Metric Halo review

[DanRubin]

When do you think you'll do that comparison, Ted? Although I ordered the adapters, I haven't ordered the ULN-2 yet and have been on the fence about both it and the Weiss DAC2. (I have another Firewire device I can use the adpaters with.) If I can leverage your comparison of the two...

 

 

 

[ted_b]

I didn't want to turn this thread, though, into some kind of shootout. The Metric Halo line (specifically ULN-2 and ULN-8, and their Sonic Studio OEM equivalents) are top notch DACs , and when someone chooses a Weiss, Berkeley or some other reasonably priced ($3-7k) top-notch DAC over them it's likely for personal reasons, including synergy with the system, knowledge and comfort with the dealer, etc. One likely doesn't "blow away" a Metric Halo DAC. So my Weiss comparison is not meant to demean either converter.

 

[DanRubin]

I ordered a ULN-2 to try with my Mac Mini / Amarra Mini. If anyone in the SF Bay Area has a Weiss DAC2 or a Minerva or an Ayre or Wavelength or whatever and is interested in comparing it to the ULN-2, I'd love to do a session.

 

[ciamara]

I think shootouts are a little dangerous if their results are taken as the final word ... I like comparisons, and I like hearing people's views on the differences between the sound of each interface. But they are just that -- comparisons. No matter how rigorous the methodology, someone will find faults in it. That said, if multiple people do similar comparisons with varying methodologies and start to come up with similar conclusions, then perhaps (ignoring the obvious data mining bias), we will get somewhere.

 

[RHA]

Did a search for Valkyrjas... nothing! Could this be a mis-spelling?

Cheers, Rod

 

[bdiament]

Hi Rod,

 

The Valkyrjas have been discontinued and replaced in the Nordost line.

(I believe that is the correct spelling.)

When they were current, they were one step down from their then current top of the line Valhallas.

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

 

[cfmsp]

 

 

"When they were current, they were one step down from their then current top of the line Valhallas."

 

And according to one online comparison, the Valkyrjas had a much flatter freq response on the top end, with the much more expensive Valhallas being rolled off.

 

http://www.10audio.com/nordost_valkyrja.htm

 

Mind you , this was one dog's opinion,

IOW, the 'no one knows you're a dog on the internet' principle might apply here.

 

clay

 

 

 

 

[bdiament]

Hi Clay,

 

I'm not sure I'd agree with the "subjective frequency response" mentioned in the review.

 

I think the Valhallas are more neutral than the Valkyrjas myself, offering a bit more solidity to reproduced images. While I have heard (as been quite impressed by) the Odin cables, I have not tried them in my own system (yet).

 

Just my perspective.

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

[barrows]

Clay,

 

The Nordost line goes from top down like this: Odin-Valhalla-Tyr-Frey-Heimdall-Baldur. Tyr is the replacement for Valkyra, but Frey is actually constructed almost exactly the same as Valkyra was. I think Nordost updated the machinery that makes the cables, and was actually able to reduce the price of Valkyra, so they opted to change the naming structure a little for marketing purposes. I have heard their show demonstrations where Lars goes through the line, upgrading just one interconnect in the system, and for my money the Frey cables were the sweetspot in terms of performance/$ ratio.

The cables get better as one goes higher up the line, but the prices get really astronomical, at least for me. I would recommend that you try the Frey or Tyr, I run Frey balanced interconnects and speaker cables in my system, and this was a big improvement over Kimber Select Series silver cables (which are still very good). The Nordost cables seem to need a fair amount of break in to really show their full performance, I use a cable cooker so one can really tell the difference if you listen to them first, and then give them 24 hours on the cable cooker. If you are trying used cables, I would still recommend giving them at least 24 hours of signal in your system to let them settle in before listening. I am pretty confident in saying that if you try a pair of Frey or Tyr balanced between the ULN2 and the J2 it will be a big upgrade.

BTW, do in part to your and BD's comments here I am considering trying a ULN2, I am interested in your opinion of running it direct into the J2, and the relative transparency of the MH volume control of the line outs (I assume this is digitally implemented at 24 bits in the mixing panel? Or is it a chip based resistor ladder in hardware?)

