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Sonicorbiter - NAA Output Mode


vortecjr

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Emailed back and forth with Jussi (emails were bouncing back because I mistyped signalyst). He was very helpful. Turning off my university vpn seems to have made an improvement.

 

I don't use any vpn's and I have the same symptoms. I've never seen HQP/NAA work wih Roon and microrendu on my system ever. HQP works as an engine for Roon playback, and RoonReady/microrendu works with Roon, and microrendu "sees" my DAC in "DAC Diagnostics".....but Roon/HQP-NAA/Microrendu do not work together on my system.

 

Any one have this working ???

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I don't use any vpn's and I have the same symptoms. I've never seen HQP/NAA work wih Roon and microrendu on my system ever. HQP works as an engine for Roon playback, and RoonReady/microrendu works with Roon, and microrendu "sees" my DAC in "DAC Diagnostics".....but Roon/HQP-NAA/Microrendu do not work together on my system.

 

Any one have this working ???

 

Lots of us have this working. It's a pretty common setup around here.

 

The NAA is a bit wonky with networks. My HQP occaisionally loses mine on the network and it takes a few minutes and/or a reset of HW for HQP to find the NAA again. But this doesn't happen often, usually it works fine.

 

There is probably something in your network setup that doesn't "agree" with the NAA. The 3.14 version of HQP is supposed to be better at working with NAA's. You could try the 3.14 Beta. Also, make sure your mR/NAA is up to date, and then go in and press "save" for the settings. Either of those things may help.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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Lots of us have this working. It's a pretty common setup around here.

 

The NAA is a bit wonky with networks. My HQP occaisionally loses mine on the network and it takes a few minutes and/or a reset of HW for HQP to find the NAA again. But this doesn't happen often, usually it works fine.

 

There is probably something in your network setup that doesn't "agree" with the NAA. The 3.14 version of HQP is supposed to be better at working with NAA's. You could try the 3.14 Beta. Also, make sure your mR/NAA is up to date, and then go in and press "save" for the settings. Either of those things may help.

 

Thanks firedog. Tried HQP beta, no luck. Tried disabling firewall. I agree it seems to be a network issue. I'm not clear on where exactly this "save" button is though. Is in the microrendu GUI ?

 

thanks for your help !

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Thanks firedog. Tried HQP beta, no luck. Tried disabling firewall. I agree it seems to be a network issue. I'm not clear on where exactly this "save" button is though. Is in the microrendu GUI ?

 

thanks for your help !

Sorry, got confused. No save for NAA, just for some of the other apps.

Maybe Jesus or Miska could help.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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I got it working... however I have no clue what made it work : I did not change anything in the software setup. I disconnected everything, reconnected (may be following a different sequence). Initially I only saw the "integrated SPDIF" device associated with NAA... I again disconnected/reconnected the USB cable and finally the USB device appeared ! Now everything is working including the integration with Roon. Go figure ???

 

Tomorrow I'll try again on my initial setup and hope it will work there as well.

 

Came back to my original setup and until now no luck. Note that when I managed to get it working in my other setup (I commute between 2 locations), I did not have to change anything to software or hardware, just connecting, disconnecting, stopping, restarting many times and eventually it worked... but here until now I did not manage yet.

 

I showed the wireshark trace I tool last week to a network engineer, he told me that one can see the PC sending a broadcast request 3 times but never receives any reply and then it stops.

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Hi,

 

i got this problem, not sure if anyone had a solution here.

 

I have a router and living room and power line adaptor in my listening room that connected to my router.

 

HQplayer able to connect to Rendu if my Macbook connect to living room WIFI, but will not work if i connected to listening room wifi, but that method work if run ROON instead of NAA.

 

Thanks!

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The best thing to do in these hard cases is to contact Signalyst. I would also send them the log that HQ Player generates in case it contains any clues on the connection issue. The button that initiates the log is in HQ P Settings, but I'm not sure where the log file is located on a PC or Mac.

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Hi,

 

i got this problem, not sure if anyone had a solution here.

