Jump to content

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

It has boh pure PCM and DSD output capability.

 

If for PCM playback the DAC is using new Burr-Brown chips, they are of hybrid type; their first 6bits are PCM and the next 24bits Delta Sigma Modulation.

Edited by Hiro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you sure the new T+A DAC 8 DSD uses new Burr Brown PCM DAC chips compared to its predecessor, the DAC 8? If yes, do you know by chance the chips' product name/number?


Best Regards, Raimund

 

Living Room

Apple Mac mini Mid 2011 (MacOS Sierra 10.12.6, 64 GB OWC SSD, 16 GB OWC RAM, iTunes 12.9, Pure Music 3.09c) -> artistic fidelity USB cable -> artistic fidelity External USB-Module -> 3 Fibre Optical Cables -> artistic fidelity afis / arfi-psu -> artistic fidelity RJ45 cable -> artistic fidelity arfi-dac2 / arfi-psu -> artistic fidelity XLR-to-BNC cable -> Bakoon HPA-21 Headamp + Sennheiser HD 800

Home Office

Apple Mac mini End 2018 (MacOS Mojave 10.14.6, 128 GB SSD, 8 GB RAM, iTunes 12.9.5, Pure Music 3.09c) -> artistic fidelity USB cable -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital / Pro-Ject Accu Box S2 USB PSU -> Abacus C-Box 2 Active Speakers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are you sure the new T+A DAC 8 DSD uses new Burr Brown PCM DAC chips compared to its predecessor, the DAC 8? If yes, do you know by chance the chips' product name/number?

 

From the white paper marketing pdf linked on page one, Burr Brown is really all that is mentioned, not the model, and the chipsets are hidden by T+A stickers on them:

 

"The core of the DAC 8 DSD is the converter. As in our high-end players this device also employs the superior quadruple arrangement with eight 32-bit converters from Burr-Brown in a double symmetrical circuit. "

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
From the white paper marketing pdf linked on page one, Burr Brown is really all that is mentioned, not the model, and the chipsets are hidden by T+A stickers on them:

 

"The core of the DAC 8 DSD is the converter. As in our high-end players this device also employs the superior quadruple arrangement with eight 32-bit converters from Burr-Brown in a double symmetrical circuit. "

 

What we know, however, is that 32-bit "pure PCM" DACs don't exist. They are just too difficult to manufacture, and so Delta Sigma Modulation is used instead, or some form of hybrid approach as in the case of 32-bit Burr-Brown DAC chips (6bits=PCM, 24bits=SDM).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, maybe this point will be moot if folks like Edward (Eurodriver) are right, that the DAC 8 DSD sweetspot is clearly DSD512 anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"The core of the DAC 8 DSD is the converter. As in our high-end players this device also employs the superior quadruple arrangement with eight 32-bit converters from Burr-Brown in a double symmetrical circuit. "

That was the same Marketing statement from T+A at the time they presented the original DAC 8. I am really only interested in the difference in the PCM DAC section between the current DAC 8 DSD and its predecessor, does anybody here know more details?


Best Regards, Raimund

 

Living Room

Apple Mac mini Mid 2011 (MacOS Sierra 10.12.6, 64 GB OWC SSD, 16 GB OWC RAM, iTunes 12.9, Pure Music 3.09c) -> artistic fidelity USB cable -> artistic fidelity External USB-Module -> 3 Fibre Optical Cables -> artistic fidelity afis / arfi-psu -> artistic fidelity RJ45 cable -> artistic fidelity arfi-dac2 / arfi-psu -> artistic fidelity XLR-to-BNC cable -> Bakoon HPA-21 Headamp + Sennheiser HD 800

Home Office

Apple Mac mini End 2018 (MacOS Mojave 10.14.6, 128 GB SSD, 8 GB RAM, iTunes 12.9.5, Pure Music 3.09c) -> artistic fidelity USB cable -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital / Pro-Ject Accu Box S2 USB PSU -> Abacus C-Box 2 Active Speakers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That was the same Marketing statement from T+A at the time they presented the original DAC 8. I am really only interested in the difference in the PCM DAC section between the current DAC 8 DSD and its predecessor, does anybody here know more details?

