T+a dac 8 dsd

[guiltyboxswapper]

I had the phison PD2 around, ran with hqplayer in the same setup as the T+A.  Close but not quite the match.  Pd2 similar to purestream, shared lot of same circuits.

 

Bass articulation and dynamics were the noticeable behind as well as a mild forward sounding mid-range (some might prefer depending on setup).  Qualities such as presence and voice timbre weren't quite T+A grade.  In it's own right mind it's a fantastic unit, just if you know what the T+A sounds like....

 

Was used in direct DSD mode, and it supports both dop DSD 256 and native DSD 256 without a fuss as the xmos chipset is well supported.

 

Might be worth trying purestream anyway, as I have a very resolving setup (blades, ncore 1200s in bufferless mode, room treatment, jcat femto USB etc).  Not sure most systems would pick up the difference, but it was there.

[Ben-M]

On 2018-03-31 at 8:22 PM, guiltyboxswapper said:

I had the phison PD2 around, ran with hqplayer in the same setup as the T+A.  Close but not quite the match.  Pd2 similar to purestream, shared lot of same circuits.

 

Bass articulation and dynamics were the noticeable behind as well as a mild forward sounding mid-range (some might prefer depending on setup).  Qualities such as presence and voice timbre weren't quite T+A grade.  In it's own right mind it's a fantastic unit, just if you know what the T+A sounds like....

 

Was used in direct DSD mode, and it supports both dop DSD 256 and native DSD 256 without a fuss as the xmos chipset is well supported.

 

Might be worth trying purestream anyway, as I have a very resolving setup (blades, ncore 1200s in bufferless mode, room treatment, jcat femto USB etc).  Not sure most systems would pick up the difference, but it was there.

Interesting news. Yes, I'd seen the talk about the PD2 and the Purestream. That's pretty cool that someone has tried at least a similar version of the combo. 

 

The excitement/consumerism has passed now, a bit, and I think I'm going to try to keep my head on straight for a while. If a Superstream endpoint does come up, I'll snatch one of those up immediately, though...

[guiltyboxswapper]

Yeah worth grabbing one as its certainly close.  I would also look at Mirand's version as he's the actual designer/manufacturer. 

 

This T+A is a difficult unit to replace in terms of sound quality in DSD mode at least.

[Ben-M]

No one in the collective has reached out to T+A or Amanero lately regarding the DSD512 upgrade, have they? I'm still hoping that "upgrade" comes through, as it'll open the door for a lot of different endpoints and system designs vs. the Windows only limitation we've got now. 

[sbenyo]

There were contacts with T+A a few times regarding Linux update but with no success. At first there was hope there will be and update with sending the DAC to be patched or even better a manual procedure. As time goes without any update, I think the chances it will happen are getting really low or even none.

 

I do think it should be T+A's interest that their flagship DAC will have this capability which will definitely make it much more competitive. If they don't do it, I can only guess it's either technically not possible (yet?) or it's not cost/effective for them to handle it (testing, patching, handling, etc.)

 

It may be a good time to check again but I don't think there will be any news. If there was something in this direction T+A would have already published something.

 

I must admit that for me, after building an audiophile PC running HQP, this is less relevant even though I think it can be a great value for trying different streaming options.

 

[Ben-M]

I'll have to reach out to both Amanero and T+A again about it. I did before, but like you said, it's been a while since either one gave any real feedback.

 

I also have a Windows based machine to feed my DAC 8 DSD, but there are several purpose built, Linux OSes that I would love to try at DSD512; Snake Oil OS, Euphony OS, Debian, Audiophile Linux, or HQPlayer Embedded. Then the streamers like Sonore UltraRendu or some Raspberry Pis. 

 

It's true, it's to have a look, but I'd also guess there's a decent chance one of those might have a sound I prefer. 

 

Anyway, I'll reach out and report back again

[k6davis]

I just took my brand new T+A DAC 8 DSD out of the box. I can't get the driver to install on my Windows Server 2012 R2 machine.

 

I tried temporarily removing Audiophile Optimizer, restoring the full GUI and installing the driver using all of the available compatibility modes (with consumer versions of Windows) with no luck. 

 

All it says is "Install Failed". 

