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Schiit Multibit problems with Hi-Rez files????


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I have a Bifrost Multibit and I think it's great with 16/44.1 file but 24/88.1, 24/90 and especially 24/192 not so much. I'm wondering whether it's just my device or whether others are a similar issue.

 

At Redbook resolution, the "Bimby" sounds great: detail, transparency, air, and imaging are great; top high frequencies are maybe a tad "crisp" but that depends on the recording. At the higher resolutions, however, things get weird (in my case): the top highs sound exaggerated with a sheen or glare in a way that's not only different from standard rez but quite unnatural.

 

Is anyone hearing anything like this?

 

My reprod chain is FLAC or ALAC > Foobar2000 via WASAPI > USB > Wyrd > Bifrost Multibit > ARC LS9 preamp > Pass X150.5 > Magneplanar 1.6.

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Have you tried to power cycle your Bifrost. There were a few instances of a glitch on sample rate changes. This was mostly a self healing problem. Weird high frequency sound was one of the symptoms. I mention the power cycling because it should sound fine after that. If it doesn't, them email [email protected]

 

Thanks, worth a try.

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Since MB Bimby resamples hi-res to 16 bit, I'd assume it sounds the same as Redbook if functioning properly.

Yes, I would think this would be the issue. Even the Yggy top of the line unit is only 21-bit, yes? (or do I have that wrong?). If so, then there will be no point in playing high-res files through any Schiit multi-bit DAC, as redbook files will be played at their native resolution, which is likely to sound better than downsampled-on-the-fly high-res files.

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I think those 21-bit refer to S/NR which means the noise-floor is below the audible threshold of humans.

If I'm not mistaken files will be played at native resolution and the (non-existing) information below -126dBFS will be "drowned" in the noise-floor (because even an orchestra playing ƒƒƒ in a very quiet room will not exceed that limit).

 

R

"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira de Pascoaes

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I think those 21-bit refer to S/NR which means the noise-floor is below the audible threshold of humans.

If I'm not mistaken files will be played at native resolution and the (non-existing) information below -126dBFS will be "drowned" in the noise-floor (because even an orchestra playing ƒƒƒ in a very quiet room will not exceed that limit).

Thanks for your reply. Apologies in advance if I am misunderstanding and therefore muddying the waters, but aren't multi-bit ladder DACs limited by how many steps there are in the "ladder"? In other words, if a ladder DAC only has enough transistor pairs for 20-bit digital word, then by definition it can't play high-res files at their native resolution, yes?

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Actually I believe the DAC chips are 21 bit. Higher resolution files are dithered down to 21 bits.

Auralic Aries G2, Ayre QX-5 Twenty, Ayre KX-5 Twenty, Ayre VX-5 Twenty, Revel Ultima Studio2, Iconoclast speaker cables & interconnects, RealTraps acoustic treatments, Sonore opticalModule (X2)

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Actually I believe the DAC chips are 21 bit. Higher resolution files are dithered down to 21 bits.

 

Sorry, 20 bit for Yggy.

Auralic Aries G2, Ayre QX-5 Twenty, Ayre KX-5 Twenty, Ayre VX-5 Twenty, Revel Ultima Studio2, Iconoclast speaker cables & interconnects, RealTraps acoustic treatments, Sonore opticalModule (X2)

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There's virtually no DAC in existence with a noise floor below 20-22 bits. At that point you're into the thermal noise of the electronics. So I wouldn't especially worry about it in the case of Yggy.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> ISO Regen -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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Yest, but 24 bit chips accept 24 bit samples so there is no need for prior bit truncation. Curious if any dither is used in the reduction process to 16 bit.

 

Reduction in the Schiit DACs is *after* the input for the chips/filters:

 

"The megaburrito filter runs at 32 bits -- the input 16 bit signals have zeros added at the input and are all output as original - that is the same 16 bits followed by zeros. The megaburrito filter also does 32 bit computations on the original samples and outputs 7 interpolated samples at 32 bit resolution, rounded to 20 bits (Yggy), and 18 bits (Gumby). For the Bimby, there are the same 32 bit calculations resulting in three interpolated samples at 32 bit original resolution, rounded to 16 bits."

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> ISO Regen -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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Did that work for you?

 

YES! Resetting the Bimby seemed to do the trick. Hi-rez files now sound fine. Thanks again.

