T+a dac 8 dsd

[mav52]

13 minutes ago, CatManDo said:

It's not the only way. It's the most convenient way. There is also the RS232 connection method.

 

I think the MP8 is a very underwhelming product. It has the type of features of a $500 streamer (more "lifestyle"-centered than audiophile), and no DSD support so far. Like the AMP8, it's not in the same league as the DAC8 DSD, plus it's overpriced.

 

Thanks

[louisxiawei]

21 hours ago, guiltyboxswapper said:

Thanks @louisxiawei

 

Out of interest, how does one "initiate service" once the firmware has been upgraded with an MP8?  Is it simply a menu option? 

Yes, it’s a hidden feature of DAC8 DSD and you can pop it out by pressing certain button combo.

[louisxiawei]

1 hour ago, CatManDo said:

MP8 is a very underwhelming product. It has the type of features of a $500 streamer (more "lifestyle"-centered than audiophile), and no DSD support so far.

From one MP8 user’s experience I know, MP8 can stream DSD, it has a DAC8 link, which can pass the USB signal from PC to DAC8 DSD via MP8.

 

e.g. : PC -> DSD512 -> MP8 -> DAC8 DSD

 

Though It’s weird that MP8 manual/specification does not even mention a word about supporting DSD.

[CatManDo]

Thanks. But I would expect it to play DSD files itself, from a USB drive, a computer share or NAS.

 

Playing files is usually what you buy a streamer for (besides the online streams), to avoid using a computer as a playback source. An audiophile streamer that does not support playing DSD files is too limited.

[blue2]

3 hours ago, CatManDo said:

... Like the AMP8, it's not in the same league as the DAC8 DSD, plus it's overpriced.

 

Interesting comment. The UK prices have gone up quite a bit: ~£2K for the AMP8 but still a bit cheaper than the £2.6K for DAC8. Against what other amps did you evaluate the AMP8?

[blue2]

On ‎6‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 4:59 AM, bibo01 said:

Probably because I have been pestering Amanero all this time...and I do not even have a T&A DAC (although I would like to)

Any news about an official release or firmware upgrade being made available from T+A?

[christoph]

On 8/15/2018 at 11:47 AM, blue2 said:

Any news about an official release or firmware upgrade being made available from T+A?

It is very close, just a matter of days.

Like it has been for over a year now.

Or was it two years in the meantime?

[juanitox]

talking about firmware , how to know we have T+A dac8 DSD V2.0 or not ?

[wolft]

T+A dac8 DSD V2.0 ?

[juanitox]

1 hour ago, wolft said:

T+A dac8 DSD V2.0 ?

last DAC8DSD  don't have the same firmware as older models

[mav52]

56 minutes ago, juanitox said:

last DAC8DSD  don't have the same firmware as older models

 

Trouble is, how do you know, how do you check it.   

[juanitox]

Quote

we have added few more dsd native DACs  support on USBridge.

driver available :

 

Denon DA-300USB

Marantz HD-DAC1

Marantz SA-14S1

TEAC UD-501/UD-503/NT-503

Esoteric D-05X

T+A DAC8DSD-V2.0

 

now you can begin to question yourself ,  V2.0 or not V20 ? ?

[sbenyo]

It will be a shame if there will be a v2 or even just new ones sold with updated firmware and no solution for the veteran users that put their faith in T+A DAC and waited patiently for an update. I think T+A must come with a solution how to be able to update safely without forcing us to use MP8 or other expensive or non existent solution.

 

 

[guiltyboxswapper]

1 hour ago, sbenyo said:

It will be a shame if there will be a v2 or even just new ones sold with updated firmware and no solution for the veteran users that put their faith in T+A DAC and waited patiently for an update. I think T+A must come with a solution how to be able to update safely without forcing us to use MP8 or other expensive or non existent solution.

 

 

 

There is a way to do this at home without an MP8; but it involves a custom RS232 cable and dropping down to a terminal to get the firmware upto v2.70.  There is a risk of a dead unit this way, though I did power cycle between a mistake of my own making (tried using cuteCom - no dice) and managed to bootstrap it back to life again.  T+A can confirm that.

 

Once the unit is running v2.70 its literally a case of a few button combinations and you can reprogramme the Amanero's flash very easily without modifying the DAC itself, including rollbacks if necessary.

