Running Win OS purely in RAM

[lmitche]

Don't forget about iSCSI boot which essentially does the same thing, and may be easier.

 

+1 Iscsi is likely easier to configure and the OS fits in a single 4gb stick of dram.

[manisandher]

Can you please explain how you setup this Run from RAM thing with OS? Specifically if you use a Linux distro or even with Windows, as that would also be of benefit to a lot of us. Which software do you use, etc?

 

Hi pipis, I'm using an HDD supplied to me by PeterSt at Phasure. There is no way I'm technically competent to achieve this myself.

 

However one goes about achieving running the OS from RAM, for me the most important thing is that the OS hard drive can be removed from the PC and the audio files totally loaded into RAM before music playback begins. If this is not achievable, then all bets are off. The whole purpose of doing this is to have the absolute minimum of devices drawing on the mobo during audio playback as possible.

 

If customized commercial offerings such as Aurender do this, then all's good...

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

randytsuch's audio page: Running Windows from RAM

 

Hope this helps you guys.

 

Wow. Thanks Randy. If I hadn't already obtained a HDD from PeterSt I might have been inclined to try this. As I just wrote, the important thing is that the OS HDD can be removed and all the audio files loaded into RAM before playback.

 

Mani.

[randytsuch]

There are directions here

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/diskless-windows-10-pc-setup-procedure-27363/

to boot to RAM using iSCSI.

 

I didn't try it because I don't have a separate server PC to use to load my audio PC.

If you do have two pc's, then the iSCSI method looks relatively easy to try.

 

Mani

Thanks for the kind words.

 

Also, you can use my method to boot up a linux OS. You would need to make a VHD in linux (I have no idea how to do this). And then you would need to change the configuration file for NeoGrub to startup a linux OS. There are instructions out there on how to do this with grub/grub4dos, and those instructions should work with NeoGrub.

 

Randy

[jabbr]

There are directions here

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/diskless-windows-10-pc-setup-procedure-27363/

to boot to RAM using iSCSI.

 

I didn't try it because I don't have a separate server PC to use to load my audio PC.

If you do have two pc's, then the iSCSI method looks relatively easy to try.

 

 

Without a server/NAS you either live with a very small music library that fits in RAM, or seriously hassle with loading/unloading music from your drive. Your NAS can likely serve as your iSCSI server.

[randytsuch]

Without a server/NAS you either live with a very small music library that fits in RAM, or seriously hassle with loading/unloading music from your drive. Your NAS can likely serve as your iSCSI server.

 

Right now I have another SSD that holds my music files. I'm going to try putting it on an isolated usb interface at some point, and see what that does.

 

I've been avoiding adding another PC to my music setup, don't want to spend the money and time.

 

And for me, I don't see an advantage in adding iSCSI. I can boot fine into ram with a VHD file now, using the method from my writeup. Since I have a working method, I'm not going to change it without a good reason. If I was starting from scratch, and had two PC's, I would probably try the iSCSI method.

 

Randy

[jabbr]

Right now I have another SSD that holds my music files. I'm going to try putting it on an isolated usb interface at some point, and see what that does.

 

I've been avoiding adding another PC to my music setup, don't want to spend the money and time.

 

And for me, I don't see an advantage in adding iSCSI. I can boot fine into ram with a VHD file now, using the method from my writeup. Since I have a working method, I'm not going to change it without a good reason. If I was starting from scratch, and had two PC's, I would probably try the iSCSI method.

 

Randy

 

Yeah, since you are using an SSD anyways there's no point in trying to go disk less with iSCSI.

[randytsuch]

Yeah, since you are using an SSD anyways there's no point in trying to go disk less with iSCSI.

 

I think you missed my point.

 

I can already eliminate my OS SSD using the procedure I already have working. I can already load Server 2012 into Ram, and run it out of ram.

I think iSCSI would just do the same thing, let me eliminate the OS SSD, and run Server out of Ram.

 

As for the music SSD, I will either isolate it, or do some other experiments to see if there is gain by eliminating it. In the end, maybe a NAS will be the answer, but like I said, I'm trying to avoid a NAS for now.

 

Randy

[lmitche]

You could use any other PC or laptop, setup a shared folder for your music, remove the music SSD from the player PC and hear what it sounds like without local storage by connecting to the shared drive for music.

 

You really don't want to pay the premium for a branded NAS machine, any PC will do. You could build one for about $150 as well. Run Windows or Linux (free)and your done. Both will support your very cool ramdisk AudioPc boot process and Iscsi if you prefer.

[Jud]

You could use any other PC or laptop, setup a shared folder for your music, remove the music SSD from the player PC and hear what it sounds like without local storage by connecting to the shared drive for music.

