Sonore microRendu

[vortecjr]

 

BACKGROUND

I started the Rendu series because I wasn't satisfied having to constantly deal with the shortfalls of general purpose motherboards When you use a general purpose motherboard, you get components on the board you don't need or want, you have to add noise filters, and you have to add plug-in cards, etc. I know I'm preaching to the choir because you have been dealing with these very issues in your personal builds. Like you, I wanted to get away from masking the problems and instead focus on addressing them at their core. The Signature Series Rendu is a world-class SPDIF/i2s source and I'm very proud of it. The microRendu is an extension of this concept and will fill the void by bringing a world-class USB output to the series.

 

ABOUT THE microRendu

The Sonore microRendu project is in essence two projects in one.

The first project is the Sonicorbiter operating system. Sonicorbiter is a collaboration between Sonore by Simple Design and Small Green Computer. The Sonicorbiter operating system is a preconfigured renderer / endpoint / player with selectable output modes. We have spent countless hours behind the scenes working with the various developers of its Linux applications to assure they work well and deliver the kind of performance you demand.

 

The second project is the hardware platform (codenamed toaster). The toaster is a collaboration between Sonore by simple Design, Small Green Computer, and John Swenson. As part of our research and development, we have tested various hardware solutions and quite frankly we were not impressed. In order to meet our goals and push our interests in a new direction, we needed to start fresh. This hardware has taken John over a year to design and incorporates several key features. For example There are regulated zones on the Sonore microRendu providing unprecedented clean power to all components. There are very low jitter oscillators - one for the CPU and one for the USB hub that generates a completely new USB data signal to feed your device. Make no mistake, this product is intended to give you goosebumps.

[vortecjr]

space reserved by JR

[vortecjr]

Question for you Jesus. Would this support the following connection?

 

Mac Mini running RoonServer, with WiFI enabled and the ethernet port on the Mac Mini connected directly to the microRendu in Mode #5 - RoonReady?

 

So Mac Mini to microRendu to DAC?

 

 

I have not been able to get that specific connection scheme to work. Also, the unit really wants to be connected to the internet. For example, the IP location URL used to find the unit on the network will not work.

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

I am very interested, and looking forward to what is needed for me to implement the microRendu so that I may employ it with my system. While I am curious about the price point. I am more curious about what is required for me to make it work for my system given my commitment to all sorts of devices intended to improve the rendition of sonic quality, i.e. The Regen, JS-2, MMK etc.

 

Looking forward to the next step and what it takes to become a customer.

 

Best,

Richard

 

I can only inform you of the design and recommend solutions. I suspect that people will try all kind of things connected to it and I'm sure they will report back their findings. I made this link for fun:) SONORE microRendu quick setup guide

[vortecjr]

Jesus-

 

Just another request (one already to Chris) to unify the microRendu threads. There's another one here on your sponsor forum started by a user, and an additional one with the same name started by Blizzard. It would be easier and make things clearer if the 3 threads were unified, or if the other two were locked, and this one become the "official" thread for info about the device.

 

Just my $02.

 

I closed the post named 'uRendu', but I opted not to merge it here so we could start fresh. The one on the main forum from Blizzard should remain as IMO.

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

jesus-

 

2 questions:

 

1. It's been previously posted that the microRendu has the essentials of the Regen built into its USB circuitry. Does this mean it makes a Regen superfluous?\Have you tried them together?

 

Any SQ improvement form using a Regen together with the microRendu over a microRendu on its own?

 

2. Is the picture you posted the actual picture of how it will look? Looks handsome to me.

 

I have not tried that combination. That is a sample case with the correct artwork and endplates installed.

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

The production one is going to be 12mm longer than this one. The design has a processor module plugged into a carrier board which has the regulators, oscillator and connectors. In the early prototypes the CPU module was very thin and we managed to fit it over the USB jack. The latest version won't fit over the jack so the case has to be a bit longer.

 

John S.

 

John, the case in the image is actually long compared to the early design.

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

Looking forward to this one!

