T+a dac 8 dsd

[twluke]

This one?

T+A elektroakustik | Jadis

 

It's merely an old DAC 8, not a DAC 8 DSD...

[twluke]

At the Hong Kong AV show last Sunday, we saw a DAC 8 DSD on display at Jadis stand and asked how much it was. The Jadis rep, took out a many paged price list, and he located the DAC 8 DSD after some searching. I saw with my own eyes that the printed price was HK $ 25,000

 

Okay, so you have a sort of proof for the price, thank you.

 

Last June I bought a DAC 8 DSD from a Danish dealer with payment of about US$3100 including shipping fee (plus about US$150 of import tax on delivery to my place in Tokyo). Their service was quite good and effective, though they only accepted bank transfer of money for international order.

 

As I only needed this DAC to compare the SQ in playing DSD512 with my Buffalo 3SE (above the DAC 8 DSD in the picture) from Twisted Pear Audio using BBB/Botic as NAA, I’m quite satisfied with the price of purchase. BTW B3SE and BBB/Botic are quite comparable to DAC 8 DSD in playing DSD512.

 

Regards,

 

[twluke]

Hmmmm.....quite satisfied? Not very convincing in my books...would like to upgrade my Metrum Hex, but not sure this cuts the mustard!

 

I said: quite satisfied with the price. Being satisfied with this DAC or not is another subject. Please be careful.

 

Well, it’s my impression that people praising this DAC in this thread appear basically focusing on its ability to play DSD512 sources, mostly coming from upsampled ones either via ASIO-supported USB or NAA from HQ player. So, what they are actually praising may be the SQ of HQP providing these upsampled DSD512 sources and may not be the DAC 8 DSD itself which may be just working as a sort of mediator, perhaps substitutable with other ones of similar high sampling rate capability, whether chipless or not.

 

Anyway, I bought a DAC 8 DSD just for my experiment to compare the SQ of upsampled DSD512 from HQP running on a Win 10 machine of i7 6700k with my es9018 TPA DACs connected from BBB/Botic as NAA running on a linux distro, which became stabilized with the updated Botic driver by the author reflecting kind advice from Miska. My tentative conclusion: it’s quite difficult to find any difference in the SQ between them concerning playing upsampled DSD512.

 

BTW, my preference of routing sources to the DACs is via I2S/DSD serial interface. If implemented in this T+A DAC, it will become more versatile.

 

Regards,

[twluke]

please ignore this. ipod app incidentally sent it.

[twluke]

There are instructions on Amanero site.

Afraid to say that there is no instruction specified to T+A DAC 8 DSD box on the site. Though I'm quite accustomed to the procedure necessary to update the firmware of Amanero board (I mean Combo384 board), I suppose that it will not be that easy to update the firmware implemented into T+A DAC 8.

 

Though I have never opened this DAC box of mine, I could not locate the part corresponding to the pads to make a contact for erasing the flash memory of Amanero, the procedure necessary for the firmware update, as long as based on the picture shown in the #10 message of this thread. Also, without opening the DAC box, it will not be possible to do it. Furthermore, it is not confirmed whether or not the ConfigTool.exe used for writing CPLD and firmware into Combo384 can be applicable straightforward to this DAC. Correct me if I'm wrong and there are other ways for update.

 

That said, even if this update is really of value, it's my current thought that I will wait until T+A can accept it and become willing to provide a risk-free, official firmware update.

[twluke]

I still don't understand why bother instead of little endian. HQPlayer anyway supports both.

Maybe to support the current 0.19 MPD? (sorry for this OT comment)

[twluke]

Ignore this. The iPod app for CA occasionally causes this kind of unintended posting.

[twluke]

On 9/7/2018 at 1:44 AM, RS241 said:

 

Next try:

In this respect it would be interesting to hear from @louisxiawei and @wolft  if they have heard of any progress with that update tool ?

 

 

This morning I flashed the Amanero firmware on DAC 8 DSD to 2004be after updating the DAC firmware to Version 2.70 as shown below and am enjoying the sound of native DSD512 on linux (Ubuntu 18.04) via Roon/HQP with this DAC.

