Wyred 4 Sound's Recovery USB Reclocker Findings For Audio Performance. (Curated Thread)

[REShaman]

Dear All:

 

At the behest of other CA members I am starting a new thread devoted to the W4S Recovery USB Reclocker which will make its debut in the next several weeks or sooner. I gave notice of my purchase at the W4S Dac2 DSDse thread, but a new thread as audio.bill suggested would make the availability of findings easier to find. Makes sense to me.

 

I'll repost my "post" here in its entirety, and take it from this thread all that flows. I am expecting a Recovery USB Reclocker within the month. Until then.

 

Please excuse the duplicate post, but for continuity and to start the thread off in the right direction (thank you in advance for your forbearance):

 

Dear All:

 

I decided to take advantage of the pre-order price point and ordered W4S's Recovery USBReclocker during the Holidays. While I presently employ UpTone Audio's Regen, JS-2 LPS, MMK and two AudioQuest JitterBugs what purpose do I have in ordering the Recovery?

 

That's what I intend to discover what, if anything, the Recovery will do for my Dac2 DSDse. As some member users employ two (2) Regens and have assessed an improvement, I am interested first in replacing the Regen with the Recovery and determining the outcome for the SQ. Secondly, I intend to return the Regen and employ both together, Regen and Recovery, if that is workable and determine the outcome for the SQ.

 

I won't speculate in advance what I expect. How would I know until I know.

 

The Recovery is marketed as follows: "The Recovery completely restores the original integrity of the USBsignal. Usage couldn't be simpler: just insert the Recovery between USB source and DAC and instantly enjoy the benefits of a clean signal and much improved sonic quality. This very cost-effective upgrade is sure to be the new "no brainer" in digital audio!"

 

The features are as follows:

 

• USB B input / USB A output
  
• Ultra-quiet power supply (less than 13 μvolts)
  
• Isolated 5V power output
  
• Femto clocking
  
• Small, lightweight aluminum case with laser engraving
  
• 5 year warranty
  
• Included in package: Recovery unit, USB A to B cable (Recovery to DAC), External wall-type PSU
  

 

I am doing this merely for the discovery aspect. I am not unhappy with the Regen. But it did require the AQJBs to bring into the SQ range I prefer. I am waiting to learn what the Recovery will do on its own and in tandem with the Regen and AQJB.

 

Best,

Richard

 

[REShaman]

Richard,

 

I am wondering if this device will even be necessary since the DAC2/DSD SE already has a galvanically isolated

USB input with a FEMTO clock built in. Shouldn't the DAC2 completely clean and reclock the incoming USB signal?

 

Hello,

 

Welcome to the thread. Excellent question. The Femto Clock in both the Recovery and the Dac2 DSDse perform a different function than what the Recovery USB Reclocker does for signal integrity, impedance matching, and cleaning up "noise" before the signal from the source reaches our Dacs.

 

As with UpTone Audio's Regen, the data signal sent through the USB cable and its signal integrity I.e., impediance matching is treated by the Regen. And the same outcome, I believe is intended for the Recovery. Galvanic Isolation, EFI, and jitter are not the main outcome provided by the Recovery and/or the Regen which do much of the work the Dac does and cleans up the signal.

 

However, I would prefer to pose your thoughts to EJ Sarmento, its creator, but I believe he is presently engaged at CES. I will email EJ quoting you if you don't mind and ask EJ Sarmento for a response. If you are familiar with my W4S Dac2 DSDse thread, you'll find that EJ's comments are often quoted by me with his permission when CA members ask questions best answered by EJ.

 

And I am not comfortable providing the essentials that are better responded to by EJ. With that proviso, I'll email EJ and post his response when he provides one. Hope that will suffice for the moment. I am also not very technically proficient so please take my response with that understanding.

 

And in a sentence, I am sure a response from EJ will clarify what the Recovery will do for the W4S Dac2 DSDse that makes adding it to one's system configuration. I am presupposing the Recovery's features and singular purpose is not redundant given the those specific features of the Dac2 DSDse you refer to and those feature(s) the Recovery duplicates, i.e, the Femto Clock.

 

Off the record and rather casually covered by EJ in an exchange with him after placing my order in December over the holidays for the Recovery, EJ mentioned he thought the W4S Dac2 DSDse or any other Dac would benefit from the specific function of the Recovery. But that's not quite as clarifying as I am sure EJ directed response to your query would be. And your supposition/question is a very good one in furthering one's understanding of the specificity and functional application for the Recovery USB Reclocker and intended results.

 

Thank you for posting and posing this question.

 

Best,

Richard

[REShaman]

It would be interesting if someone also got the Intona USB Isolator device and the iFi USB device and did a shootout. Richard, maybe you can get some members owning those devices to make a temporary "contribution" to your endeavors?

 

Hello firedog,

 

Welcome to the thread. I agree. Given I have a Regen and will soon have the Recovery as I am scheduled for delivery of one of the first builds scheduled to be shipped, I can assess those two.

 

And if someone would lend me an Intona USB Isolator, I would cover the cost of returning it. However, it would only be moi making the assessment, which at best are subjective.

