T+a dac 8 dsd

[Priaptor]

So it sounds like you guys listened to all the other "attributes" of what the DAC had to offer and EVERYTHING just sounded better up sampled to 512 DSD using HQP regardless.

 

There are filter buttons on the front of the DAC. Any of these engaged during your session? How was the DAC configured with their internal filters using HQP? Could you override them?

 

Thanks

Howie

[Priaptor]

The review does not describe the sources/associated equipment.

 

I currently live in the camp of non-believers where DSD is concerned but I have to admit I did not yet hear a pure DSD DAC in combination with HQ player up-sampling to DSD256 or DSD512.

 

Am I wrong or is the T+A DAC 8 DSD one of the first DAC's that does DSD512 in true 1 bit conversion? If so, can it not be the case that most credits have to go to HQ player and it's filtering?

 

It seems from those who have used the DAC this is only way to use it. Maybe they should consider a "stripped down" version 512 DSD only with a free subscription to HQP.

[Priaptor]

If Michael didn't like the music, it must be quite good for everyone else . I don't buy any recommend albums since the ones I listened to were like a falling drum kit down the stairs, and others so devoid of rhythm, was it music? Everyone has different tastes for sure, but albums to avoid, Michael's choices are great for that.

 

Dead on. I actually find his site one of the most useless both in terms of reviews and music recommendations. I can't speak to the system these guys are denigrating, but I have been demoing the T&A for the last week and it is a fantastic deal, IMHO. I can't even use it at it's optimum Jussi settings as yet do to my computer limitations and even at -2 or JRiver upsampling to 512DSD it is fluid, incredibly detailed with a fantastic soundstage.

[Priaptor]

You are in for a real treat once you can use the full potential of HQP with it at DSD512.

 

Will you have the opportunity to demo the DAC 8 DSD optimally?

 

I am hoping to get a different computer in here to get Jussi's full magic through her before she goes back. Even "limited" to how I have now it is a wonderful sounding DAC.

[Priaptor]

That is some really interesting stuff. Subscribed!

 

I have this DAC for evaluation and can vouch at 512 it is pretty amazing.

 

By itself the DAC is an incredible performer particularly when price is taken into account.

 

When upsampled to 512 it is an incredible experience and unfortunately my computing power isn'r allowing to max out Jussi's best.

 

I am very impressed.

[Priaptor]

Compulab Airtop - Airtop models

 

You can scroll down and click to the various models. Think one of these would be suitable for upsampling to DSD 512?

 

I have been waiting for this company to start shipping. Never got an email from them. I am glad you reminded me.

 

Jussi's "should be" I guess needs to be taken with caution. Right now I have a pretty powerful computer, albeit with an old processor, i7 3960x with a GTX 680 with 16 gigs of RAM and it is not cutting it at optimum setting for 512 DSD with HQP. At least on the surface my computer looks more powerful than the Airflow but who knows.

[Priaptor]

Pipeline SDM enabled and with -2s filter it doesn't work to DSD512?

 

Yeah with -2s it works. I want it all though!!

[Priaptor]

As stated over on the HQP build thread, my i7-6700k (passmark 10, 971) and GeForce GTX 960 (passmark 5,938) easily does DSD512 (29% cpu) at poly-sinc-mp-short. My CUDA-Z says 91 Gflops/s which is significantly less than Jussi's card (154) but seemingly providing great offloading.

 

I am going to follow your lead on this. I have to send back the T&A but am sufficiently convinced the upsampling is amazing with this DAC and am going to go in the direction you recommend (possibly with a few modifications as Jabbr is suggesting) to get full capabilities.

[Priaptor]

I have a similar system (i7-4930k/GTX 760) and it does DSD512 easily with the -2s filters. (CPU 25%) Even though CPU is 31%, it hiccups with the poly-sinc-mp filters. Could be something else but I tend to think that the 3.4 ghz CPU may be too slow. In my next build which will have the GTX 1080 I am wavering between a 3.6ghz xeon and the i7-6700k (4.0 Ghz).

 

I am in your camp. I am getting hiccups as well. I love this new T&A DAC so much I want to get it's full capabilities and like you, looking at the options. I hear you about the GTX1080!! Sounds pretty incredible at less power utilization than the big guys now available from NVIDIA at "only" 599, but may be the card to go with. I definitely see a similar build in my future as well as a T&A.

[Priaptor]

Have you compared the DAC to any others, especially more expensive ones? The buzz here is that with the upsampling it is a true giant killer.

 

I have an MSB Diamond Plus. I am waiting for my amp that blew up to come back and do an A:B on my main system. If there is too much delay in getting my amp back my plan is to compare the T&A to the MSB prior to having to return the T&A.

[Priaptor]

To make it a fair comparison to the MSB Diamond Plus, you need to have the T+A DAC 8 DSD be fed by a SGM 2105 :-)

 

AND have the MSB fed by the same!!

[Priaptor]

Find something with a i7 6700K. You could buy or build something. Why not see if that company would build one for you.

 

My plan is to build one, with the help of a fellow CA member.

