The Comparison Thread for Recovery USB Reclocker, the Regen and similar devices... (Curated Thread)

[holzmann]

As well engineered as they are, neither of the above devices fits in the category of the topic of this thread. They are but two in a sea of USB>S/PDIF converters, and by definition they reclock--including becoming master clock for the DAC--because an S/PDIF signal embeds the clock in the line (which the receiver in the DAC has to then sync to and typically strip away and reclock again--all part of the weakness of S/PDIF AES/EBU interfaces which can be debated elsewhere).

 

Products in the category of the REGEN et al, should have a USB B input and a USB A output.

 

Owning, examining, and listening to most all of the devices in this category, I could discuss technical strengths and weaknesses of each design, but as the manufacturer of the leading one (recently past the 3,000 unit mark) it probably not be ethical of me to do so. I will say this: for those of you with a REGEN and a wandering/wondering eye/ear, you might want to sit tight for another month or so as John Swenson and I do have some significant surprises in the works (and they are far enough along for me to be comfortable hinting at them).

 

Have a great week all.

 

--Alex C.

 

Hi, in my humble opinion, people are looking for a simple, compact, single-product solution that combines galvanic isolation (Intona) with re-clocking for say under $299. Otherwise, Intona probably gets my money soon.

[OldBigEars]

Nicely put

 

Hi, in my humble opinion, people are looking for a simple, compact, single-product solution that combines galvanic isolation (Intona) with re-clocking for say under $299. Otherwise, Intona probably gets my money soon.

[Superdad]

Hi, in my humble opinion, people are looking for a simple, compact, single-product solution that combines galvanic isolation (Intona) with re-clocking for say under $299. Otherwise, Intona probably gets my money soon.

 

Fair enough. Doing our best to make that happen.

[audio.bill]

Fair enough. Doing our best to make that happen.

That's great to hear! Looking forward to further details when you're able to provide them.

[Mitch2]

That's great to hear! Looking forward to further details when you're able to provide them.

Same here. I will hold on to my almost-mailed check to Intona until I hear more. Maybe think about a trade-up program for us Regen owners ;-)

[skatbelt]

As well engineered as they are, neither of the above devices fits in the category of the topic of this thread. They are but two in a sea of USB>S/PDIF converters, and by definition they reclock--including becoming master clock for the DAC--because an S/PDIF signal embeds the clock in the line (which the receiver in the DAC has to then sync to and typically strip away and reclock again--all part of the weakness of S/PDIF AES/EBU interfaces which can be debated elsewhere).

 

Products in the category of the REGEN et al, should have a USB B input and a USB A output.

 

Owning, examining, and listening to most all of the devices in this category, I could discuss technical strengths and weaknesses of each design, but as the manufacturer of the leading one (recently past the 3,000 unit mark) it probably not be ethical of me to do so. I will say this: for those of you with a REGEN and a wandering/wondering eye/ear, you might want to sit tight for another month or so as John Swenson and I do have some significant surprises in the works (and they are far enough along for me to be comfortable hinting at them).

 

Have a great week all.

 

--Alex C.

 

Hi Alex,

 

Nice to meet you here! I think most of us don't mind what kind of techniques are used (isolation, regeneration, reclocking, cascades, etc.) and where it's used (dedicated box, inside the DAC, inside a streamer/renderer etc.) as long as the USB route or alternatively the USB conversion route is becoming as optimal as possible.

 

Looking forward to your new product(s)!

 

Grtz,

Sander

[Mitch2]

I have two pretty good (but different) amplifiers and about 4 pretty good (but different) sets of speaker cables over here.

I want the best sound from my USB source that I can achieve but, as a reality check, swapping out either of the amplifiers or any of the sets of speaker cables results in a change in sound quality that is significantly greater than switching between the Regen and Recovery. While I do hear a difference between the two, we are talking about the nth degree of refinement and not fundamental changes. In fact, I hear a greater difference between the Curious 0.8M and the Totaldac USB cables. However, I remain interested in hearing the Intona or whatever similar solution Uptone Audio concocts.

[TechHiFi]

I dedicated a couple of hours over the weekend to compare the two. The Recovery is slightly better in my system than the Regen. The Recovery sounded richer, more 3D and better bass. Did I say slightly? Yes. I used the stock wall warts and Curious cables. Some of the qualities may be attributed to the Recovery is made by W4S and I have a W4S DAC??? I can unequivocally state that anyone with a USB DAC should give one of these two a listen. It's easily the best improvement I've made to my system based on "bang for your buck". Next time I listen I'm going to compare the Recovery with stock USB cables to my Light Harmonic LightSpeed 10G and I'll bet the Recovery wins!!! Regen for sale.

[YashN]

Fair enough. Doing our best to make that happen.

 

Is the USB->Ethernet bridge device +target device going to be in the works again soon?