 

I plan to remove the Regen and the two AQJBs and after a brief session listening with them. Then replace the Regen with the Recovery connected to my Dac2 DSDse with the hard adaptor supplied by UpTone Audio. Then remove the hard adaptor and replace it with the Curious 200mm USB cable for Regen being shipped to me by Rob Woodland which I purchased yesterday, admittedly based on kennyb123's assessment, and a desire to discover the possibilities. Then add one AQJB at a time. The return the Regen while leaving the Curious 200mm USB Cable in the configuration and add one AQJB at a time. And finally add the Recovery in tandem with Regen and then reverse the order, I.e., Recovery first Regen second then Regen first Recovery second. Or,

 

Am I being OCD/manic? (Smile). Rob Woodland shipped the Curious Cable yesterday. It should arrive within 7-10 days. OCD or manic or just curious (pun intended), it's interesting to rotate tweaks and discover what results ensue, if any. I'll report my findings. I have excellent acuity for audio, but at best, my findings will be subjective.

 

The more comparisons the merrier. Perhaps, Michael Lavorgna, JA, or JD (Darko) will conduct a comparison. Given the variety of assessments by CA members, there doesn't seem to be a consensus. Ultimately, one must check it out for oneself and proceed accordingly.

 

To be continued...

 

Enjoying the music,

Richard

[REShaman]

Dear All:

 

I decided to get "proactive" and emailed EJ Sarmento who has always been generous with his time and replies to my emails after I pose questions inspired by CA members who pose those questions about his components or inspired by my own interest for clarification. As this thread is devoted to the Recovery USB Reclocker, Wyred_4_Coffee's post posed what, I am sure, Others are interested in further clarification.

 

Alex and John were very forthcoming in elaborating on "exposing" with specificity the Regen's raison d'etre. I am sure EJ Sarmento will respond. And I will post his response as soon as I receive his reply to my email. I gather he must be at CES, and, therefore, don't expect him to reply until he returns.

 

To quote Dickens, "it was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, ..." A Tale of Two Cities (1859)

Take your choice. I'll make mine.

 

Enjoying the pursuit of excellence but most of all the music,

Richard

[REShaman]

Thank you for this thread.

 

So is this product analogous to the Mutec MC+? There are so many options out there I am getting confused!

 

Hello tboooe

 

Welcome to the thread.

 

I won't deepen your confusion or pretend I have a handle on the specifics of the Recovery USB Reclocker as to it primary function which I presuppose has less to do with jitter and more to do with cleaning up the signal's integrity before it reaches the Dac (less work for the Dac).

 

I suppose the Recovery and the Regen are kin in this regard. After EJ responds to my email, his comments should provide you with accurate information about the Recovery.

 

Obvously, one doesn't need to wait for EJ to respond to me. I am merely focused on making this thread a resource for reliable information about the Recovery from the creator as well as a source of findings and assessments provided by CA members who engage in employing the Recovery and who are willing to report their findings to the rest of us.

 

As a curator for my threads, I keep the those threads focused on the topic and purpose of the thread. In this way, CA members do not have to wade through irrelevancies and loose talk that create more distractions than serve our mutual interests.

 

So I'll just wait to respond to you and not mislead or guess. I looked up your specific reference; and from what I read, it doesn't appear that the Mutec MC+ and the Recovery are providing the same outcomes even if they share similar benefits on the way to their specific/targeted outcomes. Perhaps, the commonality is in the resulting SQ we appreciate after each device does what it's intended to accomplish.

 

Think signal integrity however broad that may be until EJ clarifies with specificity.

 

Thank you for your question.

 

Best,

Richard

[REShaman]

I am glad you started the thread Richard. I have the same question, it will be interesting to see what EJ has to say. I initially saw the device on the W4S website and dismissed it as doing essentially what the DAC2DSDSse is doing. I feel that the Recovery product is for people with DACs that are not sold by W4S. I have had the W4S DAC-2DSDSse for a few years and have tried some of the USB cleanup products, and felt with the DAC-2DSDSse, they either did nothing or took away from the sound. So as I wrote earlier, I am looking forward to what EJ has to say.

 

Hello JBNY

 

Welcome to the thread.

 

Obviously, the concern you expressed mirrored by several other members is a consideration that deserves further clarification. Though I did not delve into this with EJ when we exchanged emails, I did get the sense from EJ that the Recovery and the Regen share a common outcome, signal integrity. And how the Recovery and Regen differ was not discussed. But in the way that the Regen serves a better SQ, so the Recovery is intended to accomplish the same result. How they differ is a matter I'd rather not delve into as I do not want to start up something that I can neither defend nor account for to the other members. And I certainly don't want Alex and John to feel that the soon-to-be-available Recovery is being touted over the Regen arbitrarily. That remains to be discovered and by direct experience.

 

EJ did mention that he's designed it with very excellent "ingredients" (smile). So no sugars, starch, artificial ingredients, dyes. Just the best parts available. And while it might be viewed as self-serving for the creator of the Recovery to exclaim a desirable outcome with its use, I believe EJ represents whatever he advocates with honestly, sincerity and excellence, which has been my experience since 2011. And I felt confident about ordering the Recovery after our exchange.

 

I believe Alex and John have also affirmed the use of high quality internals. It will come down to, I believe, a real-time experience of both devices and an assessment for which device is preferred, if at all.

 

Some members have decided the Regen does nothing to improve their system. Others added a second Regen. Some members assessed the AQJB as taking away from the SQ, others, like myself employ two (2) AQJBs in addition to the Regen with excellent results. No consensus save the one you, I, etc. experience first hand.

 

I came away from my email exchange with EJ with an understanding that the Recovery is not redundant for the W4S Dac2 DSDse, that is, duplicates what the Dac2 DSDse already provides. And, like Regen, the Recovery adds to the ultimate performance of the Dac2 DSDse by enhancing the SQ.

