T+a dac 8 dsd

[sydlow]

...AND a Chipless DSD512 module when I want to do the highest rate upsampling. Yes, this indeed available (I asked) ...

How much is the module? It's doesn't seem to be on the web page

DAC ATLANTIC

[astrostar59]

Be interested in your take v Total Dual you have.

[Le Concombre Masqué]

thank you for pointing ; curious to read feedback from the Monaco team since the 512 DSD only version is dedicated to them, T+A champions !

Actually, any of the chipless DSD implémentations will convert the DSD at whatever native rate it is fed. There is no need for "mapping" or any additives or préservatives when handing the delicate DSD Stream.

 

Me personally, I see a clear sweetspot with the Lampi Atlantic Dac, where for about $5 to 6K in total, I would get the standard R2R implementation with PCM 384 and DSD256 autoswitching AND a Chipless DSD512 module when I want to do the highest rate upsampling. Yes, this indeed available (I asked) and the Feather in the cap is that the native rate playback is superb...so upsampling is NOT obligatory, but a fun exercise when one wants to do extreme audiophile listening, or when hosting a Rave! I prefer this even to the DSD512 only Atlantic Dac, due to the versatility.

 

The Atlanic range uses DH Pentodes in Triode mode, so have extended HF compared to DHTs. A sort of Lampi sound with SS influences. A bit more expensive than the Dac 8, but a many trick pony...with no Chips Inside at all. The Dac 8 is reportedly outstanding at DSD512, but opinions are mixed about native rate playback. Noise floor is very low.

[wisnon]

thank you for pointing ; curious to read feedback from the Monaco team since the 512 DSD only version is dedicated to them, T+A champions !

 

Monaco had a DHT Siebener Dac with dsd512, the Altantic Dat is DH Pentode in triode more and is a different line than the Dac7s.

[Priaptor]

MSB advertises against DSD to PCM conversion and presents their DSD as even more kosher than delta sigma through their mapping to 1.4 Mhz 24 bits. I would really like to read a regarded opinion (i.e. Miska's !) about this. Their renderer offering NAA capability would make the Analog a DAC I might consider although the $ 24 950 interconnect might shy me from MSB for ever despite the rest of their marketing being rather appealing to me...

convolution of even DSD files makes HQP irreplaceable to me even without any upsampling

 

The only way to know if this DAC is for you is to try it despite all claims.

 

Call Vince at MSB and I am sure he can arrange a demo.

 

While they market to many different geographic and economic strata, over the years I have owned my MSB I have come to appreciate their policies more. They did have a hiccup when introducing their Select series but other than that have been pretty good

 

I have owned my Diamond Plus IV for over 3 years having made one change from standard to QUAD USB and now I am upgrading to the V which includes a new power supply. Not bad for the time span and for me I have yet to hear a DAC that bests the IV I am upgrading from. Point is the 25k IC notwithstanding to jade your opinion their products are definitely worthy of consideration in their price class.

[lightminer]

Just read the MSB page. I like the optical connections and the overall flexibility/modularity - that is awesome. I do think there is a lot of engineering to justify the price. Would be interesting to see if they lowered price in half if that actually increased sales. It may not. Maybe at 20k they would move a lot of units. (Once you are at 50k, why not go 90?). Like Soundlabs, I spoke to them once and they actually can make an 8k speaker but they enjoy the white-glove customer experience and the relationship and are happy only doing super-high end and engaging with most of their customers directly, even if the 8k speaker would make them a lot more money in the end. Maybe MSB feels the same.

 

As to the RCA cable, I actually think the 25k RCA cable is actually a psychology experiment they are doing in concert with a few University Professors. That would explain it. Maybe they will publish a paper about ABX, subjective vs measurements, purchasing decision making, psycho-acoustics, etc. next year. I look forward to seeing the results of their experiment.

 

(EDIT: Just saw the MSB Analog, much cheaper, starts around 7k, then can add Quad-DSD and Ethernet Renderer - this looks quite good.)

[matthias]

MSB advertises against DSD to PCM conversion and presents their DSD as even more kosher than delta sigma through their mapping to 1.4 Mhz 24 bits.

 

Does this mean DSD is converted to PCM 1.4 MHz/24 bits?

 

Matt

[Priaptor]

Just read the MSB page. I like the optical connections and the overall flexibility/modularity - that is awesome. I do think there is a lot of engineering to justify the price. Would be interesting to see if they lowered price in half if that actually increased sales. It may not. Maybe at 20k they would move a lot of units. (Once you are at 50k, why not go 90?). Like Soundlabs, I spoke to them once and they actually can make an 8k speaker but they enjoy the white-glove customer experience and the relationship and are happy only doing super-high end and engaging with most of their customers directly, even if the 8k speaker would make them a lot more money in the end. Maybe MSB feels the same.

 

As to the RCA cable, I actually think the 25k RCA cable is actually a psychology experiment they are doing in concert with a few University Professors. That would explain it. Maybe they will publish a paper about ABX, subjective vs measurements, purchasing decision making, psycho-acoustics, etc. next year. I look forward to seeing the results of their experiment.

 

(EDIT: Just saw the MSB Analog, much cheaper, starts around 7k, then can add Quad-DSD and Ethernet Renderer - this looks quite good.)

 

Yes the Analog is their "entry level" DAC. While 7k if you want their better power supply it does up the price.

[firedog]

Acc'd to the Atlantic web page, DSD 512 is available only in a "DSD only" version that doesn't do PCM at all.

From what I understand, the Atlantic converts DSD to PCM?

 

Actually, any of the chipless DSD implémentations will convert the DSD at whatever native rate it is fed. There is no need for "mapping" or any additives or préservatives when handing the delicate DSD Stream.