 

Here is a picture, it's a PCM1795 as it was in the DAC 8

 

image.jpg

 

image.jpg


Sound Test, Monaco

Consultant to Sound Galleries Monaco, and Taiko Audio Holland

e-mail [email protected]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, very helpful information!


Best Regards, Raimund

 

Living Room

Apple Mac mini Mid 2011 (MacOS Sierra 10.12.6, 64 GB OWC SSD, 16 GB OWC RAM, iTunes 12.9, Pure Music 3.09c) -> artistic fidelity USB cable -> artistic fidelity External USB-Module -> 3 Fibre Optical Cables -> artistic fidelity afis / arfi-psu -> artistic fidelity RJ45 cable -> artistic fidelity arfi-dac2 / arfi-psu -> artistic fidelity XLR-to-BNC cable -> Bakoon HPA-21 Headamp + Sennheiser HD 800

Home Office

Apple Mac mini End 2018 (MacOS Mojave 10.14.6, 128 GB SSD, 8 GB RAM, iTunes 12.9.5, Pure Music 3.09c) -> artistic fidelity USB cable -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital / Pro-Ject Accu Box S2 USB PSU -> Abacus C-Box 2 Active Speakers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oh no!! You removed the gold sticker responsible for the warm midrange glow! Luckily you dont use the pcm section anyway [emoji41]

 

What if the sticker also did shielding? :P :P :P


Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites

Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623

DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What if the sticker also did shielding? :P :P :P

 

the sticker is anodized aluminium, and it could well have a beneficial shielding effect

 

however even with the stickers on, DSD512 playback just leaves the nicest PCM playback this DAC can do in the parking lot for the sonic ball game


Sound Test, Monaco

Consultant to Sound Galleries Monaco, and Taiko Audio Holland

e-mail [email protected]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
the sticker is anodized aluminium, and it could well have a beneficial shielding effect

 

See?

 

however even with the stickers on, DSD512 playback just leaves the nicest PCM playback this DAC can do in the parking lot for the sonic ball game

 

I've read lots of good things about its DSD512 output; it would be great to compare it with either the Lampis if they can do that rate or the Merging+NADAC which is supposedly also very good for DSD.


Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites

Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623

DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FYI.

 

The below is taken from a review of the T+A PDP 3000 HV. While from a different range then the DAC 8 DSD its layout in the way it handles PCM and DSD is in many ways similar/same and gives some insight how PCM/DSD is done in the DAC 8 DSD, IMHE. Please note the quotes from the T+A Chief Design Engineer Lothar Wiemann.

 

To reinforce the company’s no-

compromise design approach, DSD data

fed into the PDP 3000 HV’s USB input

from a computer source is handled

entirely separately from PCM data, thereby

‘sticking up two fingers’ to competing

manufacturers who claim PCM and

DSD compatibility in their DACs while

employing delta-sigma DACs which – DSD

evangelists might rightly maintain – do not

replay DSD in a purist manner.

 

Says T+A’s chief design engineer Lothar

Wiemann: ‘We do not do a DSD to low-bit

PCM conversion. Rather than use an

integrated converter chip we have built a

real 1-bit converter using discrete parts, so

that the DSD signal is preserved without

any alterations. It’s based on a “weighted

sum of delayed samples” technology,

with a structure similar to a FIR filter with

a 1-bit delay line, the taps of this line

driving signal switches. The output of the

switches is summed via weighting resistors

(representing the filter coefficients) and

voilà, there’s our analogue output signal

together with [first stage] high frequency

noise filtering. The structure is simple but

the devil is in the detail. For example, it’s

vitally important to have literally a jitter-

free clock for the switching stages"

 

For conversion of PCM sources the PDP’s

DAC section is largely identical to that

featured in the company’s MP 3000 HV

media player, except that here the DAC’s

analogue filter and output stages work

with higher supply voltages. It employs

eight of TI’s Burr-Brown 32-bit/384kHz

delta-sigma DACs in a ‘double symmetrical’

quadruple arrangement, with oversampling

carried out by a 56-bit DSP and with four

digital filter options that can be selected

via remote control [see boxout].