 

After CES, EJ will benefit us with his first hand explanations that will hopefully give us a much better sense than marketing ads might. More to reveal.

 

Best,

Richard

[REShaman]

Richard - I believe that you should be commended for the way you are handling these inquiries, in such a professional and unbiased manner. It's all too common that some posters would make assumptions and jump to unsupported conclusions without doing the needed investigation or have first hand experience upon which to base their statements. Your straight forward and honest approach is very welcomed and much appreciated. Hopefully we can all benefit from your experience and that of other early adopters of the W4S Recovery in this thread.

 

Hello Bill,

 

Thank you for the kind words.

 

One of the best advantage of being a CA member is the resource of having a community where hobbyist/enthusiasts/innovators can assemble, share information and direct experience to give one another insight into, a leg up about, how-to, a pathway to an outcome, exposure to music.

 

I find I learn more when things go wrong then when they go right. I get more from giving than receiving. I greatly appreciate that innovators visit CA with more and more frequency to lend a leg up and allow us the benefits of personal service and support many other entities make it difficult to obtain. This exchange we participate in supports the perspective power is resource and resource is power.

 

And while I never argue with perception, I am happy to learn from and share my experience and to be part of a community that serves the pursuit of excellence and enjoyment of music. The paths to that enjoyment continues to grow in both its complicity and simplicity and variety of what's "good enough". I can't think of a better time to be involved in computer audio and look forward to what dreams may come.

 

For me, music's the thing; the equipment seduces.

 

Always enjoy chatting with you,

Richard

[REShaman]

In my communications with W4S they assured me that the recovery reclocker would provide sonic benefits on my DAC-2 DSD SE with femto clock by cleaning up the incoming USB signal. I ordered one on 12/18, but I haven't heard when they will shipping the unit other than early 2016.

 

Hello jrsub,

 

I understood the first batch of Recovery USB Reclocker units is scheduled for the end of January. If the best laid plans follow that schedule, I suppose you and I will be recovering by the beginning of February. Never too late to recover (smile).

 

And yes to signal integrity after the Recovery over USB cable to the Dac (any Dac I imagine). Given our Dac2 DSDse with all its superb features, i.e. Galvanic Isolation and Femto Clock, custom Vishay Z-Foil resistors, ultra low noise discrete regulators (100+ times quieter and faster than the stock regulator), ultra-fast recovery Schottkey diodes, premium grade inductor, Rhodium plated Furutech fuse, etc., etc., which don't duplicate what the Recovery is designed to do but which add to improving other impediments to SQ and enhance performance.

 

I experienced improvement with the Regen that were positive, but also undesirable characteristics (read change) to the SQ as in a brighter SQ which AQJBx2 ameliorated in the right direction. Not faulting the Regen, merely expressing my subjective experience which needed a recovery and the AQJB serendipitously delivered that recovery.

 

What remains to be discovered is what the Recovery USB Reclocker will do for our systems. I am hoping we will learn more "inside" information from EJ when he returns from CES and finds the time to respond to my email asking for his input to help CA members understand what to expect and what is responsible for that expectation. In the end, or perhaps more appropriately, the beginning is what we experience sensorily and determine what the Recovery actually provides.

 

"Once again, Wyred 4 Sound offers a fantastic audio product at an affordable price! Based on the success of the Remedy and known benefits of jitter reduction in a digital signal, we're proud to introduce the all-new Recovery USB reclocker. As it's name implies, the Recovery completely restores the original integrity of the USB signal. Usage couldn't be simpler: just insert the Recovery between USB source and DAC and instantly enjoy the benefits of a clean signal and much improved sonic quality. This very cost-effective upgrade is sure to be the new "no brainer" in digital audio!

The Recovery is scheduled to ship at the beginning of 2016. We will notify you and provide tracking information when your Recovery is ready to ship.

 

Picture is of prototype and subject to slight variations."

 

 

Enjoying the music in the meantime,

Richard

[REShaman]

Have they released details on what the power supply is? The only mention in the description is an "External Wall type PSU" - I assume this is a SMPS?

 

Hello dean,

 

Welcome to the thread.

 

No mention. I'll add that to my email for EJ's follow-through. Your assumption is reasonable. I'll also inquire if other than 5V is permitted, i.e. 7 or 9 volts so that I can use my JS-2 LPS unless I keep the Regen in line and then will want a better SMPS than, perhaps, what may be supplied as original PS. Good question to pose. Thank you.

 

Best,

Richard

[REShaman]

Dear All:

 

Family responsibilities are occupying EJ's time and attention, which is understandable given what our loved ones mean to us. But a response will be forthcoming. I told him we could wait for his priorities to get taken care as they should. And we'll be patient.

 

I did add several requests for additional information including Dean's query about the power supply and added my other questions about what may be substituted for what may be included as the power supply and voltage requirements and options for different settings, if possible. Etc., etc.

 

One question leads to a thousand. Hoping EJ gets back to us when it's ecological for him given his present circumstances.

 

Thank you in advance for your understanding.

 

Best,

Richard

[REShaman]

I also have the Curious USB on it's way. This will be an interesting comparison as I also run the AQJB and Regen into my DAC. Thanks for undertaking this process. Paul

 

Hello Paul,

 

Welcome to the thread.

 

That's really good news. I believe we will have an opportunity to share our findings, perhaps, made more significant because of the sample size (small or otherwise) of those of us with several components in common. Subjective elements aside, our assessments will make for a variety of experiences to compare and contrast. I am looking forward to discovering what you and several other members discern with various configurations.

