The Comparison Thread for Recovery USB Reclocker, the Regen and similar devices... (Curated Thread)

[Yucca06]

Tried the Intona alone for a week (very nice, better effects than the Regen alone, and I already was very satisfied with the Regen).

 

Regen added yesterday through hard adapter with the Intona :

 

Customized Hackintosh -> PPA usb Red -> Intona -> hard adapter -> Regen -> Curious Link usb -> Mojo Audio Dac

 

Results are so-so...can't say there's really a big difference (nothing really better). Maybe less sibillances on some tracks, but it looks also "softer". I'm astonished, because the 1st thing I heard after Regen's installation was more clarity/definition.

I don't know if it's the hard adapter or my system. The Regen is powered by a Mojo Audio Joule V LPSU (2nd 9v output)...I ordered a second Curious USB link to put between Intona and Regen to be sure.

 

We'll see...

[lmitche]

Tried the Intona alone for a week (very nice, better effects than the Regen alone, and I already was very satisfied with the Regen).

 

Regen added yesterday through hard adapter with the Intona :

 

Customized Hackintosh -> PPA usb Red -> Intona -> hard adapter -> Regen -> Curious Link usb -> Mojo Audio Dac

 

Results are so-so...can't say there's really a big difference (nothing really better). Maybe less sibillances on some tracks, but it looks also "softer". I'm astonished, because the 1st thing I heard after Regen's installation was more clarity/definition.

I don't know if it's the hard adapter or my system. The Regen is powered by a Mojo Audio Joule V LPSU (2nd 9v output)...I ordered a second Curious USB link to put between Intona and Regen to be sure.

 

We'll see...

 

Try powering the regen with a lithium battery instead of the lps. This preserves the galvanic isolation. I found a five volt model on amazon for $12 that works well.

[Yucca06]

Good idea...but 5v seems to be too low for the Regen ?

9v should do the trick? I wonder how long this kind of stuff can last with the Regen :[QC 2.0 + USB Type-C] Chargeur Portable Batterie Externe 20100mAh RAVPower Turbo+ avec Technologie Qualcomm Quick Charge et Entrée & Sortie USB Type-C: Amazon.fr: High-tech

 

I believe I'd only need an USB to mini jack adapter...

[lmitche]

5 volts works as long as you don't need USB to power the dac side.

[canali]

Is there a count of the number of "USB cleaners" on the market right now and what they do and for how much?

 

(I'm going to purposely exclude the AQ Jitterbug from this list.)

 

UpTone Audio Regen ($175 USD) - Re-clocks

Wyred4Sound Recovery ($199 USD) - Isolates & Re-clocks

Intona USB Isolator ($229-$319 USD) - Isolates

Mutec MC-3+ USB ($1030 USD) - Isolates & Re-clocks (but appears to be overkill for most of us)

 

But I am going to add...

 

The Audiophilleo2 MKII USB>SPDIF converter for $579.

 

 

I will also note that each and every one of the aforementioned naturally only improves with the use of a linear PS as well as high-end USB cables. Adding a linear PS seems to be the answer to everything on this forum...

 

add the iFi iusb 3.0 micro

http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/micro-iusb3-0/

 

and the newly released nano version:

nano – iUSB3.0

 

gets confusing after a while

[JW Audio]

add the iFi iusb 3.0 micro

micro – iUSB3.0

 

and the newly released nano version:

nano – iUSB3.0

 

gets confusing after a while

 

Wow... Fighter Jet noise cancelation technology. Imagine that.

[canali]

Wow... Fighter Jet noise cancelation technology. Imagine that.

i agree: that part sounds silly/childish

[pocarrie]

But has anyone had the chance to compare the iFi iUSB 3.0 (isolation+reclocking in just one product) with Intona (isolator)+WyredRUR (reclocking)? I'm in doubt on which is the best solution... Actually I own iFi iPower + Regen Amber.

