Metrum Musette

[mkrzych]

Nice descriptions of both DACs, Blaine! I think you nailed them. For me, what I can't get over with the Musette is the sheer naturalness of the way it presents. It makes me relaxed and paradoxically more alert at the same time. I can't begin to imagine how you measure something like that, but within minutes I knew that it was something I'd never heard or felt with any other DAC.

 

It was the Rega without the -r I was talking about, btw. I listened to it through a v-link into the coax. I've heard that the differences with the -r are pretty subtle, but maybe that's not so?

 

That could be the NOS DAC thing, as mentioned in the Metrum paper - NOS do not measure well, but sound better possibly. AFAIK, Rega DAC don't do oversampling as claimed by them - doesn't matter which on -R on non-R.

 

Rega states "We decided not to use a sample rate converter and process the data at the incoming sample rate which keeps the signal processing to a minimum."

[blaine78]

That could be the NOS DAC thing, as mentioned in the Metrum paper - NOS do not measure well, but sound better possibly. AFAIK, Rega DAC don't do oversampling as claimed by them - doesn't matter which on -R on non-R.

 

Rega states "We decided not to use a sample rate converter and process the data at the incoming sample rate which keeps the signal processing to a minimum."

 

The Rega DACs do oversample, hence the filter selection, you need to oversample to use those filters. What Rega means here, is they don't upsample prior to oversampling like some dacs do or allow you to do - i.e. 44.1 to 192k

[Jud]

That could be the NOS DAC thing, as mentioned in the Metrum paper - NOS do not measure well, but sound better possibly. AFAIK, Rega DAC don't do oversampling as claimed by them - doesn't matter which on -R on non-R.

 

Rega states "We decided not to use a sample rate converter and process the data at the incoming sample rate which keeps the signal processing to a minimum."

 

The Rega DACs do oversample, hence the filter selection, you need to oversample to use those filters. What Rega means here, is they don't upsample prior to oversampling like some dacs do or allow you to do - i.e. 44.1 to 192k

 

I hate marketing talk, it's so confusing.

 

The second page here is the block diagram for the chip used in the Rega: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwijyOiU1NvLAhWJbD4KHflXAGoQFggkMAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cirrus.com%2Fen%2Fpubs%2FproDatasheet%2FWM8742_v4.3.pdf&usg=AFQjCNELkLoPo9QCzAI5fzt8e3PSPXAivw&sig2=QQvzFKfArXZNKte7yvk_Wg

 

Note the blocks for the "PCM digital filters" and the sigma-delta modulators.

 

When you select the filters on the DAC-r, you are selecting the "PCM digital filters" you want to use in the process of sample rate conversion.

 

So why does Rega claim not to do sample rate conversion?

 

It has to do with the history of DACs.

 

The DAC-r has asynchronous USB input, which is a means of minimizing jitter. Prior to the popularization of async USB input, a jitter minimization method commonly used in USB DACs was "asynchronous sample rate conversion" (ASRC). After async USB input became popular, the old ASRC DACs developed a reputation for not sounding as good as the new DACs with async USB input. So what Rega's marketing people are actually trying to say in the statement Krzysztof quotes is "We don't use no stinkin' old-fashioned ASRC to minimize jitter, we've got async USB input like a good modern DAC should."

 

The DAC-r, like every other delta-sigma DAC, interpolates and filters to obtain a PCM sample rate of 352.8 or 384KHz, then runs the bitstream through sigma-delta modulators to get a DSD-like format at MHz sample rates before the final conversion to analog.

[mkrzych]

I hate marketing talk, it's so confusing.

 

The second page here is the block diagram for the chip used in the Rega: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwijyOiU1NvLAhWJbD4KHflXAGoQFggkMAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cirrus.com%2Fen%2Fpubs%2FproDatasheet%2FWM8742_v4.3.pdf&usg=AFQjCNELkLoPo9QCzAI5fzt8e3PSPXAivw&sig2=QQvzFKfArXZNKte7yvk_Wg

 

Note the blocks for the "PCM digital filters" and the sigma-delta modulators.

 

When you select the filters on the DAC-r, you are selecting the "PCM digital filters" you want to use in the process of sample rate conversion.

 

So why does Rega claim not to do sample rate conversion?

 

It has to do with the history of DACs.

 

The DAC-r has asynchronous USB input, which is a means of minimizing jitter. Prior to the popularization of async USB input, a jitter minimization method commonly used in USB DACs was "asynchronous sample rate conversion" (ASRC). After async USB input became popular, the old ASRC DACs developed a reputation for not sounding as good as the new DACs with async USB input. So what Rega's marketing people are actually trying to say in the statement Krzysztof quotes is "We don't use no stinkin' old-fashioned ASRC to minimize jitter, we've got async USB input like a good modern DAC should."

