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T+a dac 8 dsd


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@Gavin1977: I am looking very much forward to hear about your impressions when comparing the tambaqui with your DAC8. Did you ever compare your DAC8 with DSD512 with the Chord DAVE? Another interesting alternative might be the Holo Audio May, of course. There are some reporting DAC8 with DSD512 being better than DAVE which is quite a statement I believe.

 

Too bad that HQPlayer Pro with its offline upsampling cababilies is so much more expensive than the other variants HQPlayer. It would help enormously to have it in a more affordable package. Large disks would be necessary instead of powerful servers. Still probably a less noisy solution.

 

Unfortunately, I had only briefly experienced the power of HQP since my OpticalRendu in NAA mode was only recognized once. Still it was a magical experience to hear my little Chord Mojo fed with DSD256 files from HQP ... but even without HQP and just on OpticalModule/OpticalRendu powered by power banks, the Mojo sounds amazingly good. Without HQP working, I am using JRMC27 and ROON both with very good results already. Extrapolating from there, I believe that Chord DAVE must be sonic nirvana ;-) ... and if T+A DAC8 with DSD512 will be even better than that. Wow.

Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers

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Thanks a lot for the shared experiences. Yes, also in my experience, cables and vibration control are very important as is clean power and clean digital feed ... and it is in such an environment where the Mojo impresses me after it was sitting for years on the side with only very occasional mobile use. Looking forward to hear from the DAC8-Tambaqui shootout ... and although I am using an Ayre KX5 pre with very good results, I still have a sweet spot for DAC-power amp direct settings. Should probably get the DAC8 here for some testing as well ... with a powerful CPU.

Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers

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That is what I had read about Chord DACs as well. Indeed, both upsampling to max PCM and to DSD256 sounds great, even if the latter is done in JRMC27 ... and there are clear differences between both that I am still exploring right now. Somehow I have the feeling that timing is better when feeding DSD whereas extension up high is better when feeding PCM. Also ROON vs JRMC27 is quite interesting with ROON being somewhat warmer with more depth and JRMC27 somewhat more accurate and maybe a tad more natural. Still all early impressions. Goting OT here sorry.

Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers

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Fatalethal. Thanks a lot for reporting so clearly on the differences ... Any chance for a 2nd round with souce DSD512 Files from HQP or so? That seems to be the setting where D88 performs best.

Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have read that DSD512 to the T+A should now be possible with Linux as well. Now does that mean that e.g. an OpticalRendu can feed DSD512 to the T+A? Anyone here using a Rendu successfully to feed DSD512 successfully to the T+A?

Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers

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Many thanks. This is very good to know. Thus it will make sense for me to demo the unit in my system. These background task timers are on your music servers right? Are those Macs or Win or Linux?

Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers

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  • 2 months later...
2 hours ago, mevdinc said:

But I'm surprised the internal volume control isn't as good. Does DAC 8DSD also use a digital volume control?

 

Actually, I did not spend too much time on the internal volume control. Thus, there may again be the aspect of burn in the analog volume control of the DAC8DSD. When first eliminating my preamp, I had been using the internal volume control first. While I was immediately impressed at how well this setting was working, I still got the slight impression that something wasn't quite right after several hours of listening. Then when setting the switch on the DAC8DSD to its fixed volume setting (Line) and using software volume controll, everthing fell into place.

 

My next step was to check my Metric Halo LIO-8 (again with its internal analog volume control and with software volume control) directly on my Mark Levinson 434 monos (i.e. no active speaker setup in my main listening room). Since my last check of this setting was prior to using the OpticalModule/OpticalRendu, I was wondering whether this made my preamp superfluous somehow. However, when bringing in the Ayre KX-5 pre, there was a clear improvement with the LIO-8, i.e., bass got more weight/substance, voice did sound more relaxed and human etc. ... Thus, I realized that with the LIO-8, my preamp remained to be a crucial component in my system. Still even with this LIO-8 optimized setting, I found the LIO-8 to sound somewhat artificial. That was a new experience for me. Prior to my DAC8DSD encounter, I had found the LIO-8 to be a very natural sounding DAC (e.g. when comparing it to the RME ADI-2 DAC or the Ayre QX-5/20).

 

When switching back to the DAC8DSD with the KX-5 preamp included, there was already this amazing realism. Still I found again something not as pure as I had experienced before. After eliminating the KX-5 again, the purity returned along with the realism. This was the point when it was fully clear to me that I would keep the DAC8DSD. Interestingly, at that point, I had only used DSD128 files via my OpticalModule/OpticalRendu or DSD512 files via an ordinary Win10 PC connected directly via USB to the DAC8DSD. Only after it was clear to me that I would keep the DAC8DSD, did I flash the Amanero USB driver which paved the way to play DSD512 via the OpticalModule/OpticalRendu setup.

