T+a dac 8 dsd

[Miska]

With PCM inputs it is just an ordinary DAC with TI's PCM1795 DAC chips in mono mode... And the digital filter with limited output rate limiting the output resolution, so you get some correlated images in the output.

[emcdade]

6 hours ago, Miska said:

With PCM inputs it is just an ordinary DAC with TI's PCM1795 DAC chips in mono mode... And the digital filter with limited output rate limiting the output resolution, so you get some correlated images in the output.

I'll be doing the DSD side, I think i'm just paranoid about using my Windows PC as a source again.  Excited to try out your software Miska, I've heard nothing but superlatives.

[ronnie.sengupta]

I just listened to the Harry Potter track multiple times with my ear glued to the speaker. Can't hear a pop. I will try headphones later today and report back.

 

Poly-sinx-xtr-mp2s : AMSDM7 512 + fs 

[PieterP]

On 5/15/2018 at 12:54 PM, bibo01 said:

FYI: From the dsc1 thread on diyaudio I understand that a new firmware version 2004be is available for Amanero:

 http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/254935-signalyst-dsc1-90.html#post5453178

 

[louisxiawei]

Just give you guys an update:

 

I reported the "faint pop" issue to T+A  two days ago and today I got a detailed reply from Lothar Wiemann. Thumb up for their professional attitude. 

 

They were able to reproduce the problem as well and showed me a screenshot from an oscilloscope indicating the "pop" noise on the right channel. They found out that the pop occurs right at the output of the Amanero USB receiver and told me it is not a problem of the DAC circuit or the clocking circuitry / any other hardware problem.

 

I also shown them what we discussed here on CA and some @Miska technical reply explaining the potential reasons. They also think it's either the problem of Amanero windows driver or the USB receiver firmware. 

 

They've contacted the Amanero and will try to fix the problem. Will keep you updated.

 

[emcdade]

Just got my T+A Dac installed yesterday, and have to say I really love it so far.

 

If I had to describe the playback at DSD512 its like it takes the PCM skeleton of sound and adds real body, density, and color to it.  Real flesh and blood. This was with Roon upsampling, no fussing with hqplayer yet.

 

This was also straight from a Windows pc with no usb gizmos.  I tried an Iso Regen with it but I don’t think it improved the sound.  It made it feel kind of sluggish to be honest.  I need to give that longer evaluation.

 

I also tried my SMS-200 feeding the PCM side and it was no contest; Win PC feeding DSD512 was just much better.  My PC fears have been alleviated.  So either DSD512 is just THAT much better or this DAC’s usb input is much less sensitive than my Fostex to the source.

 

When I compared the PS Audio DirectStream to my Fostex HP-A8 I was completely underwhelmed.  I’m so glad I sold that and got the T+A Dac instead.  It sounds fantastic.

[emcdade]

Also of note, I tried a pair of neutrik XLR to RCA ADAPTERS on the DAC since my integrated only has unbalanced inputs.  I immediately heard clipping distortion when I tried this and yanked them.

 

Do you think the balanced outs were trying to send 4.5 volts out instead of 2 volts?

 

Has anyone found a way to go XLR to RCA on this DAC?  From reading I hear the XLR output is cleaner and worthwhile to pursue.

[Allan F]

On 6/5/2018 at 4:27 PM, emcdade said:

Also of note, I tried a pair of neutrik XLR to RCA ADAPTERS on the DAC since my integrated only has unbalanced inputs.  I immediately heard clipping distortion when I tried this and yanked them.

 

Do you think the balanced outs were trying to send 4.5 volts out instead of 2 volts?

 

Has anyone found a way to go XLR to RCA on this DAC?  From reading I hear the XLR output is cleaner and worthwhile to pursue.

 

The specs for the analog outputs of the DAC8 DSD are 5.0V for XLR and 2.5V for RCA. I don't know if this forum discussion may be of assistance. Is it safe to convert XLR to RCA

[asdf1000]

Like many I've been waiting for over 12 months for Native DSD512 Linux support to come to this DAC.