 

[bdiament]

Hi barrows,

 

The volume control is analog.

Via the console, which uses 80-bit(!) data paths by the way, there is also the option for software volume control. This is digitally controlled but is also an analog volume control.

 

Personally, for those times when I want to adjust quickly, I prefer having a hand operated control (i.e. a knob) as opposed to grabbing the mouse, etc.

 

Haven't had my ULN-2 in a while, since I got the '8. I don't recall if there is a Mute or Dim (-20 dB) button on the '2.

 

I look forward to hearing of your experiences with the '2.

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

 

[RHA]

Thanks for your info and comments. I recently bought the ULN-2 and am going though the set-up / connection phase... haven't had a chance to listen yet. I've recently upgraded phono cartridge, A/D D/A converter (to the ULN-2), and amp as part of my LP to computer project (recorded over 1000 albums last winter). Now I'll probably have to re-record many of my favorites. Darn! Thanks to all for all the info and guidance on this forum. Cheers, Rod

 

[barrows]

I assume a chip based resistor ladder control then-in other words a digitally controlled analog circuit. Some of these chip volume controls are really good-I would expect running the ULN2 (and 8) direct to amplifier to sound very good then as the output impedance does not seem to be any problem on these. I am always looking to simplify my system, even though I do love my Ayre preamp, no preamp has the potential to sound better!

My RME Fireface 400 is really pretty disappointing sonically, either as a Firewire to SPDIF converter or from its analog outs, but it sounds like the MH stuff it performing at an entirely different level.

I wonder when we'll see a new version of the ULN2 with 24/192 capability. Not much music available yet, but I do have some stuff above 24/96, like David Crosby, and the hRx stuff. I have found that downconverting 24/176.4 to 24/88.2 and 24/192 to 24/96 on the fly in Itunes is not all that bad, but would prefer to playback files at native resolutions.

 

[bdiament]

Hi barrows,

 

I would not expect a 24/192 ULN-2 anytime in the foreseeable future.

But then, things might change. Who knows?

 

If you don't mind creating resampled versions of your 4x (176.4k and 192k) files, try iZotope's SRC. It can be had in the $79 Wave Editor program from Audiofile Engineering. This is the first SRC in my experience (and I regularly test them) where a comparison with the unconverted original file does not show the usual hardening and brightening I hear with just about all other sample rate algorithms.

 

I believe it will be the best 24/96 versions from higher sample rate material, for playback via the ULN-2 (or any 96k converter).

 

And I think you'll like using the ULN-2 as volume control too.

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

 

[cfmsp]

 

Barrows, Ted, Barry,

 

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts on cables.

 

[Rantmode: ON]

 

I have a very difficult time understanding why one should pay such exorbitant prices for cables as are being offered. I'm looking at the Nordost Tyr prices on Audiogon, and a USED pair of 1.5m XLRs cost as much as I paid for my brand new ULN-2.

 

I don't get it. There is no way I can justify that in my mind. Even if the cables can offer an increase in performance relative to the investment - which in the case of a ULN-2, they decidedly can NOT, in my opinion - I can not condone this sort of outrageous (to my mind) pricing. Indeed, I would cut off my nose to spite my face if that were required here, so as not to reward what I perceive to be price gouging.

 

WTF?

 

[Rantmode: OFF]

 

So, Barrows, Ted, anyone, how does one justify spending purchase of cables that cost more than not-inexpensive components that they are to be paired with?

 

Please help!

 

Clay

 

PS, I've used Kimber Cables (e.g. 8TC, PBJ) for many years, before switching to Analysis Plus about 3-4 years ago - all used, rarely spending more than $200/pair.

 

PPS, Incidentally, Nelson Pass rather FAMOUSLY recommends NOT to upgrade to audiophile power cords for his amplifiers. I had the recent experience of swapping in the new J2, and later discovering that it sounded better then I took OUT the Analysis Plus cord.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bdiament]

Hi Clay,

 

"Even if the cables can offer an increase in performance relative to the investment - which in the case of a ULN-2, they decidedly can NOT..."

