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T+a dac 8 dsd


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1 hour ago, twluke said:

 

I think this 2005be is quite superior to 2004be and worthy of trying but am afraid to say that it should be still treated as a beta version

 

 

Absolutely correct. it definately is a beta version. It has to undergo thorough testing with positive results before an official release will be made available. My first impression is positive.

I have listened for about 2 hours now without having issues but long term testing will be done next week.

 

An other reason why this version will not be released as it is is that is not Windows compatible - so still a bit work remains to be done.

 

 

T+A Fellow   (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021)

(*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum

 

T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328)

 

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3 hours ago, wolft said:

Hello, after two years development still no native DSD Linux support and still no DSD512. Still no update tool for firmware and drivers. The T+A DAC 8 DSD doesn't run in Audirvana f. Windows in Asio mode. No own Asio Support for MacOS. No contemporary Bugfixing for Windows 10. 

All this for an DAC which costs in Europe 3200 €.

Wolft

 

 

 

1.) Linux compatibility was never claimed- especially not for native/DSD512. Who needs a DAC for Linux DSD512 should maybe consider an other product or simply wait until Linux compatibility is officially declared.

Currently T+A is working to make this DAC Linux compatible. Linux kernel patches have already been applied.

 

2.) Audirvana f. Windows is currently the only player that does not work with DAC8DSD in Asio mode. All other players just work fine (J-River, foobar etc.). Problem might well be on the Audirvana side - this is currently under examination.

 

 

T+A Fellow   (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021)

(*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum

 

T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328)

 

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I guess that in most cases the demand for Linux compatibility is that a Linux based NAA or Network/USB converter or a roonbridge shall be used. These tasks could also well be done with a Windows based computer and the official standard T+A Windows ASIO driver which supports everything up to PCM384/32 and native DSD up to DSD512 .

Of course I understand that not everybody wants to install a full blown Windows PC side by side with his DAC. In the past I personally have used an Intel NUC running roonbridge (HQ player NAA would also be possible) - but even a NUC might be too much and of course it is not fanless...

 

Recently I tried a LattePanda SBC (https://www.lattepanda.com/) for around $100 (without MS Windows 10 activation). This solution (after a bit tweaking) worked well with the T+A DAC8DSD and might be an alternative to a Linux based SBC.

 

Of course T+A will continue the efforts to achieve full Linux compatibility - including DSD512 native but for the time being and for those who have no objections using a Windows based PC this could be a quite good solution not needing any fiddling with Linux beta versions.

 

If anybody is interested in this solution, please let me know - I could give some hints then.

 

 

-> attached: 2 pictures of my LattePanda streaming DSD512 from my roonserver to DAC8DSD.

 

Please note: This DAC8DSD has standard firmware installed (not one of the beta versions) - so this can be done with every DAC8DSD from Ser.No 1 onwards --- without any changes or FW updates !

 

LP_DSD512.jpg

ILP_roon.PNG

T+A Fellow   (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021)

(*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum

 

T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328)

 

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What you see on the pictures is my test installation. Roonserver is running on a core i5 based PC with Ubuntu 1804. The DSD conversion is done by roonserver with its integrated DSP sample rate conversion. Music is then streamed to the LattePanda SBC over ethernet and then it goes via USB into the DAC8DSD.

HQ player is currently not installed but I definately will do some testing with HQ player in the near future.

 

At home I use a very similar setup. I would like to upgrade my system with HQ player replacing the roon DSD conversion but first I think I need a more powerful Server PC probably with a CUDA graphics card as co-processor....

 

T+A Fellow   (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021)

(*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum

 

T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328)

 

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... my offer to give some hints referred to the LattePanda setup and installation.

T+A Fellow   (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021)

(*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum

 

T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328)

 

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18 minutes ago, guiltyboxswapper said:

@OE333 are there much known differences between the DAC 8 DSD and the PDP3000HV/3100HV series 1-bit implementation?

 

LittlePanda solution is an excellent idea.  Any idea of its USB noise characteristics? 

 

DAC8DSD and PDP3000HV share the same basic construction. Even the circuit topology is identical. Differences are:

the analog side (i/v converters, reconstruction filters) of the PDP3000HV work on higher supply voltages (HV=HighVoltage concept of T+A).

The DAC8DSD has an integrated volume control which the PDP hasn't because it is intended to work with a P3000HV PreAmp.

 

Regarding LattePanda:

Up to now I have done mainly functional testing with the LattePanda - perhaps I can do some measurements and listening tests next week if this if of any interest.

 

What I already found: The LattePanda offers a way to disable USB spread spectrum clocking - maybe a good little feature to minimize jitter...

I will check and see if it brings any advantage.

 

L.

T+A Fellow   (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021)

(*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum

 

T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328)

 

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18 hours ago, Quadman said:

Please, are you running win 10 home on this and what tweaks have you done to make this work.  Also what PSU do you use to power it, I would think a good LT3045 based 3A psu would be perfect for this.