 

Anyhow, the more pressing question - is 2004BE stable?  Not fully.  The current firmware is pushing the MCU so hard, that you eventually get phase drift noises.  I've gone to the length of adding a passive heatsink to the Amanero MCU which has helped keep this at bay, although could do better on the cooling (i.e. a better fitting heatsink).

 

2004BE has no Windows drivers currently released to my knowledge.  

 

I will leave it to T+A to decide if they want to publish the above method for fear of random people nuking their own DACs!

[sbenyo]

On 6/30/2018 at 2:38 PM, louisxiawei said:

Some updates of T+A DAC8 DSD firmware upgrade progress:

 

With some great help from T+A (Lothar Wiemann), I've managed to upgrade the firmware via RS232 approach. Lothar is really a helpful gentleman being very supportive regarding this matter.

 

In general, my upgrade experience matches what @RS241 said a year ago.

 

Especially this:

 

Hence, my DAC8 DSD now has been re-flashed to Amanero and the PC reads it as Amanero device and it must be used with Amanero driver (Combo384 ASIO 1.03), T+A driver will not work.

 

Please note that: Currently there is no way back to the T+A firmware once it is re-flashed to Amanero.

 

Current Amanero firmware used on DAC8 DSD is:

CPLD firmware: CPLD_for_1080

CPU firmware: DSD512x48x44

 

I've been testing it for quite a few hours, so far, the "pop sound" issue from the R channel previously reported seems to be solved.

 

One might ask: does this firmware support linux DSD512?  The answer is no.

 

But good news is: Amanero firmware 2004be is the one that supports linux DSD512. So, once this manual FW upgrade was done, one can have total freedom to try any latest Amanero firmware on DAC8 DSD. I have not tried the 2004be on DAC8 DSD yet, but this might be the potential way to experience DSD512 on linux.

 

Also, be aware that Amanero windows driver does not work with 2004be at the moment (that is also why T+A cannot issue a 2004be firmware update).

 

Regarding the detail of the FW upgrade without opening the enclosure:

 

Two steps in general:

 

1. Update the DAC8 DSD firmware to V2.6 onwards

2. initiate service of DAC8 DSD and use oemtool117 to flash the firmware

 

Step two is very safe and easy, I have nothing to comment.

 

The step one can be safely done with the help of T+A MP8, and this is also the way T+A recommends. If you don't have access to MP8, then you need to use RS232 connection as S0133 service note described for the upgrade. This is the method I used and is not very recommended by T+A. It is highly risky to turn your DAC8 DSD into a brick because it has no recovery mechanism.

There are some tricks during the upgrade and it was a bit nervy indeed since I failed three times during the RS232 upgrade. 

 

Another good news is: Lothar has been writing a programme for PC to do a safe upgrade with secure recovery for DAC8 DSD. But it might take some time since he uses his own spare time doing it. For those who dare not upgrade it manually at risk or don't have a MP8, this might be the best solution for all. So again, patience is a good virtue.

 

I might open a thread about my experience of this risky upgrade if I have enough spare time or there is an increasing need for the FW upgrade. But I doubt T+A will support this since it raises chance to send broken unit to the factory and causes more trouble.

 

Does anyone know about Lothar writing a program to safely update / recover DAC8 DSD?

[wolft]

He writes me: " Das ist ein Privatprojekt von mir - also kein offizielles T+A Tool.
Wann es fertig wird kann ich leider noch nicht sagen. " It's a private project.

[mav52]

2 hours ago, wolft said:

He writes me: " Das ist ein Privatprojekt von mir - also kein offizielles T+A Tool.
Wann es fertig wird kann ich leider noch nicht sagen. " It's a private project.

 

A Private project,  thats doesn't help the total ownership population with their dacs,  T&A needs to provide a means to update without having to ship a dac around the world or being forced into buying another piece of their equipment.  

[RS241]

On 8/24/2018 at 2:21 PM, mav52 said:

 

A Private project,  thats doesn't help the total ownership population with their dacs,  T&A needs to provide a means to update without having to ship a dac around the world or being forced into buying another piece of their equipment.  

 

Regarding firmware upgrade and Linux compatibility I received this statement from T+A:

 

Linux is not officially supported by the DAC8DSD as operating system for the USB source.

