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Sonore microRendu


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... if you are running a sigma-delta DAC with native DSD. If you are using a native PCM DAC that converts DSD to PCM first, I doubt the DSD conversion helps, and it might hurt.

 

Which DACs internally convert DSD to PCM, then convert it back with sigma-delta modulation?

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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Which DACs internally convert DSD to PCM, then convert it back with sigma-delta modulation?

 

He was referring to DACs that convert DSD to PCM because they are R2R ladder DACs. BTW the PS Audio DS converters native DSD to DoP (which is PCM) and then re-samples it back to some very high DSD rate.

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Hi, you should leave out the ";". It's used only as separator if you want to transcode the samplerate:

flac:wav24, alac:wav24, aac:wav24, mp4:wav24, mp3:wav24, *:wav24;,

 

This is my Minimserver stream.transcode setting: aac:wav;96, alac:wav;96, mp4:wav;96, mp3:wav;96, flac:wav;96

I'm transcoding all to 96Hz because my dac doesn't like samplerate changes. I don't use wav24 because the ds112 NAS doesn't seem to be able to cope with that.

Hi, thanks for this . Doesn't the semi colon (without a number afterwards) mean the bitrate will not be changed?

 

Also , just for my understanding you are transcoding all music to 16-bit/96khz?

 

Thank you!

 

Sent from my Blackberry DTEK50 using Tapatalk

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Having the microrendu decode audio files is really not an issue.

 

Having the microrendu decode audio files is really not an issue.

Hi, yep understood. Just observed that most don't have the unit doing the decoding - more tend to have the NAS or a PC - which makes sense since they have more powerful CPU's of course. I would do test to hear for myself but just wanted to understand people's reasons - guessing that everyone has tried to let the unit do the decoding. thanks again

 

Sent from my Blackberry DTEK50 using Tapatalk

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He was referring to DACs that convert DSD to PCM because they are R2R ladder DACs.

 

Right, though I was under the impression the conversion to PCM in that case had to be done by external software prior to input to the DAC.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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Hi, yep understood. Just observed that most don't have the unit doing the decoding - more tend to have the NAS or a PC - which makes sense since they have more powerful CPU's of course. I would do test to hear for myself but just wanted to understand people's reasons - guessing that everyone has tried to let the unit do the decoding. thanks again

 

Sent from my Blackberry DTEK50 using Tapatalk

 

People are doing everything from A to Z across all the output modes. The posts here are just a fraction of the feedback:)

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People are doing everything from A to Z across all the output modes. The posts here are just a fraction of the feedback:)

Absolutely - agreed. Not everyone enjoying the microrendu is on forums

 

Is there a way in minimserver to have input=output, just convert into wav but keep both bit-depth and sample rate identical for input=output?

 

So no upsampling. Just to test out. I do note that a few people have commented positively on the improvement with upsampling

 

thanks again

 

 

Sent from my Blackberry DTEK50 using Tapatalk

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Absolutely - agreed. Not everyone enjoying the microrendu is on forums

 

Is there a way in minimserver to have input=output, just convert into wav but keep both bit-depth and sample rate identical for input=output?

 

So no upsampling. Just to test out. I do note that a few people have commented positively on the improvement with upsampling

 

thanks again

 

 

Sent from my Blackberry DTEK50 using Tapatalk

 

It will do that. However, the results, either way, could be due to the DAC and not necessarily the microRendu.

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Is there a way in minimserver to have input=output, just convert into wav but keep both bit-depth and sample rate identical for input=output?

 

So no upsampling. Just to test out. I do note that a few people have commented positively on the improvement with upsampling

 

minimserver already gives you what you want. By default, minimserver preserves the source bit-depth and sample rate when transcoding. See minimstreamer manual under "transcoding". For example, "flac:wav" will transcode flac 16/44.1 to wav 16/44.1, flac 24/96 to wav 24/96, and so on.

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minimserver already gives you what you want. By default, minimserver preserves the source bit-depth and sample rate when transcoding. See minimstreamer manual under "transcoding". For example, "flac:wav" will transcode flac 16/44.1 to wav 16/44.1, flac 24/96 to wav 24/96, and so on.

 

Hi Andre, thanks for that

 

But for an alac file, if I want a 24/192 alac to be transcoded to 24/192 wav and a 16/48 alac to be transcoded to a 16/48 wav , so with no upsampling, then alac:wav is all I need?

 

No need to use the upsampling alac:wav24; then?