 

I know some people here have said that they're using this DAC with Windows Server 2012. Does anyone have any suggestions, or maybe an older version of the driver that might work for me?

 

Thanks,

Keith

[k6davis]

I figured it out. I needed to configure Windows Server 2012 to allow installation of unsigned drivers. It was easy once I found what I was looking for.

 

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/emberger/2014/04/21/windows-server-2012-r2-install-unsigned-drivers/

 

First impressions of the DAC are very, very favorable, but I've made a lot of changes and I'm letting things settle in further before I say more.

[bibo01]

@volpone and others,

 

this is a quick update on Amanero's firmware/driver situation.

Domenico said that he will release "very soon" firmware 2004 for Linux which should take care of distortion at high DSD frequencies (mostly at 256 and 512). Furthermore, he has to readjust his new Windows driver that will work with such firmware because of a recent Windows 10 update.

How quickly and if all this is going to be implemented by T&A, I do not know. It will be up to them to validate it once it's released.   

[volpone]

6 hours ago, bibo01 said:

this is a quick update on Amanero's firmware/driver situation ...

 

Thank you @bibo01,
Good news that Domenico does not give up. A real roller coaster ride.
Finger X again !

[gdpr]

On 15-5-2018 at 12:54 PM, bibo01 said:

@volpone and others,

 

this is a quick update on Amanero's firmware/driver situation.

Domenico said that he will release "very soon" firmware 2004 for Linux which should take care of distortion at high DSD frequencies (mostly at 256 and 512). Furthermore, he has to readjust his new Windows driver that will work with such firmware because of a recent Windows 10 update.

How quickly and if all this is going to be implemented by T&A, I do not know. It will be up to them to validate it once it's released.   

Unfortunately, this is exactly the same statement (except for the version number) as almost 1/2 year ago.

As Amanero has been able to make a significant number of DAC manufacturer's incorporating his module, I fear he has no choice than not giving up.

Remains the question if for future products these manufacturer's will not be looking for alternative providers.

 

Personally I have given up all hope that the existing module will ever be able to support DSD256/DSD512 on Linux, in a way that T+A will make an official upgrade available to its DAC 8 DSD users.

 

Dirk

 

 

[bibo01]

12 hours ago, ddetaey said:

Unfortunately, this is exactly the same statement (except for the version number) as almost 1/2 year ago.

As Amanero has been able to make a significant number of DAC manufacturer's incorporating his module, I fear he has no choice than not giving up.

Remains the question if for future products these manufacturer's will not be looking for alternative providers.

 

Personally I have given up all hope that the existing module will ever be able to support DSD256/DSD512 on Linux, in a way that T+A will make an official upgrade available to its DAC 8 DSD users.

 

Dirk

 

 

I can only tell you that Amanero is still working on it. 

BTW, I do not live next to Amanero's office. I pay for an international call to get an update on the situation and then report it here...and give you a chance to write the above statement.

[gdpr]

Dear bibo01

 

My sincere apologies if in any way I gave the impression I was critisiting you.

 

At the contrary, I want to thank you for your efforts and persistency in trying to, as best as you can, follow-up with Amanero.

 

So the latest thing I wanht to achieve is for you to feel frustated by my comments, as I feel frustrated by my own decision to buy the T+A 8 DSD dac, based on 'promises' (from Amanero) to get this fixed in a reasonable time.

I still have difficulties to understand  why it so complicated to get the right driver/firmware for Linux, if all seems to work well with Windows. But I am not knowledgeable enough to express a valid opinion.

 

So again, thanks for your communications, keep them them coming.  And if one day Amanero comes up with a final solution, you may feel rewarded  by having helped push it forward.

 

Kind regards

 

Dirk

 

[bibo01]

1 hour ago, ddetaey said:

Dear bibo01

 

My sincere apologies if in any way I gave the impression I was critisiting you.

 

At the contrary, I want to thank you for your efforts and persistency in trying to, as best as you can, follow-up with Amanero.

 

So the latest thing I wanht to achieve is for you to feel frustated by my comments, as I feel frustrated by my own decision to buy the T+A 8 DSD dac, based on 'promises' (from Amanero) to get this fixed in a reasonable time.