 

This is how intend to use it to simplify mu setup. Counting from the router (a bit simplified…)

 

Messy today:

Router -> FMC -> FMC -> MacMini -> JitterBug -> Regen Green -> USB cable -> Regen Amber -> DAC

 

Simpler tomorrow:

Router -> FMC -> FMC -> microRendu -> DAC

 

With the micrRendu the MacMini (now running RoonServer instead of NAA) will have its UpTone tweaks removed and the JS-2 power supply moved to the micrRendu.

 

I like it! Do not put 12VDC into the unit.

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

Thanks Jesus for the reply.

 

While hoping this might work as it does when interfacing my Mac Mini with my Deviate via ethernet, I realize that in lieu of what I presume would be extra code either on the Mac side or elsewhere, this is probably a no go ( as the Mac Mini has no way of knowing the Rendu is on the other side of the line.

 

Barr

 

The closest things that could work on the microRendu and Sonicorbitr SE is having a router between them and the Apple computer even if it's not connected to the internet. BTW it works on the Signature Series Rendu:)

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

Correct.

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

Jesus:

 

How would you describe the differences between the microRendu and the Sonic Orbiter SE? Did you envision two different target audiences when you created these two products?

 

I want to let people decide that for themselves. It can be the same audience or not...it's about having options.

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

---

 

Coming soon, MSRP TBD

 

 

Can you tell us when you think the price will come?

 

The price will be greatly impacted by the power supply option. What are your thoughts on the power supply you would likely need? Everyone is welcome to pitch in on this.

 

Options:

1. sold with no power supply

2. sold with iFi iPower power supply

3. sold with SOtM battery supply

4. sold with CIAudio linear supply

5. sold with Teddy Pardo linear supply

7. sold with Sonore Signature Series linear supply

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

Jesus

in a different thread you said the following: "For the record there are currently two units in the microRendu series, but I have not worked out how to incorporate the second unit into the webpage so there is no information on it yet."

Can you give us a little detail on the "other" unit? Still USB? The re-clocker from Signature Rendu adapted to USB?

 

The second unit was a MinimServer and LMS server for USB attached drives. However, it makes more sense to make it part of the Sonicorbiter series. If it looks like it would happen anytime soon I'll start a new thread for it.

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

Thanks for your detailed reply. Same processor as in the cubox (but with all the hardware optimizations that you describe, and probably no uneeded hardware). It is really exciting to finally see a custom board designed solely for audio.

 

I guess the software compiled for the SonicOrbiter SE is identical ?

 

Which leads me to my next question - if you can spare a little more time to answer. On the software side, I have personally recently experimented with a linux system developed around TinyCore (TinyMPD, made in Russia!) which gave me pretty astonishing results. Over here in France, another variation on TinyCore (TinySqueeze) by the same developer has also been recently tested by a number of people and adopted over Daphile, and other highly tweaked systems. Prior to that I had tested a number of distributions and MPD implementations, and was not entirely convinced of the importance of software, but I must say I am now part of that "camp"... On Cubox, there is also a Japanese developer offering TinyCore based MPD solution (LightMPD).

 

So I am curious also to find out more about the Sonicorbiter software. To be perfectly honest I am also curious to know whether it will be possible to use the microRendu with other distributions/implementations (Fun with Linux...).

 

I could not find any specifics about the Sonicorbiter system - what is based on ? are there specific optimizations ? etc...

 

Thanks again.

 

Allow me to reply because John has been mostly involved in the hardware side of things. The Sonicorbiter operating system has to be adjusted to the hardware. In the case of microRendu there are some differences compared to the Sonicorbiter SE. For example, the microRendu only has one USB output and no optical output. As such, the operating system has to be adjusted for these differences. However, nothing prevents us from tweaking the operating system to optimize things from unit to unit...

 

It's hard to keep up with all the distributions that pop up. We have been using MPD for many years and it's a fantastic player. It's included in the Sonicorbiter operating system, but we don't base its implementation on any of the distributions you mentioned. We compile the code from source and enable the features that we have determined are what is needed to achieve our goals. One thing worth noting is that each output mode is independent and only one output mode is working at any given time. In essence it's as if you are getting several units in one. You can even uninstall unused output modes from the software manager if you feel that could possible improve things.