 

How relevant our findings are for those members who have not yet made a commitment, at least this thread will serve as a resource for information about specific devices/components/cables. They can decide on their own whether to invest or not. Some components like the Curious Cable for USB Regen, I believe, are returnable according to Rob Woodland. At least the 0.8M full USB cable is. Alex and John allow for a return if not happy. Do have that correct? Not sure about the AQJB. Except Crutchfield has a 30 day return policy if I remember correctly. EJ's policy is otherwise or if returnable a restocking fee of 15% may apply.

 

I am getting way ahead of what is to be discovered first hand. And, I am just thinking out loud how useful our own experiences may be for others interested in taking their system a bit further into tweak land. I know the Regen and the AQJB made a significant difference for me that was positive. I am so glad I took the chance no matter what the chatter was about the application of those devices, as my direct experience enhanced my enjoyment of the music at a time when I thought I was done with tweaking. Will I ever be done?

 

Best,

Richard

[REShaman]

Looking forward to the comparisons to the Regen.

 

Hello Angular Mo,

 

Welcome to the thread.

 

Hopefully, many CA members will be posting their findings at this thread with a complement of different combinations/synergies to serve as examples of what takes us farther along that continuum to the enjoyment of music.

 

Thanks to the innovations of many creative minds, we've come a long way since I joined CA in 2011...

 

And many of those creative minds are members at CA who support us, and/or inform us.

 

Best,

Richard

[REShaman]

Dear All:

 

Let me begin by telling you EJ is getting over a cold and Is a bit pre-occupied with getting well and family health needs. All the more reason to appreciate that EJ responded to our questions at this time. I am sure further questions can be forwarded at a time when he's feeling better.

 

I requested that EJ provide us with a time line for the release of the Recovery and a comprehensive description of the details for the Recovery's application, function and implementation; furthermore, I included/forwarded specific questions embedded in several posts from CA members.

 

The following comprises EJ's chosen response at this time in its totality with some personal remarks edited out (by me) for obvious reasons.

 

Thank you, EJ, for taking the time under the present circumstances to respond to our inquiries. CA members feel free to continue to pose your questions at this thread or to email EJ directly.

 

My efforts are intended to serve the interests of CA members and spare EJ from multiple email responses.

 

Best,

Richard

 

From EJ Sarmento on The Remedy/Recovery:

"First I would like to explain the reasoning for something like the Remedy and how that affects the signal. The Remedy takes a digital input and compares 64 samples of it to ensure they are the same, once that is verified, it stores it in a small buffer and then clocks that out using the better clocking and power supply that we provide. In addition to the input jitter that is removed, we power the circuit using really quiet regulators so we can send a much cleaner signal.

The original implementation on the Remedy was for an Apple TV. I had a customer that kept urging me to fix the issue he was having with one of his ATVs. As you may know the digital output of these things are all over the place and is common for some to be acceptable and others to be so bad the DAC can't remain locked on it for more than 20 seconds. Being that we already had the re locking circuit we've been putting in Sonos connects for years, it was only natural for me to modify that circuit to suit the needs for the ATV. This is why the Remedy was born and not only eliminates the dropouts associated with the drifting clocks of the ATV but it helps provide a much cleaner signal for the DAC to process which results in better sonics.

The Remedy is a universal device that can perfect many sources such as CD transports, TV optical outputs, bluetooth streamers (our bLINK has a remedy built in it), network streamers (Sonos, Apple TVs, Bluesound, etc). Most of the benefit from the Remedy comes from the fact that all of these devices have an inconsistency about them that varies the digital signal causing jitter and clock timing issues. On some, it's from WiFi delays, signal strength or even just low quality parts.

What you gain from the Remedy can be further improved with the DAC and its Femto clock because having a better clock on the dac allows your digital to analog conversion to be more accurate. Consider the clock in the dac a heartbeat and with every cycle or ‘beat’ it decides what to do with the bits. If that cycle is loose or inconsistent, then the analog waveform will not properly mirror to what the digital signal is telling it to do. You can see that providing a steady signal to the dac is equally important to providing a steady conversion of that signal to the analog form. The DAC can only be as accurate as its clocking source (master clock) and if you provide a sloppy signal (digital input) for it to track with such a clock, it can only do so much with what it's given. On the flip side, if the signal fed to the DAC is higher quality than what the DAC is running from, then the limiting factor would be the DACs internal clock and in our case, this is where we put the femto clock in the DAC.

 

Think of it like putting poor fuel quality (poor digital signal) in a sports car (DAC with femto). Surely it will run but not like it does with high octane race gas (signal after a remedy). So bottom line is that the clocking on the DAC must be as good or better to take advantage of what you feed it, otherwise you are limiting your signal at the conversion point (digital-analog) which is most important.

Now to the USB input on the DAC. There is no doubt that we have an extremely good USB implementation on the DSDse which is galvanically isolated and for the most part immune to the computer it is connected to. However, we also have to remember that not all problems are associated with grounding or power rail noise, they are important but not our only concern. Similar to the Remedy, the Recovery intercepts the signal between the DAC and computer to not only isolate and provide clean power but to also supply a much more precisely clocked source for the USB encoded data. This results in a pre-conditioning of the signal before the DAC can take it and utilize its parts which allow it to perform better.

 

In some cases, the improvements with the Remedy and Recovery can be black and white but really depends on the ability of the system as a whole to expose such signal improvements in what is being sent.

