jabbr Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I'm glad you appreciated my attempt at levity. That is a true story, BTW. The irony is that while REAL birth control pills were being developed at that time, there were none actually on the market yet, but the sweet young thing across the street didn't know that! I understand where you are coming from. I too get a lot of entertainment value from reading and posting to this forum, and I have learned a lot over the years as well. And yes, Chris is very knowledgeable and does a great job here! You missed your true calling as an AudioQuest salesman! (I hope the sarcasm is not lost here). I don't share the surprise at this story that others exhibit, the bit that flipped in my mind is the sale of $1K so-called Ethernet cables, and in all honesty, this has led to my promotion of optical ethernet (for which I get $0 financial benefit), because you can literally replace your entire network with state of the art 10gbs fiber for the cost of a few so-called audiophile AQ ethernet cables. On the other hand there are bright spots among companies which supply our hobby: Nelson Pass of Pass Labs and First Watt comes to mind. He publishes the circuits, particularly ones that are previous generation. Designer of $60,000 amps answers questions from DIY hobbyists. Sheds both light and heat on the subject (amps are class A after all So like everything, we take the good with the bad and caveat emptor:) Expensive cables: unless these folks start explaining the science behind the claims, and not a bunch of smoke and mirrors, I remain: out:) Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
JR4321 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Expensive cables: unless these folks start explaining the science behind the claims, and not a bunch of smoke and mirrors, I remain: out:) Temp-Flex® Air-Dielectric Ultra-Low-Loss Flexible Microwave Coaxial Cables - Molex Odin 2 Supreme Reference | Speaker Cable Don't waste your time reviewing the scientific explanations on the "expensive cables". Not only do they not understand these properties, they can't even copy them accurately from the vendors they purchase them from e.g. 98% VOP. Link to comment
jabbr Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Temp-Flex[emoji768] Air-Dielectric Ultra-Low-Loss Flexible Microwave Coaxial Cables - Molex Odin 2 Supreme Reference | Speaker Cable Don't waste your time reviewing the scientific explanations on the "expensive cables". Not only do they not understand these properties, they can't even copy them accurately from the vendors they purchase them from e.g. 98% VOP. Sure, at least they are telling us what it's made from and provide specs! The area that I'm most concerned about are so-called audiophile Ethernet & USB cables. What I'd like to see are some standard measurements. Ethernet cables are measured with "eye patterns" for example. When I buy a $5 Corning optical fiber cable, for example, I have access to eye pattern data. For copper, Belkin media twist, for example. Fancy AC cords? Not so much (but I do use balanced power:) Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
sandyk Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Sure, at least they are telling us what it's made from and provide specs! The area that I'm most concerned about are so-called audiophile Ethernet & USB cables. What I'd like to see are some standard measurements. Ethernet cables are measured with "eye patterns" for example. When I buy a $5 Corning optical fiber cable, for example, I have access to eye pattern data. For copper, Belkin media twist, for example. Fancy AC cords? Not so much (but I do use balanced power:) I would like to see published Data on the Curious cables for example, which as far as I can see are most unlikely to meet USB 2.0 requirements for impedance, and possibly screening too . Either they do a "fantastic" job with some systems, especially those using laptops (?) , or with much better systems where a great amount of attention to detail has been done in removing mains related rubbish, including balanced mains supplies etc., they can make the system sound worse. A certified USB 2.0 cable should work correctly with all well designed USB devices, and that includes the Intona Isolator. The better cables will give an audible improvement in the area of RF/EMI rejection, but all certified USB 2.0 cables should work with properly designed USB gear. There are a few other cables that either appear to give great results, or are problematical. They don't appear to meet the relevant USB 2.0 specifications either. Some manufacturers engineers must be tearing their hair out trying to make their USB devices far more cable tolerant than they otherwise should need to be ! How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to comment
CR250 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Sure, at least they are telling us what it's made from and provide specs! The area that I'm most concerned about are so-called audiophile Ethernet & USB cables. What I'd like to see are some standard measurements. Ethernet cables are measured with "eye patterns" for example. When I buy a $5 Corning optical fiber cable, for example, I have access to eye pattern data. For copper, Belkin media twist, for example. Fancy AC cords? Not so much (but I do use balanced power:) The industry won't give standard measurements for power amps, I don't see it happening with cables. Link to comment