 

The PCM DAC and DSD decoder employ

individually-tailored output sections.

Lothar Wiemann again: ‘We wanted filters

that precisely match the requirements

of each format. The output stages differ

in their analogue filter response – filter

order, slope, cut-off frequency, etc

. A “combination filter” would have been

too big a compromise and a filter with

switched characteristics would have

meant additional circuit parts – switches, etc

– adding noise and distortion. So to

avoid deteriorating the performance we’ve

included separate and independent filter

and output sections.’


Ambassador for Sound Galleries Monaco and Taiko Audio The Netherlands 

Sound Test USA

[email protected]

 

Sound Galleries SGM 2015 Music Server>ROON-all rates up-sampled to DSD512 by HQ Player>Sablon Reserva 2017 USB>T+A DAC 8 DSD>Merrill Audio Veritas Ncore NC1200 Mono Amps>B&W 802D>High Fidelity Cables Interconnect, Speaker & Power Cords for Amps & SGM & T+A>Power Conditioning High Fidelity MC-6 Hemisphere>T+A & Hemisphere supported by Stillpoints Ultra Mini - B&W 802D & Veritas supported by Stillpoints Ultra SS>All sitting on IKEA Aptitlig bamboo butcher blocks - Taiko Audio Setchi active grounding on SGM & T+A

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I've had my T+A burning in for the last 48hrs or so, 95% DSD 512 with HQ Player. HQ Player set to poly sinc short mp, ASDM7, SDM ofcourse. Rest of system is Kef Blades, Hypex Ncore NC400s, with a little bass mode room correction and live end/dead end accoustic treatment. There's an Intona USB 2 isolator in place too, though might not need this with the T+A. Existing dac is an Auralic Vega, which I also ran with HQ Player albeit at DSD 128.

 

First impressions are very positive. Gone is any sign of hardness, that the Vega often drifted into when things got dynamic, starting to think that's a Sabre 'trait'. Ladder based analog volume control is unsurprisingly a lot better at lower levels. Levels of precision (stage and depth) and dynamics breathtakingly good. Vocal presence I've not heard before.

 

EuroDriver is certainly onto something. I'm putting the Auralic Vega on sale this weekend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
the sticker is anodized aluminium, and it could well have a beneficial shielding effect

 

however even with the stickers on, DSD512 playback just leaves the nicest PCM playback this DAC can do in the parking lot for the sonic ball game

 

If the aluminium sticker came off there would be less shielding and more sparks :P


AS Profile Equipment List        Say NO to MQA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So I've had my T+A burning in for the last 48hrs or so,

 

Awesome.... very interested and will find it at AXPONA later this month. If I may ask, where do you live and where did you purchase?


 

Analog:  VPI Scoutmaster / Shelter 501MkII, Sony XRD1 HD FM, Nakamichi BX-300  Music Server:  i7-6700K/Asus RTX2080 OC Gaming, HQPlayer

DACs:  dCS Debussy, Lampizator Golden Atlantic, McIntosh D150 / MCT450 CD/SACD

Digital Add-ons:  Uptone JS-2s and LPS-1s, ISO REGENS     NAA:  NUCs (2), SoTM SMS-200 Ultra / tX-USB Ultra / Network Switch Clock Mod

Preamp:  McIntosh C500P (SS)   Amp:  McIntosh MC452

Speakers:  Wilson Yvette    Signal Cables:  Transparent Ultra Gen V    Power Cables:  Shunyata and PS Audio

GIK Room Treatments   PS Audio P10 AC Regenerators (2)  Dedicated 20 AMP AC circuit

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
hifial

 

very informative excerpt

 

Meanwhile we are using the T+A DAC 8 DSD to incubate the next generation of audiophiles

 

I am sure you are doing a fine job there!

 

Btw, I woul like to hear opinions about the matching amplifier, amp8.

Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Btw, I woul like to hear opinions about the matching amplifier, amp8.

Thanks.

 

You can put this link in Chrome and read about the duo of DAC 8 and AMP 8

Test T+A DAC 8 und T+A AMP 8

 

However the DAC 8 DSD being fed DSD512 by HQ Player is on a completely different sonic planet from the DAC 8, the AMP 8 is no longer an appropriate match at it's retail price of Euro 1,750.