 

I'm a Mac user and only want my microRendu NAA in my listening room, with HQP Embedded outside the listening room.

 

While it's been slow it's nice to still see steady progress - they haven't given up.

 

Thanks @bibo01 for the updates and hopefully the great news we're all waiting for eventually comes.

 

[bibo01]

13 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

Like many I've been waiting for over 12 months for Native DSD512 Linux support to come to this DAC.

 

I'm a Mac user and only want my microRendu NAA in my listening room, with HQP Embedded outside the listening room.

 

While it's been slow it's nice to still see steady progress - they haven't given up.

 

Thanks @bibo01 for the updates and hopefully the great news we're all waiting for eventually comes.

 

Probably because I have been pestering Amanero all this time...and I do not even have a T&A DAC (although I would like to)

[asdf1000]

3 minutes ago, bibo01 said:

Probably because I have been pestering Amanero all this time...and I do not even have a T&A DAC (although I would like to)

 

I'm in the same boat - I don't have the DAC but my finger/mouse pointer has been locked and loaded on the 'buy now' button , for over 12 months, waiting for this. 

 

I'm not interested in a Windows NAA inside my listening room (just a personal thing).

 

I have 4 friends waiting for this update ready to buy this DAC also... We've all heard it on home demo and all use HQP but Linux support at DSD512 is essential for us.

 

[louisxiawei]

17 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

Like many I've been waiting for over 12 months for Native DSD512 Linux support to come to this DAC.

T+A will very likely come up with a firmware update solution recently since current one already have an issue when play 24.6M on windows OS as I previously reported. So the uncertain waiting might be finally ended since we now have an real issue on windows OS. No excuse for them. ?

 

I got the reply from T+A last week and was told that recent Amanero test is good but they didn't tell me if it's linux DSD512 supported. One thing interesting is: one of the firmware update solutions is to do it "over the air" through their MP8. But they need time to think more solutions to ensure the firmware upgrade is safe.

 

So finger crossed and be patient.

[PieterP]

@louisxiawei , can you explain ' over the air' and MP8? What does it mean? 

 

@bibo01, at the signalist dsc1 forum at diyaudio they tested 2nd june a new amanero firmware CPLD_for_1080, firmware_2004be, oem tool118. 

They find that there are still dsd 512 artifacts with linux native. Is that the new firmware that was foreseen? Or can we expect more new versions in the near future? 

 

[blue2]

@louisxiawei , can you explain ' over the air' and MP8? What does it mean? 

https://www.ta-hifi.de/en/audiosystems/series-8/mp-8/

Doesn't really make sense to require use a streamer? Why not just create an update tool for Windows/Mac/Linux - I think something already exists provided by Amanero?

@louisxiawei Pls keep us updated with your T+A Q&A and any further clarification you receive.

[louisxiawei]

OK. To be specific, there are two potential options to upgrade the DAC8 DSD firmware suggested by T+A from the previous email reply.

 

1. The way described in the attached service note S0133 and this approach requires users to open the enclosure.

2. T+A claims that the "official" way is updating the DAC8DSD firmware first, then use this latest firmware to update the Amanero. Just quote the originial reply "This way can either be done according the attached service note S0126 or if you have access to a T+A MP8 streamer it could be done "over the air" using the MP8." The detail of the upgrade with MP8 has not been said, though. 

 

If I recall correctly, some member on CA previously shared these S0126 and S0133 files before and T+A knows it, which suggests they are active online regarding the firmware update. ?

 

I also raise the concern about the warranty-void issue to them and hopefully, they will bring the proper solution eventually. 

 

So don't lose hope, at least I personally feel T+A is determined to solve this firmware problem this time.

S0126_DAC8DSD_FW_Update.pdf

S0133_Erasing_Amanero_Firmware_DAC8DSD.pdf

[CatManDo]

According to the MP8 manual, the MP8 - which can use it's internet connection for online firmware updates - can also update the DAC8 DSD firmware, when both devices are linked with the T+A system bus connection. But the DAC8 DSD must already have firmware 2.60 at least.