 

The DAC-r, like every other delta-sigma DAC, interpolates and filters to obtain a PCM sample rate of 352.8 or 384KHz, then runs the bitstream through sigma-delta modulators to get a DSD-like format at MHz sample rates before the final conversion to analog.

 

Thanks Jud, now it is crystal clear to me ;-) They used XMOS in the USB implementation as asynchronous. Does it mean for sure that is independent of the PC clock?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jud]

Thanks Jud, now it is crystal clear to me ;-) They used XMOS in the USB implementation as asynchronous. Does it mean for sure that is independent of the PC clock?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Yep, that's what it means.

[blaine78]

I hate marketing talk, it's so confusing.

 

The second page here is the block diagram for the chip used in the Rega: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwijyOiU1NvLAhWJbD4KHflXAGoQFggkMAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cirrus.com%2Fen%2Fpubs%2FproDatasheet%2FWM8742_v4.3.pdf&usg=AFQjCNELkLoPo9QCzAI5fzt8e3PSPXAivw&sig2=QQvzFKfArXZNKte7yvk_Wg

 

Note the blocks for the "PCM digital filters" and the sigma-delta modulators.

 

When you select the filters on the DAC-r, you are selecting the "PCM digital filters" you want to use in the process of sample rate conversion.

 

So why does Rega claim not to do sample rate conversion?

 

It has to do with the history of DACs.

 

The DAC-r has asynchronous USB input, which is a means of minimizing jitter. Prior to the popularization of async USB input, a jitter minimization method commonly used in USB DACs was "asynchronous sample rate conversion" (ASRC). After async USB input became popular, the old ASRC DACs developed a reputation for not sounding as good as the new DACs with async USB input. So what Rega's marketing people are actually trying to say in the statement Krzysztof quotes is "We don't use no stinkin' old-fashioned ASRC to minimize jitter, we've got async USB input like a good modern DAC should."

 

The DAC-r, like every other delta-sigma DAC, interpolates and filters to obtain a PCM sample rate of 352.8 or 384KHz, then runs the bitstream through sigma-delta modulators to get a DSD-like format at MHz sample rates before the final conversion to analog.

 

Thanks for explanation Jud. I got myself confused with SSRC.

[trappy]

Just a little update. The sound jumped around a lot over the past month; sometimes clear as a bell, sometimes it would go for an hour sounding like it hadn't had coffee and then suddenly snap to attention. It's more consistently smoothed out now. Some of the concerns I had about dense orchestral music have receded; in terms of organization and clarity it's at least as good as anything else I've heard. Tone colour, especially on winds and brass (man, can horns ever blaaat!) is great. The usual problem area of massed violins is perhaps the one area where I could wish for improvement -- it's a bit hard-sounding sometimes. Bass is the other area which is a bit inconsistent; sometimes I'll get a full, well-textured sound, and then I'll get indistinct "one note" sound. I did also change amplifiers in here as well (one up on the Naim staircase, but second-hand and well-burned in) so some of what I'm hearing may be coming from the amp settling down too.

 

Anyway, still the best DAC I've had! I am curious, however, to understand what those of you who don't like this approach dislike in it. The Musette is SO natural-sounding to me that I actually have a hard time imagining what people would object to in it, but we all have different ears! Would also like to hear if anyone has compared the Metrums to the Schiit multibit DACs.

[blaine78]

yep, experienced what you have during the break in. on many occasions I nearly put it up for sale and re-bought a Rega. but glad I stuck with it. give it at least 1.5 to 2 months to bloom. still recommend a Schiit Wyrd, or something similar, hard time listening to a DAC without it now, sounds more organised.

[trappy]

Discovering that my system volume was set at 2/3 was an eye-opening experience. I seriously have no idea how long it had been set like that. How embarrassing

[gldgate]

Just a little update. The sound jumped around a lot over the past month; sometimes clear as a bell, sometimes it would go for an hour sounding like it hadn't had coffee and then suddenly snap to attention. It's more consistently smoothed out now. Some of the concerns I had about dense orchestral music have receded; in terms of organization and clarity it's at least as good as anything else I've heard. Tone colour, especially on winds and brass (man, can horns ever blaaat!) is great. The usual problem area of massed violins is perhaps the one area where I could wish for improvement -- it's a bit hard-sounding sometimes. Bass is the other area which is a bit inconsistent; sometimes I'll get a full, well-textured sound, and then I'll get indistinct "one note" sound. I did also change amplifiers in here as well (one up on the Naim staircase, but second-hand and well-burned in) so some of what I'm hearing may be coming from the amp settling down too.