 

I have a router and living room and power line adaptor in my listening room that connected to my router.

 

HQplayer able to connect to Rendu if my Macbook connect to living room WIFI, but will not work if i connected to listening room wifi, but that method work if run ROON instead of NAA.

 

Thanks!

 

Everything needs to be on a common network. RoonReady and NAA are different protocols and each will behave differently. The microRendu should really be connected to the router via Ethernet cable.

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Everything needs to be on a common network. RoonReady and NAA are different protocols and each will behave differently. The microRendu should really be connected to the router via Ethernet cable.

 

My Rendu is connected to power line adapter...unless i move the system out of the room, what i curious is why they don't work since Rendu and HQplayer is connected to the Power line adapter but Rendu thru wire, laptop thru WIFI.

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My Rendu is connected to power line adapter...unless i move the system out of the room, what i curious is why they don't work since Rendu and HQplayer is connected to the Power line adapter but Rendu thru wire, laptop thru WIFI.

 

Have you tired to connect the microRendu directly to the router?

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Update: So not getting HQP/NAA to work with microrendu and roon, and HQP not seeing my DAC, despite microrendu having no problem seeing it, I fire up Wireshark to do some network analysis, intending to capture the network requests and answerbacks. I go check all the settings on the various equipment/software, and guess what ? Suddenly my DAC has shown up in the "device" feild in HQP. It plays. No changes where made anywhere prior. Same exact setup that wasn't working since the beginning. Will have to see if it's going to work without Wireshark running. I will update. Seems HQPlyers network protocol is not very robust. (Running latest HQP beta V7). Just a wild guess from a non network engineer.

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The best thing to do in these hard cases is to contact Signalyst. I would also send them the log that HQ Player generates in case it contains any clues on the connection issue. The button that initiates the log is in HQ P Settings, but I'm not sure where the log file is located on a PC or Mac.

 

I have been in contact with Signalyst (Jussi) and he confirmed a compatibility issue with my Cisco SG 200-18 switch, he wrote:

 

"This switch is known to be problematic with microRendu...

Not as such with NAA + Cisco, but in this case with the ethernet interface of microRendu and the Cisco switch.

HP and Netgear gigabit smart switches have been working fine for me so far, in combination with microRendu."

Any chance to get this issue fixed ? I do not plan to change this switch which has been working fine for years in my setup for about anything except the Sonicorbiter in NAA mode.

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I have been in contact with Signalyst (Jussi) and he confirmed a compatibility issue with my Cisco SG 200-18 switch, he wrote:

 

"This switch is known to be problematic with microRendu...

Not as such with NAA + Cisco, but in this case with the ethernet interface of microRendu and the Cisco switch.

HP and Netgear gigabit smart switches have been working fine for me so far, in combination with microRendu."

Any chance to get this issue fixed ? I do not plan to change this switch which has been working fine for years in my setup for about anything except the Sonicorbiter in NAA mode.

 

I run a microRendu off of several Cisco switches including a SG 200-08 without any issues. I am usually running squeezebox network not HQP, I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it.

 

Another friend has a SG 300-10 and it works well with that as well.

 

Given the above I don't think it's really accurate to make a blanket statement that the microRendu has problems with Cisco switches. I would like to know what is happening here, but every time I try and look into it, there is no problem, so there seems to something more specific than just "Cisco switches". It's hard to find a solution to a problem when I can't reproduce it.

 

I would like to have some more people try running wireshark when they have these issues and try and track down what is happening. Of course the one report we have is that running with wireshark causes the problem to go away! It would be nice to have a few more attempts at this.

 

It would also be very useful to get some more information on the systems of people that have the problems, such as what computer/OS HQP is running on, what router is used on the network, is the microRendo connected to the router or another switch, and what that switch is etc. Maybe if we get enough reports of this we can start finding some correlations that will help track things down.

 

John S.

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I run a microRendu off of several Cisco switches including a SG 200-08 without any issues. I am usually running squeezebox network not HQP, I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it.

 

Another friend has a SG 300-10 and it works well with that as well.