 

I just purchased and waiting for delivery of the cheapest Northwest Falcon Tiki. Based on others recommendation I went with the i7 6700K rather than the "super chips" with 6 to 10 cores the latter actually running at lower speeds despite more cores. Ed believes the i7 is best for HQP (I surely hope so but I do trust his recommendation).

 

If you get their cheapest configuration it is actually quite reasonably priced compared to the hassle and effort of building your own. Plus it's a tiny footprint and supposedly runs very quietly both very important to me. I will be running it to a Carbon NAA.

 

I did splurge for the new Nvidia 1080 and while not a game player wouldn't mind dabbling at VR and since its 500 bucks cheaper than than the noisy and expensive Titan series I decided to go for it.

[Priaptor]

Is that around $2000 with the 960 video card?

 

Yes.

 

It's 2130 to be exact. It measures 4" wide, by 13" high by 13" deep.

[Priaptor]

Look forward to the review!

And you're feeding the DAC8 with 512?

 

Correct.

[Priaptor]

Hi Howie,

 

Falcon Tiki looks like a cool buy :-)

 

What kind of power supply are you powering the Carbon NAA with ?

 

Best

 

Ed

 

Hi Ed,

 

I already have my Carbon set up with JCAT card and my LPS is a dual rail Kaia from Core Audio Tech.

 

So my plan is to have an "all around" computer that I can run 512DSD on and the Carbon, my Audio PC running NAA.

 

Howie

[Priaptor]

FYI, if I did my pricing right, that thread about building your own, Tedb and ?Miska put together an i7 based computer with top end components for about $1000. I don't know a lot on the topic, but I have put two PCs from scratch before and it's basically insert components and load software. Both worked perfectly. So, story told, I know it's not that hard and shouldn't be too threatening. Max savings if needed.

 

True. I have built many computers and it is not hard. I just don't have the patience or time to save the 500 bucks or the desire to troubleshoot issues WHEN they go wrong. I rather just have it built. Plus the reason I am going with the Tiki is the case is tiny, which I need on my desktop and if you see the inside of the machine it is not an easy machine to work on. I have embarked and spent inordinate hours years ago building a tiny water cooled system and it was not one of my more enjoyable projects.

[Priaptor]

I find this thread interesting to read,but I have some real doubts regarding the conclusions you make regarding DSD 512 via this DAc or any other. To begin with are there even any native DSD 512 recordings at all on the market?

And judging by the reactions by some notable reviewer´s , who base their opinions of SQ on the one and only REAL REFERENCE there is IMO,acoustic music preferably large scale classical,at the much hyped demo you had basically without any such source material , I take most of what is said here with a pinch of salt to say the least.

Why on earth did you not base your much hyped demos on music where SQ actually matters, large scale classical and acoustic music?

If some people's favourite electronica albums sound "better" ie more pleasing to them via DSD 512 upsampling from pcm or lower rate DSD , that says little or nothing about ,any actual increase in SQ in my book. Moreover Rob Watts the Chord DAVE designer has just said that 16/44.1 pcm sounds better than DSD 512 via his DAVE. He reports installing DSD capable drivers a waste of time!

Not yet having heard either the T+A nor DSD 512 , I can still safely say that via PCM DAVE is the best DAC I have heard.

The only probem I encountered with DAVE via headphones HE 1000 planars and my own HD 800 was that hi res pcm sounded clearly better than any of my many DSD albums!

Though also very good, DSD sounded "muddier" softer than real life sound and colored and less resolved via DAVE than hi res pcm.

PCM came clearly closer to how instruments sound live to my ears via DAVE.

On a personal level and via my system I am becoming more and more aware of the problems and limitations of DSD 64. Limited resolution and noise is becoming more irritating since I added very transparent electrostatic speakers to my system.

My current take on DSD 64 is that it can sound very good yes, but clearly not as good as hi res pcm.

The more I compare say 24/96 and DSD 64 the more obvious I find that DSD often sounds both too soft and a bit thick!

Ie too much masking hf noise and lacking in detail and really low level resolution.

Do DSD 256 or 512 really solve those problems?

And solve them with music where it really matters , muisc that actually contains all the little acoustic cues and the dynamic range approaching live acoustic msuic in a real hall?

Electric guitars and synths are IMO utterly unsuitable to judge SQ IMO.

 

Look, I am glad you love your DAVE and I am sure it is a remarkable DAC but you need not denigrate the T&A or the methods others are using to maximize the T&A to justify your DAVE. I am a big CHORD fan, have defended my HUGO/Mojo against some heavy criticisms, have an MSB Diamond Plus in my main system and can say that the T&A is a remarkable product, particularly given it's price point. I was seriously looking at getting a DAVE for my headphones and possible replacing my MSB if it were "that good" and along came the T&A on this site and I was lucky enough to get one for a demo. It didn't take long for me to differentiate the "hype" from reality as reality was remarkable SQ.

[Priaptor]

chrille,

 

You miss the point and are posting based on misinformation about what they demoed and what people are experiencing and the benefit of upsampling to DSD 512. Enjoy your DAVE. I am sure it is fabulous.

[Priaptor]

Very true Priaptor!