 

Anyway, still the best DAC I've had! I am curious, however, to understand what those of you who don't like this approach dislike in it. The Musette is SO natural-sounding to me that I actually have a hard time imagining what people would object to in it, but we all have different ears! Would also like to hear if anyone has compared the Metrums to the Schiit multibit DACs.

 

I don't have a Musette but had a Metrum Octave for a little while but ended up selling it. What I really liked about it was that there was there was absolutely no digital edge to the sound. Nice mid range and musical flow. Good tonality. The weakness of the DAC in my system was that it was not very extended on the high end - maybe even rolled off a bit. I have heard that the newer Metrum's are better in this area. If that is the case, I think you have a mighty fine and musical DAC. In my system, the Yggy has a lot of the positive traits that the Octave had with better overall extension at both extremes. However, I think system synergy is critical and would never imply the Yggy is a one size fits all DAC (and I'd love to get the opportunity to hear one of the later Metrum Models).

[trappy]

Thanks for the reply! I had almost thought of getting a Gumby, just because, as it's now got a Canadian source. But then I thought sometimes curiosity is just silly, and an insult to one's wallet. Your reply has helped me settle down a bit

 

Even with the correction of my discovery of my system volume being turned down I can still say that the Musette is maybe a touch rolled off in the treble. I don't get quite that sense of almost infinite extension that I got from the exaSound e22. Not that it's bad, just not the last word. Bass, on the other hand is amazing, and seems to be still getting better. I can't believe the depths it seems to plumb and the texture it reveals -- and this is on a tiny pair of Dynaudio DM 2/6!

[Indydan]

Thanks for the reply! I had almost thought of getting a Gumby, just because, as it's now got a Canadian source. But then I thought sometimes curiosity is just silly, and an insult to one's wallet. Your reply has helped me settle down a bit

 

Even with the correction of my discovery of my system volume being turned down I can still say that the Musette is maybe a touch rolled off in the treble. I don't get quite that sense of almost infinite extension that I got from the exaSound e22. Not that it's bad, just not the last word. Bass, on the other hand is amazing, and seems to be still getting better. I can't believe the depths it seems to plumb and the texture it reveals -- and this is on a tiny pair of Dynaudio DM 2/6!

 

I am probably not understanding what you mean. Are you saying that Schiit now has a distributor/dealer in Canada?

[Indydan]

Just a little update. The sound jumped around a lot over the past month; sometimes clear as a bell, sometimes it would go for an hour sounding like it hadn't had coffee and then suddenly snap to attention. It's more consistently smoothed out now. Some of the concerns I had about dense orchestral music have receded; in terms of organization and clarity it's at least as good as anything else I've heard. Tone colour, especially on winds and brass (man, can horns ever blaaat!) is great. The usual problem area of massed violins is perhaps the one area where I could wish for improvement -- it's a bit hard-sounding sometimes. Bass is the other area which is a bit inconsistent; sometimes I'll get a full, well-textured sound, and then I'll get indistinct "one note" sound. I did also change amplifiers in here as well (one up on the Naim staircase, but second-hand and well-burned in) so some of what I'm hearing may be coming from the amp settling down too.

 

Anyway, still the best DAC I've had! I am curious, however, to understand what those of you who don't like this approach dislike in it. The Musette is SO natural-sounding to me that I actually have a hard time imagining what people would object to in it, but we all have different ears! Would also like to hear if anyone has compared the Metrums to the Schiit multibit DACs.

 

Congratulations on the purchase of a Naim XS2! I have been thinking of eventually upgrading to the XS2 (I currently have a Naim 5i). Don't hesitate to mention the improvements the XS2 offers compared to your 5si.

[trappy]

I am probably not understanding what you mean. Are you saying that Schiit now has a distributor/dealer in Canada?

 

Headphone Bar in Vancouver. They don't have everything, though. No Yggy... yet.

[davidbeinct]

For those of you with Metrum NOS DACs, do any of you use HQPlayer for its filters?

[blaine78]

For those of you with Metrum NOS DACs, do any of you use HQPlayer for its filters?

 

not as yet, but have tried JRiver's up-sampling. much preferred without, pure NOS.

[trappy]

Same here. Hi-Rez sounds great on the Metrum; upsampling brings in the unnaturalness it was designed to avoid. Although, I guess you were asking specifically about the filters; that might be interesting to hear. I only ever had the trial of HQP and it's long since expired.

