Olive 4HD Just Died, Need New Network Player To Work With My NAS - Best Option $1,200.00 Or Less?

[TubeLover]

As the title says, my Olive 4HD has finally given up the ghost and cannot be resurrected. And I'm not sure I would truly wish to, at this point, given current technology. Granted, losing the access to the huge number of cd's I had on it's drive is painful, to say the least. Oh well, this will only, I suppose, spur me to move even faster in ripping things to my first ever NAS.

 

My primary system, in another part of the house, has an Aurender player, but I can't afford to expend that much of my finances for the system in my den/office. Granted, it is still a system of quite high quality, and is used two to three hours each night, so a network player that will provide equally high quality sound is important, "if" it can be found for $1,200.00 or under, new or used. I would prefer a unit that would allow for Tidal playback also.

 

Any recommendations, expertise or assistance would be immensely appreciated. I've had to borrow my SACD player from the main system and listening (and finding) individual CD's is getting very old fast!

 

One additional comment, I was leaning strongly towards the Marantz NA8005, as I like the build quality Marantz deliversd, and especially, their DAC's. There have, however, been a few too many stories of it being problematic, having an app that crashes, etc for my comfort, and it does not support Tidal, to my knowledge, otherwise I would jump on one were it not for these issues.

 

JC

[ringenesherre]

Try to pick up a rebated / preowned / refurbished Naim ND5 XS. Superb sound quality and Naim is very serious about supporting Tidal.

[alubis]

How about this https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/cx/cxn

[Cebolla]

One additional comment, I was leaning strongly towards the Marantz NA8005, as I like the build quality Marantz deliversd, and especially, their DAC's. There have, however, been a few too many stories of it being problematic, having an app that crashes, etc for my comfort, and it does not support Tidal, to my knowledge, otherwise I would jump on one were it not for these issues.

Not sure why so many people focus on a UPnP supporting renderer's provided controller app for reliability & ease of use when network streaming audio files. There's nothing stopping you using a decent third party UPnP controller instead. Some also include built-in support for TIDAL & Qobuz streaming services, such as:

BubbleUPnP (Android)

BubbleDS Next (Android)

Linn Kazoo (iOS, OS X & Windows)

LUMÏN (iOS)

 

The Linn Kazoo, LUMÏN & BubbleDS Next apps are OpenHome (aka UPnP with Linn extensions) controllers, so cannot normally be used with standard UPnP/DLNA supporting streamers, such as the Marantz NA8005. However, you can resolve this issue by also using the BubbleUPnP Server helper application (not to be confused with the BubbleUPnP Android app), which can be configured to provide OpenHome emulation for any standard UPnP streamer on the network:

http://www.bubblesoftapps.com/bubbleupnpserver/#media_renderers_configuration

The BubbleUPnP Server should ideally be installed on the same device that runs the UPnP/DLNA media server, normally a networked computer or a NAS.

 

BTW, the BubbleUPnP Android app supports both standard UPnP and OpenHome streamers, so does not need to be used with the BubbleUPnP Server if controlling the Marantz.

[rn701]

Regarding your music collection stranded in the device, can you remove the hard drive and mount it in a temporary USB enclosure to recover the files?

[TubeLover]

Regarding your music collection stranded in the device, can you remove the hard drive and mount it in a temporary USB enclosure to recover the files?

 

Unfortunately, Olive used a proprietary encoding, so it cannot be recovered.

 

JC

[TubeLover]

I should also point out that within the $1200.00 budget, the network player must include a good internal DAC. Thats one of the reasons the Marantz appealed to me so much, as I know it has a wonderful DAC. Supposedly an upgrade to the very nice DAC in my SA8005 CD/SACD player.

 

JC

[jiminlogansquare]

Ugh. As a one-time Olive owner (had two, one of which was a lemon and the other of which scratched all my CDs), I feel your pain. Especially with the closed system, proprietary encoding. Thousands of wasted dollars. Lesson learned the hard way. Enjoy your liberation from Olive.

[MikeJazz]

Ugh. As a one-time Olive owner (had two, one of which was a lemon and the other of which scratched all my CDs), I feel your pain. Especially with the closed system, proprietary encoding. Thousands of wasted dollars. Lesson learned the hard way. Enjoy your liberation from Olive.

