The hunt for an excellent sounding DAC continues - help please

[One and a half]

What Dac is that?

 

Good question!

[Ralf11]

Schiit Audio Yggdrasil D/A processor | Stereophile.com

[beerandmusic]

What Dac is that?

 

the teac nt503 and the brooklyn both have galvanic isolation and support dsd...not sure about mqa

[ikaeksen]

Ps Audio's DS dac w/Bridge rocks my world in dsd128. I would recommend it to anyone. It cost a bit, but its no moving parts in it, so its woth it, its a lifetime investment.

 

 

I had the perfect system but change one component while evolving to all ‘soft’ digital media. Traded in my Wadia 830 CD Player (henceforth referred to as Wadia) for a Benchmark DAC2 HGC (BM DAC2). Not at all happy with the results – while I would rate my original system a 10 the laptop / BM DAC2 would get a 6 or a 7 tops. While i find the new system (with the BM DAC) adequate and acceptable, as the music is all there, it’s missing some of the snap, sparkle and musical nuance I experienced with the Wadia (old system). My assessment on the difference between the two (sorry as I am sure I am not using the correct audiophile language to describe this):

- The voice is more forward/pronounced in the BM DAC while more integrated with the Wadia cd player

- Ok sound stage with the BM DAC but instruments/sounds are not always distinct and the sound stage tend to break apart during fast portions of the music or multiple instruments are competing for ‘center stage’. The Wadia had a well defined and stable soundstage where I could hear every instrument distinctly no matter the music.

- The BM DAC is unforgiving to poorly recorded media – while the Wadia seemed to compensate for that somehow.

 

Now for the questions as I am trying to recapture some/all of the ‘snap and sparkle’ I had with the Wadia and hoping others have been down a similar path so can offer advice and counsel. With this evolution to digital I had to make two changes at the same time so not sure if the ‘problem’ is the source/laptop or the BM DAC.

- Source: I have already optimized the settings on the pc (windows and iTunes) so wondering if going to a high-end streamer would yield better performance? Also, if the rips are certified bit perfect by DBPowerAamp is there any advantage to re-ripping with a different ‘high quality’ system / cd drive?

- DAC: I suspect that the BM DAC has a bit more musical integrity (tries hard to dutifully reproduce the source presented) while the Wadia is purposely flavored. If that’s the case then I am hopelessly hooked on the Wadia flavoring so heading towards trying out the Wadia 321 Decoding Computer. Any recommendations on other DACs I can audition in the 2 to 4K price range?

o Side note: The BM DAC i have is actually a replacement from the manufacturer. The first had to be returned due to a defect/failed component – it played but the sound was horrible. I am thinking the replacement BM DAC is at 100% of its game/performance as what are the chances that I would get a 2^nd defected (all-be-it slightly degraded) unit?

o The current performance of the BM DAC2, in my system, does not seem to match the consistent positive reviews this units continues to get – so maybe I should get it check out by Benchmark Media Systems?

 

Background Info (optional reading)

My previous system was pretty simple – Wadia 830 cd player connectedly directly to a Music Reference RM-9 MKII tube amplifier via Kimber Silver Streak cables. The speakers are Vandersteens 2Ce bi-wired with OCOS cables. Nothing else in the signal path but everything is powered thru a PS Audio Premier power conditioner.

 

In the new system the BM DAC2 replaces the Wadia so is connected directly to the amplifier and the only other change to the system is the source. My new media source is a Lenovo x201 laptop (i5 4^th gen processor with 8GB RAM and the music on a 500GB HDD in an internal docking station (sata connection)) which connects to the BM DAC2 via USB. All the music files were ripped with an external usb cd/dvd drive using DBPowerAmp (most certified good) in AIFF format and imported into iTunes.

[Arjan70]

My Wadia based rig :-)

 

[Ralf11]

I am curious as to what ways a very expensive DAC sounds different from a merely good (under $1000) one?

 

is it soundstaging, sibilance, or what?

[barrows]

1 hour ago, Ralf11 said:

I am curious as to what ways a very expensive DAC sounds different from a merely good (under $1000) one?

 

is it soundstaging, sibilance, or what?

Generaly speaking, a really good DAC is going to do everything better than a ~$1K DAC.  Lower noise floor with better detail retrieval, both larger (deeper, wider and taller) soundstage and more precise imaging within the soundstage, better dynamic expression (macro and micro), and much better timbre.  You will find that different recordings will sound more different than before, that you can hear individual instruments (within a complex mix) more clearly and will be able to tell how individual instruments are being played better, etc, etc...