[canali]

But has anyone had the chance to compare the iFi iUSB 3.0 (isolation+reclocking in just one product) with Intona (isolator)+WyredRUR (reclocking)? I'm in doubt on which is the best solution... Actually I own iFi iPower + Regen Amber.

 

nope but would be interested to find out...i spoke via email with uptone owner...seems some new more comprehensive products are coming out shortly that will address usb conditioning/audio issues in a number of angles, ie ground issues (galvanic, too?) etc...

 

seems a very interesting and growing market: even Audioquest, at the CES show in Jan, upon their release of the new upcoming Dragonflys, noted usb and signal conditioning to be a market that they're exploring with new products, too.

[Superdad]

But has anyone had the chance to compare the iFi iUSB 3.0 (isolation+reclocking in just one product) with Intona (isolator)+WyredRUR (reclocking)?

 

The iFi iUSB does not perform galvanic isolation.

 

At USB High Speed, currently only the Intona and CoolGear isolators do so.

[canali]

looking forward to Uptone's new products....hope to become a new fan and supporter.

always nice to support the smaller, equally innovative players, too.

 

more and more i'm reading on how ground/galvanic isolation is even more important than is reclocking, jitter etc, esp for those of us who use our laptops as our primary source....and of course i'm no engineer so to forum members: please don't chew my head off.:

 

this from one audio engineer in another forum:

By far the best usb treament is to isolate the ground between the source (eg pc), and the dac.

 

Cleaning power and reclocking are nice, but are an order of magnitude less effective than true isolation, including the ground. The ground is a power supply feed as well.

 

Isolation comes in several forms, galvanic (tranformer based, solutions I've seen tap out at 92 khz), optical (pricey), silicon.

 

In my system in lowered the noise floor (quite audibly), and significantly cleaned up the audio quality. Theyre especially effective if the source is safety grounded (3 prong ac plug)

[One and a half]

looking forward to Uptone's new products....hope to become a new fan and supporter.

always nice to support the smaller, equally innovative players, too.

 

more and more i'm reading on how ground/galvanic isolation is even more important than is reclocking, jitter etc, esp for those of us who use our laptops as our primary source....and of course i'm no engineer so to forum members: please don't chew my head off.:

 

this from one audio engineer in another forum:

By far the best usb treament is to isolate the ground between the source (eg pc), and the dac.

 

Cleaning power and reclocking are nice, but are an order of magnitude less effective than true isolation, including the ground. The ground is a power supply feed as well.

 

Isolation comes in several forms, galvanic (tranformer based, solutions I've seen tap out at 92 khz), optical (pricey), silicon.

 

In my system in lowered the noise floor (quite audibly), and significantly cleaned up the audio quality. Theyre especially effective if the source is safety grounded (3 prong ac plug)

 

That quote is from member DDF from Head-fi. DDF is right, I cannot confirm the transformer based solutions, other than those provided with AES3 transmissions from USB-S/PDIF converters.

 

Galvanic Isolation is important for USB, since it's packet noise is troublesome, at least isolation has this under some control, more or less ignored. The added benefit is there's a separation of damaging common mode noise components, and hum transmissions. Reclocking is a nice touch for USB, depends on the buffering principle used as well.

 

Re-clocking though is important down the chain for S/PDIF (AES3 and coax variants) where ISO standards can be applied to clocked signals to reduce the effects of gross jitter. AES3 is a balanced system has the highest rejection of crud anyway, the coax S/PDIF is at the same mercy of noise as the humble RCA audio interconnect.

 

I've found there's no *one* magic bullet to tame USB, more a combination of several devices and this includes the AC power supply. Gradual or stepped/staged filtering for want of a better method/word which may include 2 or more USB fixers. There needs to be a galvanic isolation device, and some kind of hub/regen/rur is combination that reflects the crud towards the computer rather than the load.

