an extracts from Absolute Sounds Robert Harley's review of the Devialet 200 and 400 in Feb 2015, wherein he highlights his impression of the improvement in SQ through adding the extra unit making a 400 = 2 x 200.

 

"Now the sound. The Devialet 200 was shocking in some respects—the clarity, transparency, dynamic impact, and bass authority were simply sensational for any amplifier, never mind an amplifier of the 200’s size and price. The overall presentation was big (dynamically and spatially), robust, muscular, and authoritative. Taking iron-sted control over the Magico Q7’s woofers, the 200 reproduced that almost physical “purring” quality of a Fender bass guitar to a “t.” The bass wasn’t just full- bodied, it was richly textured and nicely nuanced as well. The 200’s effortless authority and wide dynamics really showcased virtuoso bass performances, such as Ray Brown’s playing on Soular Energy (96/24 download) or his contribution to Bill Evans’ Quintessence (Analogue Productions 45rpm LP). The bass drum impacts on The Firebird (Reference Recordings 176.4/24) were hard-hitting, nearly lifting me out of my seat. This quality of bass and dynamic agility in an under-$10k integrated amplifier is remarkable. Incidentally, four Stillpoints Ultra SS isolation devices under the 200 further improved the 200’s already superb bottom-end.

 

The Devialet 200’s other salient quality was an open, transparent, and dimensional rendering. In the ability to conjure the illusion of instruments in space, each surrounded by a halo of air, the 200 was in the territory of expensive separates. The track “You’re Driving Me Crazy” by Dick Hyman on the Reference Recordings HRx Sampler (176.4/24) is a great yardstick for assessing a component’s ability to present a natural and open soundstage, as well as its ability to keep each instrument’s tonal and spatial characteristics intact within the larger whole. The 200 didn’t homogenize this track (as many components do to some degree), not did it foreshorten the tremendous soundstage depth and sense of live “air” around the performers.

 

The tonal balance seemed a little forward and incisive in the upper midrange and treble. On strings, solo or massed, the 200 tended to emphasize the upper harmonics of the strings rather than the instruments’ bodies. Cymbals were more prominent in the mix than through my reference amplifiers, and vocals had a touch of sibilance. On the plus side, this character fostered a sense of presence and immediacy, with an almost tangible quality to the midrange. The 200 didn’t gloss over recordings that are bright and hard in the treble—Donald Fagan’s otherwise stunning Morph the Cat in 96/24, for example. Yet on a smooth recording such as Duke Ellington’s Duke’s Big 4, Joe Pass’ guitar was reproduced with a stunning sense of the instrument existing in my listening room. Here’s where the 200’s tone controls came in handy; a 1–2dB treble cut took the edge off with just a slight loss of top-end openness and extension.

 

Transients were whip-fast, with percussion and other impulsive sounds taking on life and energy. In fact, “energy” is a good word to describe the 200; between the robust dynamics, incisive tonal balance, and razor-sharp transients, the 200 presented music with a lively, upbeat quality.

 

If you’re looking for a relaxed, laid-back, and forgiving presentation, the 200 probably isn’t for you. As always, loudspeaker matching is crucial. Turning to the phono performance, I configured one of the Devialet’s inputs to accept phono signals, and set the gain and cartridge loading for the Air Tight PC-1 Supreme cartridge. The sound was very much like the sound through the digital inputs, with the characteristic bottom-end punch, wide dynamics, and surprisingly three-dimensional soundstage. I thought, however, that the Devialet added a bit of sheen to the treble, heard as a slightly thinner sound to strings, cymbals that came a little closer to the fore, and a hint of sibilance on vocals.

 

I next converted my two stereo review samples to mono operation. This conversion process is quite simple: Create a new configuration le for each 200 on the website, load it into each 200; run one coaxial cable between them; and the two amplifiers now operate in tandem from the remote control. Even the displays on each unit are updated, changing from “Devialet 200” to “Devialet 400.” As great as the 200 was in bottom- end de nition, weight, dynamic impact, and control, it was even better when running a pair of 200’s in monoblock mode. No one would listen to a single 200 and want more from the bass (I didn’t, and I’d been listening to the incomparable $155k Soulution 701s), but adding a second 200 rendered a surprising increase in bottom-end punch and bass authority. Even more surprising was the increase in clarity, resolution, and transparency, and, in particular, the improvement in treble quality in mono operation. The tendency toward treble incisiveness described earlier disappeared in mono operation, something that I wasn’t expecting. In mono, the upper-mids became more liquid in texture, and the treble was decidedly gentler, more re ned and nuanced, and smoother. Why this should be I have no idea, but the difference was unmistakable. I would have thought that connecting a second 200 via a coaxial SPDIF link would have degraded the treble performance because the most advanced, flexible, and technically sophisticated audio product I’ve reviewed.