I still have difficulties to understand  why it so complicated to get the right driver/firmware for Linux, if all seems to work well with Windows. But I am not knowledgeable enough to express a valid opinion.

 

So again, thanks for your communications, keep them them coming.  And if one day Amanero comes up with a final solution, you may feel rewarded  by having helped push it forward.

 

Kind regards

 

Dirk

 

Dirk, no worries.

I just wanted to give people an idea about how my reports from Amanero do happen.

 Linux and Windows drivers are two different animals. The difficulty in Linux - originally the card could only do DSD128 - are due to hardware constraints which Amanero has been trying to work around over and over. I trust that this latest firmware could solve distortion problems.

Windows driver, on the other hand, has had some problems because Microsoft made it difficult for Amanero to authorize it and also because the same driver is going to be used on a different product Amanero is working on. 

[blue2]

42 minutes ago, bibo01 said:

… The difficulty in Linux - originally the card could only do DSD128 - are due to hardware constraints which Amanero has been trying to work around over and over. I trust that this latest firmware could solve distortion problems ...

Thanks from me too for pursuing this.

The quoted section is a bit puzzling. Is it that the firmware memory space is the limitation to provision for the two driver versions? It does not sound encouraging that the current Linux version has distortion problems not present with Windows. I would have thought (naively?) that the USB data unpacking firmware code would be the same regardless of Windows/Linux host?

There is a firmware revision history here and release history here which seem to correspond so am I correct in assuming it's this Amanero Combo384 Module card which is used in many different DAC's? Is there any chance we could invite a bit more detailed explanation from Amanero the next time you speak to him?

Thanks again

[mav52]

Besides this Linux issue, hows does this dac function overall in a windows machine for PCM & DSD as compared to say a Halo Spring LV 3 , anybody .

[bibo01]

3 hours ago, blue2 said:

Thanks from me too for pursuing this.

The quoted section is a bit puzzling. Is it that the firmware memory space is the limitation to provision for the two driver versions? It does not sound encouraging that the current Linux version has distortion problems not present with Windows. I would have thought (naively?) that the USB data unpacking firmware code would be the same regardless of Windows/Linux host?

There is a firmware revision history here and release history here which seem to correspond so am I correct in assuming it's this Amanero Combo384 Module card which is used in many different DAC's? Is there any chance we could invite a bit more detailed explanation from Amanero the next time you speak to him?

Thanks again

No, Windows and Linux drivers are very different in the way the talk to OS.

If you look at the github discussion you mentioned, you can see that I participated there too.

Yes, it is the same module card for most DACs, although T&A has it implemented directly on the motherboard.

What kind of "more detailed explanation" would you like? It is often a question of DMA communication on the card, In/Out buffer, managing the little memory onboard...

I usually try to give the overall picture, the state of affair of firmware/driver development.

[blue2]

2 minutes ago, bibo01 said:

No, Windows and Linux drivers are very different in the way the talk to OS...

Yes understood but it's the firmware changes I'm interested in. How the driver talks to the OS is already taken care of as there are Linux and Windows versions, and with identical USB hardware interfaces if we install Linux on a Windows PC for example. To accommodate DSD512 on Linux is the issue, which I'm guessing requires more efficient transfer code. The question is why does this need firmware code changes for the same Amanero USB interface talking to different OS's?

 

Yes, it is the same module card for most DACs, although T&A has it implemented directly on the motherboard.

OK but hopefully the T+A only need a verified working new firmware version.

 

What kind of "more detailed explanation" would you like? It is often a question of DMA communication on the card, In/Out buffer, managing the little memory onboard...

Yes something like that - explanation of what changes are needed in the T+A/Amanero board firmware and why.

 

Thanks

[ronnie.sengupta]

On 15/05/2018 at 4:24 PM, bibo01 said:

@volpone and others,

 

this is a quick update on Amanero's firmware/driver situation.

Domenico said that he will release "very soon" firmware 2004 for Linux which should take care of distortion at high DSD frequencies (mostly at 256 and 512). Furthermore, he has to readjust his new Windows driver that will work with such firmware because of a recent Windows 10 update.

How quickly and if all this is going to be implemented by T&A, I do not know. It will be up to them to validate it once it's released.   

Thank you for the update.

