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HQPlayer with Roon vs standalone sound quality


miguelito

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Haha... Come on Miska, we all know you created the GUIs out of the goodness of your heart, but you really use the command line! :)

 

Sure! Now everybody can do it with the included hqp-control command line utility... ;)

 

You know, when I'm developing HQPlayer I have just some 10 terminal windows and four text editor windows open. And that's all.

 

And with the HQPlayer Embedded there's no GUI included at all!

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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I strongly disagree. I have read through hundreds of opinions about HQP on this forum, many people suggest to upsample from 44,1 to 88,2 but not from 44,1 to 192. When I try both, most of my 44,1 material sounds better at 88,2 than at 192. The same applies to 48 at 96...

PCM sample rates are of two families:

44.1k and its multiples (88.2k, 176.4k, ...) we call as 44.1k sample rate family.

48k and its multiples we call as 48k sample rate family.

 

Sometimes computer performance or maybe some HW limits cause that upsampling between these families is not suitable, for example it can cause dropouts.

That brought requirement for HQPlayer to allow to stay within 44.1k or 48k sample rate families during resampling. That ensures for example if max. sampling rate is set to 192k, that 44.1k will be upsampled to 176.4 but 48k to 192.

 

If your DAC cannot upsample to 176.4 this setting seem to be useless for you.

i7 11850H + RTX A2000 Win11 HQPlayer ► Topping HS02 ► 2x iFi iSilencer ► SMSL D300 ► DIY headamp DHA1 ► HiFiMan HE-500
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Jud, point taken. I will buy a DAC that suites the developers requirements.

 

Or ... You had 30 days of trial to find out if HQPlayer suits your needs. You could ask here within that 30 days before your payment.

i7 11850H + RTX A2000 Win11 HQPlayer ► Topping HS02 ► 2x iFi iSilencer ► SMSL D300 ► DIY headamp DHA1 ► HiFiMan HE-500
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When I try both, most of my 44,1 material sounds better at 88,2 than at 192. The same applies to 48 at 96...

 

If you like it that way, then it is easier. Set PCM output rate limit in HQPlayer settings to 96000 and enable "Auto rate family". Then leave the rate selection in main window to "Auto". It'll switch output rate to 88.2k for 44.1/88.2/176.4 source rates and 96k for 48/96/192 source rates.

 

Having a "hole" in set of supported sampling rates is a DAC limitation and typically indicates that the DAC is really optimized for 48k-base rates and 44.1k ones are possibly generated through DPLL conversion from 24.576 MHz or similar clock.

 

The point is that Demian does all of this a lot better than you IMHO but HQP sounds better - nothing else.

 

That sounds a bit self contradictory doesn't it? :)

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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So even if HQP is all about upsampling as you say in fact it is with limitations, because otherwise it would allow me to set different upsampling rates per original sample rate just as Audirvana does.

In HQP:

1- Select "Auto rate family" - this will limit the upsampling rate to a power of 2 multiple (generally a good idea). If your DAC goes to 192, then for 44 it will be 176.

2- If you really want 88, set "Sample rate" to 96000

3- I tend to prefer: Filter->poly-sinc-shrt-mp and Dither->TPDF

 

This gets you what you want. I have not found a lower rate (eg 88 vs 176) to sound better prefer power of 2.

 

 

PS: Haha... Just saw you got like 3x the same answer.

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If your DAC cannot upsample to 176.4 this setting seem to be useless for you.

No, it cannot replay 176,4. Its the WM 8741 chip. I need find me a DAC without limits. No problem.

Software > Roon Server & HQ Player4 on Windows 2019/AO & MacMini MMK (plus Audirvana 3.5)  > Netgear GS105EV2 > Meicord Opal > Naim NDX 2 > Naim SN2 + Lyngdorf CD-2 + Rega RP8/Aria >  > Harbeth SHL5 plus

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Yes, I knew HQP would not allow me to do that. In my opinion it is not fair to request additions or changes without having licensed a software, but maybe that is too much information.

Software > Roon Server & HQ Player4 on Windows 2019/AO & MacMini MMK (plus Audirvana 3.5)  > Netgear GS105EV2 > Meicord Opal > Naim NDX 2 > Naim SN2 + Lyngdorf CD-2 + Rega RP8/Aria >  > Harbeth SHL5 plus

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If you like it that way, then it is easier. Set PCM output rate limit in HQPlayer settings to 96000 and enable "Auto rate family". Then leave the rate selection in main window to "Auto". It'll switch output rate to 88.2k for 44.1/88.2/176.4 source rates and 96k for 48/96/192 source rates.

 

Having a "hole" in set of supported sampling rates is a DAC limitation and typically indicates that the DAC is really optimized for 48k-base rates and 44.1k ones are possibly generated through DPLL conversion from 24.576 MHz or similar clock.

