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Sonicorbiter - Native DSD support


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@vortecjr

 

With the Stellar Dac I've found something interesting.

 

If I reboot the Ultrarendu and then play a Direct DSD 1st thing, the clock in the DAC diagnostics is wrong at 192000. Also, the music is mistimed and sounds a little jacked up.

 

If i play a DSD with DoP, or a PCM file first after reboot, then play Direct DSD, the clock is always correct at 176398 (DSD128).

 

Have you seen this before?

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3 hours ago, Cxp said:

@vortecjr

 

With the Stellar Dac I've found something interesting.

 

If I reboot the Ultrarendu and then play a Direct DSD 1st thing, the clock in the DAC diagnostics is wrong at 192000. Also, the music is mistimed and sounds a little jacked up.

 

If i play a DSD with DoP, or a PCM file first after reboot, then play Direct DSD, the clock is always correct at 176398 (DSD128).

 

Have you seen this before?

 

According to the specs for your DAC, USB only supports DoP.

 

Only the I2S input supports "DSD Direct". Unless their page is wrong?

 

1639260579_ScreenShot2018-11-17at5_55_31pm.thumb.png.07f10585a17a934b78584d0928d0dbbf.png

 

1029717532_ScreenShot2018-11-17at5_56_55pm.thumb.png.4ae1c9e0d077b6b13a6ef2bd90c593e2.png

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@Em2016

 

Despite the specs, the sonic orbiter diagnostics, detects a Direct DSD path to the DAC.

 

Direct DSD does work. Interestingly even DSD 256 works. Keep in mind when I send over DSD 256, which is above the spec, it only goes in over Direct DSD. Whether I click or unclick Direct DSD in sonic orbiter, DSD 256 always goes in as Altset 3 which is the "Special DSD" path which is Direct DSD. This is not the case with DSD 128, when Direct DSD is selected, it uses Altset 3, while unselected, it goes in Altset 1.

 

This is suggesting that the sonicorbiter has auto-detected the Stellar Dac USB system correctly as it refused to send DSD 256 DoP which would require bandwidth of DSD 512 which is certainly above the spec of the ESS 9010 chip. However, the chip is spec'd to DSD 256.

 

Keep in mind Jesus confirmed on page 1 that the Nuwave DSD was compatible with Direct DSD 256 which is almost the same DAC and also above its spec sheet input.

 

Regardless I may end up getting a Ultradigital anyway in the end as I've heard good things about its use with PS Audio DACs.

 

 

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12 hours ago, Cxp said:

@vortecjr

 

With the Stellar Dac I've found something interesting.

 

If I reboot the Ultrarendu and then play a Direct DSD 1st thing, the clock in the DAC diagnostics is wrong at 192000. Also, the music is mistimed and sounds a little jacked up.

 

If i play a DSD with DoP, or a PCM file first after reboot, then play Direct DSD, the clock is always correct at 176398 (DSD128).

 

Have you seen this before?

Never.

 

Can you post the complete output of Apps / DAC Diagnostics?

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39 minutes ago, Cxp said:

@Em2016

 

Despite the specs, the sonic orbiter diagnostics, detects a Direct DSD path to the DAC.

 

Direct DSD does work. Interestingly even DSD 256 works. Keep in mind when I send over DSD 256, which is above the spec, it only goes in over Direct DSD. Whether I click or unclick Direct DSD in sonic orbiter, DSD 256 always goes in as Altset 3 which is the "Special DSD" path which is Direct DSD. This is not the case with DSD 128, when Direct DSD is selected, it uses Altset 3, while unselected, it goes in Altset 1.

 

This is suggesting that the sonicorbiter has auto-detected the Stellar Dac USB system correctly as it refused to send DSD 256 DoP which would require bandwidth of DSD 512 which is certainly above the spec of the ESS 9010 chip. However, the chip is spec'd to DSD 256.

 

Keep in mind Jesus confirmed on page 1 that the Nuwave DSD was compatible with Direct DSD 256 which is almost the same DAC and also above its spec sheet input.

 

Regardless I may end up getting a Ultradigital anyway in the end as I've heard good things about its use with PS Audio DACs.

 

 

For native DSD256 the DAC needs to support PCM up to 352.8 which this device supports.

For DSD256 via DoP the DAC would need to support PCM up to 705.6 which this device doesn't supports. So you are limited to DSD128 via DoP.