 

Page 58 of the manual:

 

"For updating the firmware of the MP 8 there is a convenient method which requires an existing Internet connection.

 

If you are operating the MP 8 in conjunction with a DAC 8 DSD, the machine [= the DAC] can also be updated via the SYS connection.

 

The wiring diagram for the machines is shown in 'Appendix A'.

 

The following section describes the exact method of updating the firmware in detail. For a correct function together with the MP 8, the DAC 8 DSD must have at least software version V2.60 installed. If no software version is displayed in the update menu, an update should be carried out in any case."

 

Updating via the Internet:

 

(...)

 

"If the MP 8 is connected to a DAC 8 DSD via the SYS connection, the Select Device menu appears at this point. In this case select the device to be updated and confirm your choice  by pressing the OK button"

 

https://www.ta-hifi.de/wp-content/uploads/UM_MP8_102_UK.pdf

 

The german text is actually clearer.

[emcdade]

I am having such a blast since putting this Dac in my system, what an absolute pleasure to listen to.  It is absolutely perfect for my tastes.

 

I ordered some Benchmark XLR to RCA cables that leave pin 3 floating, since a standard adapter was causing distortion.  I’ll report back after it arrives.

[asdf1000]

While me and my friends have been waiting patiently for 12+ months for DSD512 Linux support, the iFi Pro iDSD has (finally) popped up.

 

Like other iFi DAC's, DSD512 is supported on Linux.

 

Will be interesting if @Miska gets his hands on one for measurements and comparison with this DAC8 DSD.

 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, Em2016 said:

While me and my friends have been waiting patiently for 12+ months for DSD512 Linux support, the iFi Pro iDSD has (finally) popped up.

 

Like other iFi DAC's, DSD512 is supported on Linux.

 

Will be interesting if @Miska gets his hands on one for measurements and comparison with this DAC8 DSD.

 

At the moment I have no plans to buy it. From my perspective it is just like a micro iDSD BL with doubled DAC chips and 4x price.

 

For example Holo Audio has DSD512 options that are technically more similar (chipless) to DAC8 DSD.

 

Too bad the DAC8 DSD doesn't have Amanero board connector, because there are pin compatible XMOS based options that would work on Linux. But the Amanero firmware seems to be slowly getting there, so maybe at some point it would be possible to update it on DAC8 DSD (I didn't dare to try it yet, but I'm tempted).

 

[asdf1000]

2 minutes ago, Miska said:

But the Amanero firmware seems to be slowly getting there, so maybe at some point it would be possible to update it on DAC8 DSD (I didn't dare to try it yet, but I'm tempted).

 

Yep slowly moving forward is better than not moving at all.

 

As soon as you confirm it works with microRendu NAA with DSD512 , my order for the DAC8 DSD will be placed ?

 

[louisxiawei]

Some updates of T+A DAC8 DSD firmware upgrade progress:

 

With some great help from T+A (Lothar Wiemann), I've managed to upgrade the firmware via RS232 approach. Lothar is really a helpful gentleman being very supportive regarding this matter.

 

In general, my upgrade experience matches what @RS241 said a year ago.

 

Especially this:

Quote

the original Amanero firmware could be used. This would mean the T+A DAC would be seen as an Amanero device by the computer. This is because re-flashing with with the Amanero original firmware would re-program the USB VID and PID to the Amanero standard values in stead of the T+A PID/VID for DAC8DSD. So the T+A drivers for DAC8DSD will not work any more and the original Amanero drivers will have to be installed on the PC (at least on Windows PCs - no idea what will happen with Linux based sources).

 

Hence, my DAC8 DSD now has been re-flashed to Amanero and the PC reads it as Amanero device and it must be used with Amanero driver (Combo384 ASIO 1.03), T+A driver will not work.

 

Please note that: Currently there is no way back to the T+A firmware once it is re-flashed to Amanero.