 

I'm certain someone will try to load an alternate operating system on the unit, but we will not be able to support them in that effort.

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

Maybe a very strange question, but has quality of the input UTP signal effect on the output ( sound quality) of the Microrendu? And if so; what can be done to optimize quality?

 

I am asking this to help me to decide between the option of an optimized all in one server-renderersystem ( the Vortexbox audiophile microjukebox or Antipodes DS for example) versus my current Nuc / Nas via UTP into the Microrendu?

I will be running Roon.

 

We are providing signal conditioning, signal isolation, and EMI suppression at the input of the microRendu. All the solutions you mentioned would also be connected to the network, but I don't know what optimization they might offer, if any, in this respect. The microRendu will be RoonReady certified. Using Roon in combination with the microRendu will be very simple because Roon automatically discovers the unit.

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

Jesus and John,

 

I have a few questions about the microRendu that I hope you can answer at this time.

 

1) My plan is to connect the microRendu in my system thus: MacMini connected to a router>Router connected to the microRendu>connected to exaSound DAC by USB. All music would be on an external HD connected to the MacMini by Thunderbolt (could be by USB at some point).

I would use Roon with HQPlayer integrated to stream to the microRendu as a NAA for HQPlayer.

 

Is the above configuration doable?

 

2) If the above is doable then:

Is it better to have the microRendu connected to the DAC using a USB hard adapter or a USB cable (after market audiophile type)?

 

3) Is the microRendu galvanic isolated from what is connected to its input (Ethernet connection)?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Roon with HQPlayer integrated to stream to the microRendu in NAA output mode will work. However, we will not be supporting that device. The microRendu will ship with a generic hard adapter for your convenience and we will offer high quality USB Cardas cables for your consideration. Note that not every device and or installation will allow proper use of the hard adapter. We leave it up to you to decide what is proper. The unit is isolated at the input as noted above.

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

Yes, I think Jesus R is saying Sonore will not support the Exasound DACs. I suspect this is not his choice.

 

Exasound uses a proprietary USB interface on its DACs. As the microRendu runs Linux there needs to be a Linux driver for operation with the Exasound DAC. Exasound has never shipped a driver for Linux, so its DAC can't be supported.

 

Apologies to Jesus R if I got this wrong.

 

While the USB interface might be proprietary the Linux driver should not be. If they modified the Kernel with a patch to get it to support their DAC they should release the source code to the open source community. If they don't then they are in violation of the Kernel licensing. I have offered in the past to help in developing the driver and I recently requested the drivers without success. That aside just about every other device on the planet is supported...

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

Yes, to be more precise, I have heard Exasound has a proprietary USB protocol enhancement of some sort for DSD playback. One was auditioned here on Windows and it sounds great, but this limitation stopped a purchase.

 

That is code for I don't want to share it with you. There is some evidence that suggests that it's just streaming DoP on Linux.

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

Well, shoot, that is disappointing. Time to rethink my upgrade roadmap. Regardless, thanks for the clarification.

 

—David

 

E-mail them and ask for the driver. If they have a driver complied from source code and it's not a patch to the Linux kernel then there should be no reason not to give it to customers.

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

David, Jesus, I will send a request to George at exaSound. David why don't you do the same. I might open a thread on CA for all exaSound owners to express their interest in having the Linux Driver available for the exaSound DACs .

 

Jesus, just to be clear, it is the Linux Driver for using DSD native (not DoP), correct?

 

No. Their devices are not seen by the unit and you can't play anything to them.

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

Jesus, I think I am not explaining right what I mean to ask.

 

1) If I understand you; The exaSound DACs will not work with the microRendu because exaSound does not have a Linux Driver available for use with their DACs. Is that correct?

 

2) If exaSound offered a Linux Driver for their DACs that would mean the microRendu would work with the exaSound DACs?

 

3) Does a Linux Driver allow the user of a DAC to use DSD direct/native without having to use DoP for DSD?

 

4) If so will the microRendu be able to play DSD direct/native without having to use DoP to play DSD?

 

I hope I am more clear in what I am asking. Also can you please answer each one separately?

 

Thank you.

 

I understand what you are asking, but it's a little premature to answer. Right now their devices are not supported and they are not cooperating to get them supported.