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20 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

Never.

 

Can you post the complete output of Apps / DAC Diagnostics?

Here you go

 

PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC at usb-ci_hdrc.1-1.1, high speed : USB Audio

Playback:
  Status: Running
    Interface = 1
    Altset = 3
    Packet Size = 272
    Momentary freq = 192001 Hz (0x18.0008)
    Feedback Format = 16.16
  Interface 1
    Altset 1
    Format: S32_LE
    Channels: 2
    Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)
    Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000
    Data packet interval: 125 us
  Interface 1
    Altset 2
    Format: S16_LE
    Channels: 2
    Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)
    Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000
    Data packet interval: 125 us
  Interface 1
    Altset 3
    Format: SPECIAL DSD_U32_BE
    Channels: 2
    Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)
    Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000
    Data packet interval: 125 us
access: RW_INTERLEAVED
format: DSD_U32_BE
subformat: STD
channels: 2
rate: 176400 (176400/1)
period_size: 22050
buffer_size: 88200
Simple mixer control 'Stellar Gain Cell DAC',0
  Capabilities: pvolume pswitch
  Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Limits: Playback 0 - 127
  Mono:
  Front Left: Playback 127 [100%] [0.00dB] [on]
  Front Right: Playback 127 [100%] [0.00dB] [on]
Simple mixer control 'Stellar Gain Cell DAC',1
  Capabilities: pvolume pvolume-joined pswitch pswitch-joined
  Playback channels: Mono
  Limits: Playback 0 - 127
  Mono: Playback 127 [100%] [0.00dB] [on]
Simple mixer control 'XMOS Internal Clock Validity',0
  Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined
  Playback channels: Mono
  Mono: Playback [on]
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@vortecjr

 

I stopped, played one pcm  for 5 seconds, stopped, then turned DSD128 back on in A+.

 

PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC at usb-ci_hdrc.1-1.1, high speed : USB Audio

Playback:
  Status: Running
    Interface = 1
    Altset = 3
    Packet Size = 272
    Momentary freq = 176398 Hz (0x16.0cc0)
    Feedback Format = 16.16
  Interface 1
    Altset 1
    Format: S32_LE
    Channels: 2
    Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)
    Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000
    Data packet interval: 125 us
  Interface 1
    Altset 2
    Format: S16_LE
    Channels: 2
    Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)
    Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000
    Data packet interval: 125 us
  Interface 1
    Altset 3
    Format: SPECIAL DSD_U32_BE
    Channels: 2
    Endpoint: 1 OUT (ASYNC)
    Rates: 44100, 48000, 88200, 96000, 176400, 192000, 352800, 384000
    Data packet interval: 125 us
access: RW_INTERLEAVED
format: DSD_U32_BE
subformat: STD
channels: 2
rate: 176400 (176400/1)
period_size: 22050
buffer_size: 88200
Simple mixer control 'Stellar Gain Cell DAC',0
  Capabilities: pvolume pswitch
  Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right
  Limits: Playback 0 - 127
  Mono:
  Front Left: Playback 127 [100%] [0.00dB] [on]
  Front Right: Playback 127 [100%] [0.00dB] [on]
Simple mixer control 'Stellar Gain Cell DAC',1
  Capabilities: pvolume pvolume-joined pswitch pswitch-joined
  Playback channels: Mono
  Limits: Playback 0 - 127
  Mono: Playback 127 [100%] [0.00dB] [on]
Simple mixer control 'XMOS Internal Clock Validity',0
  Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined
  Playback channels: Mono
  Mono: Playback [on]
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18 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

You missed the information above this:)

Is it limited to DoP or is Direct DSD compatible at DSD 128? Is Direct DSD kind of working but not working correctly?

 

The above clocking thing is happening with DSD 128. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Cxp said:

Is it limited to DoP or is Direct DSD compatible at DSD 128? Is Direct DSD kind of working but not working correctly?

 

 

I need the information you are missing to look something up.

DAC description:

 

It's likely a bug in the USB firmware.

 

rule of thumb

DSD64 via DoP needs PCM 176.4

DSD128 via DoP needs PCM 352.8

DSD256 via DoP needs PCM 705.6

DSD512 via DoP needs PCM 1411.2 

 

native DSD64 needs PCM 88.2

native DSD128 needs PCM 176.4

native DSD256 needs PCM 352.8

native DSD512 needs PCM 705.6

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44 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

Everything on my end looks okay to support it....