 

In regard to the power supply:

 

We will be including a SMPS as we do for our other small products but that is another upcoming addition to the line. We have been asked for years to develop an upgraded supply and I suspect that will be coming in the very near future. The Recovery will use a 9v supply but can utilize anything from 7-10v without a problem. Inside the unit is where most of the critical power supply filtering and regulation is happening."

[REShaman]

Interesting stuff!

 

The part about the need for a more precisely clocked source for USB encoded data seems to contradict with what Daniel of Intona wrote:

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/which-one-buy-uptone-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-regen-or-intona-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-isolator-26815/#post493372

 

 

Who to believe?

 

BTW. Is the galvanic isolation of the DSDse implemented "in full" so before the USB receiver in the DSDse or performed later upstream in the circuit (for example in an I2S or FPGA link)?

 

Hello devs,

 

Welcome to the thread.

 

I'll pass on your "BTW. question re galvanic isolation of the DSDse..." to EJ as you posed it verbatim.

 

As for "Who to believe?", I presume that's a rhetorical question that begs an answer. I am not competent technically to comment either way. And, for an answer, I'll leave you to pose that to EJ if you care to.

 

Thank you for your post.

 

Best,

Richard

[REShaman]

Hello Richard,

 

Thank you for your reply. English is not my native language so sorry if my question came across as a rhetorical one, it wasn't meant to be/sound like one. I'm honestly curious as to why opinions differ this much on that subject. Of course W4S is a more audiophile driven company and Intona more science/technology driven for industrial applications so perhaps both are right to some degree.

 

Of course you're not responsible to provide any answers, it's just a thought I wrote down as I, like many, am looking for all the right pieces of the puzzle to great sound. All is open to voluntary discussion

 

Thanks again, I'm sure it'll all become more clear to me one day.

 

Best regards,

 

devs

 

Hello devs,

 

Ah the nuance of language. And the inadequacies of communication exchanged in posts.

 

I may have caused some miscommunication between us. So allow me to do some cleaning up by restating what the meaning of my communication intended.

 

I thought by adding "that begs an answer" (or would it have been better to write "deserves") to your question as being a legitimate concern of interest and (deserves) clarification to better comprehend different perspectives offered by creators who innovate and create computer audio devices designed to address a specific outcome/result/refinement in the rendition of the enjoyment of music.

 

Often, innovators approach a technology with differing perspectives about how-to and what is (are) the solutions to implement that perspective and outcomes that we, then, assess with a variety of discernments that may result in agreement or differentiation. What to believe? Perhaps the answer is delivered by one's own discernment. And which path to that outcome to support is also challenged. Do we wait for others to pave the way? Reviews to consider.

 

I, in no way, meant to convey your question as it pertains to the Daniel of Intona USB Isolator perspective versus EJ's of The Recovery USB Reclocker pespective as an exercise in rhetoric or bringing it into the mix as rhetorical (as a definition: Full Definition of rhetorical. 1 a : of, relating to, or concerned with rhetoric b : employed for rhetorical effect; especially : asked merely for effect with no answer expected <a rhetorical question>)

I never questioned the legitimacy of your curiosity. As to what accomplished innovators differ, I would not hazzard a guess. That in my view is the norm through the computer audio industry and technology.

 

And the purpose of this thread is to focus on the Recovery to explore what it does, how it does it, does it do it, and what we CA members assess how with sensory specificity and whether or not it delivers the intended result.

 

Provided the post don't drift off into OT topics and posts that often result, it will be acceptable to offer comparisons between the Recovery when it is shipped and experienced and the Regen and the Intona if apples to apples are being compared. Now there is also a Disruptor (what a name for a device - not inviting to my sensibilities - disrupt? How about something to be desired as in something positive...).

 

devs, I have forwarded one of your questions/concerns to EJ. And as to the Intona vs the Recovery, as I previously wrote, I'll leave you to discover what accounts for the difference in approaches and the validity.

 

I know you did not expect an answer from me. It was my feeble attempt to acknowledge that my competencies do not include technological expertise and knowledge in the realms that innovators like EJ and others participate with excellence in my opinion.

 

So there it is, devs.

 

Best,

Richard

[REShaman]

Ordered a Recovery USB this weekend. I use the W4S Dac2 DSDse in my office headphone machine, and do love it. I have the STP preamp (with stage 2 upgrades) in my home system, and currently use a DIY DAC4.1. It only does 16/44 officially, I think the SPDIF receiver chip will accept up to 18/96.

 

I am contemplating both the Yggy and the new Bryston BDA-3 to replace the DAC4.1. The connectivity on the BDA-3 would be perfect for my setup, and accepts/natively processes DSD input.

 

I figure that getting the Recovery unit will keep my little DIY fanless music server going for awhile (using the motherboard USB ports) It will need upgrading at some point. Kind of waiting on the next CAPS rendition.

 

Hello Bones13,

 

Welcome to the thread.

 

Given the ambition EJ has for the Recovery, I imagine that any system even highly resolving systems will benefit from a device that treats the quality of the signal sent from source to Dac and improves it to be a welcome addition.

 

I was very happy with my system before the Regen arrived on the scene. Before the JS-2 LPS/MMK. There were other tweaks I added that addressed other negative contributors like EMI that affected the ultimate SQ that were affected with a positive result, in my opinion. And,

 

With the Regen, a pleasant surprise that improved and changed the quality of the SQ. The AQJB remedied the change brought about by the Regen back to where I would prefer the SQ to sound like. With the potential for what the Recovery may deliver -- to be discovered when released -- I am eager to introduce the Recovery to my system which I am presently enjoying and discern what if anything is recovered that was lost (a little tongue and cheek or too much depending).