 

Given the above I don't think it's really accurate to make a blanket statement that the microRendu has problems with Cisco switches. I would like to know what is happening here, but every time I try and look into it, there is no problem, so there seems to something more specific than just "Cisco switches". It's hard to find a solution to a problem when I can't reproduce it.

 

I would like to have some more people try running wireshark when they have these issues and try and track down what is happening. Of course the one report we have is that running with wireshark causes the problem to go away! It would be nice to have a few more attempts at this.

 

It would also be very useful to get some more information on the systems of people that have the problems, such as what computer/OS HQP is running on, what router is used on the network, is the microRendo connected to the router or another switch, and what that switch is etc. Maybe if we get enough reports of this we can start finding some correlations that will help track things down.

 

John S.

 

Dear John,

 

to be clear my issue is related to HQP ... I have no issue with this Cisco switch when I use the Sonicorbiter in Roon mode.

 

Actually I posted a question in the Roon community forum in the HQP category because I saw other people reporting issues there related to HQP and this particular switch series (Cisco SG-200). Here is the question to which Jussi replied (I made it clear that the problem was specific to HQP) :

 

"I also have an issue with HQP NAA + Sonicorbiter in combination with a Cisco SG 200-18 switch.

When the backend is set to NAA in HQ Player, the device list remains empty.

I tried my Sonicorbiter in another location with a totally different network and I could get it working either with HQP alone or Roon+HQP. But in my main setup with the Cisco switch, it does not work at all. And BTW, in this setup with a Cisco switch, Roon alone (without HQP) is working fine (and everything else is fine), only HQP/NAA is not working.

Is there a known issue with NAA in combination with Cisco switches ?"

 

 

 

Running wireshark on my PC did not change anything, it still works with Roon but not with HQP... I can do some more test and take wireshark traces if that can help (but not before the week-end).

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I would like to have some more people try running wireshark when they have these issues and try and track down what is happening. Of course the one report we have is that running with wireshark causes the problem to go away! It would be nice to have a few more attempts at this.

 

It would also be very useful to get some more information on the systems of people that have the problems, such as what computer/OS HQP is running on, what router is used on the network, is the microRendo connected to the router or another switch, and what that switch is etc. Maybe if we get enough reports of this we can start finding some correlations that will help track things down.

 

John S.

 

Thanks John.

If we can use this thread for problems regarding MicroRendu in combination with Roon and HQPlayer, I will start using this tread. I've been posting on HQPlayer tread, as well as Roon forum.

I will try wire shark and report back.

 

I'm quite sure there are some sort of network problems somewhere. And I must admit it looks like the MicroRendu may be the problem.

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Thanks John.

If we can use this thread for problems regarding MicroRendu in combination with Roon and HQPlayer, I will start using this tread. I've been posting on HQPlayer tread, as well as Roon forum.

I will try wire shark and report back.

 

I'm quite sure there are some sort of network problems somewhere. And I must admit it looks like the MicroRendu may be the problem.

 

I am using as follows:

Arris Cable Modem from Cablevision, I live in Huntington, NY (Long Island).

Eero Router to Cisco SG-200 26P. I have Cat5e running from the Cisco to

a Pakedge SE-8-EP. Running Roon Server on a Mac Mini, HQ Player on same Mini as well & mRendu. Not sure if this will help though because both the Mini and mR are connected to the Pakedge Switch. I have no drop out issues or stuttering. Prior to the Pakedge switch I was using a Paul Pang Audio Grade switch, it is a 10/100 switch not gigabit, lots off issues.

Swapped out the PP for the Pakedge all good now. I can bypass the Pakedge Switch and go directly to the mR from the Cisco and see what happens. Let me know.

