Ceiling panels installed...what have I been waiting for?!

[tboooe]

I finally got around to installing some broadband absorption panels on the ceiling of my listening room. Man, wish I had not been so lazy and installed these a long time ago! I immediately noticed more clarity and notes have a more defined "edge" to them. The improvement is greater than any of the tweaks I've tried in my system like cables or linear power supplies. As others have said, room treatments are a critical part of getting the most out of your audio.

 

I installed the Vicoustic Cinema Round Premium panels with a 1 3/4" air gap. I like how the panels look like they are floating with the air gap. The rest of my room already has bass traps, absorption at the first reflection point on the side walls, diffusion panels on the front wall, and a large rug. I plan to add some absorption to the back wall since it is directly behind my listening position. My listening room is very small.

[jumper]

Congrats! Panels are high in my list to do. Are you in the US? I didn't know Vicoustic was sold here, I was looking at GIK or ATS.

[tboooe]

Do it now! You won't regret it. Yes, I am in SoCal. Visit Vicousticusa.com. Their products are pricey but I like how they look. I use a combination of Vicoustic, GIK, and RealTraps.

[harris4crna]

Pics? Is this Tbooe I was trying to convince to buy Accordos?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[tboooe]

Pics? Is this Tbooe I was trying to convince to buy Accordos?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile mobile app

That's me! Great memory. I ended up getting the SF Guarneri Evolution which I am very happy with. Goo to see you on these forums. I'll see what I can do about pics later today.

 

Do you still have the same speakers?

[harris4crna]

These FS Ktemas are going to be buried with me. Although, I have paired them with Accuphase and they love class A amplification. I'm in Japan now and no longer living in California. Definitely getting my electronic fix here. Yes pics would be highly appreciated.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[tboooe]

Here is a pic of 2 of the panels installed:

 

[bkinbk]

Are those directly above your speakers?

[tboooe]

Are those directly above your speakers?

No they are placed exactly half way between the front of speaker and the listening position. I read from a variety of places that is the best place for ceiling panels.

[wanta911]

Cool! I have the cinema rounds on the wall behind my listening position. How did you fix them to the ceiling?

[tboooe]

Cool! I have the cinema rounds on the wall behind my listening position. How did you fix them to the ceiling?

Yeah, I really like how the Vicoustic products look. I have stayed away from acoustic panels for a long time because I thought all of them are just too ugly.

 

As for how I install them to the ceiling. I have an aversion to putting holes in my walls (or ceilings) unless absolutely necessary. When it comes to my audio, I want to be able to move things around. To mount these panels as well as the Vicoustic Wavewood products on the front wall, I use the 3M Command brand of removable velcro strips. For these panels I went overboard and bought the 16lb versions since I didnt want the panels falling on my head!

 

In the back of the panels I glued some ply wood pieces that would give the velcro strips a hard, flat surface to adhere to. Here you can see I laid out the velcro strips on the ply wood pieces. You can also see where I messed up. Originally I used too small of mounting spacers placed too close together which caused the panel to be a bit more difficult to mount. Dont mind the mess up in the corners of the panel. Those were where the mounting ply wood was when I had these panels installed vertically on my wall.

 

I then cut 4 2x4 pieces of lumber into 2" spacers. I applied both sides of the velcro to the ceiling and plywood mounting pieces facing part the 2" wood spacers.

 

Here is a pic of the 2" spacers already on the ceiling:

 

I found it easier to have the velcro strips on the spacer then press the panel up on to the adhesive side.

 

Here is a pic the Vicoustic Wavewood panels I've had up on my walls for almost 1.5 years using this same install method:

[wanta911]

Excellent - thanks!

 

I was wondering what the best non-permanent way to add panels to the ceiling would be.

 

As I said, I have the cinema rounds on my front & rear walls. I also use the command strips but in this application I only use the hook half of the velcro that holds just the small section of fabric that folds around to the rear of the panels. I first tried this as a temporary measure but they have been up for over 2 years and haven't even looked like falling off. Of course this would not work on the ceiling as it depends on gravity to grab the hook pile.

 

Here's a pic:

 

[tboooe]

WOW! Very classy looking room. I wish I had a larger listening room but alas I have been confined to just my small study. Love those B&W speakers! I used to own the 805S, 804S, and 802D.

[Gonzbull]

Great stuff. I've always been an advocate of room treatment coming from a recording background. No point in investing in components when what your hearing is not what the system is putting out.

[wanta911]

WOW! Very classy looking room. I wish I had a larger listening room but alas I have been confined to just my small study. Love those B&W speakers! I used to own the 805S, 804S, and 802D.

 

Thanks - the 803s do OK

 

But IMO Sonus Faber really know how to make a speaker look classy - it's an Italian thing that also applies to a lot of other gear including cars and even white goods. I bet those Revolutions sound great.

 

It's nice to have plenty of space but at the end of the day it's all about what you do with the space you have. One day I will have to move to a smaller place, in which case the B&Ws will be sold and I can look forward to shopping for some good stand mounts. SF will be high on my audition list

[mourip]

I did a similar thing with a pair of GIK traps. I used a mirror held on the ceiling to find out where I could see the drivers from the listening position and then placed the panels there.