 

I've been quite aware of the noise issue pertinent to 2004be for DSD512 on linux in other DACs as reported elsewhere and the DAC 8 DSD after flashing was also not immune to it. However the results are not so discouraging. The noise does not occur so frequently, almost the same to what I experienced with Holo Audio Cyan, and its duration is usually within a few seconds, quite neglectable unless deeply focused on hearing. Apart from this noise issue, the SQ is quite satisfactory as expected and I'm going to live with this 2004be firmware for a while.

 

Well, sorry for my long introduction. After reading some posts concerning the methods to update the DAC 8 DSD firmware via RS232 in order to flash the Amanero firmware, I prepared a set of cutomized serial cable and plug for RS232 connection and confirmed them to work well for communication with the DAC by using an appropriate serial communication tool (CoolTerm both on Mac and Win10).

 

After that I sent a query mail about the availability of the latest DAC firmware to the T+A support. They were kind enough to send me a set of software and PDF manuals by e-mail. Among them, the TA_DAC8_ServiceTool, a kind of prefixed serial communication tool specially designed for DAC 8 DSD was, I would say, of a great help for fool-proof proceeding of updating work. No other serial application is required: only to prepare a set of RS232 cable and plug is sufficient for it. The related manual was also well written: quite comprehensive and intuitive. It was amazing to find the various combinations of buttons on the front DAC panel to work like commands as written in it. I'm quite grateful to Mr Lothar Wiemann at T+A for writing these excellent application and manuals.

 

Once the DAC firmware is updated to the latest V 2.70, Amanero firmware can be repeatedly flashed to check the different versions. If a noise-free condition is desired on linux, flashing to 1099c firmware with DSD256 in DoP will be perfect for now. Also, when using 2004be for DSD512, a particular CPLD (CPLD_1080_DSDSWAPPED) must be used to avoid channel swap, which has been known to occur in certain DACs.

 

As said before by someone, PID and VID of the DAC become Amanero: only a small, neglectable alteration. Otherwise there is no change in ordinary use of the DAC.

 

Regards,

[twluke]

12 minutes ago, guiltyboxswapper said:

Yep kept it for 2yrs+ and likely to stay longer at this rate.

 

Currently I have 2005be deployed and so far not a problem with native DSD 512.  

 

Thank you for mentioning this @OE333, and thanks for @louisxiawei and @twluke for following this through.

 

Also thanks to Dom at Amanero for persistence.  Like I said earlier, most commercial entities wouldn't have gone this far, they'd usually release this in a new product iteration.

 

Hi, thank you for this wonderful news.

 

I also updated the FW to 2005be. This appeared perfect for DSD512 via HQP/Roon on linux (Ubuntu 18.04) for the first 90 minutes. Unfortunately this happy hour didn't last so long, hampered by a kind of white noise, though very faint, emerging from nowhere and fading away a few minutes after. I think this 2005be is quite superior to 2004be and worthy of trying but am afraid to say that it should be still treated as a beta version.

 

Regards,

 

[twluke]

4 hours ago, guiltyboxswapper said:

 

I'm finding it very stable, though if I do a lot of track skips via HQPlayer (+ Roon in the chain) 1 in 20 tracks will start with a "chirp" again.  Once playing in a gapless fashion there are no issues to report.  Can very much live with this beta as a result.

 

I suspect if I was using HQPlayer directly the next issue wouldn't be an issue per say - HQPlayer wouldn't keep "renegotiating" with the DAC as it does when Roon is in the chain.

 

Hi,  I'm now running two DACs for hours in different rooms with the same 2005be Amanero FW for comparison: one is DAC 8 DSD and the other is Cyan DSD; both USB-connected to PCs (6700K and 8700K, respectively) with the latter having I2S connection via Amanero; each playing the same DSD512 sources via HQP/Roon on Ubuntu 18.04.

 

During this comparison, I experienced the same chirpy noise, probably the phase noise as you wrote before, in Cyan DSD as in DAC 8 DSD. There was no difference in the noise occurrence between the HQP/Roon combo and HQP alone. The common finding in them is that the noise became much less frequent but, once appeared, it tends to last longer than in 2004be. Also, what is remarkable is that Cyan DSD suffers less frequently from this noise than DAC 8 DSD. This is my impression that, if the latter were equipped with a port allowing I2S connection, the results might have been different.

 

That said, the overall quality of this new firmware is quite good and I also can live with it like you.