 

Me personally, I see a clear sweetspot with the Lampi Atlantic Dac, where for about $5 to 6K in total, I would get the standard R2R implementation with PCM 384 and DSD256 autoswitching AND a Chipless DSD512 module when I want to do the highest rate upsampling. Yes, this indeed available (I asked) and the Feather in the cap is that the native rate playback is superb...so upsampling is NOT obligatory, but a fun exercise when one wants to do extreme audiophile listening, or when hosting a Rave! I prefer this even to the DSD512 only Atlantic Dac, due to the versatility.

 

The Atlanic range uses DH Pentodes in Triode mode, so have extended HF compared to DHTs. A sort of Lampi sound with SS influences. A bit more expensive than the Dac 8, but a many trick pony...with no Chips Inside at all. The Dac 8 is reportedly outstanding at DSD512, but opinions are mixed about native rate playback. Noise floor is very low.

[tranz]

Yes the Analog is their "entry level" DAC. While 7k if you want their better power supply it does up the price.

 

And sadly for the wallet the upgraded power supply makes a difference.

[wisnon]

Acc'd to the Atlantic web page, DSD 512 is available only in a "DSD only" version that doesn't do PCM at all.

From what I understand, the Atlantic converts DSD to PCM?

No Dan, you can get any flavor you want. Basic is R2R ppm and dsd256. There is the homage dSD512 with chinless engine, BUT I asked Lukasz and he says that you can't the basic with th Chipless 512 as a paid option. He didn't say a price, but I guess its a thousand euro more or so.

 

There is no dsd to ppm conversion for any Lampizator product.

[chad-ra]

Hey Guys, last time I was here T+A had sold out and were starting new production runs to re-stock. DAC 8 DSD's landed in the US last night! They should be arriving at our warehouses today and then on to dealers and customers.

 

You can see all the dealers that have them on demo here: T+A's DAC 8 DSD

[Noodeling]

T&A DAC 8 DSD is hard to get in Germany too.

Sold out

here:

https://www.euronics.de/170449/dac-8-dsd-v-1.0-digital-analog-wandler-schwarz-silber

 

And here:

http://www.rae-akustik.de/highend-hifi-shop/T-A-DAC-8-DSD-High-End-D-A-Converter-inkl-Fernbedienung

 

And so on...

[shahed99]

I wonder why the price is so high in USD. It is priced 2750 euro which is $3072 in USD. But it is sold for about $4000 in US.

[EdmontonCanuck]

I wonder why the price is so high in USD. It is priced 2750 euro which is $3072 in USD. But it is sold for about $4000 in US.

 

...and $5600 in Canada!

[shahed99]

...and $5600 in Canada!

 

ouch! It's great for this hobby when a product represents great value and punches above its price class. T+A Dac8 DSD seems to fall into that class. However, increasing price due to market demand may negate the whole reason it got so popular to begin with. I hope there's an appropriate reason for the higher than usual price in the north american market. Import tax?!

[Miska]

I wonder why the price is so high in USD. It is priced 2750 euro which is $3072 in USD. But it is sold for about $4000 in US.

 

If you look at price of US products in Europe, the price difference is similar. For example in Finland, there's 24% VAT added on top. Distributor usually adds 30% profit margin and dealer adds another 30% profit on top. So you need to check shipping costs, customs, taxes and number of hands between manufacturer and you.

 

And we are not yet talking about cars which seem to get extra tax and customs treatment everywhere!

[audio.bill]

Just to be fair about the pricing, when products are imported for distribution in other regions there are significant costs involved. Besides the shipping cost there are additional expenses for their staff and product storage, providing technical support, and warranty coverage. It is typical for products to have significantly higher prices outside of their home market to cover additional expenses, as well as to provide the profit required for a distributor's business to exist. I have no connection to the manufacturer or distributor.

[shahed99]

Great points by Miska and audio.bill. However, even in UK the MSRP for Dac8 is 2400 GBP ($3150 in USD). So, I guess north american market is usually more expensive for european product and vice versa.

[EdmontonCanuck]

ouch! It's great for this hobby when a product represents great value and punches above its price class. T+A Dac8 DSD seems to fall into that class. However, increasing price due to market demand may negate the whole reason it got so popular to begin with. I hope there's an appropriate reason for the higher than usual price in the north american market. Import tax?!

 

$4000 USD was close to $5600 CAD at time of release to Canada, so that's why it is what it is.

[wisnon]

Great points by Miska and audio.bill. However, even in UK the MSRP for Dac8 is 2400 GBP ($3150 in USD). So, I guess north american market is usually more expensive for european product and vice versa.

 

Usually stuff like this is set at an average long term exchange rate. Manufacturers dont nornmally go about adjusting prices on FX fluctuations. They know the occassional "wins" compensate for the occassional losses over time.

[CatManDo]

I think the price outside the Eurozone is exceptionally high in this case.

 

Most electronic products are currently sold for a similar amount in $ and €, which means that the price in € is significantly higher, and that is to a great extent explained by the inclusion of VAT (20% on average).

 

BTW, T+A has been one of the most popular high end brands in Germany for more than 20 years, but is hardly known outside the country. They are not particularly active in promoting their products abroad.

[wisnon]

Cat,

 

You are probably right.

 

The implied FX rate is 1.46 and I would expect more like 1.3, so it's $400 "overpriced".

 

It may be the US distributor jacking up retail due to it being a "hot" product.

[EuroDriver]

Just like Rolexes are cheaper in Hong Kong, the T+A DAC 8 DSD list price is HK $ 25,000 which equals US 3,223

[jamesg11]

Just like Rolexes are cheaper in Hong Kong, the T+A DAC 8 DSD list price is HK $ 25,000 which equals US 3,223

Which HK store is that? Details?