[emcdade]

It appears I'm a good candidate for this DAC.  I already have a powerful computer in my office that I use as my server (i7 2600k at 4.8ghz and a GTX 970) running Roon server and already have a Windows computer in my lounge that I use for an HTPC.  A couple of questions:

 

1.  Is this DAC still considered a leader in its price class when running DSD 512?

2.  Will my PC upsample to 512 without dropouts?  Nothing ruins the experience for me like skipping/stuttering tracks.

 

3.  I replaced with PC in the lounge with an SMS-200 and Sbooster and I noticed a fairly large jump in sound quality last year (much softer, less glare, more clarity).  This makes me very hesitant to go back to a standard PC's usb ouput.  What do you consider the best bang for the buck device to improve computer USB and make it similar to the SMS-200, for say under $500?

 

Thanks for any help!

[4est]

On 5/16/2018 at 11:22 AM, ddetaey said:

Unfortunately, this is exactly the same statement (except for the version number) as almost 1/2 year ago.

As Amanero has been able to make a significant number of DAC manufacturer's incorporating his module, I fear he has no choice than not giving up.

Remains the question if for future products these manufacturer's will not be looking for alternative providers.

 

Personally I have given up all hope that the existing module will ever be able to support DSD256/DSD512 on Linux, in a way that T+A will make an official upgrade available to its DAC 8 DSD users.

 

Dirk

 

 

And just how many devices can do DSD 512 on linux?

[4est]

4 hours ago, emcdade said:

It appears I'm a good candidate for this DAC.  I already have a powerful computer in my office that I use as my server (i7 2600k at 4.8ghz and a GTX 970) running Roon server and already have a Windows computer in my lounge that I use for an HTPC.  A couple of questions:

 

1.  Is this DAC still considered a leader in its price class when running DSD 512?

2.  Will my PC upsample to 512 without dropouts?  Nothing ruins the experience for me like skipping/stuttering tracks.

 

3.  I replaced with PC in the lounge with an SMS-200 and Sbooster and I noticed a fairly large jump in sound quality last year (much softer, less glare, more clarity).  This makes me very hesitant to go back to a standard PC's usb ouput.  What do you consider the best bang for the buck device to improve computer USB and make it similar to the SMS-200, for say under $500?

 

Thanks for any help!

Your computer is on the cusp of working. Here, I can get my i7 3770k/gtx1060 to upsample to dsd8x if I stay in the same rate family.

[bibo01]

On 5/17/2018 at 8:27 PM, blue2 said:

Yes understood but it's the firmware changes I'm interested in. How the driver talks to the OS is already taken care of as there are Linux and Windows versions, and with identical USB hardware interfaces if we install Linux on a Windows PC for example. To accommodate DSD512 on Linux is the issue, which I'm guessing requires more efficient transfer code. The question is why does this need firmware code changes for the same Amanero USB interface talking to different OS's?

 

 

Yes, it is the same module card for most DACs, although T&A has it implemented directly on the motherboard.

OK but hopefully the T+A only need a verified working new firmware version.

 

What kind of "more detailed explanation" would you like? It is often a question of DMA communication on the card, In/Out buffer, managing the little memory onboard...

Yes something like that - explanation of what changes are needed in the T+A/Amanero board firmware and why.

 

Thanks

Update - I have spoken to Amanero today. Unfortunately, last week he was in London for an important job, so no work was done, but this week he's aiming to release 2004BE firmware for Linux. He is confident that distortion and channel swapping are solved. Apparently, he is going to use one DMA channel only. Previosly he was using two channels and they were going out of sync because on-board cpu was nor able to keep up. After release there will be a round of tests on github. Fingers crossed again.

[rowli]

That’s great, thanks for the info bibo!

[ronnie.sengupta]

6 hours ago, bibo01 said:

Update - I have spoken to Amanero today. Unfortunately, last week he was in London for an important job, so no work was done, but this week he's aiming to release 2004BE firmware for Linux. He is confident that distortion and channel swapping are solved. Apparently, he is going to use one DMA channel only. Previosly he was using two channels and they were going out of sync because on-board cpu was nor able to keep up. After release there will be a round of tests on github. Fingers crossed again.

Fingers and toes crossed! Thanks for the updatr