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Hi Andre, thanks for that

 

But for an alac file, if I want a 24/192 alac to be transcoded to 24/192 wav and a 16/48 alac to be transcoded to a 16/48 wav , so with no upsampling, then alac:wav is all I need?

 

No need to use the upsampling alac:wav24; then?

I do not personnaly use alac files. However, under "alac" input transcoding, the manual says:

"Apple Lossless (ALAC) files. Valid for local files served by MinimServer (.mp4 and .m4a) only. The output type must be L16, L24, wav, wav24 or wav16. A stream converter program is required."

 

So the answer to your question should be "yes" and "alac:wav" should be all you need.

Stream converter program section of the manual explains how to set the converter program.

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I do not personnaly use alac files. However, under "alac" input transcoding, the manual says:

"Apple Lossless (ALAC) files. Valid for local files served by MinimServer (.mp4 and .m4a) only. The output type must be L16, L24, wav, wav24 or wav16. A stream converter program is required."

 

So the answer to your question should be "yes" and "alac:wav" should be all you need.

Stream converter program section of the manual explains how to set the converter program.

 

Hi, yep the stream converter ffmpeg was already there in minimserver/minimstream

 

I just tested a 24/192 alac and it works on my Denon receiver via DLNA playback from minimserver. The denon tells me the file format and sample rate of the stream

 

I wish I could go back in time and only have FLACS and not ALAC rips of my CDs

 

I guess I could manually convert directly from ALAC to FLAC using XLD on Mac - in theory both are lossless, so converting backwards and forwards again shouldn't change anything (in theory of course). In the meantime if minimserver does this conversion it's a life saver for me - looks to be working well

 

So with the microRendu I can test and compare the following for myself

 

1. microRendu doing all the work in DLNA mode

2. minimserver doing all the work in DLNA mode but input=output

3. minimserver doing all the work in DLNA mode but upscaling all files to 24-bit wav and native sampling rate

4. minimserver doing all the work in DLNA mode but upscaling all files to 24/192 wav (upsampling all music)

5. Roon mode trial, with Roon running directly off the Qnap 251+

 

Depending on my system (Peachtree 220se's DAC), option 1 might be all I actually need anyway

 

Thanks again for the help and guidance

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I highly recommend using the minimstreamer streamer options to enable libsoxr if you are doing minimstreamer upsampling. The string used to accomplish this was on the older CA posts I referred to above. You also need a libsoxr version of ffmpeg. They exists for Windows and Linux. You can find both by googling around the official minimserver blog.

 

Libsoxr definitely takes sq to a new level and is worth the time spent to get it installed on the Qnap.

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

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I highly recommend using the minimstreamer streamer options to enable libsoxr if you are doing minimstreamer upsampling. The string used to accomplish this was on the older CA posts I referred to above. You also need a libsoxr version of ffmpeg. They exists for Windows and Linux. You can find both by googling around the official minimserver blog.

 

Libsoxr definitely takes sq to a new level and is worth the time spent to get it installed on the Qnap.

 

Thanks mate - I will add this to minimserver on the Qnap.

 

Has anyone installed Kazoo Server on the Qnap and controlled playback on the microrendu via the Kazoo app? They have an app for the Qnap: https://www.linn.co.uk/software

 

Cheers

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I guess I could manually convert directly from ALAC to FLAC using XLD on Mac - in theory both are lossless, so converting backwards and forwards again shouldn't change anything (in theory of course). In the meantime if minimserver does this conversion it's a life saver for me - looks to be working well

 

So with the microRendu I can test and compare the following for myself

 

1. microRendu doing all the work in DLNA mode

2. minimserver doing all the work in DLNA mode but input=output

3. minimserver doing all the work in DLNA mode but upscaling all files to 24-bit wav and native sampling rate

4. minimserver doing all the work in DLNA mode but upscaling all files to 24/192 wav (upsampling all music)

5. Roon mode trial, with Roon running directly off the Qnap 251+

 

Depending on my system (Peachtree 220se's DAC), option 1 might be all I actually need anyway

For me, using minimserver with mrendu connected to a Simaudio Moon 780D, your option 1 represents the best choice. minimserver streams the original track data untouched, and mrendu takes care of the rest. I did experiment a lot with your other options, but quite honestly, I could never say for sure that they had any significant and easily reproducible impact on sound quality.

 

However, still to be honest, I learned from all the heated debates that surround those questions that the system in use, especially the type and quality of the DAC and the quality of its USB interface has very much to do with how you perceive the end results. What you get on one system with a given transcoding or upsampling setting may not apply equally to a different system.