 

Current Amanero firmware used on DAC8 DSD is:

CPLD firmware: CPLD_for_1080

CPU firmware: DSD512x48x44

 

I've been testing it for quite a few hours, so far, the "pop sound" issue from the R channel previously reported seems to be solved.

 

One might ask: does this firmware support linux DSD512?  The answer is no.

 

But good news is: Amanero firmware 2004be is the one that supports linux DSD512. So, once this manual FW upgrade was done, one can have total freedom to try any latest Amanero firmware on DAC8 DSD. I have not tried the 2004be on DAC8 DSD yet, but this might be the potential way to experience DSD512 on linux.

 

Also, be aware that Amanero windows driver does not work with 2004be at the moment (that is also why T+A cannot issue a 2004be firmware update).

 

Regarding the detail of the FW upgrade without opening the enclosure:

 

Two steps in general:

 

1. Update the DAC8 DSD firmware to V2.6 onwards

2. initiate service of DAC8 DSD and use oemtool117 to flash the firmware

 

Step two is very safe and easy, I have nothing to comment.

 

The step one can be safely done with the help of T+A MP8, and this is also the way T+A recommends. If you don't have access to MP8, then you need to use RS232 connection as S0133 service note described for the upgrade. This is the method I used and is not very recommended by T+A. It is highly risky to turn your DAC8 DSD into a brick because it has no recovery mechanism.

There are some tricks during the upgrade and it was a bit nervy indeed since I failed three times during the RS232 upgrade. 

 

Another good news is: Lothar has been writing a programme for PC to do a safe upgrade with secure recovery for DAC8 DSD. But it might take some time since he uses his own spare time doing it. For those who dare not upgrade it manually at risk or don't have a MP8, this might be the best solution for all. So again, patience is a good virtue.

 

I might open a thread about my experience of this risky upgrade if I have enough spare time or there is an increasing need for the FW upgrade. But I doubt T+A will support this since it raises chance to send broken unit to the factory and causes more trouble.

[PieterP]

There are reports that 2004be is still with artefacts with dsd 512 on linux

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/254935-signalyst-dsc1-90.html

[guiltyboxswapper]

Thanks @louisxiawei

 

Out of interest, how does one "initiate service" once the firmware has been upgraded with an MP8?  Is it simply a menu option? 

[mav52]

On 6/12/2018 at 9:29 AM, CatManDo said:

According to the MP8 manual, the MP8 - which can use it's internet connection for online firmware updates - can also update the DAC8 DSD firmware, when both devices are linked with the T+A system bus connection. But the DAC8 DSD must already have firmware 2.60 at least.

 

Page 58 of the manual:

 

"For updating the firmware of the MP 8 there is a convenient method which requires an existing Internet connection.

 

If you are operating the MP 8 in conjunction with a DAC 8 DSD, the machine [= the DAC] can also be updated via the SYS connection.

 

The wiring diagram for the machines is shown in 'Appendix A'.

 

The following section describes the exact method of updating the firmware in detail. For a correct function together with the MP 8, the DAC 8 DSD must have at least software version V2.60 installed. If no software version is displayed in the update menu, an update should be carried out in any case."

 

Updating via the Internet:

 

(...)

 

"If the MP 8 is connected to a DAC 8 DSD via the SYS connection, the Select Device menu appears at this point. In this case select the device to be updated and confirm your choice  by pressing the OK button"

 

https://www.ta-hifi.de/wp-content/uploads/UM_MP8_102_UK.pdf

 

The german text is actually clearer.

 

If I read this right the only way to update this dac is to buy another T&A product the MP8 which is $3400 US. Brilliant.

[CatManDo]

It's not the only way. It's the most convenient way. There is also the RS232 connection method.

 

I think the MP8 is a very underwhelming product. It has the type of features of a $500 streamer (more "lifestyle"-centered than audiophile), and no DSD support so far. Like the AMP8, it's not in the same league as the DAC8 DSD, plus it's overpriced.