 

... deleted - hit the save button before ready - sorry

T+A Fellow   (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021)

(*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum

 

T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328)

 

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18 hours ago, Quadman said:

Please, are you running win 10 home on this and what tweaks have you done to make this work.  Also what PSU do you use to power it, I would think a good LT3045 based 3A psu would be perfect for this.

Yes, this little board runs Win10. Equipped with 32G eMMC and 4G RAM. Processor is a z8350 Atom Quadcore @ max. 4x1920 MHz.

I have not experimented with pwr supplies yet, have done functional testing only. For these tests I used a standard USB SMPS (2.5A).

 

T+A Fellow   (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021)

(*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum

 

T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328)

 

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13 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Well, native DSD support was added to Linux kernel on April 2013... ;) First supported DACs were Playback Designs ones.

 

 

Miska,

It was not my intention to claim that T+A buit the first DSD capable DACs.

Regarding native DSD support on Linux: To my best knowledge DSD support started at around kernel version  3.17 / 3.18 and ALSA 1.0.28. This must have been at around end of 2014 and it was experimental work at that time. I don't know when native DSD made it into the mainline kernel, but at the time when we made our design decisions (early 2014), Linux support was as far as I remember not a feature found on DACs available at that time.

But maybe all this leads a bit off topic....

 

T+A Fellow   (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021)

(*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum

 

T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328)

 

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1 hour ago, juanitox said:

very nice setup but you will not reach the entire value of your T+A dac like that , Roon is good for GUI but so so for PCM to DSD512.

1 ;  run an external PC for roon core  and HQplayer processing PCM to DSD512 

2  install HQplayer on the LP  and run it as NAA   ( connected to the main PC network)

3 you can use Roon remote from the LP or iphone ipad..

4 use a LPS on the LP

 

result you will have a much better sound and your LP will run cooler

 

 

 

... completely agreed.

 

The setup I described is the one I use for testing the stability of the streaming. It is very easy to set up and it helps me to find out if everything works (technically).

It was not meant in any way as a recommendation for a real listening system.

 

It should only point out a possible way to get high sample rate streaming using a windows based SBC as ethernet/USB bridge. 

 

I think it should work well with HQ player, too.

 

T+A Fellow   (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021)

(*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum

 

T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328)

 

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11 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

 

I've used LogicSupply's CL100 (you'll want to replace the standard wall-wart PSU though) as a Windows based NAA for the DAC8 DSD. However, IMO, Windows is quite hefty piece of software to run just an audio endpoint...

 

 

I argree, Windows is indeed a hefty piece of software for this task - but the LattePanda offers a quite neat (and affordable) way to do the streaming with all DACs that rely on Windows/ASIO for streaming.

 

I am not saying that this is the best way to do it - I was only trying to give a hint to those who want to try it with a Windows based bridge.

 

... and according to my experience it works quite well.

 

T+A Fellow   (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021)

(*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum

 

T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328)

 

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15 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Yeah, it works quite well, but not something I personally like to use. Windows 10 does a lot of interfering crap on it's own, like automatic updates in background, including automatic reboots, etc. My biggest hate is "ModulesInstallerWorker" that it launches in background and eats lot of CPU and I/O bandwidth.

 

Now I rather keep my DAC8 DSD connected straight to DAC UP port of my i7-6950X server... Works just as well. And with 10 cores, Windows interferes a little bit less... :D

 

 

I agree - direct USB connection to the server will probably always be the best solution.

But you see,  I am married now since 27 years and this might rapidly change if I set up my server PC in our living room right next to our (very nice and decent) HiFi system.  So I think I will continue streaming over ethernet...

 

Regarding Win updates see item 7.) in my post above.

 

T+A Fellow   (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021)

(*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum

 

T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328)

 

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1 hour ago, guiltyboxswapper said:

 

Hmmm that almost appears anti-competitive.  The newer XMOS ASICs clearly have much more headroom than the Amanero designs...

 

Complexity in hardware very often brings other unwanted side effects (e.g. jitter). In many respects the Amanero is a very fine solution. With a Windows source it performs just perfect.

 

I keep my fingers crossed that this now can also be achieved for Linux....

T+A Fellow   (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021)

(*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum

 

T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328)

 

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1 hour ago, blue2 said:

Not quite perfect - there's the problem reported by @louisxiawei

 

This problem only appears with very few DACs and there is a solution for it.

If you encounter this problem with your DAC, please contact the T+A service dept. or your T+A dealer.

 

T+A Fellow   (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021)

(*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum

 

T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328)

 

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On 9/22/2018 at 10:47 AM, blue2 said:

Thanks for all your responses on here. Good to know only some devices are affected. Can you explain your comment a little more? Does this mean installing a different firmware or some hardware repair? 

Thanks

 

Our findings were that the "faint pop" does not occur on all systems. It is not a hardware issue and it depends on quite a few things:

1.) the PC system (and maybe other software installed on it) - miska has already shed some light on possible causes

2.) the USB receiver firmware - we did not observe the pops with older firmware and do not observe it with the latest firmware version

3.) pops can also be caused by transmission errors - USB audio uses isochronous transmission and there is no way of error correction - this is by the way independent of the specific hardware (Amanero/XMOS) and also independent of the OS (Win/Linux).