 

Also a consideration of what USB cables to use, depending on where in the chain, even the $4 cables do an outstanding job. Keeping the cables short or use adapters is a good start, sometimes, it's not possible due to other connectors in the way. So long as the total length of USB cabling is no more than 2m, the same approach applied to a standard computer to DAC connection, since high speed USB transmissions for DSD and high PCM rates do suffer from longer cable length and consequential impedance matches. This manifests as clicks, pops, rather nasty signals for tweeters.

[canali]

thanks, one and a half...i didn't wish to just use the thead i'd started elsewhere.

i am appreciative of DDF's imput to me, as i am also for yours.

DDF's further thoughts in an email to me below, expanded on this a bit when i asked what devices to look for, etc:

 

Sorry I couldn't help more with advice on the specific devices. The best one depends on the implementation and the companies aren't really sharing that info. What's important for any specific person also depends on the dac being used. My irdac doesn't use the usb power so if that's dirty it may not be a big deal, but the dirty ground made it sound pretty poor, as it doesn't isolate the input and it uses ground as the reference for every signal. I think the bad ground noise from the pc was causing bit errors and timing problems. IMO, most important for USB audio is first clean ground, then power, then reclocking. If using an asynch dac and a player that supports the dac pulling the data (eg Wasapi event mode), a cleaned up clock shouldn't help much if at all.

 

I was lucky enough that this worked perfectly for me, made a significant improvement in the audio quality for my set up, but my pc uses a 3 prong power cord. If it was 2 prong, this may not have helped much

 

http://www.amazon.com/Olimex-USB-ISO-USB-isolator/dp/B007B2EWBI

 

I'm an electrical engineer that majored in audio design and worked as a professional audio, acoustics, hardware and audio DSP design engineer for about 12 years before moving into fiber optics. Still have fun with audio design as a hobby (building an ncore amp as we speak).

---------------------------------

 

so one and a half question: do you see more comprehensive solutions coming down the line in a cost affordable pkg? this area can be a most confusing one for the average joe with little or new electrical background? we don't want to under spend..nor over spend...or worst of all...misspend the funds in one area when instead they should be going elsewhere. in this technical area it seems like that can easily happen....hence my thread at headfi just wanting some direction/ideas from educated folk (like DDF and yourself have both kindly offered)...many thanks again.

[One and a half]

thanks, one and a half...i didn't wish to just use the thead i'd started elsewhere.

i am appreciative of DDF's imput to me, as i am also for yours.

DDF's further thoughts in an email to me below, expanded on this a bit when i asked what devices to look for, etc:

 

Sorry I couldn't help more with advice on the specific devices. The best one depends on the implementation and the companies aren't really sharing that info. What's important for any specific person also depends on the dac being used. My irdac doesn't use the usb power so if that's dirty it may not be a big deal, but the dirty ground made it sound pretty poor, as it doesn't isolate the input and it uses ground as the reference for every signal. I think the bad ground noise from the pc was causing bit errors and timing problems. IMO, most important for USB audio is first clean ground, then power, then reclocking. If using an asynch dac and a player that supports the dac pulling the data (eg Wasapi event mode), a cleaned up clock shouldn't help much if at all.

 

I was lucky enough that this worked perfectly for me, made a significant improvement in the audio quality for my set up, but my pc uses a 3 prong power cord. If it was 2 prong, this may not have helped much

 

http://www.amazon.com/Olimex-USB-ISO-USB-isolator/dp/B007B2EWBI

 

I'm an electrical engineer that majored in audio design and worked as a professional audio, acoustics, hardware and audio DSP design engineer for about 12 years before moving into fiber optics. Still have fun with audio design as a hobby (building an ncore amp as we speak).

---------------------------------

 

so one and a half question: do you see more comprehensive solutions coming down the line in a cost affordable pkg? this area can be a most confusing one for the average joe with little or new electrical background? we don't want to under spend..nor over spend...or worst of all...misspend the funds in one area when instead they should be going elsewhere. in this technical area it seems like that can easily happen....hence my thread at headfi just wanting some direction/ideas from educated folk (like DDF and yourself have both kindly offered)...many thanks again.