Thanks for checking into it.

 

The 192000 thing is probably a glitch then? Doesn’t really matter practically since it occurs only after reboot. 

 

 

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  • 5 months later...

Hello,

 

I have the ultraRendu and a McIntosh d1100 DAC.  DSD works fine over DoP, but the McIntosh is supposed to support native DSD up to DSD256.  I have not been successful getting that to work. 

 

Is it compatible?  I've been looking around this thread for the list of supported DACs but I can't seem to find it

 

Thanks

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1 hour ago, joey_corleone said:

Hello,

 

I have the ultraRendu and a McIntosh d1100 DAC.  DSD works fine over DoP, but the McIntosh is supposed to support native DSD up to DSD256.  I have not been successful getting that to work. 

 

Is it compatible?  I've been looking around this thread for the list of supported DACs but I can't seem to find it

 

Thanks

The ultraRendu uses a Linux-based OS so the DAC would need to accept native DSD from Linux-based device.

Eric


Ubuntu Studio Linux box (i7-9700, 8 cores, 16GB RAM, Intel X520-DA1 NIC, Roon, HQP) > fiber optic > MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+ > fiber optic > opticalRendu (HQP NAA) > Holo Cyan (DSD version) > Nord One UP NC500MB mono blocks > Klipsch La Scala — digital volume control with HQP via Roon client, DSP with HQP convolution engine

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5 hours ago, joey_corleone said:

Hello,

 

I have the ultraRendu and a McIntosh d1100 DAC.  DSD works fine over DoP, but the McIntosh is supposed to support native DSD up to DSD256.  I have not been successful getting that to work. 

 

Is it compatible?  I've been looking around this thread for the list of supported DACs but I can't seem to find it

 

Thanks

Can you post the output of Apps / DAC Diagnostics for that device?

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2 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

My guess is that it could support up to DSD64 and DSD128 via DoP.

 

Yes, DSD64 and DSD128 work fine with DoP. I was just wondering if it would be possible to do native DSD and along with that, DSD256, natively.

 

Using Roon BTW.

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27 minutes ago, joey_corleone said:

 

Yes, DSD64 and DSD128 work fine with DoP. I was just wondering if it would be possible to do native DSD and along with that, DSD256, natively.

 

Using Roon BTW.

It’s doesn’t appear to support it on Linux.

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21 hours ago, joey_corleone said:

 

Yes, DSD64 and DSD128 work fine with DoP. I was just wondering if it would be possible to do native DSD and along with that, DSD256, natively.

 

Using Roon BTW.

 

What are you using for your Roon Server?

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  • 8 months later...
On 5/15/2016 at 9:33 AM, vortecjr said:

 

It's anyones guess if they will cooperate. Tell them you would like the DAC to support the DSD_U32_BE sample format.

Hi vortecjr,

 

I am using an Antipodes server which I understand uses the same sonicorbiter package you have for Sonore. I’ve been trying to get Native DSD up and running on my Ayre QB—9 Twenty which is capable of Native DSD 256, and have been in dialogue with both Ayre and Antipodes to accomplish this. Is the sample format you noted on this post “DSD_U32_BE” still the appropriate one I would want to ask Ayre for my DAC to support, in order for the automatic Native DSD detection to work?

 

Thanks!

Des

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9 hours ago, desbiss said:

Hi vortecjr,

 

I am using an Antipodes server which I understand uses the same sonicorbiter package you have for Sonore. I’ve been trying to get Native DSD up and running on my Ayre QB—9 Twenty which is capable of Native DSD 256, and have been in dialogue with both Ayre and Antipodes to accomplish this. Is the sample format you noted on this post “DSD_U32_BE” still the appropriate one I would want to ask Ayre for my DAC to support, in order for the automatic Native DSD detection to work?

 

Thanks!

Des

All the development for Sonic Orbiter based servers and renderers are done by team Sonore and SGC and licensed to several companies in various forms from there. Adding native DSD support to the Ayre QB-9 Twenty is being done with the help of people like Chris, Jussi, and team Ayre. We have the code for adding native DSD support, but we are in the middle of some other updates and testing is pending. As of now we do not have a solution ready for the Antipodes series and it’s to soon to say when it will roll out. When it’s ready how it will be made available to you will be a question for Antipodes. 

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