[tboooe]

Great stuff. I've always been an advocate of room treatment coming from a recording background. No point in investing in components when what your hearing is not what the system is putting out.

 

I did a similar thing with a pair of GIK traps. I used a mirror held on the ceiling to find out where I could see the drivers from the listening position and then placed the panels there.

 

I am slowly understanding more and more about room treatments. I am planning on getting something like the Dayton OnmiMic2 to help me actually measure my room response, instead of just randomly putting panels everywhere!

 

Thanks - the 803s do OK

 

But IMO Sonus Faber really know how to make a speaker look classy - it's an Italian thing that also applies to a lot of other gear including cars and even white goods. I bet those Revolutions sound great.

 

It's nice to have plenty of space but at the end of the day it's all about what you do with the space you have. One day I will have to move to a smaller place, in which case the B&Ws will be sold and I can look forward to shopping for some good stand mounts. SF will be high on my audition list

 

I cant complain about the SF Evolutions. You are right about their design, its just beautiful to look at. For my kind of music (acoustic, vocals, small venue), these suit me perfectly. Even if I had a larger room I would still get monitors. I am hoping to add a sub soon as well. By the way, my kids have been to OZ twice to visit family. They love it there!

[JW Audio]

 

I have to agree with ceiling panels. They remove the slight blur that reflections can cause in the image.

 

My humble listening room.

[Axiom05]

I am slowly understanding more and more about room treatments. I am planning on getting something like the Dayton OnmiMic2 to help me actually measure my room response, instead of just randomly putting panels everywhere!

 

Sometimes it is better not knowing what the room measures like. Place panels where it makes sense to do so and trust your ears. A few years ago I invested in room measurement stuff and spent a lot of time and effort trying to optimize things. The measurements always look worse than they sound and any gross anomalies you probably already know about because you can hear them. Place absorption in the first reflection points on the side walls and the ceiling, put bass traps in corners for maximum effect and use as many bass traps as you can, don't over damp the room (which is why I like RealTraps). Knowing what the room measured like did not really help me improve things, it only served to make me depressed. The major problem frequencies I already knew about as they were audible and I had already pin-pointed them using simple test tones on a CD and a SPL. I was never able to solve the major issues with changes in either speaker position or listening position or by increasing the number of bass traps; these problems were inherent in the construction of the room/house. Bass traps definitely help with tighter bass but they can't fix big problems, especially at frequencies below ~60Hz. In a small room where you really have limited space to work with, you may have little ability to address the problems shown in measurements, provided you even know how to address them. What is the root of the problem? If you are the type of person who won't stop fiddling until perfection is reached, I would strongly recommend not measuring your room. Trust your ears, save money (buy more music or add more bass traps) and enjoy the music. As always, YMMV. This is just based on my own personal experience. Yes, room acoustic treatments definitely improve things but having measurements doesn't necessarily help you use the products.

[tboooe]

Sometimes it is better not knowing what the room measures like.

Good point. Ignorance is bliss sometimes! However, I cannot leave well enough alone!

[Axiom05]

Good point. Ignorance is bliss sometimes! However, I cannot leave well enough alone!

 

LOL. Well I hope that you will keep us abreast of your discoveries and solutions. I know that it is very tempting to do it. For software, I recommend Room Eq Wizard (REM) for Windows and FuzzMeasure for Mac.

[mulberry bush]

I’ve certainly found acoustic treatment in the listening room to be well worthwhile. I have sound absorbing panels in the corners and behind the speakers. This made as big an overall improvement in SQ as a major component upgrade – but of course far cheaper. I’ve never considered the ceiling as it just seemed too difficult.

 

However, this idea seems doable and I might just give it a try. Tboooe – do you have a link for the best source you found for positioning ceiling panels? Why is having a 2” space between the panel and the ceiling the best approach? The Vicoustic website shows the DC2 diffusion panels being used on the ceiling in some rooms. Are there some basic rules of thumb on when to use diffusers or absorbers?

 

As an aside, I wonder why Vicoustic themselves don’t seem to have a ceiling fitting bracket for the ‘Cinema Round’ panels? They seem to suggest just sticking them straight on.

[tboooe]

Here is the text directly from the realtraps website:

 

Finding the ceiling and floor reflection points is easy. Assuming your ears are at the same height as the tweeters, which they should be, the reflection points are exactly halfway between you and the loudspeakers. So if the speakers are six feet in front of you, the center of the ceiling absorber will be three feet in front of your head, as shown in Figure 1. If your floor is reflective I recommend placing a small throw rug directly under the absorbing panel on the ceiling.

 

Here is the link:

RealTraps - How To Set Up a Room

 

As for the air gap, having a space behind the panels allows it to absorb lower frequencies. I read from the various sources that the gap should be at least as wide as the thickness of the panel itself. There is some math behind this but I just went with the general rule of thumb. I am not sure if doing so really helps but I love the way doing so makes the panels look like they are floating.

 

Check out the 4th paragraph in this link that talks about air gap:

RealTraps - Alternative Test Methods

 

As for diffusing versus absorption, I actually had Vicoustic do an analysis of my room and they recommended a combination on the ceiling. Interestingly, Realtraps recommends 100% absorption on the ceiling. Its really up to your listening preferences.

[mulberry bush]

Thanks, much appreciated.

[Gonzbull]

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/