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For me, using minimserver with mrendu connected to a Simaudio Moon 780D, your option 1 represents the best choice. minimserver streams the original track data untouched, and mrendu takes care of the rest. I did experiment a lot with your other options, but quite honestly, I could never say for sure that they had any significant and easily reproducible impact on sound quality.

 

However, still to be honest, I learned from all the heated debates that surround those questions that the system in use, especially the type and quality of the DAC and the quality of its USB interface has very much to do with how you perceive the end results. What you get on one system with a given transcoding or upsampling setting may not apply equally to a different system.

 

Very true. I want to keep an open mind before I start testing all these options but I already think letting the microRendu do all the work will be what I settle for (not really an open mind is it? :-) )

 

But I understand the reasoning in letting a computer or NAS do the heavy lifting, so I will definitely try it.

 

How exactly are you controlling your music playback on microrendu in DLNA output mode? Did you need to install Bubbleupnp server on your PC/NAS to be able to control via an ios/Android device?

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How exactly are you controlling your music playback on microrendu in DLNA output mode? Did you need to install Bubbleupnp server on your PC/NAS to be able to control via an ios/Android device?

 

I use BubbleUPnP on android as the control point. I sometimes use Lumin/Kinsky on IOS, but do not find them as complete and useable as Bubble. I used to run BubbleUPnP Server on an external PC (the same running minimserver), but do not use it much anymore.

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I use BubbleUPnP on android as the control point. I sometimes use Lumin/Kinsky on IOS, but do not find them as complete and useable as Bubble. I used to run BubbleUPnP Server on an external PC (the same running minimserver), but do not use it much anymore.

 

Thanks André. So like me, your music is also on a NAS? In order to control playback on the microRendu from BubbleUPnP on Android, do you need to install BubbleUPnP Server on the NAS also?

 

Thanks again

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I'm using Synology DiskStation as my DLNA server and Kazoo as the controller and I have no issue streaming ALAC at 24/192.

 

I still am not clear if the microRendu itself is having any issues decoding 24/192 ALAC natively?

 

Not that it's a problem , since I can use minimserver on the Qnap to do this decoding , but just out of interest, is it decoding 24/192 alac files without issues?

 

Thanks again

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Thanks André. So like me, your music is also on a NAS? In order to control playback on the microRendu from BubbleUPnP on Android, do you need to install BubbleUPnP Server on the NAS also?

 

Thanks again

 

My music is on an external drive controlled from a dedicated Win10 computer where minimserver runs. This setup behaves essentially like a NAS.

 

If you use BubbleUPnP on android as a control point to control the mrendu configured in MPD/DLNA mode, you basically do *not* need to run BubbleUPnP server at all.

 

BubbleUPnP server is needed essentially to supplement the mrendu DLNA renderer with OpenHome functionnalities needed when you use control points like Lumin and Linn Kazoo, which assume they will control renderers supporting OpenHome protocol, and will not work well without that.

The reason you do not need to run BubbleUPnP server when using BubbleUPnP on android is that this control point can work with both types of renderers, openhome or non-openhome renderers.

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My music is on an external drive controlled from a dedicated Win10 computer where minimserver runs. This setup behaves essentially like a NAS.

 

If you use BubbleUPnP on android as a control point to control the mrendu configured in MPD/DLNA mode, you basically do *not* need to run BubbleUPnP server at all.

 

BubbleUPnP server is needed essentially to supplement the mrendu DLNA renderer with OpenHome functionnalities needed when you use control points like Lumin and Linn Kazoo, which assume they will control renderers supporting OpenHome protocol, and will not work well without that.

The reason you do not need to run BubbleUPnP server when using BubbleUPnP on android is that this control point can work with both types of renderers, openhome or non-openhome renderers.

 

Nice one - this explains everything. Only one thing left to do - test it all and listen :-)

 

I've used BubbleUPnP before so I still have the full license for it under my Android purchases. I found it straight forward to use so will try it again.

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The USB 1.0 on mytek 192 does not work neither. The DAC locked and play as it would on USB 1.0. But no sound output from the DAC. Can I return back to 2.2 so at least I can listen.

 

There is a mismatch on one file for it's driver. I have isolated the issue and we just need to rebuild the driver and test things. It's going to take a little while longer. Please use the USB 1.0 input in the mean time.
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No need for BubbleUPnP Server in that configuration. The BubbleUPnP Android app operates with Minimserver and the uRendu directly.

 

Even minimserver can be by-passed right? Just have BubbeUPnP Android app operating the uRendu in DLNA mode directly? The Android app sees the uRendu as a renderer and you can browse the NAS library from the Android app?

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