 

Once you have flashed the Amanero USB driver, the DAC8DSD has to go back to the T+A factory to be set back to its stock USB driver optimized for Win10 usage. Thus, I had to rely on extrapolating between my Win10 PC experiences with DSD512 and the DSD128 experiences with the OpticalModule/OpticalRendu, to decide on my purchase ... and yes, DSD512 now via OpticalModule/OpticalRendu offers my SQ benchmark so far.

 

So far, I am still using the trial version of HQP desktop which allows for 30 minutes of playback before shutting down automatically. There my PC allows to use the poly-sinc-ext2 filter along with the ASDM7 modulator at DSD512. However, for my early DSD128 tests, I was able to use the sinc-M filter along with the ASDM7EC modulator. The HQP software is really wonderful with its great digital volume control. Although it is a no brainer puchase, I still have to decide whether to buy HQP desktop or whether to first get a better Linux server to run HQP embedded. Really great that HQP offers such a convenient trial version that allows us to fully experience its power beforehand.

Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers

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14 hours ago, mevdinc said:

My next DAC has to have a very good volume control for starters

 

That is exactly what I had thought and was fully convinced of ... even more surprised I was and still am at how well the HQP volume control is working when upsampling red book PCM to DSD512. I strongly recommend to give the DAC8DSD a try in this setting. Of course, when using software control, one has to be very careful, e.g., such that other computer generated sounds will not be played back at full volume and thereby fry your tweeters (and/or your ears).

 

The (analog) volume control of my Ayre KX-5 is of very high quality along with its other features such as output stage. I believe that anything of similar quality will be very hard to find in a DAC below say 5K. Not sure about the Bricasti M3 but the Mola Mola Makua preamp with inbuilt (basically Tambaqui) DAC upgrade will certainly be up to it ... now - in light of this - using the DAC8DSD direct to power amp with HQP volume control feels a bit like cheating. Looking at the posts of @Gavin1977 here comparing the DAC8DSD to the Mola Mola Tambaqui for example, I get the feeling that I get a performance very close to the Mola Mola at a fraction of the price ... or basically for free when considering that now I could basically sell my preamp along with the extra footers/power cord/XLR cable pair.

 

Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers

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Experiencing the wonderful DAC8DSD right now, I am wondering whether it can get substantially better than this? Hard to imagine ... but I had been at this point several times before of course. Indeed, it would be very interesting to hear about listening experiences from comparing the DAC8DSD with the SCV3100HV, although the latter would be far outside of my budget.

 

The main aspect that I am missing with the DAC8DSD it that it is not an 8-channel DAC (or 6-channel at least). In my books, a multi-channel version of the DSD DAC inside of the DAC8DSD allowing for 8-channel DSD512 playback would be the ultimate endgame DAC. Ideally, with fully symmetrical design, normal XLR outputs (i.e. no adapters required), and with onboard HQPlayer NAA endpoint ... needed since multi-channel DSD512 bandwidth size will require one to go beyond USB class compliant input ... It would be terrific to have the SQ of the DSD DAC of the DAC8DSD with additional capabilities to play multichannel DSD files, to integrate subs optimally, to do digital room correction with active crossovers, to set up multiple-sub arrays, etc.

Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers

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10 minutes ago, mevdinc said:

exaSound S88 deos 8 channels and up to DSD 256 I think with XLR connections too.

 

The S88 does look very, very interesting. Indeed I find that it is one of the most interesting DAC offerings available today including even HQPlayer NAA capabilities and working even up to DSD512 in its stereo setting. Would be very interesting to hear about first listening impressions ... ideally including a comparison of the S88 to the DAC8DSD with DSD512 files. The S88 seems to be based on the ESS 9038Pro, whereas the realism offered by the DAC8DSD seems to result from its propriatery 1-bit converter. If the S88 is able to match or even exceed the latter, that will be a striking archievement.

Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers

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Appearantly, the Ayre QX-5/20 uses an ESS 9038 as well. When I had it in my system for testing, it had some aspects where it bettered my Metric Halo LIO-8. However, the differences were not so substantial so that I was happy to keep my LIO-8 for listening without any regrets. INote however that I did neither listen to DSD nor did I use the OpticalModule/Rendu at that time.) Now with the PCM DAC inside of the DAC8DSD only, my experience would have been similar I believe.