Closed system...like is mqa...on a different level I know...

Something similar when my LaCie fell on th ground and I lost contents... Lesson to be learned storage not in your player...

[TubeLover]

Closed system...like is mqa...on a different level I know...

Something similar when my LaCie fell on th ground and I lost contents... Lesson to be learned storage not in your player...

 

Agreed. I've been working on the tedious task of ripping everything to the new NAS. Just need to find the right network player/streamer, and quickly.

 

JC

[TubeLover]

How about this https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/cx/cxn

 

Looks interesting, and Cambridge equipment offers great value, but apparently no support for Tidal

 

JC

[MikeJazz]

Agreed. I've been working on the tedious task of ripping everything to the new NAS. Just need to find the right network player/streamer, and quickly.

 

JC

 

For the flexibility it gives you about different control apps, I would try one of the solutions by sonore.

I am very curious about the new product, microrendu.

[Cebolla]

Looks interesting, and Cambridge equipment offers great value, but apparently no support for Tidal

 

JC

The Cambridge Audio devices all use standard UPnP network file streaming, so no direct support of TIDAL shouldn't be an issue, eg, if you use the BubbleUPnP Server application to indirectly provide TIDAL via OpenHome emulation for the standard UPnP network audio player and an appropriate OpenHome controller app, as I mentioned earlier.

 

Incidentally, since you are considering some UPnP/DLNA streamers, you should also be thinking about which UPnP/DLNA media server software to use with them. The UPnP media server provides the media library, built from the music file tags/metadata, whose music category folder structure the UPnP controller apps use to present to the user. The UPnP media server therefore has a direct impact on user's music browsing & searching experience. For example the built-in UPnP AV media server provided by some NASs can often be unsuitable for music file use, being more geared towards video, even buggy.

 

Hence, the tendency for many UPnP network audio player users to choose a more music friendly UPnP media server to use with their device, such as the audio file dedicated MinimServer:

MinimServer

These specialised UPnP media servers can't be installed on all NASs, so the choice of UPnP media server will often dictate the choice of NAS. Unfortunately, this point is moot as you already have a new NAS. Hopefully it will be one able to run a decent UPnP media server such as MinimServer (and also the BubbleUPnP Server helper application for OpenHome emulation & TIDAL support should the network audio player you eventually choose require it).

[Cebolla]

For the flexibility it gives you about different control apps, I would try one of the solutions by sonore.

I am very curious about the new product, microrendu.

Indeed and that flexiblity extends to it also supporting standard UPnP emulated as OpenHome, via the BubbleUPnP Server helper application, in one of its modes of operation and therefore being able to use the microRendu with OpenHome control point apps. Credit of use of the BubbleUPnP Server mentioned on the Sonore's microRendu web page:

SONORE microRendu

[master]

These specialised UPnP media servers can't be installed on all NASs, so the choice of UPnP media server will often dictate the choice of NAS.

 

A simple workaround is to add the $35 Raspberry Pi and install MinimServer on it.

[EuroChamp]

Unfortunately, Olive used a proprietary encoding, so it cannot be recovered.

 

JC

 

I do not want to bet, but for 99% I think they use any kind of Linux file system. By default, Windows can not read the partition. Maybe OSX can? ... and Linux of course.

[mordante]

A second hand Lumin D1?

[Cebolla]

These specialised UPnP media servers can't be installed on all NASs, so the choice of UPnP media server will often dictate the choice of NAS.

A simple workaround is to add the $35 Raspberry Pi and install MinimServer on it.

Yep, or better still also add a USB drive, with a copy of all the audio files, to connect to the Raspberry Pi itself and use the Pi as a 'NAS' for audio. This would avoid the extra throughput on the network by the Raspberry Pi having to access the audio files from the NAS's networked shared folders, plus it would allow MinimServer to perform faster housekeeping of the media library's database with the audio files being accessed locally. Could then just use the NAS as the music files' backup device.

