Those who own Audioquest cable...what do you think?

[plissken]

Except:

 

1. People do hear differences in cables, often repeatable.

2. They are not hearing imaginary differences.

3. What is causing the difference?

 

We know what it is not - it is not massive differences in LCR. It is also, not imagination.

 

Conundrum - which always means one thing. There is some factor there we are missing.

 

-Paul

 

Where are these write ups at?

[sandyk]

Except:

 

1. People do hear differences in cables, often repeatable.

2. They are not hearing imaginary differences.

3. What is causing the difference?

 

We know what it is not - it is not massive differences in LCR. It is also, not imagination.

 

Conundrum - which always means one thing. There is some factor there we are missing.

 

-Paul

 

Well said!

No, I do not claim to hear differences between cables of very similar construction and length, but many people that I respect do.

[mansr]

Well said!

No, I do not claim to hear differences between cables of very similar construction and length, but many people that I respect do.

 

I have, by definition, no respect for those people.

[Jud]

Actually you are listening to the demodulated information embedded in the fixed frequency carrier.

 

It's like my dialing up your cell phone with a fax machine and having you listen with pencil and paper at hand so you can write out my pizza order

 

Since the RF band includes all commonly used digital sampling rates, just wondering what the possible effects in a DAC might be.

 

Understand that I am not pretending to have technical knowledge and was simply throwing out responses off the top of my head to mansr's question, which was how cables with identical LCR measurements could possibly sound different.

 

The first thing I thought of was behavior with respect to noise and interference. Would you say that cables cannot differ in regard to such behavior, or that noise and interference need not be taken into account?

[mansr]

Since the RF band includes all commonly used digital sampling rates, just wondering what the possible effects in a DAC might be.

 

Understand that I am not pretending to have technical knowledge and was simply throwing out responses off the top of my head to mansr's question, which was how cables with identical LCR measurements could possibly sound different.

 

The first thing I thought of was behavior with respect to noise and interference. Would you say that cables cannot differ in regard to such behavior, or that noise and interference need not be taken into account?

 

Interference is important, but it (or lack of it) doesn't cause the kind of effects believers generally ascribe to cables.

[plissken]

Since the RF band includes all commonly used digital sampling rates, just wondering what the possible effects in a DAC might be.

 

Understand that I am not pretending to have technical knowledge and was simply throwing out responses off the top of my head to mansr's question, which was how cables with identical LCR measurements could possibly sound different.

 

The first thing I thought of was behavior with respect to noise and interference. Would you say that cables cannot differ in regard to such behavior, or that noise and interference need not be taken into account?

 

They should be nill because the sensitive parts should be in an rf cage/oven.

[Jud]

Interference is important, but it (or lack of it) doesn't cause the kind of effects believers generally ascribe to cables.

 

Interesting. So if someone said he or she could hear low level details and microdynamics better with cable A than cable B, this could never be the result of low level noise from cable B masking those sounds?

[sandyk]

I have, by definition, no respect for those people.

 

Just as many members have very little respect for you and your many anti subjective pronouncements !

Even the actual series output resistor value in a Preamplifier that is capable of being used as a low powered audio amplifier, due to having more than adequate current capabilities (>100mA Bias) and a low output Z, can cause a considerable difference in how a typical interconnect, whose impedance shouldn't matter much at audio frequencies sounds. Even the differences between say 82 ohms, 100 ohms and 120 ohms. In a Class A Preamplifier project in another forum, 100 ohms was found to sound more realistic than the other 2 values.It would have been helpful to have been able to have used 120 ohms, which is the designed output impedance for headphones meeting the old IEC61938 requirements.

This was when used with a Class A amplifier having an input impedance of around 15Kohms.

[Jud]

They should be nill because the sensitive parts should be in an rf cage/oven.

 

So a well shielded cable is a waste of money?

 

And the same with regard to crosstalk - shielding or insulating conductors from each other is a waste?

[plissken]

So a well shielded cable is a waste of money?

 

And the same with regard to crosstalk - shielding or insulating conductors from each other is a waste?

 

Not at all. I have a roll of Monoprice mic cable that I use for all my RCA and Balanced assemblies. 18AWG and 98% braided copper shield with drain wire.

 

Really well constructed and not cost prohibitive.

[Jud]

Not at all. I have a roll of Monoprice mic cable that I use for all my RCA and Balanced assemblies. 18AWG and 98% braided copper shield with drain wire.

 

Really well constructed and not cost prohibitive.

 

But why did you buy shielded cable?