 

In addition to the greater midrange liquidity and smoother treble, the mono pair also exhibited ner resolution, not so much of low-level details but of the ability to separate individual instruments from the whole. Whatever was happening, in mono mode the pair of 200s offered stunning performance. Even under the unforgiving microscope of the Magico Q7s, the pair of Devialets sounded like much, much, more expensive electronics. This level of dynamic verve, bass authority, clarity, and resolution is unprecedented at this price, in my experience.

 

Just to check myself, at the end of the auditioning I switched back to the Berkeley Alpha USB and Alpha DAC reference digital front end, Soulution 725 preamp, and 701 monoblocks, a roughly $230k combination (which I had not heard for about two weeks). This juxtaposition only reinforced just how great a pair of Devialet 200s sound, and what an amazing value they represent. A mono pair is significantly better sounding in all respects than a single stereo unit.

 

CONCLUSION

The Devialet 200 is one remarkable component; its hybrid Class A/D amplifier, innovative software-controlled architecture, advanced features, and genre-bending shape and operation are unique. But the 200 is more than a just technological wonder—its sound quality is in many ways superb. The 200’s bass authority, dynamic impact, sound- stage transparency and dimensionality, and transient speed far exceed expectations for an under-$10k integrated amplifier/wireless streaming DAC.

 

The upper-mids and treble are a bit on the incisive side, a character that can be tamed with the 200’s tone controls or ideal loudspeaker matching. This outstanding performance was catapulted into another realm by running a pair of 200s in mono. The monoblock 200s not only improved upon the best qualities heard in stereo operation, but more significantly, ameliorated my reservations about the treble. Surprisingly, mono operation rendered a more refined presentation by virtue of the greater midrange liquidity and a significantly smoother and more relaxed high end."

 

The Devialet 200/400 is, by a wide margin, the most advanced, flexible, and technically sophisticated audio product I’ve reviewed. It may look like a lifestyle product, but underneath the 200/400 is a serious piece of audiophile hardware. It’s a compelling package that just happens to sound great, too.

LOUNGE: Mac Mini - Audirvana - Devialet 200 - ATOHM GT1 Speakers

OFFICE : Mac Mini - Audirvana - Benchmark DAC1HDR - ADAM A7 Active Monitors

TRAVEL : MacBook Air - Dragonfly V1.2 DAC - Sennheiser HD 650

BEACH : iPhone 6 - HRT iStreamer DAC - Akimate Micro + powered speakers

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i have heard the 120, 200 & 400.

 

with the excellent phono stage, i praise the 200.

 

they are all wonderful imho.

 

when you factor in no need for cables, these things make sense from an economic front, too.

 

then there is the WAF...when i showed The Wife the 200, she said get one, "you mean all crap will be gone from the LR! Go ahead & sell your stuff & get one!."

 

in a few years, i will likely pick up a used 200 as it will be a time in our life to beginning serous down-sizing.

Bill

 

Practicing Curmudgeon & Audio Snob

 

....just an "ON" switch, Please!

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It would appear that I lack the finesse to land an in home audition. So, I give up. Not the first time my money never got a chance to leave my pocket, due to dealer disinterest, and I sure am not going to beg.

 

Maybe, I will go completely nuts and buy a pair of 60.8s to go with my monitor speakers. Downsizing doesn't seem to be working too well for me.

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It would appear that I lack the finesse to land an in home audition. So, I give up. Not the first time my money never got a chance to leave my pocket, due to dealer disinterest, and I sure am not going to beg.

 

Maybe, I will go completely nuts and buy a pair of 60.8s to go with my monitor speakers. Downsizing doesn't seem to be working too well for me.

 

That's ridiculous, they Devialet comes in a very manageable well protected box. Time for a different dealer.

Roon Rock->Auralic Aria G2->Schiit Yggdrasil A2->McIntosh C47->McIntosh MC301 Monos->Wilson Audio Sabrinas

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That's ridiculous, they Devialet comes in a very manageable well protected box. Time for a different dealer.

 

I tried a couple. None seemed too keen, once I discussed what I would be comparing it with. Doubt I would receive the same response from the Pass dealer, but it is only audio, so not that big a deal. Wouldn't be the first time a dealer cost themselves a sale, due to inflexibility.

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