[DuckToller]

Hi Tubelover,

You might like to have a look at Teac's new Networkplayer/DAC/HA NT503 -> http://www.teac.com/product/nt-503/

 

Does Olive have still the Linux based firmware they were using with older models on the 4HD? If yes, it might be possible to save your content via Disksync?

Tom

[master]

Yep, or better still also add a USB drive, with a copy of all the audio files, to connect to the Raspberry Pi itself and use the Pi as a 'NAS' for audio. This would avoid the extra throughput on the network by the Raspberry Pi having to access the audio files from the NAS's networked shared folders, plus it would allow MinimServer to perform faster housekeeping of the media library's database with the audio files being accessed locally. Could then just use the NAS as the music files' backup device.

 

That works too, I have done that in the past as well. Even better if the external HDD is powered or with a powered USB hub.

 

The NAS makes more sense for redundancy, streaming more content like photographs, videos, etc. and I also got sold on ethernet being a better option than plain old USB.

 

Can't hear a difference though…

[TubeLover]

Hi Tubelover,

You might like to have a look at Teac's new Networkplayer/DAC/HA NT503 -> NT-503 | TEAC

 

Tom

 

Thanks for the suggestion, Tom. Initially, it looked interesting, but when advertised equally as a "headphone amp", it concerned me that some corners might be cut as a streamer. Sadly, it appears there are concerns about many facets of this. Here is a commentary by someone on Head-Fi (Music-Man) that I know to have a lot of expertise in this area, and who was asked to look at it:

 

" had this on my bench today. it is not the quality construction f the ud-501. first5000 recalled? unacceptable. you can see why in the shoddy typical Walmart china quality of sloppy construction. I would say this is fair game for $500 not $1,000+. I am being harsh because this is a disappointment. as expected the sq of my highly modded ud-501 is much better even at 2x dsd. I am trying to figure out a way to get 4 or 8x dsd into mine but it is not that easy and not really necessary. I would still like to play with it. in much better dacs I hear a big difference between 2x and 4-8x. it looks like I will have to rework a lot of this thing to get what I want. at this point I think I am just sticking with it the way it is and my better dacs too. I am telling you guys unless you are just bent on having this, it is not worth over a grand us. the workmanship is deplorable this time. this is a shame. stock, the ud-501 looked like it might as well say esoteric on the plate. I have not kept up on this game and not really sure what competes but I was not impressed by this. the sq is good perhaps a little better than the ud-501 as a dac. if this is your head amp yes it is better. the problem lies in the construction. having already recalled the first 5k units I foresee immanent failure of these things. stock they sound worth a grand but simply put together much too sloppily. I would steer clear of this I am sorry tor report. you know I rarely post here anymore but I was asked to test this and was really disappointed what I discovered under the hood. just pure slop. I even see cold solder joints. just bad workmanship regardless of sound. you can't doubt me on this. look at it. I am sorry to be the bearer of this news. I just have no idea what came over them to do something like this. they are known for quality. I was really expecting this to be a game changer again. there was also a greater noise floor balanced than the ud-501. most likely directly relating to the construction not the chosen components. oh well. I will say the feet are nice!"

 

JC

[TubeLover]

A second hand Lumin D1?

 

Excellent idea, but they are a new enough product that it may be some time before they appear for resale, and unfortunately, I need a solution very quickly.

 

JC

[TubeLover]

The Cambridge Audio devices all use standard UPnP network file streaming, so no direct support of TIDAL shouldn't be an issue, eg, if you use the BubbleUPnP Server application to indirectly provide TIDAL via OpenHome emulation for the standard UPnP network audio player and an appropriate OpenHome controller app, as I mentioned earlier.

 

Incidentally, since you are considering some UPnP/DLNA streamers, you should also be thinking about which UPnP/DLNA media server software to use with them. The UPnP media server provides the media library, built from the music file tags/metadata, whose music category folder structure the UPnP controller apps use to present to the user. The UPnP media server therefore has a direct impact on user's music browsing & searching experience. For example the built-in UPnP AV media server provided by some NASs can often be unsuitable for music file use, being more geared towards video, even buggy.