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

Jesus, sorry but I do not see why you can not answer at least some of my questions as they do not relate to only the exaSound but Linux Drivers and the microRendu in general.

 

And all are hypothetical. I ask IF so why not answer on that basses about the exaSound?

 

All I am just trying to do is understand two different, but related, things.

 

1) Can the microRendu, using a Linux Driver, handle DSD native/direct without using DoP?

 

2) IF exaSound ends up offering a Linux Driver, that is to Linux spec, SHOULD it be able to work with the microRendu?

 

The number one question is important to me regardless of the exaSound issue. I am not married to the exaSound DAC forever. However, Any DAC or "Server, Render" I use I would like to have them be able to do DSD direct/native and not just DSD by DoP.

So that capability in the microRendu is an important purchase decision for me.

 

Again, thank you in advance.

 

I don't want to get your hopes up on this. For example, M2Tech held out on providing Linux support for a very long time. They finally hired a consultant who wrote the driver and we helped the consultant with testing. Integration into our products went smoothly, but it could just as easily had issues and not been worth adding. If a solution becomes available I will look into include it.

 

The microRendu already supports native DSD into certain products. Inclusion onto this list is dependent on many factors and we don't have complete control of most of them. It would be helpful if manufacturers were willing to assist in getting native DSD support, but most are not. Wired 4 Sound is interested in native DSD support so they are working with us. Some devices already have the necessary hardware parameters needed to support native DSD and could be added. However, the process to include a devices is pain, it's time consuming, and it requires many hours of validations afterwards. If you want more information on native DSD support you can refer to this link:

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f26-sonore-sponsored/sonore-sonicorbiter-se-native-direct-stream-digital-support-27418/

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

I am interested in an answer to a small variation to HiFiAl's question: will the microrendu (or sonicorbiter SE for that matter) pass native DSD to an Amenero USB input?

 

I have a Lampizator DAC with Amenero USB input and my understanding is that it can currently only receive DoP through a Linux NAA, but that there is now, or soon to be, a patch to the Linux OS that will allow passing native DSD?

 

Thanks Jesus!

 

Jordan

 

At least that product is supported on Linux and yes it currently works with DoP. I have already been in contact with Amanero, but I don't have anything more to report at the moment. All we can do for now is wait and see what they do. Given the choice though this would be the one I would work on first to add to our unit.

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

Yes, I'll do so, per Jesus's suggestion … although understand that I'm a prospective ExaSound customer rather than a current one.

 

Two more annoying questions for Jesus, just so I can understand the situation a little better: We know that ExaSound has some kind of Linux driver because the ExaSound PlayPoint is Linux-based, right? And since other Linux-oriented developers (like Sonore) don't have access to the Exa driver, it's difficult to tell whether that driver sends native DSD or DoP to the Exa DACs, correct?

 

Parenthetically, I'll just point out that the Exa DACs are, at least superficially, very attractive to "Mac guys" because the Exa ASIO driver for OS X would seem to provide the only way to do native DSD (i.e., not DoP) from a Mac. However, if one wants to add a Linux-based HQP NAA and/or Roon endpoint to the mix, the whole thing goes pear-shaped — in that case you're limited to Exa's PlayPoint.

 

--David

 

I have been in contact with George via email (since 2011) and he recently told me that it's Linux. It's not difficult to know what MPD supports...it supports conversion of DSD to PCM by default and DSD/DoP via configuration option. There is also a MPD support ticket from them requesting assistance for DoP issues. However, if you really want to know you should ask then...

 

Jesus R

[vortecjr]

I don't have the Sonicorbiter SE (waiting on microRendu) but have been using a Cubox-i running the HQP NAA image (Linux) and to play native DSD (non-DoP) either DSF or converted PCM files. My DAC has the JLSounds USB board which started supporting native DSD about a year a ago. So it is possible to use native DSD with Linux. As Jesus has eluded to, it is up to the manufacturer (DAC or in my case USB board) to make this happen.

 

It's nice to have their support, but not always necessary. I was able to get native DSD support for a few devices without the manufacturer's participation.

 

Jesus R