[Allan F]

The only problem is that those measurements don't actually mean anything. LRC on audio cables in the lengths commonly use in stereo systems is trivial and if one does the maths, the amount of measurable attenuation is in the 10th of a dB (or less) range and that attenuation is at the top of the passband (20 KHz and above) where I guarantee than nobody, including the virgin ears of a 12-year-old-girl, could possibly notice it!

If we assume that some interconnect or USB cables do, in fact, sound different, then there would appear to be two possibilities. Either the very small measurable differences do have an effect on the brain's auditory function or, if they don't, then some other characteristic - currently unknown or misunderstood - must account for these differences.

[sandyk]

So a well shielded cable is a waste of money?

 

And the same with regard to crosstalk - shielding or insulating conductors from each other is a waste?

 

Of course it's not.

Let's also see the "experts" explain why so many members love the Curious USB cables, and short boutique USB cables instead of a simple USB adaptor.

I note that they normally keep well clear of threads like those, due undoubtedly to the reception they would receive there from the many members who can hear the benefits of the Curious cables.

[plissken]

But why did you buy shielded cable?

 

Because the AES standards body spec calls for it for balanced interconnects.

 

For my single ended cables the shield just floats.

[sandyk]

Because the AES standards body spec calls for it for balanced interconnects.

 

For my single ended cables the shield just floats.

 

Then obviously you don't have a signal chain that benefits from having continuity of the 0 volts (earth) connection from Power Amplifier, through the Preamplifier, then extended to the source component which can result in very low S/N if the design of the actual components is first rate.

[plissken]

Then obviously you don't have a signal chain that benefits from having continuity of the 0 volts (earth) connection from Power Amplifier, through the Preamplifier, then extended to the source component which can result in very low S/N if the design of the actual components is first rate.

 

I'll refer you to the RANE engineering notes. I don't have a pre-amp. I'm straight from Balanced out on my PCIe sound card to amp.

 

Sound System Interconnection

[esldude]

If we assume that some interconnect or USB cables do, in fact, sound different, then there would appear to be two possibilities. Either the very small measurable differences do have an effect on the brain's auditory function or, if they don't, then some other characteristic - currently unknown or misunderstood - must account for these differences.

 

And if we assume they don't sound different there is no conflict with theory or measurement in how cables carry a signal.

[Jud]

Because the AES standards body spec calls for it for balanced interconnects.

 

For my single ended cables the shield just floats.

 

I apologize for the irritation of asking a million questions, but I don't know the answers and I'd like to.

 

What's the reasoning behind calling for shielding in the balanced spec? Is there an equivalent spec for single-ended, and if so why is no shielding or a floating shield OK?

[plissken]

Then obviously you don't have a signal chain that benefits from having continuity of the 0 volts (earth) connection from Power Amplifier, through the Preamplifier, then extended to the source component which can result in very low S/N if the design of the actual components is first rate.

 

How would you know what my setup is like? That's a rather entitled post to make with zero facts.

[semente]

And if we assume they don't sound different there is no conflict with theory or measurement in how cables carry a signal.

 

On the other hand, our ability to analise natural phenomena is limited by the current state of technology.

 

R

[plissken]

I apologize for the irritation of asking a million questions, but I don't know the answers and I'd like to.

 

What's the reasoning behind calling for shielding in the balanced spec? Is there an equivalent spec for single-ended, and if so why is no shielding or a floating shield OK?

 

I would start by taking a coffee break and reading the RANE notes on this. The shield on balanced wires is because ground is 0 voltage and all the noise can be shunted there without any effect on the -/+ pairs.

 

SE connections work and they can work well. They are not optimal technically speaking.

[PopPop]

Yes, I have listened to radio frequencies picked up by cables (called "antennas" when they are intentionally used for this purpose) and conducted into electronics many thousands of times.

 

[emoji106]

[semente]

I would start by taking a coffee break and reading the RANE notes on this. The shield on balanced wires is because ground is 0 voltage and all the noise can be shunted there without any effect on the -/+ pairs.

 

SE connections work and they can work well. They are not optimal technically speaking.

 

But isn't the signal path much simpler with SE connections?

 

R

[plissken]

On the other hand, our ability to analise natural phenomena is limited by the current state of technology.

 

R

 

Yeah. They worked for 15 years to try and measure and prove gravitational waves existed. The sonic differences of a three foot section of extruded copper is next on their list.

[sandyk]

I'll refer you to the RANE engineering notes. I don't have a pre-amp. I'm straight from Balanced out on my PCIe sound card to amp.

 

Sound System Interconnection

 

I don't need to read your RANE engineering notes. My reply was in response to this statement from you .

For my single ended cables the shield just floats.