 

Hence, the tendency for many UPnP network audio player users to choose a more music friendly UPnP media server to use with their device, such as the audio file dedicated MinimServer:

MinimServer

These specialised UPnP media servers can't be installed on all NASs, so the choice of UPnP media server will often dictate the choice of NAS. Unfortunately, this point is moot as you already have a new NAS. Hopefully it will be one able to run a decent UPnP media server such as MinimServer (and also the BubbleUPnP Server helper application for OpenHome emulation & TIDAL support should the network audio player you eventually choose require it).

 

Thanks very much for taking the time to explain all of that Cebolla, but, unfortunately, what you are discussing goes far beyond my understanding. My NAS is a Synology DS-713+. I really am looking for a network player/streamer that is as simple to implement as my Aurender was, it just identified the NAS and I had it working in ten minutes.

 

On the plus side, Minimserver is already installed on my NAS (thanks to a most helpful guru here on CA. This originally happened when my initial plan was to purchase a Sonore Signature Rendu. I've never had to use it and remain lost as to how it would work, if needed.

 

JC

[firedog]

Unfortunately, Olive used a proprietary encoding, so it cannot be recovered.

 

JC

 

There must be a way to hack it and extract the files to another disc. Decent chance some web sleuthing will turn up a method.

[DuckToller]

Thanks for the suggestion, Tom. Initially, it looked interesting, but when advertised equally as a "headphone amp", it concerned me that some corners might be cut as a streamer. Sadly, it appears there are concerns about many facets of this. Here is a commentary by someone on Head-Fi (Music-Man) that I know to have a lot of expertise in this area, and who was asked to look at it:

...

JC

 

G'morning JC,

I understand what you mean. But I have to disagree on the display of that Music-Man review as sole source for decision making on the NT-503.

 

I am lurking on the NT-503 since I have read the early announcements in May for the UD and October last year for the NT. I had read the HeadFi-Thread as well. It is just more about the DAC/Head-Amp UD-503 itself than the NT-503 Networkplayer/DAC. And I was seriously shocked about that cited review. I was ready to cancel my interest in that product directly.

But, stop, wait, he even did not listen to the DAC ...

The described quality issues sound very serious, but for me it is not really obvious if the reviewer (in November 2015) has specified, if he had got a pre production model, an already refurbished model or a model from an updated production line in his hands? Having a seriously bad review on an already recalled product is not really prime journalism in my point of view.

I may be with you to have a preferences for other products, but you may re-consider ruling out the TEAC just on that "bad" review, even the reviewer is a honored member of the other forum.

 

The NT-503 is the networkplayer, who is based on the same DAC / HA with output board modifications, but having a networking module included. I haven't found too much information on the networkplayer yet, the reviews in the specialized press are just coming in since mid January, but by what I have seen, they look quite promising in the tenor that the NT-503 is punching way above his price range.

 

And yes for the price level you were looking for, a trade-off on some sort might be necessary. In this case it imight be the assumed quality issue and having an additional CLASS-A head amp for having a fully equiped Streamer/DAC with DSD256, and even HI-RES over ethernet capabilities below 1500 USD. To archive a pricetag like that, doubtless a well engineered industrial production is needed, which TEAC in that case obviously hadn't from the start on. Therefore TEAC had to initiate the recall of the first 5000 units (if g-trans gave me the correct translation from Japanese sources, it was a minor output board flaw), which for me seems to be a huge blow on margin for them with that product. That might have also been the reason, why, after first teasers since may 2015, the product did only arrive in the market just sparsely until 2016, not really to be noticed in 2015, neither physically in European shops nor virtually in reviews.

 

Nevertheless, I have noticed that the TEAC is - contrary to Europe - still not available everywhere in the US, at least Amazon does only list the DAC, not the NT-503.

 

And even if I sound like a TEAC fanboy, I do not have any affiliations with them. The only TEAC item in my possession is an old IDE HDD from 2004, as far as I remember.

I am just amazed by the plenthora of options that product offers for a reasonable price tag. I have not seen it or tested it by myself. And the starting base for my sympahthy had been all the rave reviews of the UD-501 DAC in this forum.

Kind regards, Tom

 

edit: I really like your Christmas Story, especially the Herzog part ;-) You are a gifted writer, it seems.