[Superdad]

Is the USB->Ethernet bridge device +target device going to be in the works again soon?

 

Hey, I thought this was a "curated" thread and that off-topic questions were strictly verboten.

 

But no, our big USB>Ethernet Audio Bridge for OEMs (UEABO) project has been on hold for the past six months while John has been working on the Sonore microRendu and the complex UpTone mystery 3.3/5/7V 1-amp LPS (the core of which is a platform for many future applications and likely OEM licensing). Plus we are close to releasing another surprise (listening to pre-production now) that will very much be "on-topic" to this thread.

 

Would love to come back to the UEABO soon as none of the Ethernet DAC solutions that have appeared (save the microRendu though that is still USB into the DAC) are nearly as elegant and universally compatible as what we were proposing. But busting apart the USB protocol to put Ethernet in the middle takes time, though the XMOS chips John is using are certainly able to simultaneously handle both USB and Ethernet (that's the heart of the computer "dongle" side of UEABO). When/if we do turn back to it, much has been learned in the past year that might find its way into the solution as well. But again, this is meant as an Ethernet input board for DAC manufacturers. No point to doing it as a USB-output product. We want the I2S to be inside the DAC to run from the DAC master clock.

[YashN]

Hey, I thought this was a "curated" thread and that off-topic questions were strictly verboten.

 

OMG, I must have lost my self away from the non curated thread! No worries, I've read and memorised your response before we get deleted.

 

Thanks a lot, sound good and makes total sense for further integration of technologies rather than chaining devices.

 

Regards.

[qqqfunny]

It took some time to read the threads. After that, can I understand that Intona >RUR >REGEN?

[qqqfunny]

It took some time to read the threads. After that, can I understand that Intona >RUR >REGEN?

In my setup,Intona sounds great! At the beginning , I ever wanna try the RUR. But after reading this thread, I gave up to use the RUR or the combo of RUR and Intona.

[Superdad]

It took some time to read the threads. After that, can I understand that Intona >RUR >REGEN?

 

Like the Audioquest Jitterbeg, the W4S Recovery (RUR) puts a common-mode choke (actually two of them) on the data lines. So if you like the sound of the Jitterbug, you might prefer the RUR over the REGEN.

 

Beyond that, the RUR uses the same hub chip as the REGEN, but uses far noisier voltage regulators; and for some unexplained reason uses a switching regulator circuit for the 5VBUS.

 

Horses for courses as they say...

[OldBigEars]

That's quite a dig at your main competitor, especially as many people on this site have stated that the AQJB has minimal positive affect on their system. So you are "barbing with faint praise" as you surely realize. I think we should probably leave it a neutral end-user to comment on the technology used by W4S, and its ensuing sound quality.

 

BTW, I'm intrigued by the upcoming arrival of your new product. I'm sure you wouldn't really appreciate W4S people using this site to comment on your technology or sound quality? Just saying'...

 

Like the Audioquest Jitterbeg, the W4S Recovery (RUR) puts a common-mode choke (actually two of them) on the data lines. So if you like the sound of the Jitterbug, you might prefer the RUR over the REGEN.

 

Beyond that, the RUR uses the same hub chip as the REGEN, but uses far noisier voltage regulators; and for some unexplained reason uses a switching regulator circuit for the 5VBUS.

 

Horses for courses as they say...

[Superdad]

I think we should probably leave it a neutral end-user to comment on the technology used by W4S, and its ensuing sound quality.

 

You are undoubtedly correct, and I wish to apologize to the group. Such is not my style at all and I regret not restraining myself from making the post. It was a reaction to the generalization the fellow made about there being a consensus that the Intona is best and the REGEN last. These are each different devices, using different methods, functioning in different ways, and having listened to them all (in as unbiased a way as I could), I really do not think a one-size-fits all conclusion is possible.

 

Again, my apologies…

 

--Alex C.

[speshal]

Personally, I liked the input from Alex as long as all the technical specifics he mentioned are true (which I trust they are). He's clear about his affiliation with Uptone, so you can discount any subjective comments as you see fit.

 

BTW, there is no such thing as a truly "neutral" end user. People always have biases whether they know it or not. If you spent any time in the hobby, it's virtually impossible NOT to have at least subliminal bias for certain brands/designers.

 

For example, I'm never going to give any stock to an opinion by someone who has Synergistic Research equipment in their system, but I'm not going to tell them not to post their opinion. I just ignore it.

 

W4S is free to respond to Alex's comment and that would only ADD value to the thread. If not, anyone who thinks it's biased and not factual commentary can just ignore it. All these "forum police" need to go.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[OldBigEars]

Sure, I guess you're right. Let's have every manufacturer piling in and inundating the site with their insights and pitches. It would be quite entertaining up to a point.....let the best man win :-)

 

 

 

 

Personally, I liked the input from Alex as long as all the technical specifics he mentioned are true (which I trust they are). He's clear about his affiliation with Uptone, so you can discount any subjective comments as you see fit.