 

Regards,

[twluke]

On 9/16/2018 at 4:43 PM, guiltyboxswapper said:

I should add that I've placed small BGA heatsinks on my CPLD and MCU inside the T+A, which may explain the differing results. 

 

I previously applied heatsinks to an Amanero board with 2004be connected to a Cyan DSD, inspired by your previous comment as shown in the picture below. However, afraid to say that I couldn't get positive results in my case. Maybe dependent on the selection of heatsink and grease. Well, I might try the same approach with DAC 8 DSD, if the sound with the current 2005be is going to be less tolerable. But, for now, it's okay.

 

Regards,

[twluke]

19 hours ago, Miska said:

For a little while, such existed. There were big- and little-endian versions of the firmware. Driver still detects and supports both. The newest firmwares are big-endian only.

 

Since the introduction of firmware (actually a series of 200xbe) supporting native DSD of BE format on linux by Amanero, I've been quite accustomed to see a warning message in dmesg like below:

[    1.292138] usb 1-10: new high-speed USB device number 3 using xhci_hcd
[    1.440637] usb 1-10: config 1 has an invalid interface number: 3 but max is 2
[    1.440638] usb 1-10: config 1 has an invalid interface number: 3 but max is 2
[    1.440639] usb 1-10: config 1 has no interface number 0
[    1.441153] usb 1-10: New USB device found, idVendor=16d0, idProduct=071a
[    1.441154] usb 1-10: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3
[    1.441155] usb 1-10: Product: Combo384 Amanero
[    1.441156] usb 1-10: Manufacturer: Amanero Technologies
[    1.441156] usb 1-10: SerialNumber: 413-001
[    2.689600] usb 1-10: Warning! Unlikely big volume range (=32767), cval->res is probably wrong.
[    2.689602] usb 1-10: [10] FU [PCM Playback Volume] ch = 2, val = -32767/0/1
[    2.691127] usb 1-10: Warning! Unlikely big volume range (=32767), cval->res is probably wrong.
[    2.691129] usb 1-10: [10] FU [PCM Playback Volume] ch = 1, val = -32767/0/1

This is part of dmesg from a linux kernel (4.15.0-34-generic, Ubuntu 18.04) running on an i7 6700K PC, connected to a DAC 8 DSD with 2005be Amanero firmware, playing DSD512 via HQP/Roon. I'm not sure this warning can be relevant to the current noise issue but my impression is that it can be a sign of firmware with certain bugs.

 

Here is another example of firmware with no warning on dmesg:

[    1.288020] usb 1-10: new high-speed USB device number 3 using xhci_hcd
[    1.437251] usb 1-10: New USB device found, idVendor=16d0, idProduct=071a
[    1.437252] usb 1-10: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3
[    1.437253] usb 1-10: Product: Combo384 Amanero
[    1.437254] usb 1-10: Manufacturer: Amanero Technologies
[    1.437254] usb 1-10: SerialNumber: 413-001

One might notice that there is no complaints about invalid interface or volume range. This comes when the DAC 8 DSD is flashed to 1099c firmware which supports native DSD of LE format up to DSD256. The sound quality is excellent and beautiful.

 

I'll be happy if Miska can explain the background of this warning message.

 

TIA

[twluke]

29 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

This is a bug in UAC2 "mixer" controls in the firmware, similar can be seen with some other (XMOS based) DACs too. Usually it doesn't cause any functional issues and if it does, only in volume control. It should be fixed though, but it is not critical.

 

Understood. Thank you for taking your time.

[twluke]

Hi there. This is a small addition to my previous post.

 

On 9/9/2018 at 1:39 AM, twluke said:

-snip-

Among them, the TA_DAC8_ServiceTool, a kind of prefixed serial communication tool specially designed for DAC 8 DSD was, I would say, of a great help for fool-proof proceeding of updating work. No other serial application is required: only to prepare a set of RS232 cable and plug is sufficient for it.

-snip-

 

Shown below is an example of cable setting necessary for updating the DAC firmware to V 2.70.

A combination of USB to RS232 (DB9) serial adapter cable connected to RJ11 (or RJ12) cable with the pin assignment indicated by the PDF manual from T+A. Hope this will be of some help for those who might be interested in the DAC firmware update.