Mike

Euphony Summus Server w/ a Kecces P-8A Ultra Linear PS (used for my Roon Core). Custom HDPlex Server using a Gigabyte Designare Z390 MB, i9 9900K Processor, JCAT Net Card XE, Apacer Mem and a DarkForce Audiophile NVMe Drive for Euphony. Custom Server &  Tailko dcatx are now being powered by Nenon’s ULPS. Server housed in a HDPlex H5 Case. Bricasti M-12 Controller, Bryston 4B Cubed Amp, Sonore Sig Rendu SE, Sonore Optical Module Deluxe and After Dark Emperor Giesemann EVA Clock powered by an Uptone Audio JS-2. . Uptone Audio EtherRegen w/ a Your Final System LPS.  Clearaudio Champion TT Level 1, JLTI Phono Stage, Totem Acoustic Mani-2 Sigs. Silversmith Audio XLR Cables from M-12 to Amp, Audio Magic Speaker and Power Cables, Sablon EVO USB Cable & AfterDark Ethernet Cables & DIY Ethernet Cables. QSA Fuses and Outlets.

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Wireshark installed. Is there any settings I should edit / create in wireshark ?

Is there a logfile I return to you ?

 

Unfortunately since we don't know what the protocol is there is nothing specific to look for. It has to be just generic trouble shooting.

 

What is going to be useful is comparing a setup that works with one that does not. To do this you need a setup that works, for some people it is a difference between connecting directly to the router VS to a switch, or different switch type.

 

There has been some speculation about a couple mechanisms that MIGHT be happening. One is that the DHCP server is too slow, so that is a specific thing to check. Another might have to do with a UDP multicast packet and response.

 

Unfortunately it is going to take some poking around to see what is going on.

 

John S.

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Unfortunately since we don't know what the protocol is there is nothing specific to look for. It has to be just generic trouble shooting.

 

What is going to be useful is comparing a setup that works with one that does not. To do this you need a setup that works, for some people it is a difference between connecting directly to the router VS to a switch, or different switch type.

 

There has been some speculation about a couple mechanisms that MIGHT be happening. One is that the DHCP server is too slow, so that is a specific thing to check. Another might have to do with a UDP multicast packet and response.

 

Unfortunately it is going to take some poking around to see what is going on.

 

John S.

 

So you may think it is a router issue. Hm....

When first time after a reboot of the MicroRendu or power off, the restarting of the HQPlayer version 3.4 ( in MicroRendu) takes less than 5 seconds.

 

After MicroRendu looses connection, and I perform the restart of HQPlayer (in MicroRendu) the process takes close to 2 times x 1 minute. First time I get the error 500, the second time I'm getting the green text conforming the restart has been done.

Some times I have to pull the power plug as the MicroRendu totally freezes.

 

Is is this a correct behavior ? Network related ?

 

And still I have to do reoping settings in the HQPlayer in order to have HQPlayer communicate correctly with the MicroRendu. (Even though Miska says that should not be necessary)

 

You still think it may be best to look into my network ?

Let me know if there is anything you like me to do or test.

 

At the moment HQPlayer is on a different switch, but the problem was even present when on same switch.

Behind (before) the Linksys/Cisco switch is another Cisco SG 300 managed switch. However DHCP and more is controlled by ipCop. All fixed IP,s.

 

Still as long as my Qnap with Roon core and MicroRendu and the HQPlayer PC is on the same switch, I was hoping my local network wouldn't be an issue.

Ok, my music is on a R2012 server behind the managed switch, but as long as I play Tidal, I expect we can forget about where my local rips are. Right ?

 

Can there possible be a hardware error in my MicroRendu ?

 

I must admit it is not easy to have many conversations ongoing about the same issue with several "suppliers". And it can't be easy for you or Miska or Roon to keep track either.

 

Is is there some sort of communication between Roon, HQPlayer and Sonore where you discuss issues like mine ?

Can the network protocol or what ever it could be or called, be better quality controlled between you guys?

 

It seems, at least before, that bypassing HQPlayer, will not cause these problems. Miska did not find anything in log file sent to him.

 

Roon sugested I test a PC in NAA mode. Which I did not suceeed to perform due to that HQPlayer was not able to see the NAA on my PC. Even though the NAA confirmed connection by adding two lines in its commando window. (NAA on PC same switch).