 

You really don't want to pay the premium for a branded NAS machine, any PC will do. You could build one for about $150 as well. Run Windows or Linux (free)and your done. Both will support your very cool ramdisk AudioPc boot process and Iscsi if you prefer.

 

FreeBSD/FreeNAS works as well, if you're more familiar with that flavor of Unix(ish) OS.

[CR250]

If anyone wants to try running a Linux distro from RAM, its fairly easy to do. Some distros have that option built in. There's more, but I know PCLinuxOS has this feature. All you need to do is download the OS with whatever DE your prefer, burn it to a DVD and reboot. When the option screen comes up, just pick the one that loads the OS to ram. I think ExTix and Sabayon can also be run from ram, but I could be mistaken.

[randytsuch]

You could use any other PC or laptop, setup a shared folder for your music, remove the music SSD from the player PC and hear what it sounds like without local storage by connecting to the shared drive for music.

 

You really don't want to pay the premium for a branded NAS machine, any PC will do. You could build one for about $150 as well. Run Windows or Linux (free)and your done. Both will support your very cool ramdisk AudioPc boot process and Iscsi if you prefer.

 

Thanks. Yeah, I know I can make a NAS with a PC and software, and honestly I have a bunch of spare parts around, so it probably wouldn't cost me much to make a NAS.

 

For now, I have an old macbook I can turn into a NAS, to try out the concept, and see how it sounds compared to a music SSD. Come to think of it, I think I can connect a usb drive to my router, and use that as a NAS. So its on my list of things to do

 

Last night I started trying to make a bootable usb stick, it takes a while to copy a 12g file to a usb stick though

It didn't boot because of the same winload problem I ran into when I was booting my vhd file.

It should be easy to fix, I think I just need to copy a new bootmgr file to my stick.

So with any luck, I'll have a usb stick that boots a vhd into ram soon.

 

Randy

[PeterSt]

Last night I started trying to make a bootable usb stick, it takes a while to copy a 12g file to a usb stick though

It didn't boot because of the same winload problem I ran into when I was booting my vhd file.

It should be easy to fix, I think I just need to copy a new bootmgr file to my stick.

So with any luck, I'll have a usb stick that boots a vhd into ram soon.

 

Randy, that could be a waste of time. My method (with an as long description ) can do that by standard, but the loading into RAM takes 20 minutes. A fast SSD does that in 90 seconds or so (hdd 2 minutes) (should be the same with you).

Btw, this is not the usb stick being slow (not at all) but say the USB protocol which makes it so slow. So booting from an USB connected hdd is as slow.

 

But all these things are nice to get working, once you have a first result (it is a total pain otherwise).

 

Peter

[PeterSt]

Maybe to indicate what's achievable :

 

You have a music server elsewhere (a NAS, another PC) and the software running on the Audio PC (the one running from RAM) pre-loads the music to play. This means nothing more than copying it to its OS disk, which is now RAM (and which is completely transparent for you).

 

Once copied, the LAN connection is cut and playback can begin for as long as music fitted into memory (hence what your playlist implied). In my case (XXHighEnd) this is 3GB of free memory (out of the total of 16GB) and including all the caches and proxies and upsampling to 32/705600 this means 3-4 Redbook CD's.

Side note : this 3GB is indeed free internal memory, which is different from free "disk space" (which now also is memory) which is 4GB.

 

This is all completely transparent. So after the music selection (software in the Audio PC selects from Music Server) and loading the playlist, you press play and 2-3 seconds later music plays without LAN connection - all 100% from RAM (OS disk was removed days ago).

Press Stop and LAN is brought up and music from the music server is available again.

 

Actually you don't notice a thing of it all. Of course the development took a lot of time and already to let the user create new boot entries etc. in a second or 10 (see earlier screenshot of the Boot Menu) took a couple of 100 of hours on my side to program.

 

Peter

[randytsuch]

Randy, that could be a waste of time. My method (with an as long description ) can do that by standard, but the loading into RAM takes 20 minutes. A fast SSD does that in 90 seconds or so (hdd 2 minutes) (should be the same with you).

Btw, this is not the usb stick being slow (not at all) but say the USB protocol which makes it so slow. So booting from an USB connected hdd is as slow.

 

But all these things are nice to get working, once you have a first result (it is a total pain otherwise).

 

Peter

 

Peter

I already worked on this last weekend.

I found using with a usb 2.0 stick it was much too slow, but for running out of the stick, and for loading into RAM. With a usb 3.0 stick, it was much better.

 

It was a little slower than an ssd (in my pc), but it was usable. At home, if you have the default to boot from a stick into ram, and you turn on your pc and come back a few minutes later, its no big deal.