 

[twluke]

Hi all,

 

More than a week ago there has been a release of new Amanero firmware (2006be10) supporting native DSD512 with BE format on linux in a thread of Github Amanero issue and the people flashed their Amanero to this new version confirmed that it worked well without any annoying noises. I also confirmed that it was working rock-solid in playing DSD512 via Roon/HQP on Linux (Ubuntu 18.04) on my DAC8 DSD. This firmware can be said to be nearly equivalent to the final release to come.

 

This morning, there was a notification of the release of Windows driver supporting ASIO for this new firmware with related URL from Amanero/Domenico in the thread above but the message has been deleted or cancelled somehow. Anyway I downloaded the driver and installed on a Windows10 system and played DSD512 sources via Roon/HQP on my DAC8 DSD (its firmware already updated to v2.70 with the help of OE333 as I wrote previously). Well, the new driver with ASIO support worked quite well and  I'm now enjoying the sound of DSD512, noise-free, from HQP on this DAC for more than hours.

 

Just for your info. Maybe expecting comments from OE333.

[twluke]

5 minutes ago, juanitox said:

 

and if you could remind us he proceed to update to V2.70 it will be great too 😉

The best answers can be obtained from OE333. Also, you might want to check my previous post for reference. If interested, send PM to him.

[twluke]

1 hour ago, sbenyo said:

I am trying to prepare a cable to update firmware.

 

Can anyone help with the D9 to rj12 adapter connection? I used black in 5, red in 2, yellow in 3 and I am not sure what to do with 1 or if anything else is missing. Thanks!

 

Leave the "1" unconnected. It is of no use for this serial connection as indicated in the T+A instruction below.

 

Rgds,

[twluke]

19 minutes ago, sbenyo said:

Thanks. I am trying to run the T+A service tool. I downloaded it from github.  It opens only in the taskbar but nothing else happens. If I try to click it, it does not open in a window and I cannot do anything with it. What should I do? How I can run it properly?

 

Maybe I am using a wrong one. I tried from two different PCs and it's behaving the same.

 

Are you trying to open it as administrator? If not, it won't open (though it is my simple guess).

[twluke]

16 minutes ago, twluke said:

Are you trying to open it as administrator? If not, it won't open (though it is my simple guess).

 

Some correction. The service tool application may usually open at the user level privilege, if you already have the firmware  text file to be uploaded to the DAC on your PC.

[twluke]

1 hour ago, sbenyo said:

Not working in either user or admin levels. I also tried to copy the firmware txt file to the same directory as the tool and it is still the same.

 

Hmm, now the possible causes may be: incorrect RS232 connection or corrupted tool.exe file. If the case is the latter, you might try this one which I previously received from T+A.

[twluke]

1 hour ago, sbenyo said:

-snip-

It was not easy but it's over now. Anyone that needs assistance with it, feel free to contact me. Thanks for all the help (mental one as well  )

 

Congratulations. But the culprit of your firmware update problem appears all deriving from using a wrong pin assignment between RJ11/12 and RS232 cables. If the pin assignment was correct before the initiation of firmware update, the service tool would have opened smoothly and you could have gone straight to the updating process without such sweating. Please keep your experience to your own and do not extend it to others.

 

Rgds,

[twluke]

28 minutes ago, sbenyo said:

If I update the Amanero firmware, can I go back to the T+A original one if I don't like it?

 

No.

 

Quote

Where can I find instruction how to update the Amanero firmware?

 

Go to: https://amanero.com/combo384_firmware.htm

Find the name of firmware_2006be10, then download  the file right to it (oem tool 117). Read carefully the manual in it as well as the instruction from T+A. Once more:  READ them many times until you fully understand them.

 

Rgds,

[twluke]

4 minutes ago, sbenyo said:

-snip-

Thanks for the update details. I will check them carefully before I try. Do you know if I can revert back to original firmware if I don't like it?

 

Du you mean the Amanero firmware? If so, the answer is no because the updating process includes erasing the firmware chip. Anyway, the process itself is quite simple and you can repeat it many times until you accustom to it.

 

BTW, for CPLD, select CPLD for 1081 (not 1080) or you will have to select "CPLD_1081_DSDSWAPPED" if there is a problem of LR channel swap after update. For firmware, always select 2006be10 which enables native DSD512 on linux (and on Win10). If you need an ASIO driver for Win10, search this GitHub Amanero issue thread. You can find the location by the post from Domenico, the author of Amanero firmware.

 

Rgds,