 

BTW, there is no such thing as a truly "neutral" end user. People always have biases whether they know it or not. If you spent any time in the hobby, it's virtually impossible NOT to have at least subliminal bias for certain brands/designers.

 

For example, I'm never going to give any stock to an opinion by someone who has Synergistic Research equipment in their system, but I'm not going to tell them not to post their opinion. I just ignore it.

 

W4S is free to respond to Alex's comment and that would only ADD value to the thread. If not, anyone who thinks it's biased and not factual commentary can just ignore it. All these "forum police" need to go.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

There are so many discussions about USB and all these devices, it is really hard to keep up and find valuable information. It would be nice to have the possibility to go back and edit the first post of threads with a summary of the different reviews, technical aspects, etc...

 

Information gets lost within the posts. When someone just posts a statement such as the one that initiated Alex's response, people may just see that and miss out on all the rest.

 

On a side note: I am considering moving away alltogether from USB. What started out as a simple and low cost way of playing music is turning into a really complicated and expensive affair, with devices being piled one onto the other (as witnessed in this thread).

 

The microRendu promises to simplify things, but at the asking price, it is a no-go for me.

 

I am finding the Chromecast Audio to offer really good SQ and felxibility, and simplicity - not to mention the fact that it is super cheap ! And for that, I am willing to sacrifice a little SQ...

[Forehaven]

+1. So many avenues to a non-ideal USB setup. If this product does as advertised though, I find the price reasonable.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

+1. So many avenues to a non-ideal USB setup. If this product does as advertised though, I find the price reasonable.

 

Yes, discussion about the price is not really interesting, as we each have our budget. Back to USB !

[beerandmusic]

since it was said that they serve different purposes, I am curious would any of the 3 devices (Intona,RUR,REGEN( offer more than the other (or needed at all) for a new technology dac i am supposed to get in mail tomorrow (teac ud-503). It says it already has usb isolation...and would it matter if i used the 10mhz clock or not?

 

---=-=-=--=

 

Between the digital and analog sections, the circuit design uses a digital isolator to completely isolate both the power supply and the ground. So, all noise coming from digital input sources, starting with noise from the computer via USB, is prevented from entering the analog section by way of the power line or the ground.

 

 

Two dedicated internal clocks running at 44.1kHz and 48kHz are built in. By applying clock from an audio grade high-precision crystal oscillator, which features low phase noise, to input signals which that sampling frequency are whole number multiples, the effect of jitter on audio quality can be largely suppressed and the audio source can be reproduced faithfully.

 

-=-=-=-=-=-=

 

 

In addition, with support for 10MHz external master clock input, synchronization with master clock signals of even higher precision is possible. By synchronizing with clock that has an even higher precision, you can enjoy changes in tone quality and improved audio quality that can be felt physically.

 

=-=-=-=-=--=-=-

VERITA AK4490 DACs support 11.2MHz DSD and 384kHz/32-bit PCM

Starting with the toroidal core power transformers, which feature the ability to supply stable current, and the high-performance VERITA AK4490 DACs, the dual-monaural structure has a complete mono circuit for each channel. This prevents the signals from interfering with each other as much as possible.

[AlainGr]

Hi Beerandmusic,

 

Unless I did not read correctly, the effect of acting on the noise BEFORE entering the dac is beneficial. Noise from the PC will affect the dac clocks way before accessing the analog part of the dac...

 

But like I said, I may have read the features incorrectly...

 

Edit: I use the Intona high speed USB isolator and it really cleans the signal before accessing the dac.

 

Regards,

[beerandmusic]

Hi Beerandmusic,

 

Unless I did not read correctly, the effect of acting on the noise BEFORE entering the dac is beneficial. Noise from the PC will affect the dac clocks way before accessing the analog part of the dac...

 

But like I said, I may have read the features incorrectly...

 

Edit: I use the Intona high speed USB isolator and it really cleans the signal before accessing the dac.

 

Regards,

 

it may just be marketing, but this says it prevents ALL noise leaving the usb from entering the analog section of the dac...e.g. if the noise is isolated before the analog output...that anded with the 2 clocks, sounds pretty bullet proof?

 

-======

So, all noise coming from digital input sources, starting with noise from the computer via USB, is prevented from entering the analog section by way of the power line or the ground.

[odelay]

I'm pondering a similar question.

 

I'm not sure if my DAC (Burson Conductor - mk I) needs the ground leg; but it mos'def doesn't need the power leg from the USB cable.

 

I did find benefits using OSX optimisations and the Regen. But have not tried the myriad of other devices that claim to do more on the power isolation side of things. I do wonder if that's a big part of the benefits over the Regen for many. Too many variables in this biz [emoji52]