wtfplay

[rando]

Runs not boots.  It relies on the OS for say a Windows sound card or DAC driver.  That small little program on a usb drive only works because everything is set up already.  Could you affirm this @frd__

[Norton]

Many thanks frd__

 

 

[frd__]

@rando Boots. Boots and runs. It does not rely on anything that may have been set up already. How could it?

 

[rando]

I might be suffering some specific W10 + BIOS on a legacy device issues.  Pulled internal drive from laptop and it refused to boot.  Has also been booting into W10 and instantly opening folder showing contents of USB drive which it shouldn't be able to read.  I've been having so much fun I didn't try it in anything not 10 years old.      

[AnotherSpin]

Fryderyk, I will appreciate your comment on the following (when you will have time, no hurry). I am trying different 'f' settings. At the present moment I found out that the increase of the number gives to the sound more fullness, energy, polish and warmth. All instruments have more body and weight. But, it is not so transparent and airy. If I go back to lesser figures, like 2048, or 4096, the sound is crisper, but thinner at the same time, and also slightly harsher. So for the moment I am more comfortable with 8192, or even 32768. My question is: what is actually happens with sound with the change of this setting? In plain non technical words?)) Is it something similar to equalizing?

[AnotherSpin]

[....]

[frd__]

@AnotherSpin:

 

The next paragraphs may not be 100% accurate, but I think they are enough
to get the idea.

 

During the playback the operating system is sending the audio data to the
sound card. The audio data are sent in chunks. In principle, the length of
those chunks is defined as period size (-f parameter). We can also say,

that whenever the sound card is ready for the next chunk it will notify the

OS about that by generating an interrupt. 

 

To ensure the smooth playback the sound card needs to be fed with new audio
data at the sufficient rate. It means that the data can be sent in small
chunks, but more frequently, or in bigger chunks but less frequently. 

 

Therefore, we can say that by setting the period size we define a certain
frequency for audio data transfer. A couple of things will follow this
frequency: sound card interrupts, DMA transfers and, of course, the player
application. In other words, period size defines the data chunk for the
sound card, but also determines how often things happen in the computer.

 

It should be noted that for USB sound cards, the situation is slightly more
complex than the described above, but in principle, we are talking about
very similar process.

 

Another question is how all that translates to the perceived SQ. I believe
that, it depends a lot on the particular hardware configuration and the
preferences of the listener. 

 

I hope that you will find this helpful.
 

F

[AnotherSpin]

10 hours ago, frd__ said:

@AnotherSpin:

 

The next paragraphs may not be 100% accurate, but I think they are enough
to get the idea.

 

During the playback the operating system is sending the audio data to the
sound card. The audio data are sent in chunks. In principle, the length of
those chunks is defined as period size (-f parameter). We can also say,

that whenever the sound card is ready for the next chunk it will notify the

OS about that by generating an interrupt. 

 

To ensure the smooth playback the sound card needs to be fed with new audio
data at the sufficient rate. It means that the data can be sent in small
chunks, but more frequently, or in bigger chunks but less frequently. 

 

Therefore, we can say that by setting the period size we define a certain
frequency for audio data transfer. A couple of things will follow this
frequency: sound card interrupts, DMA transfers and, of course, the player
application. In other words, period size defines the data chunk for the
sound card, but also determines how often things happen in the computer.

 

It should be noted that for USB sound cards, the situation is slightly more
complex than the described above, but in principle, we are talking about
very similar process.

 

Another question is how all that translates to the perceived SQ. I believe
that, it depends a lot on the particular hardware configuration and the
preferences of the listener. 

 

I hope that you will find this helpful.
 

F

 

Thank you Fryderyk, 

 

It is very interesting and helpful! I understand there is no special mending of the sound (like equalizing) goes on with the change of frames, correct? In other words, sound is the same, it only comes to the sound card in the bigger or smaller chunks and less or more often. The other thing is how sound card deals with it. At least it makes my heart easy with frames settings experiments - I was afraid that going out of default settings gives my music less fidelity..)))

 

I use optical connection now. If I remember it well, there was no so much hearable difference caused by frames setting with USB connection. 

[frd__]

@anotherSpin: Correct, the audio data are intact.
 

[rando]

Turns out I was suffering a lack of music due to having wtfplayer loaded on a defective USB stick.  This program has given new life to more good quality outdated equipment than I'd have ever imagined.  Such as a massive for the time 512 MB memory stick 

[Norton]

33 minutes ago, rando said:

This program has given new life to more good quality outdated equipment than I'd have ever imagined.  

Not sure it counts as "outdated", but my old Oppo 105 is my only DAC at the moment and I was just thinking how good it sounds with WtFP,  much better as a USB DAC  than I remembered and certainly better sounding than when spinning the same discs.

[robocop]

Norton try the new Oppo 205!!! Its amazing, I've replaced my Benchmark DAC2 with it and no regrets. The new Sabre chips are something else.

 

Robert

[tmtomh]

3 hours ago, robocop said:

Norton try the new Oppo 205!!! Its amazing, I've replaced my Benchmark DAC2 with it and no regrets. The new Sabre chips are something else.

 

Robert

 

Wow, that's quite a ringing endorsement! Interesting. I have a 105 but will keep my eye on the 205...

[AnotherSpin]

Update on -f settings – after experimenting with bigger numbers I returned to default setting of 2048, which in a long run sounds more 'true'. Or, even 1024. 