T+A has never claimed that the DAC8 or DAC8DSD are Linux compatible.

According to our tests DAC8DSD works with Linux sources with PCM up to 192/32 and with DSD up to DSD128 (DoP).

 

Updating the DAC8DSD firmware is normally not necessary. There is no difference in sound quality between the different versions of DAC8DSD firmware.

Also there are only some minor new features.

List of new features for DAC8DSD and firmware version of introduction: 

V 2.20: Auto Power Down feature

V 2.30: Additional volume display mode (Volume display either in dB or volume steps 1...63)

V 2.60: Service routine for flashing Amanero USB receiver firmware

              Support for new remote control hanset FM8

              Support for MusicNavigator APP (via MP8)

V 2.70: Additions for "Roon Ready" in combination with MP8

The major improvements were the "Roon Ready" feature and the control through the T+A Music Navigator App. Both features are only available in combination with the network player MP8. In this case the necessary firmware update will be done by the MP8.

 

So for the moment according to T+A there is no need for firmware updates, except when using a DAC8DSD in combination with a MP8 and in this case MP8 takes care of the necessary updates.

 

An other quote from T+A regarding Linux + DSD512:

We have made extensive tests with the latest Amanero firmware versions and we still found some glitches like occasional distortion when playing back DSD512 from a Linux PC. As long as these problems are not completely solved we will not officially release a Linux compatible DAC8DSD firmware.

 

I think that those who want to try the latest Amanero firmware on their DAC8DSD an update tool like mentioned above would be a nice thing to have. It would give total freedom to use any of the original Amanero USB receiver firmware versions and to experiment.

If they are buggy it would be easy to go back to the standard Amanero firmware.

The only disadvantage of changing over to Amanero firmware is that the DAC8DSD will be detected as an Amanero device by the computer and thatthe  Amanero (Windows) driver will have to be used instead of the T+A driver. For Linux this does not make a difference.

 

 

In this respect it would be interesting to hear from   @louisxiawei  if he has heard of any progress with that update tool ?

 

 

 

[RS241]

57 minutes ago, RS241 said:

 

 

In this respect it would be interesting to hear from  @louisxiawei  if he has heard of any progress with that update tool ?

 

 

 

 

... sorry it should have read:

In this respect it would be interesting to hear from    @louisxiawei  and   @ wolft  if they have heard of any progress with that update tool ?

 

[RS241]

 

Next try:

In this respect it would be interesting to hear from @louisxiawei and @wolft  if they have heard of any progress with that update tool ?

 

[Ben-M]

23 hours ago, RS241 said:

Next try:

In this respect it would be interesting to hear from @louisxiawei and @wolft  if they have heard of any progress with that update tool ?

 

2

Third time's the charm!

 

I'm also wondering how things have gone with either of them. 

 

And what about Amanero? I know they/he aren't a big operation, but I'd love to hear some great news about the DSD512 over Linux & Windows issue having been sorted out 100%. 

[twluke]

On 9/7/2018 at 1:44 AM, RS241 said:

 

Next try:

In this respect it would be interesting to hear from @louisxiawei and @wolft  if they have heard of any progress with that update tool ?

 

 

This morning I flashed the Amanero firmware on DAC 8 DSD to 2004be after updating the DAC firmware to Version 2.70 as shown below and am enjoying the sound of native DSD512 on linux (Ubuntu 18.04) via Roon/HQP with this DAC.

 

I've been quite aware of the noise issue pertinent to 2004be for DSD512 on linux in other DACs as reported elsewhere and the DAC 8 DSD after flashing was also not immune to it. However the results are not so discouraging. The noise does not occur so frequently, almost the same to what I experienced with Holo Audio Cyan, and its duration is usually within a few seconds, quite neglectable unless deeply focused on hearing. Apart from this noise issue, the SQ is quite satisfactory as expected and I'm going to live with this 2004be firmware for a while.

 

Well, sorry for my long introduction. After reading some posts concerning the methods to update the DAC 8 DSD firmware via RS232 in order to flash the Amanero firmware, I prepared a set of cutomized serial cable and plug for RS232 connection and confirmed them to work well for communication with the DAC by using an appropriate serial communication tool (CoolTerm both on Mac and Win10).