 

I recommend a visit to the Cable Company (www.fatwyre.com).

They rent cables for a two week period - long enough to give a cable ~50 hours of music passing through it before evaluation.

 

With many of the cables I've heard, I would agree with your statement. In my opinion, though, it doesn't apply to the Nordosts... even the less expensive Nordosts.

 

Another nice thing about the Cable Company is, if you decide to purchase from them (I did), they deduct the cost of all your rentals for the past year. (At least that was the policy when I got mine.)

 

If nothing else, I think it is worth it just to hear for yourself what these things can do.

 

Just my perspective.

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

 

[ted_b]

Call Joe there, he's very good. The Furutech cables I recommended are not anywhere near the cost of the ULN-2 (nor even 10% of the ULN-8). They are part of the equation, the signal path. With my Weiss DAC2 I didn't spend $600-700 on a soundcard (Lynx, etc.), but I did on XLR cables. Try them for little rental money......I think you will find them of real value.

 

But at the end of the day, you must weigh all things in your system and decide where the best bang for the buck resides. Me...I've spent big dollars on room treatments (25 of them...I'm the guy sitting in the sofa in the latest Stereophile Realtraps ad) and found that the room is No.1 with me. A close second are the speakers, then amp, then source(s), including pre. However, my cables are right there in the mix. I don't own any huge dolalr cables, but what I own I've picked carefully to match and synergize. And I've used the CableCompany a LOT!

 

[barrows]

it is all relative in a sense. I run Nordost Frey, which definitely is more affordable than Tyr. Check out the Retail price of Odin, or perhaps the top of the line offerings from MIT, Synergistic, or Tara Labs for some (crazy) perspective.

I drive a $7,000.00 used Subaru and ride two $6,000.00 bicycles.

If you do not want to spend the money, I would not recommend auditioning any Nordost cables. I do believe that cables should be considered a component, as the level of influence they have on the sound is significant. I also love the idea of simplifying the system, going direct from a DAC to amp, to reduce the cabling needs, and the degradation they cause (cables can only degrade the signal, the good ones just do less damage). Then one just needs one pair of interconnects and one pair of speaker cables.

As to power cabling, I do believe they matter, as does power conditioning, but paying huge amounts of money for power cabling is not necessary, as good power cables are pretty simple compared to good interconnects (they only have to pass 60 Hz). I have made all my own power cables that perform very well-good terminations (Oiyade) are a little expensive though.

What is justifiable though? To a non-audiophile spending more than a few hundred dollars on speakers would be out of the question, but they might not hesitate to drive $75,000 automobile. A $76,000 dCs stack is out of the question for me, but someone does buy them. I guess only the individual can define what is justifiable for themselves.

 

[labjr]

I don't see a problem with a shootout as long as it's well done. What I don't like is how some magazines and web sites don't make comparisons of products which many feel should be compared. Almost as if they avoid the comparisons of competing products or make statements about system compatibility as the reason why either product might work for you. I've read a lot of reviews where after reading, feel a person reading can interpret it any way they wish. Thus every company has plenty of material to quote in their ads.

 

I'm real happy that Barry has stated his opinion in a way that can't be misconstrued. He works with the equipment everyday, hears the studio masters and does recording so he hears exactly what goes in to the converters and what comes out afterward. I would be more inclined to listen to his recommendation then some magazine and will definitely give Metric Halo an audition before I buy.

 

 

[labjr]

Cables is an interesting part of the system. I've been using Kimber PBJ / 8TC for years. They sound good. I'm almost afraid to try Nordost cables $$$. I'm wondering if anyone in the DIY community has been able successfully make a cable that sounds as good as Nordost?

 

Also, is it generally better to have shorter speakers cables and longer interconnects or vice versa?

 

Thanks,

 

Larry

 

[bdiament]

Hi Larry,

 

Of course, you may not agree with my conclusions. ;-}

But I do call it as I hear it.