 

You would do much better with one on the Hypex NC500 based amps


Sound Test, Monaco

Consultant to Sound Galleries Monaco, and Taiko Audio Holland

e-mail [email protected]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We had a big get together at my house this past weekend to audition the T+A DAC 8 DSD. Four of us, Zorntel, Hifial, Eurodriver and myself were in attendance.

 

Wow! What a DAC! Everyone was blown away by DSD 512! Hifial said it was the best he has ever heard the live version of Hotel California from Hell Freezes Over. Upsampling a redbook copy, it sounds amazing. Next we listened to Gregory Porters solo performance of "God Bless the Child", also Redbook. Sitting on the sidelines, I could watch everyone's jaw hit the floor! Totally spine tingling! Lastly we up-sampled Patricia Barbers " Let it Rain" live performance from Companion from DSD64 to 512. This was the biggest surprise for me. You were in the club with ambient sound from the venue all around. Someone said it was like having pinpoint imaging, but without the sharp point.

 

There is a huge difference between DSD256 and 512, there is just more emotion conveyed at DSD 512.

 

We listened to a hastily built PC with a I7-6700k, Asus z170 mobo, 8gb crucial ballistic RAM, Seasonic fanless 400 watt PSU, and ISCSI boot with upsampling via Hqplayer. A Scythe low profile fan and heatsink were used for cooling. The 220 volt T+A was powered by a step up transformer.

 

Hifial brought along Stillpoint minis. It's crazy what a difference they make supporting both the DAC and computer case. He also brought along a Curious USB cable. While the Curious changes the sound, votes are still out on the benefit.

 

We all agreed that this was the future of DAC design. The simple chipless DSD DAC design in the T+A is the way to go!

 

Anyway, very cool!

Edited by lmitche

nuckleheadaudio.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Rutherford Audio should have the DAC 8 DSD, I don't have the booth # handy, but I know the booth will be in the marketplace. We are waiting on our T+A shipment from Germany, that will have the DAC 8 DSD on it.

 

Hmm, if it's at a table in The Marketplace at AXPONA vs. a Room, would this be a demo with headphones vs. speakers?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We had a big get together at my house this past weekend to audition the T+A DAC 8 DSD. Four of us, Zorntel, Hifial, Eurodriver and myself were in attendance.

 

Wow! What a DAC! Everyone was blown away by DSD 512! Hifial said it was the best he has ever heard the live version of Hotel California from Hell Freezes Over. Upsampling a redbook copy, it sounds amazing. Next we listened to Gregory Porters solo performance of "God Bless the Child", also Redbook. Sitting on the sidelines, I could watch everyone's jaw hit the floor! Totally spine tingling! Lastly we up-sampled Patricia Barbers " Let it Rain" live performance from Companion from DSD64 to 512. This was the biggest surprise for me. You were in the club with ambient sound from the venue all around. Someone said it was like having pinpoint imaging, but without the sharp point.

 

There is a huge difference between DSD256 and 512, there is just more emotion conveyed at DSD 512.

 

We listened to a hastily built PC with a I7-6700k, Asus z170 mobo, 8gb crucial ballistic RAM, Seasonic fanless 400 watt PSU, and ISCSI boot with upsampling via Hqplayer. A Scythe low profile fan and heatsink were used for cooling. The 220 volt T+A was powered by a step up transformer.

 

Hifial brought along Stillpoint minis. It's crazy what a difference they make supporting both the DAC and computer case. He also brought along a Curious USB cable. While the Curious changes the sound, votes are still out on the benefit.

 

We all agreed that this was the future of DAC design. The simple chipless DSD DAC design in the T+A is the way to go!

 

Anyway, very cool!

 

Thanks for these nice report!

Could you inform about the rest of the setup?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We had a big get together at my house this past weekend to audition the T+A DAC 8 DSD. Four of us, Zorntel, Hifial, Eurodriver and myself were in attendance.

 

Wow! What a DAC! Everyone was blown away by DSD 512!

 

Thanks for the cool report, Larry.


Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites

Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623

DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...