 

Really looking forward to what magic EJ has created given my history with W4S's components that are essentially my system. Birds of a feather?

 

Enjoying the music,

Richard

[REShaman]

I have question for those that have experience using similar devices to the Recovery such as the Regen. I have 2 USB cables, an AQ Diamond and an AQ Cinnamon. Is the best position for the better USB cable between the Recovery and the DAC, or between my mac-mini and the recovery? Am I negating the sonic benefits of my AQ Diamond cable by having the AQ Cinnamon in the mix? Maybe I need 2 AQ Diamonds, or maybe with the Recovery the USB cables do not matter as much. Thoughts?

 

Hello jrsub,

 

I'll pass your query on to EJ for an informed opinion, should he care to opine.

 

For myself, I ordered the Curious USB Cable for Regen 200mm given kennyb123's assessment that the CC aided the SQ when replacing the hard adaptor between the Regen and one's Dac. And between source and the Regen is a Light Harmonic LightSpeed. When the Recovery arrives, I intend to assess the Recovery's output in a variety of configurations.

 

Whatever EJ might opine, I believe, it's a matter of checking it out sensorily to determine what configurations sound the best. Isn't it always what your discernment informs?

 

Best,

Richard

[REShaman]

Thank you for posting the reply from EJ. The paragraph I quoted above, to me, is what the unit will do with for our DAC-2DSDse. EJ's response in the earlier paragraphs is mostly about how cleaning up a SPDIF digital stream can be done and it's usefulness in digital audio. I think it is important for people to understand, as does EJ, which is evident from how he crafted his response. That an async USB is entirely different from an SPDIF stream, in that a digital stream which is dependent on clock and jitter can have a real effect on sound. Not so in USB where there is no stream only packets that contain both the order that they are to be assemble and a CRC check in the packet to ensure it it perfect. Once those are received from the DAC without error (virtually 100% of the time in this day and age) the music will be reproduced from the DAC with zero error.

 

Don't get me wrong I feel that the W4F recovery product has merit and can be a benefit in systems that suffer from excessive noise that could effect packed transmission. Of course that benefit will be system dependent and will most likely make a difference for those using a full blown PC/MAC to process their audio collection. Some of the newer appliance based audio products will probably benefit less from something like this, but that of course remain to be see when the actual product arrives in our hands.

 

Looking forward to people receiving the W4S Recovery and commenting on how it works in their system.

 

Hello JBNY,

 

It would take an EJ to address your perspective. And quoting the marketing copy from his website, which I am about to do, is a poor substitute for what EJ might answer in response.

 

Yes it was quite apparent; and I noticed that EJ commented on the Remedy as well as the Recovery though I asked him specifically about the Recovery, but then, EJ comments as he chooses. I am just the messenger.

 

Are there any parallels between the Recovery's function/purposes and that of UpTone Audio's inclusion of the Regen (raison d'être) in one's system that you regard as a valuable application for signal integrity which I get is the function/purpose for the Recovery in the first instance and not merely the mitigation of Jitter?

 

The copy at W4S's website reads as follows:

 

"Once again, Wyred 4 Sound offers a fantastic audio product at an affordable price! Based on the success of the Remedy and known benefits of jitter reduction in a digital signal, we're proud to introduce the all-new Recovery USB reclocker. As it's name implies, the Recovery completely restores the original integrity of the USB signal. Usage couldn't be simpler: just insert the Recovery between USB source and DAC and instantly enjoy the benefits of a clean signal and much improved sonic quality. This very cost-effective upgrade is sure to be the new "no brainer" in digital audio!"

 

I regard that as the crux of the purpose for the Recovery as it is for the Regen, if I have that right. And jitter reduction is not the primary outcome sought but I imagine reducing it also contributes to the signal integrity. Again I am relying on what Alex and John have espoused as the purpose of the Regen. And as concluded by EJ: the Recovery intercepts the signal between the DAC and computer to not only isolate and provide clean power but to also supply a much more precisely clocked source for the USB encoded data. This results in a pre-conditioning of the signal before the DAC can take it and utilize its parts which allow it to perform better.

 

In either case, I've asked EJ to clarify the function and purpose of the Recovery so that we CA members have a comprehensive understanding of what the Recovery is intended to do for (to) our systems and how that enhances our enjoyment of the music.

To be discovered essentially when the Recovery arrives and we discover for ourselves.

 

Best,

Richard

[REShaman]

Dear All:

 

To be clear, I have been forwarding your questions and concerns to EJ Sarmento so that both we and he might conduct a dialogue of sorts as it concerns the Recovery, its purpose and function.

 

Of course, one is free to contact EJ directly. I am doing so to support this thread and the membership as well as to learn as much as I can having placed an order on faith alone and not knowing in advance whether or not the Recovery will.

 

I have taken pains to let EJ know how much appreciated his comments are and the value of opening a dialogue with CA members if that suits him. In the past, EJ has only responded to my emails when they arrive and has not volunteered to post here or even join CA as far as I know. His comments then are what he chooses to relate.

 

With Alex and John, the channels are wide open and frequent. But I do not believe EJ has the time to maintain a similar relationship with us.

 

Wyred4Sound is a small (very) company and highly focused on the business and development. I imagine, though, those of us who have called or email get his attention as EJ is conscientious and highly principled in my experience. i have been a customer since 2011 so over the years have been able to accomplish several upgrades to my system and with it a friendship from a distance. I have been treated very well by him as I am sure have others. That's his way.