 

I do agree that many "professional" writers are a bit quick with their superlatives. I'm thinking of one in particular that basically said other DAC designers might as well hang up their hats. I thought to myself "Man, if this guy ever heard one of the many DACs that wipes the floor with this one, what's he going to say?"

 

Or maybe he'd think a DAC that doesn't add that brightening and hardening of the sound to be "dull" or "lacking in detail". Then again, everyone hears it differently and everyone seeks what they seek from their gear. I like comparing the input with the output. When I find it hard to hear the difference, I feel like I've got something good. When I can't tell the difference, I feel like I've got something unique.

 

But that's also why I say if you ask five audio "experts" a question, you'll get at least six different answers.

(And seven of them are probably wrong.) ;-}

 

Just my perspective.

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

 

[bdiament]

Hi Larry,

 

"...is it generally better to have shorter speakers cables and longer interconnects or vice versa?"

 

I've heard arguments on both sides.

Some say speaker cables do more damage and hence should be kept short.

My feeling (today anyway) is the low level signal in interconnects is more fragile and also more subject to capacitive effects in longer interconnects, so I keep those to 1 meter where I can.

 

(Of course some manufacturers of cables believe in long speaker cables AND long interconnects. ;-})

 

I say try it both ways if you can.

I'm always curious about what folks hear.

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

 

[cfmsp]

 

Thanks Barrows, Ted, Barry, and others.

 

 

Barry says:

"With many of the cables I've heard, I would agree with your statement. In my opinion, though, it doesn't apply to the Nordosts... even the less expensive Nordosts."

 

and therein lies the dilemma, I don't actually want to cut of the proverbial nose - just becuase I don't see the cost justifying the value, as there's no point in not using your other investments to the fullest. OTOH, I don't want to spend that amount of money on a piece of wire.

 

I guess my issue really is - I don't understand why cables should be so expensive compared to the effort and parts that go into say, a ULN-2. As one of you said, cables cannot actually help, they can only degrade. Although since some are used as expensive tone controls, I guess those could be considered a help, but I don't want/need those!

 

 

 

Thanks guys for your responses,

clay

 

 

 

[barrows]

it is hard to understand how cable companies get away with their pricing structures. If you investigate closely, you will see that the manufacturing process used for Nordost's cables is quite unique and intricate. They had to build dedicated machines to produce their cables, and it would be impossible to DIY anything like what they make. OTOH, some of the other cables out there....

I think it is good to consider that every component only really degrades what came before it. From live acoustic music to the mic, to the mic cable, to the mic pre, etc. all the way to our ears at home. I think this must be the way Nelson Pass looks at things, considering how he continues to strive for simplicity and purity in his designs.

 

[labjr]

I was looking on the Nordost website. They're actually about 10-15 miles from here. Maybe I can get them for half price since shipping probably cost about the same as the cables cost to manufacture. It seems people with good technical ideas are good at marketing too.

 

Well is seems like I need Dual Mono Block DACs now. And some psychotherapy too.

 

 

 

[cfmsp]

"I think this must be the way Nelson Pass looks at things, considering how he continues to strive for simplicity and purity in his designs."

 

There's an idea - who's the Nelson Pass equivalent for cable manufacturers?

 

And I don't mean the DIY aspect.

 

Actually this comment may help me understand. I've had this idea for some time that the most simple designs can sound the best, yet with a simpler design comes a resulting increase in the significance of each part (in the component) on the overall quality, and thereby the need for each part to be of increasingly uncompromised quality. As opposed to the homogenized sound (quality) of complex designs.

 

Taken to their extreme, these ideas - along with your earlier comment about every components' goal being to avoid degradation - would suggest that even the parts in a cable should be of utmost quality.

 

Maybe...

 

clay

 

PS: For extra credit - where does the sound available from the chip amps (a la the original Gaincard) fit into your 'discrete FETs sound better' spectrum?

 

It was actual Peter Daniel's descriptions of his creation of the best sounding of the Gainclone amps, that helped me reach the conclusions above.