 

 

 

What were your thoughts on the T&A vs. your MSB setup? I heard the latter at Axpona and was incredibly impressed with that MSB stack.

 

I haven't yet made comparison. When I get back from my summer place I will have all setup to do just that. I want to be able to compare the best setup of the T&A to the best setup of the MSB through my main system. The MSB is at its best just playing direct with JRiver or HQP without any upsampling and the T&A upsampled.

 

I love the MSB so it will be a great comparison when I do it.

[Priaptor]

Guys! Let's try not to drag this down with condescending words and attitudes.

 

Chris,

PLEASE start another thread, where you want to discuss T+A vs DAVE (or anything vs DAVE). It will be for those that have heard both.

 

If you haven't heard the T+A (like me) then asking how it might sound vs what the T+A listeners have already heard is a valuable question; but coming on here and stating that your own DAC is likely superior, having NOT heard the T+A, seems like an unfair thing to do, with everything ending badly. We don't want this thread to end that way, sorry.

 

I love Rob Watts, having spent considerable time with him face to face in (sometimes non-disclosure) discussions. I consider him an audio friend. I love what he does with FPGAs, especially as they relate to noise floor modulation. But realize his designs are not especially focused on DSD (his PCM results are stunning, and I've reported that now for years). The T+A, OTOH, specifically in its analog filtering chipless DSD mode, is entirely focused on DSD, and hence the DSD upsampling discussions here. Apples and oranges.

 

YUP, I never understood the mine is better than yours thing or infiltrating a thread to claim such nonsense. I couldn't agree more. The T&A stands on its own merits and no need to do a Dave v. T&A claim on a thread about the benefits of upsampling to DSD 512 using Jussi's fantastic HQP approach.

[Priaptor]

Hahahahaha

 

Pri,

 

Welcome to DSD paradise. Told you the water was nice and warm and it was fine to jump in. I hope you now understand what AL and I were saying when we said the Big7 crushed the Hugo, especially on DSD.

 

Rob makes fine PCM Dacs but as a DSD hater, I would not buy his DAC and expect quality DSD playback. T+A is real DSD,so that alone makes me a fan...though to my mind, the GG takes thing to the extreme.

 

Cant wait t get my GG upgraded to 512 and then run HQP up sampling on it...though not sure if the Xeon sever can handle it, even without Roon. With the right DHT tubes and recti combo, the sky will be the limit. Already native DSD128 is mind blowing.

 

I don't think I ever put down DSD in general or the Lampi in particular. My issues were the dogmatic defense of the Lampi over Chord just like now I similarly have issues with those dogmatically making similar claims regarding Chord, specifically Dave, in this case when compared to the T&A.

 

While I sold my Hugo, I purchased a Mojo and love it more than my Hugo. Also while I love the T&A with DSD 512 via HQP until I get a chance to listen to my MSB v T&A v Mojo set up optimally on my main system for each I reserve judgment in comparing any of these superb DACS to each other. I wouldn't be surprised if I have an "overall" favorite and wind up having preferences of one over the other two for specific situations. There are many superb speakers, DACS, amps, etc out there and similarly headphones, head amps and many ways for us to spend our money and enjoy ourselves without pigeonholing ourselves to dogma and absolutes.

[Priaptor]

Has anyone done any extended listing to this DAC with headphones in DSD512 mode?

Would like some suggestions from owners!

 

I am using both the LCD-X (original version) and HD800s and both are fantastic. I was about to sell my LCD-X until hearing them with this DAC and my Cavelli Liquid Carbon. Both are very good.

[Priaptor]

You did not, nor did I say so. Just welcoming you to the PURE DSD playback club and yanking your chain a bit...all in good fun. I still own a Chord Dac and spent a day comparing Hugo to 3 others. Hugo did not impress in that crowd. Have heard the Dave at a show and the Dave delivers on PCM and is in a different league to the Hugo.It impressed me more than the MSB Select!!!!

 

Still, with a sledgehammer Server like the SGM feeding DSD512 to ANY "chipless" DSD Dac, that is a recipe for heaven.

 

OH, and I agree that there is a lot of good stuff out there now, so as long as people enjoy what they have, I have no real complaints. I sure do enjoy what I have...

 

And there lies the rub.

 

Trust me I hope I enjoy everything upsampled to DSD 512 on the T&A more than my MSB. Nothing would make me happier.

 

Interesting about the Dave v. The Select. For a 100k I would have thought all the magazines and so called reviewers of the same would have flipped over the Select but I read no such zeal in their descriptions. Interesting. Maybe the value and performance is in these newer and cheaper DACS.

[Priaptor]

So what are you waiting for? (Comparing the Chord Mojo to the MSB and T+A)

 

To get back from my summer home and to get back my amp which is being repaired for the last 7 weeks.

 

Right now I have only heard the T&A on my headphones

[Priaptor]

Can't wait!!!

When will your amp get back home?

 

Supposedly this Thursday, however, I am not going to be home for awhile. I was hoping to have it prior to my leaving for my summer home. Trust me, I am looking forward to the shootout as well. Based on my listening with headphones to the T&A, I have high hopes for it in comparing.