 

After that I sent a query mail about the availability of the latest DAC firmware to the T+A support. They were kind enough to send me a set of software and PDF manuals by e-mail. Among them, the TA_DAC8_ServiceTool, a kind of prefixed serial communication tool specially designed for DAC 8 DSD was, I would say, of a great help for fool-proof proceeding of updating work. No other serial application is required: only to prepare a set of RS232 cable and plug is sufficient for it. The related manual was also well written: quite comprehensive and intuitive. It was amazing to find the various combinations of buttons on the front DAC panel to work like commands as written in it. I'm quite grateful to Mr Lothar Wiemann at T+A for writing these excellent application and manuals.

 

Once the DAC firmware is updated to the latest V 2.70, Amanero firmware can be repeatedly flashed to check the different versions. If a noise-free condition is desired on linux, flashing to 1099c firmware with DSD256 in DoP will be perfect for now. Also, when using 2004be for DSD512, a particular CPLD (CPLD_1080_DSDSWAPPED) must be used to avoid channel swap, which has been known to occur in certain DACs.

 

As said before by someone, PID and VID of the DAC become Amanero: only a small, neglectable alteration. Otherwise there is no change in ordinary use of the DAC.

 

Regards,

[gdpr]

On 9/7/2018 at 6:38 PM, Ben-M said:

Third time's the charm!

 

I'm also wondering how things have gone with either of them. 

 

And what about Amanero? I know they/he aren't a big operation, but I'd love to hear some great news about the DSD512 over Linux & Windows issue having been sorted out 100%. 

 

Would it be possible for someone with a good relationship with Amanero, to enquire if it would be possible to produce a Linux ONLY driver, capable of correct native DSD512.

 

I do believe this would sattisfy al lot of users with DAC's, making use of the Amanero USB module.

I also believe that most users do not require a solution that supports both Windows and Linux.  

Even if DAC manufacturers would hesitate (or even refuse) to support  this Linux only firmware, we as end-customer  will be able to decide if we take that responsibilty ourselves, just as twluke has done.

I know I will, but it would be nice to have access to a 'certified' firmware.  

2004be seems to come close, and with Windowds support dropped, maybe it can easily be finetuned for flawless Linux operation

 

Dirk

[Ben-M]

4 minutes ago, ddetaey said:

 

Would it be possible for someone with a good relationship with Amanero, to enquire if it would be possible to produce a Linux ONLY driver, capable of correct native DSD512.

 

I do believe this would sattisfy al lot of users with DAC's, making use of the Amanero USB module.

I also believe that most users do not require a solution that supports both Windows and Linux.  

Even if DAC manufacturers would hesitate (or even refuse) to support  this Linux only firmware, we as end-customer  will be able to decide if we take that responsibilty ourselves, just as twluke has done.

I know I will, but it would be nice to have access to a 'certified' firmware.  

2004be seems to come close, and with Windowds support dropped, maybe it can easily be finetuned for flawless Linux operation

 

Dirk

I see your point, but I literally need both to be supported. Haha.

 

I was really hoping that popping noise that was found and alerted to T+A earlier would have pressed them to find an official way to solve the issue, and get Linux support going at the same time, but that seems like it's fallen off the radar now. Sadly. I also have noticed this problem with my DAC and it's annoying once it's known. 

 

Then with 2004be, has Windows support been "dropped", or is Amanero just trying to solve 1 problem at a time and the problem solving for Linux has just resulted in Windows support temporarily disabled? 

[OE333]

Hi All,

encouraged by some positive comments by @louisxiawei and @twluke I have decided to register on this forum.

I was involved in the development of the DAC8DSD and I offer my help for all questions around this DAC.

But please be aware that I am here not as a T+A official but as a private member.

All I write here is not in any way initiated or officially approved by T+A - it will always be just my private opinion...

 

As I have seen there are a couple of requests for DSD512 support for Linux PCs or Linux based Network Audio Adapters.

Linux is up to this moment not officially supported by the DAC8DSD - but Linux can be used as a source in DoP mode up to DSD128.

This was already posted here before. I can confirm that Amanero (originator of the USB receiver firmware) and T+A are working hard to support higher rates up to DSD512 in native mode.

I don't want to promise anything but it seems that there is some prograess with this recently (for more details see here: https://github.com/lintweaker/xmos-native-dsd/issues/12 ) .

 

I think I will be able to give more information on this topic in short while.

 

L.