[trappy]

Congratulations on the purchase of a Naim XS2! I have been thinking of eventually upgrading to the XS2 (I currently have a Naim 5i). Don't hesitate to mention the improvements the XS2 offers compared to your 5si.

 

I love the 5si; it's really a lot of fun. Punchy, rhythmic, and with surprisingly good tonality and color. Not a what I'd call a relaxed amp, and I suspect it would play better with more efficient speakers, even though its 60w feels bigger than that. In my small room it made the Dynaudios a little too forward. The XS2 almost seemed boring in comparison (like being velocitized.) Where the 5si is focused on the leading edge of notes, the XS2 pays more attention to the decay trails making the performance seem broader. It definitely wields the power it has (only 10w more than the baby brother) with a lot more authority, a real iron grip on the Dyns woofers. It's amazing how tight and low those little 5" babies go. The XS2 also does scale better than the 5si, which can play Mahler, but makes it sound a bit like baby Mahler. Both amps have good headphone sections, but the XS2's is class A and markedly better; if you listen with phones it's a very good value.

 

Btw, these little Dyns are real stars; they sound better and better as you improve the front end. They cost me a less than a third of what my old speakers cost and I like them better. They were originally going to be a cheap stand-in while I looked for something else. Well, they are the something else.

 

Anyway, this system has synergy out the yang!

[blaine78]

A month ago, I had a pair of Luxman interconnects on the Musette which were quite revealing and perhaps little on the bright side, they sounded great on the warmish Rega DAC, but had a feeling wasn't a good match with the Musette. Anyway, as i'm not into buying expensive interconnects and prefer basic copper cables, I stumbled across rave reviews for the Chord C-Line. They are quite inexpensive and found them to be a perfect match with the musette.

[Indydan]

I love the 5si; it's really a lot of fun. Punchy, rhythmic, and with surprisingly good tonality and color. Not a what I'd call a relaxed amp, and I suspect it would play better with more efficient speakers, even though its 60w feels bigger than that. In my small room it made the Dynaudios a little too forward. The XS2 almost seemed boring in comparison (like being velocitized.) Where the 5si is focused on the leading edge of notes, the XS2 pays more attention to the decay trails making the performance seem broader. It definitely wields the power it has (only 10w more than the baby brother) with a lot more authority, a real iron grip on the Dyns woofers. It's amazing how tight and low those little 5" babies go. The XS2 also does scale better than the 5si, which can play Mahler, but makes it sound a bit like baby Mahler. Both amps have good headphone sections, but the XS2's is class A and markedly better; if you listen with phones it's a very good value.

 

Btw, these little Dyns are real stars; they sound better and better as you improve the front end. They cost me a less than a third of what my old speakers cost and I like them better. They were originally going to be a cheap stand-in while I looked for something else. Well, they are the something else.

 

Anyway, this system has synergy out the yang!

 

Thanks for the 5si VS XS2 comparison! Glad you're liking your Dynaudio's. 2 way bookshelf monitors are somewhat unappreciated by many, I believe. I went from huge Paradigm Studio 100s V5, to my current Sonus Faber Venere 2.0

 

It's true that they are very different speakers, but I just think that a really good 2 way bookshelf can do things that large towers cannot. It's hard to say what exactly, but the mids seem more effortless. In a small or medium sized room, I think a 2 way monitor is the way to go.

 

What HIFI really liked your speakers!

 

Dynaudio DM 2/6 review | What Hi-Fi?

[musickid]

hello to all im thinking of selling my modimultibit to fund an upgrade to metrum musette. also does this dac pair well with a tube amp like earmax pro. finally anyone used intona wth musette. there would be no problem using intona with a musette like any other dac? thanks to all. uk based.

[robocop]

I would entertain the Holo Spring Dac before the Musette. Reviews place the Holo up with the Metrum Pavane but not beating it, 3 times the price of the Musette. The Holo Spring will blow the Musette away by all accounts. Reviews are online for the Holo Spring Dac starting here at Computer Audiophile. I know I nearly bought a Musette but am tracking the Holo Spring now.

[musickid]

not for sale in uk unfortunately or europe as far as i can tell.

[robocop]

You would have to mail order it from the US(https://kitsunehifi.com/product-category/audio-gear/dac/) or Hong Kong( https://wildism-audio-hk.myshopify.com) both very reliable. You can also order from China but can't guarantee backup service. Check Head-fi, The Computer Audiophile for reviews and comments. In the light of excellent reviews worth the trouble.

[musickid]

the customs and vat charges in uk would really make this far more expensive.vat is 20%. the musette is in stock in uk dealers. im selling a modimultibit dac and intona industrial listed on headfi if anyone is interested.