plissken Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 If this were the first time Dennis trolled in this fashion I'd have kept quiet. Sounds like you should go bark up the AQ tree and not Dennis. Link to comment
plissken Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Perhaps, but we don't know for sure what the video sounded like BEFORE suffering the horrible Youtube compression ! D-Tronics or AQ could make the fully uncompressed video available for download. But for you maybe they will fly out with the master recording and burn it to a CD on your system ;-) Link to comment
plissken Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Recently swapped my Audioquest Vodka 10M and .75M to the new Nordost Heimdall 2. Using a network connection between a NAS to Router and Router to Aurender. All I can say is Tidal sounds much better now. I particularly hear it in the bass more but in general the sound is more complete. I have tried A/B with local content and although streaming is not as good it just got much closer with this upgrade. At the time Nordost did not have a network cable so took a shot with Audioquest. Fortunately my son is just getting started so he will get the AQ cables. I've got $1600 that says I can fly out with a layer 3 switch and a client and server computer with dual NICS. Setup a LAG that lets me swap cables at will with zero interruption in the play back and you will crash and burn. It's time to put this bullshit with SQ of Ethernet to bed. I'll bring the BJC cables and what ever cables you have would need to at least be thrown on a certification analyzer. Let me know and I'll PM you all the pertinent details. Link to comment
plissken Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Welp, there you go. Now I wish I had saved that video so I could send it to AQ HQ. I could get a copy. I don't think AQ is looking too hard ;-) Link to comment
PopPop Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 . . . .What is not debatable in Dennis' mission. He has stated it outright and in the same vein as outing the malarky, I felt the need to out his intent. I don't always agree with Dennis but that doesn't mean I believe he is wrong. Simply thought provoking. I appreciate his honesty. That I ask questions? I am more concerned about being stupid than looking like I might be. Link to comment
esldude Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 Audioquest HDMI cables - Page 8 Posting as Joe Harley, Bill Low from Audioquest has some responses to this video. He then later signed up for his own account and posts as WELquest. His final post is #107. So maybe 4est will be happy to read Bill Low's version of things. No one was preventing him from giving his side anyway. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
Paul R Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 I've got $1600 that says I can fly out with a layer 3 switch and a client and server computer with dual NICS. Setup a LAG that lets me swap cables at will with zero interruption in the play back and you will crash and burn. It's time to put this bullshit with SQ of Ethernet to bed. I'll bring the BJC cables and what ever cables you have would need to at least be thrown on a certification analyzer. Let me know and I'll PM you all the pertinent details. Be better done with layer 2 switching of course... Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC. Robert A. Heinlein Link to comment
Paul R Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Audioquest HDMI cables - Page 8 Posting as Joe Harley, Bill Low from Audioquest has some responses to this video. He then later signed up for his own account and posts as WELquest. His final post is #107. So maybe 4est will be happy to read Bill Low's version of things. No one was preventing him from giving his side anyway. This whole damn situation is absolutely surreal. Dennis, I believe you are absolutely right on this, but I kinda wish you were not. Like a pot of boiling snake oil... Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC. Robert A. Heinlein Link to comment
esldude Posted February 6, 2016 Author Share Posted February 6, 2016 This whole damn situation is absolutely surreal. Dennis, I believe you are absolutely right on this, but I kinda wish you were not. Like a pot of boiling snake oil... How do you think I feel. I spent real money for AQ products. Including some rather expensive for the time (though not even middle priced in the current environment). I think I could have drawn up some more believable responses versus what he did. Some that would have went over better as well. So partly the boiling pot of snake oil combined with an attitude he need not even bother with anything better. I don't think he did himself any favours. He has lots more money than me though, so maybe that makes me the dummy. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