 

That's a very interesting answer. Appreciated. It seems that most of your fans around here including the judge, have not figured that out yet. I will try out later today and let you know how it works out.

 

I will also get me a monster DAC in order to get the full HQP experience.

 

Chris

Software > Roon Server & HQ Player4 on Windows 2019/AO & MacMini MMK (plus Audirvana 3.5)  > Netgear GS105EV2 > Meicord Opal > Naim NDX 2 > Naim SN2 + Lyngdorf CD-2 + Rega RP8/Aria >  > Harbeth SHL5 plus

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In HQP:

1- Select "Auto rate family" - this will limit the upsampling rate to a power of 2 multiple (generally a good idea). If your DAC goes to 192, then for 44 it will be 176.

2- If you really want 88, set "Sample rate" to 96000

3- I tend to prefer: Filter->poly-sinc-shrt-mp and Dither->TPDF

 

This gets you what you want. I have not found a lower rate (eg 88 vs 176) to sound better prefer power of 2.

 

 

PS: Haha... Just saw you got like 3x the same answer.

 

Also to you, much appreciated, will try.

Software > Roon Server & HQ Player4 on Windows 2019/AO & MacMini MMK (plus Audirvana 3.5)  > Netgear GS105EV2 > Meicord Opal > Naim NDX 2 > Naim SN2 + Lyngdorf CD-2 + Rega RP8/Aria >  > Harbeth SHL5 plus

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That sounds a bit self contradictory doesn't it? :)

 

If it sounds self contradictory to you than this is the way my statements sounds to you.

 

In my opinion it makes logical sense though: I like the Audirvana GUI a lot more. That's "all the rest". The SQ of HQP is superior to that of Audirvana in my system (to judge: in my system!) but "nothing else" is.

 

But I might be wrong and get me a superior DAC to experience all the other things HQP can do.

 

Chris

Software > Roon Server & HQ Player4 on Windows 2019/AO & MacMini MMK (plus Audirvana 3.5)  > Netgear GS105EV2 > Meicord Opal > Naim NDX 2 > Naim SN2 + Lyngdorf CD-2 + Rega RP8/Aria >  > Harbeth SHL5 plus

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I drag and drop into HQPlayer from iTunes, which I still find to be the best music file browser available for Mac (more specifically it's five column browser).

 

Maybe we could have a HQPlayer browsing module that would load all tags from a music library, and selecting a track would trigger HQPlayer Desktop (for me the best music file player for mac)... :)

 

R

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HQPlayer Desktop / Mac mini → Intona 7054 → RME ADI-2 DAC FS (DSD256)

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WM8741 certainly can, and also 352.8/384k PCM. Plus DSD64, even in "Direct DSD" mode. The limitation is somewhere else, around the USB/S/PDIF receiver and clocking...

 

Yeah, but for some reason Teddy implemented it with 24/192 limited, the same in the Rega DACs (the version before Rega DAC R), they all go to 192 only and Teddy confirmed that the TeddyDac does not play 176,4.

Software > Roon Server & HQ Player4 on Windows 2019/AO & MacMini MMK (plus Audirvana 3.5)  > Netgear GS105EV2 > Meicord Opal > Naim NDX 2 > Naim SN2 + Lyngdorf CD-2 + Rega RP8/Aria >  > Harbeth SHL5 plus

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Yeah, but for some reason Teddy implemented it with 24/192 limited, the same in the Rega DACs (the version before Rega DAC R), they all go to 192 only and Teddy confirmed that the TeddyDac does not play 176,4.

 

Actually, after a bit of further thinking, you can also leave the PCM rate limit setting to 192k in HQPlayer settings, enable auto-rate family and leave the output rate selection in main window to Auto.

 

This should result 44.1k base rates ending up as 88.2k and 48k base rates as 192k. If the DAC doesn't advertise 176.4k rate, the rate search in HQPlayer will end up selecting highest advertised rate from each respective family (subject to the limit-setting).

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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If the DAC doesn't advertise 176.4k rate, the rate search in HQPlayer will end up selecting highest advertised rate from each respective family (subject to the limit-setting).

 

I didn't know about such a functionality. Good to know.

i7 11850H + RTX A2000 Win11 HQPlayer ► Topping HS02 ► 2x iFi iSilencer ► SMSL D300 ► DIY headamp DHA1 ► HiFiMan HE-500
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Actually, after a bit of further thinking, you can also leave the PCM rate limit setting to 192k in HQPlayer settings, enable auto-rate family and leave the output rate selection in main window to Auto.

 

This should result 44.1k base rates ending up as 88.2k and 48k base rates as 192k. If the DAC doesn't advertise 176.4k rate, the rate search in HQPlayer will end up selecting highest advertised rate from each respective family (subject to the limit-setting).