 

The Olimex isolator is good for 12MB/s USB High Speed. Terminology is all important and worth knowing. Hires audio (USB Class 2.0 Audio) runs at 480MB/s. If a high res signal is fed to that device, there's nothing out the other end, just hasn't got the speed throughput.

 

As Superdad mentioned, the Intona, CoolGear as standalone devices provide galvanic isolation at USB Audio Class 2.0 speeds (480MB/s). You can buy USB -> S/PDIF devices that also feature galvanic Isolation, like the Mutec and Berkeley Alpha.

As for making things cheaper, it's limited by economies of scale. The Regen has a good price, but galvanic isolation adds a significant cost to the design, there's no free lunch.

 

 

As for what's coming down the track, crystal ball gazing here, the genie is out of the bottle here as far as controlling USB, and the traditional interface of S/PDIF is still about. Maybe DAC manufacturers may incorporate some of the inroads available externally, although my personal opinion should be to keep USB out of the DAC altogether, it's toxic since it pollutes the internal power supplies of DACs. But the market wants USB, so usually a token effort is made to include USB, using off the shelf designs. Look, a lot of these solutions work, until you isolate the signal, then the shortcomings are very obvious.

[canali]

thanks again, one and a half...then it seems you're only as good as your cables,

as part of the signal path.

hence the curious cables craze.

(and i haven't tried them: i have the ifi gemini and mercury cables

but one person wrote me saying he'd had both and they don't compare

in his system.

 

Next Level USB Audio With UpTone REGEN, Curious Cables | DAR__KO

(interesting comments and ref back to this forum)

 

so i guess alot of this comes down to $$$ experimenting.

[KT77]

As it has been hinted at elsewhere, but not answered........, I'm very curious as to know where the iFi Audio Nano iUSB 3.0 Power might then compare to say the UpTone Audio Regen, as well as said W4S Recovery type units?, talking into account it offers both are-Clocking and Re-Generation in one devices, whereas the latter two seem to specialize in one or the other.

 

It seems there's a great deal going on with said Nano, yet it seems as if no one has actually taken the time to compare the three, as I see their more costly Micro iUSB 3.0 Power as where it ends, yet for these ones around the $200 range, it's harder to know what's what?.

 

Is there a possibility someone can guide me on which of these is the abso!ute?, as I see it.........., some seem to think it's worth it to move over to the Recovery from the Regen, while others seem to remain dedicated to the former and maybe with good reasons, yet time shall provide a clear choice I'd wager within the next 2-4 months.........., I can only say this is one of the most enjoyable experiences I've ever had in voicing my system, and the Regen in tandem with a mere iFi Micro IDSD DAC has in all honesty changed my perspective on what was possible........., I'm loving it.

[speshal]

As it has been hinted at elsewhere, but not answered........, I'm very curious as to know where the iFi Audio Nano iUSB 3.0 Power might then compare to say the UpTone Audio Regen, as well as said W4S Recovery type units?, talking into account it offers both are-Clocking and Re-Generation in one devices, whereas the latter two seem to specialize in one or the other.

 

It seems there's a great deal going on with said Nano, yet it seems as if no one has actually taken the time to compare the three, as I see their more costly Micro iUSB 3.0 Power as where it ends, yet for these ones around the $200 range, it's harder to know what's what?.

 

Is there a possibility someone can guide me on which of these is the abso!ute?, as I see it.........., some seem to think it's worth it to move over to the Recovery from the Regen, while others seem to remain dedicated to the former and maybe with good reasons, yet time shall provide a clear choice I'd wager within the next 2-4 months.........., I can only say this is one of the most enjoyable experiences I've ever had in voicing my system, and the Regen in tandem with a mere iFi Micro IDSD DAC has in all honesty changed my perspective on what was possible........., I'm loving it.