 

With the DSD DAC inside of the DAC8DSD, one realizes immediately that something special is going on even at DSD64 or DSD128. Somehow it is as if a window/curtain between the performers and you is taken away. Somehow it is not really a gradual improvement over an existing decent DAC but a completely different level in particular at DSD512 and once burned-in. After experiencing that, it was impossible for me to return the DAC8DSD and to go back to the LIO-8. There is such a purity to the voices and other sounds that literally brought me to goosebumps and tears on certain tracks ... Hard to describe/communicate in words but if you experience it you will understand immediately. Now I do understand and can easily believe statements saying that the DAC8DSD is right up there with the Mola Mola Tambaqui or Chord DAVE. Personally, I would be very interested to compare the DAC8DSD to the Holo Audio May KTE sometime in the future. For now, however, I am still super happy and amazed each time I return from listening to the DAC8DSD.

 

Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers

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Congratulation! Actually in my system and with DSD512 I would not call the DAC8DSD bass shy at all. When using it on a normal Win 10 PC (i.e. before using it on the OpticalModule/OpticalRendu), I had the feeling that there was plenty of bass (maybe even a bit too much) but that it could have been a bit faster. Then at some point when switching to the OpticalModule/OpticalRendu and with DSD128, I indeed remember that I had the feeling of the bass being somewhat slim. Nevertheless, with DSD512 via the OpticalModule/OpticalRendu everything was fine. There is punch and weight down low. My PC allows for poly-sinc-ext2/ASDM7 at DSD512 which I found superior to ASDM7EC at DSD128. Note that my current USB cable is the Sablon USB 2020 which arrived basically together with the DAC8DSD. Thus, I cannot say for certainty whether some suboptimal aspects noticed during the the burn-in phase were due to the new USB cable or due to the new DAC.

Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers

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  • 3 months later...

Have just reached a new SQ benchmark with the T+A in my listening room yesterday night. Several improvements on my system recently:

 

- Went from power bank power supply to a dual-rail Paul Hynes SR7 on the opticalRendu and a MikroTik 10GBit switch. This made a huge effect. So important to provide the opticalRendu with a premium power supply. Really no subtle differences ... it put my system into a new league.

 

- Next I got an Innuous Phoenix for testing. Since it was a brand new unit, it is still burning in. Nevertheless, it brings improvements that made it impossible for me to return: much more prominent and better contured bass, more relaxed, more ease, more 3D, more contour to the singers/instruments. Still not sure yet whether it takes a way some of the openeness/flow of the direct oR-DAC8DSD usage. However, these aspects may improve as burn in of the Phoenix continues. Also the 2nd USB cable is now my old Audioquest Diamond as opposed to the great Sablon 2020 USB cable. Probably, I will have to get another Sablon 2020 USB to get back all of the openess. Not sure whether a was a good price/performance ratio ... for the same amount of DAC8DSD and Phoenix I would have gotten an Holo Audio May for example. Still once experienced, it is not possible now to kick the Phoenix out of my system despite its relatively high price. Here the differences are more subtle than the ones experienced when powering the oR with the SR7.

 

- Two days ago my 2nd MikroTik 10GBit switch (previous powered by a power bank) got an ifi iElite 24V power supply. At the same time the T+A DAC8DSD got a new seat on a Townshend Sesmic Isolation platform. The latter two elements (maybe along with the continued burn in of the Phoenix) finally paved the way for such a convincing new SQ benchmark ... and already before all of this I had thought of sonic nirvana reached.

 

After all I find it completely amazing how the T+A reacts to all those improvements. Still a very happy camper with it.

 

Next I will try an ifi iElite 5V power supply on the opticalModue (still powered by a power bank right now). Also another Townshend seismic isolation platform will be included ... maybe below a power distributor. Let's see ... but right now SQ is such that I would be perfectly happy to stop right here with all those improvements/optimization ... however once infected by audiophilia it will never stop I guess. :-)

Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers

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Interesting ... well, there are of course ways to compensate: Change audio channels L/R by switching XLR cables or speaker cables for example.

Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers

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Still maybe relevant/important when using digital room correction filters generated by Acourate or AudioLense for example. Good to be aware of this. Many thanks!

Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers

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Great to know about this new PGGB software. However, more suitable for DAC particularly strong with PCM. No DSD output from PGGB which would be the optimum for the DAC8DSD. Maybe usage of PGGB would be to produce better PCM via PGGB and then feeding this into HQPlayer for translation to DSD512 where the T+A shines.

Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers

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  • 3 months later...
On 9/18/2021 at 1:21 PM, OE333 said:

If there is an interest in this I could post a how-to to build a very high quality NAA on the basis of a SBC.

Such a post would be very welcome I believe.

Apple Powerbook G4 15\", iTunes, Metric Halo LIO-8, active speakers

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