 

Miska, appreciate you spend time thinking about my issue, that's all I can ask.

 

Well, your first idea worked fine and I am clearly ending up with Poly-Sinc-short and Gauss1. Only with 44.1 to 88,2 and 176,4 to 88,2 Poly-Sinc standard sounds better than all the others. I have no clue as to why that is but maybe because of the hole you mentioned earlier and that my DAC is actually optimized for 48,96,192. NS4 never sounds better than Gauss1 and to be honest, the shapers do not make much of a difference in my system but the different filters are well hearable.

 

Now to your second idea. Setting 192 and auto rate family leaves the 176,4 files at the exact same rate and HQP plays them but I can't hear anything because my DAC does not play at that 176,4 rate.

 

Any idea? This is is the point, with the 96khz setting and auto rate everything is fine but I am loosing the additional resolution of the 176,4 and 192 files per default.

 

Thanks,

 

Chris

Software > Roon Server & HQ Player4 on Windows 2019/AO & MacMini MMK (plus Audirvana 3.5)  > Netgear GS105EV2 > Meicord Opal > Naim NDX 2 > Naim SN2 + Lyngdorf CD-2 + Rega RP8/Aria >  > Harbeth SHL5 plus

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Any idea? This is is the point, with the 96khz setting and auto rate everything is fine but I am loosing the additional resolution of the 176,4 and 192 files per default.

 

If the DAC says it supports 176.4k but goes silent upon receiving data, then it's a bug in the DAC. It really shouldn't claim to support something it doesn't...

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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Miska, appreciate you spend time thinking about my issue, that's all I can ask.

 

Well, your first idea worked fine and I am clearly ending up with Poly-Sinc-short and Gauss1. Only with 44.1 to 88,2 and 176,4 to 88,2 Poly-Sinc standard sounds better than all the others. I have no clue as to why that is but maybe because of the hole you mentioned earlier and that my DAC is actually optimized for 48,96,192. NS4 never sounds better than Gauss1 and to be honest, the shapers do not make much of a difference in my system but the different filters are well hearable.

 

Now to your second idea. Setting 192 and auto rate family leaves the 176,4 files at the exact same rate and HQP plays them but I can't hear anything because my DAC does not play at that 176,4 rate.

 

Any idea? This is is the point, with the 96khz setting and auto rate everything is fine but I am loosing the additional resolution of the 176,4 and 192 files per default.

 

Thanks,

 

Chris

 

Is this your dac?

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Miska, I see, you mean there should be an error message from the DAC, right? Teddy Pardo told me it does not to 176,4 but I now learn it should send some sort of a signal back to the software. And I agree, also Audirvana shows 176,4 as a supported rate but it isn't. I will go back and ask Teddy for advise...

Software > Roon Server & HQ Player4 on Windows 2019/AO & MacMini MMK (plus Audirvana 3.5)  > Netgear GS105EV2 > Meicord Opal > Naim NDX 2 > Naim SN2 + Lyngdorf CD-2 + Rega RP8/Aria >  > Harbeth SHL5 plus

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Yeah, from what I've read that dac will not play 176.4k files. Might as well ask Teddy to be sure though.

 

I am sure because I asked him right when I got the DAC and Audirvana played 176,4 but I could not hear anything. That's why selective up sampling makes sense in my case as Audirvana does.

Software > Roon Server & HQ Player4 on Windows 2019/AO & MacMini MMK (plus Audirvana 3.5)  > Netgear GS105EV2 > Meicord Opal > Naim NDX 2 > Naim SN2 + Lyngdorf CD-2 + Rega RP8/Aria >  > Harbeth SHL5 plus

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Miska, I see, you mean there should be an error message from the DAC, right? Teddy Pardo told me it does not to 176,4 but I now learn it should send some sort of a signal back to the software. And I agree, also Audirvana shows 176,4 as a supported rate but it isn't. I will go back and ask Teddy for advise...

 

When a DAC is connected to computer, it tells what kind of formats it supports. If it says that it supports 176.4k PCM rate but actually doesn't, then it's a bug in the DAC's USB interface firmware. There's no way for software to know when DAC is telling lies...

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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When a DAC is connected to computer, it tells what kind of formats it supports. If it says that it supports 176.4k PCM rate but actually doesn't, then it's a bug in the DAC's USB interface firmware. There's no way for software to know when DAC is telling lies...

 

I hear you. Let's wait what Teddy says...

Software > Roon Server & HQ Player4 on Windows 2019/AO & MacMini MMK (plus Audirvana 3.5)  > Netgear GS105EV2 > Meicord Opal > Naim NDX 2 > Naim SN2 + Lyngdorf CD-2 + Rega RP8/Aria >  > Harbeth SHL5 plus

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