So, if the pop problem occurs or not - this really depends on many factors...

By far the most systems we have checked did not show this problem.

 

T+A Fellow   (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021)

(*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum

 

T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328)

 

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6 hours ago, blue2 said:

@OE333At CEDIA 2018 T+A apparently displayed updates to the MP 8 Multi-Source Player and DAC 8 DSD which it is reported now supports DSD512???

Can you please clarify this statement? What is actually different between the new and previous versions? Can we have our DAC 8 DSD's upgraded and if so what will the cost be?

TIA

 

Currently DSD512 is supported from Windows sources only..

DSD512 / Linux is still under development.

So no change, yet.

 

T+A Fellow   (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021)

(*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum

 

T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328)

 

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  • 1 month later...
14 hours ago, Argopo said:

 

 

Since I am still encountering the same “pop” “chirping” static noise when playing back 96/192 family files upconverted to DSD512, I have revisited this thread for some updates.

 

It appears since the above posts by @louisxiawei in June, there has been updates to the DAC firmware and several iterations of the Amanero firmware which potentionally solved the problem, sort of. But, as of today, there is no official T+A “fix” for this problem because firmware is still being beta tested. Correct? So, those of us with this problem are still in wait mode?

 

And based on the past few pages, T+A considers this issue an isolated occurrence, so an official fix might not be forth coming. Which means I may need to start splicing together RS232 cables and playing Russian roulette with my DAC.

 

I think we are talking about 2 different things here:

1.) The "faint pop noise" which @louisxiawei mentioned. This occurs only with few DACs. If your DAC is affected,  this problem can be solved by a firmware update. The normal way to get this update installed on your DAC is to contact your T+A dealer or contact T+A service dept.

[Note: If you don't want to give your DAC to a dealer or send it to T+A service, you might alternatively consider option no. 2 below.]

 

2.) The other thing is DSD512 from a Linux based source. The DAC8DSD does not officially support Linux as operating system for the source. However: with a recent Linux kernel (> 4.15) the DAC8DSD will work with PCM up to 192kSps and DSD up to DSD128 (DoP mode).

For higher sample rates under Linux there is currently no official support. Amanero works on DSD512 compatibility for the USB receiver but this is still work in progress and only beta firmware versions are available directly from Amanero.

For those who want to experiment with the latest Amanero firmware on their DAC8DSD, it exists the possibility to install a firmware on the DAC8DSD which "opens" the DAC and  then permits to flash any USB receiver firmware (experimental or stable) from the Amanero repository on the DAC8DSD USB receiver chips.

After flashing the USB receiver with original Amanero firmware, the original Amanero Windows driver has to be used instead of the Windows driver from the T+A website.

Note: The Amanero Windows driver is functional identical to the T+A driver it only uses the standard VID/PID from Amanero instead of the T+A VID/PID.

 

So it is up to you. If you want to experiment (especially with DSD512 and Linux) use option 2, otherwise go the official way.

 

 

T+A Fellow   (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021)

(*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum

 

T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328)

 

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  • 5 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...
10 hours ago, volpone said:

 

To test DSD 512 "magic" i've tried using ASIO driver from a WIN 10 NUC. Lot of audible glitches (using 1099c beta FW) ! 

I presume 1099c is not supporting native DSD from ASIO and i have to reflash Amanero receiver to default T+A  firmware version. Could you please confirm ?

 

Question for me is to choose the better option (SQ related):

- Lightweight LINUX  ALSA streamer with DSD256 limitation => 1099c beta FW

OR

- More "noisy" WIN ASIO NUC (or other devices like AcePC T8 ) DSD 512 capable (default T+A / Amanero FW)

Any opinion, i have to choose "fromage ou dessert" . 

 

Yes, FW1099c is a beta test version for Linux only - it doesn't work properly with Windows (that is why we don't use it for series production). For Windows, please always use Amanero firmware version "DSD512x48x44" and CPLD version "CPLD_for_1080".

 

My recommendation clearly would be the AcePC T8 - I have tested it here for many hours. Transmission is very stable - I did not observe any lost packets or any other problems. I also can not find any difference in SQ or measured performance compared to a Linux based bridge. As the Ace PC is fanless it is also a good choice regarding mechanical noise.

 

Miskas recommended Logic Supply's CL100 is of course a more powerful alternative but at a higher price point...

 

T+A Fellow   (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021)

(*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum

 

T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328)

 

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  • 1 month later...
  • 8 months later...
37 minutes ago, John K said:

 

Thanks for the info. So the firmware is included in the service tool program?(exe file)

 

No, it is not included in the .exe file.

You can find it here: https://github.com/OE333/DAC8-Service-Tool/tree/master/DAC8DSD_firmware

Godd luck !

T+A Fellow   (Head of R&D @ T+A 1989-2021)

(*) My postings represent my private and personal opinion and hopefully are helpful to the members of this forum

 

T+A MP200 | T+A DAC200 | T+A A200 | T+A Talis S300 | DAW: Core i7 8700K - Linux 5.4.0 - Roonserver + HQP | NAA on RockPiE (RK3328)

 

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