 

As for exactly how the Multibit handles 24 bit files, I don't know. Let's remember we've got to distinguish bit depth which pertains to dynamic range, i.e. 16 vs. 24 vs. 32 versus frequency resolution, i.e. 44.1 kHz vs. 88.2 vs. 96, etc. For bit depth the Schiit R2R DACs might simply ignore the higher bit counts; if I'm not mistaken, dithering pertains to down-sampling the frequency resolution.

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YES! Resetting the Bimby seemed to do the trick. Hi-rez files now sound fine. Thanks again.

 

As for exactly how the Multibit handles 24 bit files, I don't know. Let's remember we've got to distinguish bit depth which pertains to dynamic range, i.e. 16 vs. 24 vs. 32 versus frequency resolution, i.e. 44.1 kHz vs. 88.2 vs. 96, etc. For bit depth the Schiit R2R DACs might simply ignore the higher bit counts; if I'm not mistaken, dithering pertains to down-sampling the frequency resolution.

 

Regarding how the Schiit Multibit DACs handle 24-bit signals, the quote I have above in my previous comment is from the DACs' designer, Mike Moffat. What he's saying is that these DACs will handle 24-bit signals just fine.

 

Dithering is for dynamic range changes (e.g., 24 -> 16) rather than sample rate changes (e.g., 176.4 -> 44.1). It adds low-level noise to the signal, which paradoxically makes useful dynamic range better by helping to randomize any noise or distortion.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> ISO Regen -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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Regarding how the Schiit Multibit DACs handle 24-bit signals, the quote I have above in my previous comment is from the DACs' designer, Mike Moffat. What he's saying is that these DACs will handle 24-bit signals just fine.

 

Dithering is for dynamic range changes (e.g., 24 -> 16) rather than sample rate changes (e.g., 176.4 -> 44.1). It adds low-level noise to the signal, which paradoxically makes useful dynamic range better by helping to randomize any noise or distortion.

 

Thank you. That's a great clarification.

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Reduction in the Schiit DACs is *after* the input for the chips/filters:

 

"The megaburrito filter runs at 32 bits -- the input 16 bit signals have zeros added at the input and are all output as original - that is the same 16 bits followed by zeros. The megaburrito filter also does 32 bit computations on the original samples and outputs 7 interpolated samples at 32 bit resolution, rounded to 20 bits (Yggy), and 18 bits (Gumby). For the Bimby, there are the same 32 bit calculations resulting in three interpolated samples at 32 bit original resolution, rounded to 16 bits."

 

Again, thanks. This clarifies the situation a whole lot.

 

I'm loving my Bimby at lot, so much so that I'm seriously considering upgrading to the Gunby at least. I believe I heard that the Bimby only puts only 3 interpolated sample, i.e. upsamples only to 176.4 rather than 352.8.

 

I reiterate my thanks to Tuco1965 for simple reset fix to my problem that started this thread.

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Reduction in the Schiit DACs is *after* the input for the chips/filters:

 

"The megaburrito filter runs at 32 bits -- the input 16 bit signals have zeros added at the input and are all output as original - that is the same 16 bits followed by zeros. The megaburrito filter also does 32 bit computations on the original samples and outputs 7 interpolated samples at 32 bit resolution, rounded to 20 bits (Yggy), and 18 bits (Gumby). For the Bimby, there are the same 32 bit calculations resulting in three interpolated samples at 32 bit original resolution, rounded to 16 bits."

 

This should be a sticky, thanks! I wish this info was on their web site (at least I never saw it), it would certainly save a lot of unnecessary questions.

Auralic Aries G2, Ayre QX-5 Twenty, Ayre KX-5 Twenty, Ayre VX-5 Twenty, Revel Ultima Studio2, Iconoclast speaker cables & interconnects, RealTraps acoustic treatments, Sonore opticalModule (X2)

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Again, thanks. This clarifies the situation a whole lot.

 

I'm loving my Bimby at lot, so much so that I'm seriously considering upgrading to the Gunby at least. I believe I heard that the Bimby only puts only 3 interpolated sample, i.e. upsamples only to 176.4 rather than 352.8.

 

I reiterate my thanks to Tuco1965 for simple reset fix to my problem that started this thread.

 

 

I'm glad it worked for you. Now enjoy some tunes through a great DAC.

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