plissken Posted February 6, 2016 Share Posted February 6, 2016 Be better done with layer 2 switching of course... Since lag happens at MAC layer of course. But there isn't exactly a plethora of managed layer two switches. Link to comment
plissken Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 How do you think I feel. I spent real money for AQ products. Including some rather expensive for the time (though not even middle priced in the current environment). I think I could have drawn up some more believable responses versus what he did. Some that would have went over better as well. So partly the boiling pot of snake oil combined with an attitude he need not even bother with anything better. I don't think he did himself any favours. He has lots more money than me though, so maybe that makes me the dummy. If you haven't seen post # 111 You should. ACK just owned Bill Low / AudioQuest in one post. He pointed out the circular logic and ultimate hypocrisy. Link to comment
CR250 Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 If some of you guys spent as much time listening to stereo equipment, as you do arguing about it, threads like this wouldn't be necessary. Link to comment
esldude Posted February 7, 2016 Author Share Posted February 7, 2016 If some of you guys spent as much time listening to stereo equipment, as you do arguing about it, threads like this wouldn't be necessary. Care to explain how your supposition would work? And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
PopPop Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Reading v. Listening. I like to be entertained, both serve that purpose. I have actually found some value slogging through pages of contrary opinions. That I ask questions? I am more concerned about being stupid than looking like I might be. Link to comment
4est Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 Deleted, what's the point... Audioquest HDMI cables - Page 8 Posting as Joe Harley, Bill Low from Audioquest has some responses to this video. He then later signed up for his own account and posts as WELquest. His final post is #107. So maybe 4est will be happy to read Bill Low's version of things. No one was preventing him from giving his side anyway. Forrest: Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP> Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz Link to comment
DaliFan6 Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 IMO, if a big cable company brings out new cables on a regular basis, and has many increments and nice colours, then it's sausage factory marketing and manufacturing...and I'd steer clear of such a company. Abbey Road Studios in the UK some years ago put a tender out for a neutral cable for use in their studios. A few big names made a submission, but the sounds engineers did not get what they wanted. So they made their own cables.....and they have not changed them much since, I think only slight modifications to the plugs. They are now called Studio Connections. They do make and supply cables in small batches for dealerships...but not to many! Link to comment
plissken Posted February 7, 2016 Share Posted February 7, 2016 If some of you guys spent as much time listening to stereo equipment, as you do arguing about it, threads like this wouldn't be necessary. I found out by shear oddity years ago I can have music playing and type all at the same time. I'm telling you it was a fluke and the obviousness of it hit me like a bolt of thunder ;-) (yes I understood what I just typed, it's a joke and relax). Link to comment
CR250 Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 Care to explain how your supposition would work? "IMO, if a big cable company brings out new cables on a regular basis, and has many increments and nice colours, then it's sausage factory marketing and manufacturing...and I'd steer clear of such a company." I know that most people won't agree with me on this, but I believe a product, cables or otherwise, is best judged by using it in its intended application. So, if you want to buy a pair of cables, try them first and make up your own mind as to their value. Its better than getting your listening experience from reading reviews and comments. Link to comment
Paul R Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 "IMO, if a big cable company brings out new cables on a regular basis, and has many increments and nice colours, then it's sausage factory marketing and manufacturing...and I'd steer clear of such a company." I know that most people won't agree with me on this, but I believe a product, cables or otherwise, is best judged by using it in its intended application. So, if you want to buy a pair of cables, try them first and make up your own mind as to their value. Its better than getting your listening experience from reading reviews and comments. You buy anything else that way? Houses, cars, computers, life insurance? Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC. Robert A. Heinlein Link to comment
jabbr Posted February 8, 2016 Share Posted February 8, 2016 You buy anything else that way? Houses, cars, computers, life insurance? Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
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