[audioarcher]

Anyone experiment with different usb sticks with wtfplay on them? Wondering if there is any sq difference between different ones?

 

I recently tried the latest version 6.2. In order to do so, I bought a new usb 3.0 stick and loaded 6.2 on it. Tried it out for a couple of days and decided I liked the 6.1 better. So I put the old 2.0 usb stick back in. Could it be that the reason I liked the old version because of the usb stick or was it the software? I have read that usb 3.0 is noisier.

 

Any thoughts on this Frd? 

[AnotherSpin]

22 minutes ago, audioarcher said:

Anyone experiment with different usb sticks with wtfplay on them? Wondering if there is any sq difference between different ones?

 

I recently tried the latest version 6.2. In order to do so, I bought a new usb 3.0 stick and loaded 6.2 on it. Tried it out for a couple of days and decided I liked the 6.1 better. So I put the old 2.0 usb stick back in. Could it be that the reason I liked the old version because of the usb stick or was it the software? I have read that usb 3.0 is noisier.

 

Any thoughts on this Frd? 

 

Do you know you can remove a stick from the port after wtfplay launched?

[audioarcher]

That's right. I forgot. Everything loads into RAM on the computer. It should make no difference then.

 

Must be that I prefer 6.1 in my system. Also seem to like kernel 15 over 16.  

[frd__]

To be honest I have never tried USB3 memory stick. I do not even have one.  First, my development laptop does not have USB3 ports. Second, I have a bunch of old 2GB USB2 memory sticks, that I originally brought  from some expo, so I use them. I must not forget to try USB3 some day.
 

[AnotherSpin]

I tried two different usb sticks, one is very old and beaten 2GB Transcend and other one is brand new 16GB SunDisk - in fact I bought it specifically to keep wtf on a newest stick. Not a single difference for wtf between two sticks except one - installation process lasts for a minute or two with a new SunDisk and for about 15 minutes with old Transcend.

[Norton]

On 29 September 2017 at 10:28 PM, robocop said:

Norton try the new Oppo 205!!! Its amazing, I've replaced my Benchmark DAC2 with it and no regrets. The new Sabre chips are something else.

 

Robert

 

Still surprised by how good my "old" 105 sounds now it's back in my system for a while. Have you had an opportunity to compare the 205 to the 105?   I'm surprised that the Sonica DAC (which I think shares the 9038 chip and probably  a lot more with the 205) has only had fairly lukewarm  reviews so far.

[robocop]

I never owned the 105, I had the Cambridge 751(Oppo 95 equiv) which had better multi channel output design. Thats all gone now back to good old stereo. I was waiting for surround sound music but its never taken off.

 

In saying that the 205 did beat the Cambridge sonically on all formats notably blueray,  SACD and CD. I used the Benchmark DAC2 for computer audio output. 

Yes the Sonica has had mixed reviews. The 205 is improved over the Sonica I believe but I've not heard it. I watch live concerts first then music so the 205 covers a lot of bases for me in one box, less cables. I still may get a dedicated DAC but waiting for better USB input design and 32/768 capable. Xxhighend outputs 32/768 upsampled. The Chinese are showing promise in this direction but more work to be done.

Mind you I'm very happy with the 205 so in no hurry in fact may not bother unless a big breakthrough in sound design appears, unlikely as we seem to have small improvements over time. The 205 does it for me sonically at present.

[bodiebill]

On 8/15/2017 at 11:10 AM, frd__ said:

@bodiebill: On the Amanero website you can find a firmware update tool. This tool allows you to change Amanero's firmware to whatever is available. You will find 1099be there. The situation is not straightforward. There are a few important points to keep in mind:

 

*  There are two firmware images: one for ARM chip and one for CPLD chip. You will see a lot of versions for both images. I am not sure whether both need to be loaded at once. I am guessing that yes. I am also guessing that you need to load ARM and CPLD images that match, or in other words - that know how to talk to each other.

* The tool allows to change also a bunch of other settings in the firmware - there is a risk that you break something.

* I do not know if there is an easy way to figure out what the current firmware version of an Amanero board. As far as I remember the update tool does not tell you this. The webpage tells what is the default firmware version loaded in the stock Amanero's, but your DAC manufacturer may have changed that and loaded different firmware. It is better to ask the manufacturer to be sure.

* There is always a risk of breaking stuff. I this situation you can always erase the Amanero's firmware  and try again, but make sure that you know the firmware version/configuration that works (see the previous point).

 

Bottom line is this: if you know what you are doing and breaking stuff won't give you a heart attack - go ahead and play with it.

 

@Fryderyk:

Trying to make dsd256 work with my Lampizator/Amanero, there is finally some progress. Minorisuke has kindly given some useful advice and Lampizator's Lukasz Fikus answered:

The firmware is available only if you get and install OEMTOOL and the tool will find firmware automatically. You can install newer ones and older ones, upgrade and downgrade. The manual is inside OEMTOOL package. It is on-line at amanero website.

So I will go ahead and use oemtool117 soon, probably upgrading to firmware version 2003be_71a. Is that a good idea? Would this version work with the latest wtfplay kernel?

 

 

[frd__]

@bodiebill: To be honest I do not know.  The best way is to try it. I suppose you can always go back to the original firmware.

[bodiebill]

ok, we are all leaning here :-)

I will keep you posted,

[pm325]

@bodiebill,

see topic T+a dac 8 dsd, page 69.