 

My last email to him asked rather pointedly if I was becoming a pest by emailing rather frequently these days specifically about the Recovery. From time to time, I like to check in to discover what's in the works for the future.

 

I still don't know precisely when to expect my Recovery. I am sure as is typical of W4S, an email will arrive one day with a tracking number and then I'll know with specificity when to expect to the Recovery.

 

I am backing off a bit from now on having given EJ with enough nudges for information and let him find the right balance to suit how he does things. I have the highest regard for EJ based on actual experience and have not needed to use my imagination.

 

In the interim, I'll keep ripping my music collection which is nearing 10,000 albums. I am also expecting the Curious USB Cable for Regen 200mm this week if all goes as planned. There's always something to do. Mostly, I am enjoying the music, which for me is the best part.

 

Feel free to post here and especially with your findings when your Recovery arrives; and you've had the time to assess what the heck the Recovery actually accomplishes. Make your enjoy a full Recovery in whatever sense of the word and experience.

 

The music's the thing; the equipment seduces,

Richard

[REShaman]

Dear All:

 

Perfect timing given what each of our lives demand/require from us. What we have time for; and what we make time for is a matter of priorities. Perhaps what connects us to music also connects us to family, friends, our life's work in an order designed by the individual.

 

Just after posting my earlier post below, my email bell rang; and who should drop by, but EJ. I am happy to share his thoughts if only to add further depth to who EJ is and how he goes about spending his time. One tidbit, the shipment date should be a welcome bit to bite on, n'est-ce pas? Editing by me was done to a minimum, but for obvious reasons, so your understanding in that regard is appreciated. I believe you can a sense of EJ from this posting. Of course, I appreciate that the interest is in the Recovery's performance and viability. EJ's not one to boast or plug comparisons, preferring for us to determine that through direct experience and then appreciates the feedback provided which, I am sure, he assesses for its applicability.

 

Any further comments of substance, I will post.

 

So without further ado...

 

(emphasis within EJ's comments is mine)

 

Best,

Richard

 

From EJ Sarmento:

 

"Hello Richard,

 

My pleasure and wish I could be quicker at getting back to you and will do my best. I usually work about 50-60hours a week so try to break away on the weekends to spend quality time with my family. Try to keep the little ones remembering who I am J.

 

I would love to be more connected with these forums but simply don’t have the time of day, I think the biggest difference between the uptone guys and I is the amount of customers and support I must offer. Also, the complexity of the products we offer really escalates the time involved with such interactions. Would love for more time in the day to allow me to do this but like digital audio, time is my worst enemy J Because of all of this, I really do appreciate what you are doing here and is totally something not expected but very appreciated!

 

I have some employees that help me manage the email flow but our customer base is very knowledgeable and are always asking questions that most of my help cannot answer so I find myself spending considerable time supporting these requests. Regarding the Recovery, I’m hoping this product will get some legs like the Remedy and start selling well but also understand that the Regen and others have already made a splash in the market, so not sure what the market really has in store for us. Hoping to sell at least 1kpcs of them this year since such a small margin in them.

 

We plan to start shipping Recovery’s by Jan 22nd and because we are producing these in-house, hoping to fill all open orders by the end of the month.

Like other products, we all make dacs, preamps, amps, etc. It is really the parts choice and design layout that differentiates the brands and how well they perform. The Recovery uses our principals of design along with careful impedance matched routing while also using better parts than the others. The main improvement we have of the others is the quality of our clocking and the cleanliness of our power supplies.

 

The DSDse USB interface is fully galvanically isolated but this is after the USB interface which is why power to the USB input is needed for the product to operate. Inside the dac is where the galvanic isolation happens on the I2S lines that feed the DAC. The Recovery will not only add a more regular stream of data to the USB receiver of the DAC but also cleaner power for its circuit to run on.

 

I plan to promote this product as we do others. We offer quality products that all customers can appreciate and I never wish to be the one banging on the table to dictate what others should buy – just don’t believe in that mentality. I do have good belief that most of the customers spread their experiences and feedback that do this for me in the proper way and this has been overly positive in the past which I work for/hope to continue. We are working to get some of these reviewed soon so we can have the publications follow up on the feedback of the product.

 

I appreciate your ability to monitor and feed the forum. I’m assuming the person that posted that had called and talked with Tony about how the Recovery is better. This is true but I don’t particularly like to do that mine is better than yours in forums, etc. I think that is better left for the consumers to do. These forums can consume ones time and once the chatter and arguments start it really goes sour quick and probably because most people can/will type things they might not say on the phone.

[REShaman]

Thanks Richard,

 

I have had conversations in the past with EJ, I have always found him both frank and candid in his conversation with me. I have had EJ tell me when and if an upgrade makes sense, and has even told me more than once when he felt I should NOT buy one of their products as it would most likely make no sonic difference in my system.

 

Yes, the describes the EJ I know too. And I would also add that what has now included in upgrades was not until I asked him if he would apply the same display to one of my other components. He did so at no charge and then decided to include that as a standard upgrade feature.

 

Another story about EJ concerns the same upgrade involving the display upgrade which required a different lucite window for the display. Wyred4Sound ran out of the specific lucite window, had them on re-order from a third party supplier whose machine to fabricate the lucite window broke. A part was required to be shipped from Japan. A week went by -- any day now so the supplier claimed. Weeks went by. Not that big a deal if my preamp wasn't at W4S awaiting the last step in the upgrade. After 4 weeks, EJ made a custom lucite window on one of his lathes by his own hand. I have the only STP-SE Stage 2 preamp with a green tinted lucite window fabricated by EJ.