 

I'm using hiFace EVO. Can that be the source of my problem ?

 

If anyone from Roon, Miska, or the MicroRendu would like to access me setup by using TeamViewer, you are welcome.

 

You may also read my latest conversation with Miska here: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/hq-player-20293/index261.html#post584341

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So far, most common denominator between problem cases seems to be Cisco...

 

So in general loosing connection with the MicroRendu and/or HQPlayer when used with Roon, can in most cases be traced back to the switch ?

 

Hard to believe, But it's easy to find a used switch to test with. Actuality I can bypass my Cisco, and just use my wireless Asus router and test. Still my Linksys 16 port switch will be in use.

 

Any other user here that can confirm changing a switch made the MicroRendu not loosing network connection ?

 

Acording to John S. Many users use the Cisco switchs without problems. If they use with MicroRendu, HQPlayer and Roon, I do not know.

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So far, most common denominator between problem cases seems to be Cisco...

 

I did one more test excluding the Cisco switch from my network.

 

It cannot be simpler, there are only 4 devices on the network:

1) the router (Synology RT1900ac) : 192.168.0.1

2) the NAS (also Synology 1511+) : 192.168.0.25

3) my PC running either Roon or HQP : 192.168.0.165

4) the Sonicorbiter : 192.168.0.100

 

2), 3) and 4) are directly cabled into 1)

 

I first started the Sonicorbiter in Roon mode... it is working fine (it always do). No issue in this mode.

Then I set the Sonicorbiter in NAA mode and HQP still does not find the Sonicobiter.

I have the HQP log, and also the related wireshark trace. I can see that HQP does not find the NAA:

2016/09/24 14:43:53 Starting...

2016/09/24 14:43:53 Signalyst HQPlayer Desktop v3.13.3

2016/09/24 14:43:53 Engine selected:

2016/09/24 14:43:53 Windows version 6.2.9200 (2),

* 2016/09/24 14:43:53 Control server started

2016/09/24 14:43:57 libDSP version 17.1.0

2016/09/24 14:43:57 Audio engine: network

2016/09/24 14:43:57 Discovery to 224.0.0.199:43210

2016/09/24 14:43:57 Discovery from 0.0.0.0

2016/09/24 14:43:58 Discovered 0 Network Audio Adapters

 

However in the Wireshark trace I can find communications between the PC and the Sonicorbiter.

 

10 1.354656 192.168.0.100 192.168.0.255 NBNS 92 Name query NB WORKGROUP<1d>

11 1.354920 192.168.0.165 192.168.0.100 NBNS 110 Name query response NB 192.168.56.1

295 14.200122 192.168.0.100 192.168.0.165 TCP 60 80→64587 [FIN, ACK] Seq=1 Ack=1 Win=279 Len=0

296 14.200372 192.168.0.165 192.168.0.100 TCP 54 64587→80 [ACK] Seq=1 Ack=2 Win=32601 Len=0

297 14.200383 192.168.0.165 192.168.0.100 TCP 54 64587→80 [ACK] Seq=1 Ack=1 Win=32601 Len=0

299 14.372669 192.168.0.100 192.168.0.165 TCP 60 80→64588 [FIN, ACK] Seq=1 Ack=1 Win=279 Len=0

300 14.372837 192.168.0.165 192.168.0.100 TCP 54 64588→80 [ACK] Seq=1 Ack=1 Win=32768 Len=0

301 14.372859 192.168.0.165 192.168.0.100 TCP 54 64588→80 [ACK] Seq=1 Ack=2 Win=32768 Len=0

 

Note that in step 11, the comment mentions a wrong IP address that does not belong to my network : "192.168.56.1" but as it is a comment I am not sure it is relevant. It is apparently a mistyped address which should probably read 192.168.0.165...

 

I thus have here HQP/NAA that does not work without any switch (Cisco or other) in the loop.

 

I can share the traces and logs if necessary.

 

NB : in my network I have fixed IP addresses for devices in the range 192.168.0.2-99 and dynamic addresses from 192.168.0.100 and above.

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