 

I wouldn't sweat the differences between the devices. They are essentially the same thing with minor caveats. If you have a great server and DAC already, then adding these devices will not be "mind-blowing"...so trying to discern the difference in each of these devices will be even less dramatic.

 

I initially compared the Regen to the iFi 3.0 and, even in my most resolving system where I hear differences in tubes and other very minor changes. There wasn't a material difference between them. I'd go with the Regen on price, but the iFi is nicer looking and gives you an extra port to act as a true hub if you need it.

 

Put it this way...your enjoyment of the music isn't going to materially change depending on which of these you choose. You will likely struggle to hear a difference and, even if you do, it may not be confirmable under double-blind comparisons. I also wouldn't rely on other people's opinions either unless their server/DAC/other components mirrors yours.

 

IMO, it would be better to buy one and focus on power supply upgrades for it. This is the area where these devices in stock form can be improved most...albeit at a higher price point subject to diminishing returns.

[KT77]

I wouldn't sweat the differences between the devices. They are essentially the same thing with minor caveats. If you have a great server and DAC already, then adding these devices will not be "mind-blowing"...so trying to discern the difference in each of these devices will be even less dramatic.

 

I initially compared the Regen to the iFi 3.0 and, even in my most resolving system where I hear differences in tubes and other very minor changes. There wasn't a material difference between them. I'd go with the Regen on price, but the iFi is nicer looking and gives you an extra port to act as a true hub if you need it.

 

Put it this way...your enjoyment of the music isn't going to materially change depending on which of these you choose. You will likely struggle to hear a difference and, even if you do, it may not be confirmable under double-blind comparisons. I also wouldn't rely on other people's opinions either unless their server/DAC/other components mirrors yours.

 

IMO, it would be better to buy one and focus on power supply upgrades for it. This is the area where these devices in stock form can be improved most...albeit at a higher price point subject to diminishing returns.

 

Very logical point of view, and one that shall cause me to retain the concept on merely moving laterally from one design to the other, when in fact you're spot on as to looking to improve upon their power supply units, with a better LPS of some sort, styling aside ( in iFi I can add ) it does come down to how we each hear music, which is something as you've stated only those with similar DACs or systems might be able to add solid recommendations on............, once again as it should logic weighs in.

 

Thanks.

[Blake]

I initially compared the Regen to the iFi 3.0 and, even in my most resolving system where I hear differences in tubes and other very minor changes. There wasn't a material difference between them. I'd go with the Regen on price, but the iFi is nicer looking and gives you an extra port to act as a true hub if you need it.

 

...SNIP...

 

I also wouldn't rely on other people's opinions either unless their server/DAC/other components mirrors yours.

 

 

[beerandmusic]

The iFi iUSB does not perform galvanic isolation.

 

At USB High Speed, currently only the Intona and CoolGear isolators do so.

 

A better question would be is there any dacs that are incorporating any of this stuff?

I know the TEAC NT503 has usb isolation and other usb features built in....sure would be nice if they came out with a dac that did all the usb noise crapola...

 

and please don't tell me that can't do it, that they can have one stage feed another in the same chassis.

[jexby]

The iFi iUSB does not perform galvanic isolation.

 

At USB High Speed, currently only the Intona and CoolGear isolators do so.

 

and the Mutec MC-3+USB.

[canali]

I have a feeling this year that we may see more comprehensive products dealing with USB and signal conditioning....will be interesting...its a growing area, to be sure.

[pocarrie]

devices like these (eg Intona + Recovery) can be really useful even in a chain with dual pc (eg hqplayer pc server + naa, or jplay dual pc)? There are positive experiences in this regard? Thanks.

[The Computer Audiophile]

I moved the PS Audio LANRover to a new thread.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/ps-audio-lanrover-28397/

[dapla]

I moved the PS Audio LANRover to a new thread.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/ps-audio-lanrover-28397/

 

Apologies for the misstep. Another learning experience. I will share my stumble with some folks at another site who will have a field day with it lol.