 

That's the EJ I know.

 

Best,

Richard

[REShaman]

Dear All:

 

Practice makes perfect: I followed through with better-formed questions I posed to EJ for additional comments in response to "my interview" like email to illicit specific information that may be helpful for those members who would appreciate information to assist in reaching a purchasing decision or merely to further an understanding of the Recovery's function and purpose. As in every case, the better the formed question posed the more purposeful the answer.

 

In substance, as with the Regen's efficacy with any/most Dac models, EJ's comments should apply in general. With the exceptions that if a Femto Clock or in-kind or galvanic isolation feature is not present in one's Dac model, that might account for a different outcome (by comparison) when the Recovery is inserted into one's system configuration.

 

Part III to follow immediately after so that the chunk size of each comment can be ingested easily.

 

Thank you EJ for your time. And to the membership for your attention. Hope these comment sessions are helpful.

 

Best,

Richard

 

PS

Any edits are for similar purpose and refer to the body of the email not to EJ's comments. The comments below are unedited as are all EJ's comments.

 

From EJ, Part II:

 

For those of you with a DSDse, the Recovery will surely improve the quality in several ways. Most importantly, the DAC is interpreting data as it comes to it. Any irregularity in streams can be heard as a shift in tone or a change in attack or decay because of the way that waveform might be distorted (condensed or extended) because of the timing error in the signal coming to the DAC. Because the USB board is already completely isolated from the DAC, it benefits us to provide better power the USB clocks and a more reliable signal to keep our timbre in better shape. Timing is key to any transition which is also very true about converting digital bits to an analog waveform.

 

Because the DSDse already employs a Femto clock for its internal clocking, its baseline for accuracy is only improved when you can now feed a tightened up signal for conversion. The clocking in the DAC has no control over when or how it receives its signal from the sources, so perfecting that allows the DAC to shine even more. The DSDse’s internal jitter elimination works by oversampling the signal to break it down to much smaller clocks than what is being sent, this allows the DAC to detect the falling/rising edges much closer than if we were operating at the same rate and can for the most part, eliminate discrepancies in time. The internal clock accuracy and jitter elimination of the DAC can mitigate some of the input jitter and does a great job of it but is no replacement for correcting it before becoming a problem and correcting for what fallout you might still have between the unfit signal and jitter elimination clocking.

 

Regarding which unit to employ, the Recovery has a much more accurate clock and power supplies at the very least . The Regen is a great product but I naturally feel our circuit is superior. We hope others can understand our intent with developing this product was merely to provide to our customers who are seeking an improved USB implementation. Thank you for your notes and indeed you found us through reviews and I do feel that you still receive positive results from our products and we plan for the recovery to do the same.

[REShaman]

Dear All:

EJ's comments in Part III are in response to a member's (jrsub) question about the quality of the cabling between source and the Recovery and between the Recovery and Dac. I have been forwarding questions as they arrive in posts at this thread. Hence, the serial progression of comments.

 

In eleven (11) days, on or about January 22nd, the Recovery should start shipping to the early adopters. After I receive my Recovery, I will post my findings when I have had enough time to experience the various configurations. I am looking forward to the findings from other members. Thank you, EJ. And CA members for your post, questions and comments.

 

Best,

Richard

 

From EJ, Comments Part III:

 

Regarding the cable, the best bet would be the shortest possible length between the Recovery and DAC. Ideally, the Recovery would be on the same PCB as the DAC USB input so less than 0.5M would be ideal. We are going to ship a 6” cable with the unit to be used in this position and the other cable that is already in the DAC can now feed the Recovery on the other end.

 

I believe distance and impedance is the most important after the Recovery so shy of using a hard connection adaptor (which I don’t like due to added stresses it inflicts), the shorter cable is ideal. If you have 2 cables near the same length but one better quality than the other, then use the better one after the Recovery. There will be so many options for this connection point so the user will ultimately need to be happy with the decision that is made with it. In the meantime, we are looking into making some very short PCOCC USB cables for this specific use.

 

Thank you,

EJ

[REShaman]

Dear All:

 

Just to stay in touch and keep a pulse on the plans made, I asked EJ if his schedule for shipping on January 22nd is realistic. He replied as follows:

 

"...looking good on my end. I will check on a few things to confirm but looking positive."

My outcome is merely to keep in touch and provide feedback that the schedule remains on track as published in earlier posts.

 

Best,

Richard

[REShaman]

Dear All:

 

While WFI (waiting for it), and the special parts are arriving and getting assembled while I write this post (just imagining -- smile), what should arrive? That's correct!

 

The Curious USB Cable for Regen 200mm arrived by USPS late this afternoon. Curiously (pun intended) the tracking number, the one that has been torturing me since January 9th alerting me to the CCFR's stalled location at a facility in Hoboken, NJ continues to display the same information but for the Cable located in my hands. So much for tracking numbers and cooperation with AUS POST and USPS. But Rob Woodland's guidance about delivery times (between 7-10 days) was accurate. For me, it took 9 days from the time the CCFR was shipped on 01-09-16.

 

This allows me a head start with a new connector for the Regen replacing the hard adaptor that connects the Regen to my W4S Dac2 DSDse, which I will accomplish as soon as the cable reaches room temperature. I will have a week or so of listening to the Regen/CCFR before the Recovery USB Reclocker arrives.

 

If you're interested in photographs visit the Curious Cable Thread in General Forum, where I posted several. Didn't want to duplicate the photographs in multiple threads.

 

Enjoy the music,

Richard