 

And it really was just a little slower with the usb 3 stick, maybe adds a couple minutes to the boot up time.

 

But I guess I have a slow ssd, I didn't time it, but it takes longer the 90 seconds to load, in fact it's longer than 2 minutes. I have a 12gb vhd file I'm loading and am using the sata2 ports.

 

Making the bootable USB stick was pretty easy using easyBCD. That's the advantage I have, I am doing this for personal use, so I can download and use utilities I find on the net. Using easyBCD has made the process much easier for me.

 

Randy

[bodiebill]

randytsuch's audio page: Running Windows from RAM

 

Hope this helps you guys.

 

Great post Randy, thanks! I plan to try t out soon after upgrading my RAM to low-voltage 16GB ECC unbuffered.

 

Just one question:

My audio PC currently runs Server 2012, and I did install EasyBCD under this OS, on this PC as well on my control PC.

So I am surprised that in your post you say that EasyBCD will NOT run on Server 2012. Or do you mean some essential functionality is missing when EasyBCD runs on Server 2012?

 

Thanks & cheers!

[bodiebill]

+1 Iscsi is likely easier to configure and the OS fits in a single 4gb stick of dram.

However, I think the iSCSI method does not work with every NIC as it requires an iSCSI compatible NIC, is that correct? Which I am afraid I do not have :-|

[lmitche]

No, there is no need for an ISCSI compatible NIC. The NIC has to support an IPXE boot rom and most do.

[bodiebill]

No, there is no need for an ISCSI compatible NIC. The NIC has to support an IPXE boot rom and most do.

 

Thanks, Imitche, I just found a PXE option in the bios and enabled it, so there is hope...

[randytsuch]

Great post Randy, thanks! I plan to try t out soon after upgrading my RAM to low-voltage 16GB ECC unbuffered.

 

Just one question:

My audio PC currently runs Server 2012, and I did install EasyBCD under this OS, on this PC as well on my control PC.

So I am surprised that in your post you say that EasyBCD will NOT run on Server 2012. Or do you mean some essential functionality is missing when EasyBCD runs on Server 2012?

 

Thanks & cheers!

 

I did this a while ago now, but what I remember is I installed easybcd in server 2012r2, and it would not run. Works fine when I run in windows 7. That's with the free version of easybcd. Maybe they added this to easybcd, or maybe it just didn't work on my pc. Since I have windows 7 too, it didn't matter to me.

 

Randy

[bodiebill]

I did this a while ago now, but what I remember is I installed easybcd in server 2012r2, and it would not run. Works fine when I run in windows 7. That's with the free version of easybcd. Maybe they added this to easybcd, or maybe it just didn't work on my pc. Since I have windows 7 too, it didn't matter to me.

 

Randy

 

Thanks Randy. From the easyBCD site: "Windows Server 2012 uses the new BOOTMGR/BCD bootloader, and is fully-supported by EasyBCD." See https://neosmart.net/wiki/easybcd/dual-boot/bcd-based/server-2012/

 

However, I think I will first try the PXE route as this may be possible with my current 8Gb RAM. If not successful I will try your method with added RAM...

[shpongle]

hi

 

here is another Version of Windows in ram:

 

with this step by step guide you create a 10gb server

2012r2core VHD that you can boot in ram.(OS is 4.5gb,rest is for music files load in ram)

　

with this version you can use hqplayer,bughead,foobar,Aplayer,Jriver and others in core mode

kernelstreaming and asio are working.

　

in this setup we don't use usb-stick for bootfiles,everything is written to ssd!

　

the audio-pc must have 16gb ram

 

shpongle

server2012r2core in ram.pdf

[shpongle]

hi

 

there is a mistake in the guide, here is the corrected Version !

 

sorry

server2012r2core in ram corrected version.pdf

[PeterSt]

To those who obtained the RAM-OS Disk via CA :

 

We now have W10 14393.0 available as an update to the Disk (this update is free). The procedure is simple :

 

Drop an email to sales phasure com;

Receive a download link and download the OS (3.3GB);

Copy it to the disk per available instructions on phasure.com;

Add it to the boot menu within 10 seconds;

Boot from it (BASE or RAM).

 

Now you have two new OSes and the sound is completely different again.

With XXHighEnd license both can be Minimized for Audio (boot into MinOS - done).

 

Peter

[TioFrancotirador]

Guys, I know the benefits of running system entirely from RAM with noisy SATA turned off. I did it with Ubuntu loaded into RAM. I could not do it with windows since I got only 8gb RAM.

However does any compared system from RAM and from M.2? - M.2 supposed to connect to CPU directly, so SATA could be turned off.

So does running system from RAM still betters than from M.2 with SATA turned off? Maybe there is no difference or is just minimal in this case.