[Ralf11]

Thanks - I am looking for non-classical recordings for testing too...

 

(I have to say that my Audio Research pre-amp and better Magneplanars did a lot of the same things... with my old DAC - a Cambridge Dacmagic)

[simonklp]

3 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

Thanks - I am looking for non-classical recordings for testing too...

 

(I have to say that my Audio Research pre-amp and better Magneplanars did a lot of the same things... with my old DAC - a Cambridge Dacmagic)

 

I would speculate that with a really good DAC, you will be able to hear much more than your old DAC mentioned.

[Solstice380]

14 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

Thanks - I am looking for non-classical recordings for testing too...

 

Sheffield Labs - Drive  The booklet describes each track and what to listen for.  Great Jim Keltner drum solo too.

[Ron Scubadiver]

Get something that sounds like Schiit.  Another approach:  ESS dacs are thought to be bright, AK neutral to laid back.  TI, neutral.  YMMW

[biosailor]

I'd opt for Aqua HiFi. They have several models, starting with the La Voce to La Scala, and their top flight La Formula. They are not cheap at all, but they are very good. The entry level La Voce has now an S3 upgrade where the previous Burr Brown PCM1704 chip is now replaced with a discrete R2R ladder board. Will upgrade my LaVoce S2 to an S3 or even to a La Scala. A very good DAC!

[tapatrick]

22 minutes ago, biosailor said:

I'd opt for Aqua HiFi. They have several models, starting with the La Voce to La Scala, and their top flight La Formula. They are not cheap at all, but they are very good. The entry level La Voce has now an S3 upgrade where the previous Burr Brown PCM1704 chip is now replaced with a discrete R2R ladder board. Will upgrade my LaVoce S2 to an S3 or even to a La Scala. A very good DAC!

I have the Aqua La Voce 2,  and agree they are lovely DACs, it was my first entry into audio bliss but currently listening to a PS Audio Junior which is truly fantastic with a good I2S or SPDIF input. I still have the La Voce and heard they can be upgraded which is very tempting to have a top Aqua DAC for 1/2 the price.

No matter what some manufacturers might say about their DACs being immune to source or inputs, its not been true for me.

[biosailor]

10 hours ago, tapatrick said:

I have the Aqua La Voce 2,  and agree they are lovely DACs, it was my first entry into audio bliss but currently listening to a PS Audio Junior which is truly fantastic with a good I2S or SPDIF input. I still have the La Voce and heard they can be upgraded which is very tempting to have a top Aqua DAC for 1/2 the price.

No matter what some manufacturers might say about their DACs being immune to source or inputs, its not been true for me.

Yes indeed, it's a great DAC. I am thinking either of having the La Voce upgraded to S3, or upgrading to La Scala. Haven't made up my mind yet. Either way, it'll be a great upgrade. 

[tapatrick]

3 hours ago, biosailor said:

Yes indeed, it's a great DAC. I am thinking either of having the La Voce upgraded to S3, or upgrading to La Scala. Haven't made up my mind yet. Either way, it'll be a great upgrade. 

From a Darko post:

https://darko.audio/2018/03/aqua-hifi-announce-la-voce-s3-dac/

 

...."This week, Aqua’s lead designer/engineer Cristian Anelli makes good on the promise of the La Voce’s modularity with the announcement of an S3 board structure swaps out the PCM1704 silicon for in-house designed Discrete R-2R boards, similar to those found in the flagship Formula xHD (€13,670) and tubed-up La Scala Optologic (€6780).

"The La Voce S3 can be purchased as a new unit for €3760. Factory-fitted upgrades to existing S2 units will be charged out at €1460."

[biosailor]

19 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

From a Darko post:

https://darko.audio/2018/03/aqua-hifi-announce-la-voce-s3-dac/

 

...."This week, Aqua’s lead designer/engineer Cristian Anelli makes good on the promise of the La Voce’s modularity with the announcement of an S3 board structure swaps out the PCM1704 silicon for in-house designed Discrete R-2R boards, similar to those found in the flagship Formula xHD (€13,670) and tubed-up La Scala Optologic (€6780).

"The La Voce S3 can be purchased as a new unit for €3760. Factory-fitted upgrades to existing S2 units will be charged out at €1460."

Exactly! I was referring to Darko's announcement for the S3 upgrade. Already mailed with Cristian Anelli. I think I'll upgrade first before swapping to the La Scala as I have to buy a new power amp.