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MQA at CES


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Are you wondering what MQA is? There are 83 threads here that mention MQA, and 13 threads that have the term in their title. Read on and get educated.

 

I heard a demo of it at last years CES and was unimpressed as they (Meridian) did no a/b (or engaged/disengaged) comparison. But some who've heard it's merits are pleased with the results. It may show its strength mostly in streaming services.

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I would love to be wrong about my impressions of MQA, and in fact they are very minimal impressions so far. I will walk the halls of CES starting tmrw (mostly Venetian, some South Hall stuff) and sure to sit in on all that is MQA. Anything that can wipe away another layer of haze is good for me...although I often enjoy music when there is a haze. :)

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Though oddly the Aries Mini does have a built in DAC...at least mine does...

 

Auralic's DACS (Vega and the one in the Mini) are not the point here. Their DACs are not MQA-capable. The issue is that Auralic was told that software-encoded and-decoded MQA (for front end players/streamers like Aries to decode MQA and send to generic dacs) would be ready for production now..and Auralic announced it for 3.0. That schedule is now put on hold, cuz MQA has realized that doing generic decoding is more problematic than their MQA-capable dac program (MQA-capable DACS like Mytek Brooklyn have very dac-specific MQA decoding algortihms). Makes sense (what if target generic 24/192 dac can't do sample rate that MQA streamer decodes into, like 2L's DXD stuff), but pretty late to be making the decision when partners have already announced and prepped their hardware.

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Thanks for clarifying Ted, do you mean that their DACS are currently not MQA capable? In other words that one day they could be?

 

I understand the other points.

 

Barr, dunno the answer. I am not aware of what is entailed to be an MQA-capable DAC, let alone retrofit a non-MQA one. My understanding is that the decoding software is quite tailored to the specific dac. My $.02 says it's not just firmware.

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After Auralic's new Facebook comments I'm really confused . The Mini has

A dac .

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/mqa-ces-27127/index12.html#post500444

 

The comment in Facebook is listing those streamers (which inlcudes Mini) that were to have generic MQA decoding, which would send decoded music to a normal non-MQA-DAC. And yes, Mini also has a DAC. That dac (and Vega) are normal DACs, which would require a front end like Aries (included in the Mini) to decode MQA before they process the music.

 

I heard the MQA demo at CES, and spoke at length to folks like Michal at Mytek, part of the demo room. The confusion is that MQA has now realized that providing manufacturers like Auralic with generic software decoding (unlike Mytelk's dac-based one) doesn't yet include settings for targeted normal dacs. Example: your dac is a 24/192 PCM dac. You pick a 2L MQA'd track from Tidal and have Aries decode it. What happens? The decoded material is 24/352.8k! Clearly the Tidal settings on Aries would require a "24/192 max" setting, which is currently unavailable in the demo product (and then a decision on who/where this downsampling work occurs). There are likely other scenarios too.

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Roon for example would be able to decode MQA in soft and if the resulting pcm is 24/358 it ought to be able to downsample to 24/192 when the DAC has a max of that. I think Aries does the same but don't recall exactly.

 

No, Aries does not downample MQA'd material; that is one of the pieces still needed (as I documented in my Auralic CES mini-interview post). I would not get so negative on MQA; there are hosts of product rollout re-schedule examples in our computer audio world, let alone the software world in general. Marketing is always ahead of development. From what I saw (didn't hear in a/b, so the concept was mostly visual) seeing a Tidal-chosen track end up on a Mytek Brooklyn at 24/352.8k was pretty promising (assuming it wasn't just an upsampling trick, which it wasn't). The proof is in both the listening and then the availability to us "I already own a dac; not buying a new one" owners.

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MQA vs DSD 64/128/256 there is no competition..

 

DSD wins

 

I'm confused by this logic. Wins what? I am a huge DSD fan (of course) but there is no reason that this is a competition. There's a million high rez PCM tracks out there. MQA potentially allows us end users to subscribe to a relatively low bandwidth streaming service like Tidal and get high rez at the dac end (currently MQA dacs but that is likely short term as they get software decoding approaches worked out). Are you saying you've tested Tidal doing DSD? Of course not. Where does DSD fit in with a competing business plan of MQA?

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Miska,

 

I have noticed a number of end users here who use a combo of your HQPlayer and Roon to get good results with Tidal. Could you explain to us what happens if/when Tidal goes all in on MQA (with a software decoder of some sort) and how that effects HQPlayers ability to stream Tidal?

 

99% of Tidal's subscribers will care less about MQA, so it will be an option (as it is now). Furthermore, once MQA gets their software decoding shit together Roon's Tidal MQA output may well be already decoded...and ready for HQPlayer's upsampling/filters/modulators.

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After reading computer audiophile newest article detail about MQA it confirms my already suspicions about MERIDIAN vs AURALIC who embarrassed AURALIC and the truth will come out sooner then you think. STILL NOBODY can answer the question what an MQA approved DAC or streamer really is!!!??

Please advise.

 

Computer Audiophile - CES 2016 Wrap-up

 

STILL NOBODY (he says loudly)? What do you mean? It has been mentioned dozens of times that an MQA-capable DAC is one, like Mytek's Brooklyn for example, where the MQA decoding board is in the dac, has specific filtering for that dac, and the dac is capable of processing all decoded MQA sample rates. That is what MQA is standing by right now (point to point). The more generic MQA signal path would be the MQA-capable streamers, and Auralic Aries is a perfect example of that, where more generic decoding is done (due to the fact that streamers can send audio to virtually any UAC2-capable DAC). Auralic had already implemented this and was ready to release, not without huge MQA questions unanswered, like when I asked Xuanqian Wang (Auralic CEO) what happens if the downstream dac can't handle the decoded file's sample rate. In the normal purchased download world, the user would either downsample or just not buy the file...in Tidal world that is a bit different and requires someone in the chain to do some downsampling, an effort not usually associated with streamers.

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Thank you Ted b for your expert knowledge on this subject but I believe there is more to the story. Auralic was prepared with MQA firmware streamer upgrade which Auralic already encoded with their streamer.

 

Um...that is exactly what I said. In what way is there more to the story? Auralic was told not to release MQA cuz late into the cycle MQA realized they didn't have all the issues resolved (like the one I mentioned several times about general dac sample rate compatibility). Auralic had the MQA stuff ready very quickly; they are a smart company with a dozen developers. I don't think one should read any more into it, unless gossip and hearsay is your thing. Or is Auralic telling you something we should know; something they didn't tell me when I spoke with them last week at CES?

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I know the Aries is able to transcode DSD to PCM if the DAC does not handle DSD. I would expect the Aries to transcode a higher PCM file to the max PCM rate if the DAC does not handle it - I seem to recall I checked that.

 

 

 

Nope, otherwise he wouldn't have agreed with me. The Aries will only to DSD-to-PCM (once DoP is turned off in settings) at a 24/352.8k sample rate, so to do that a DAC needs to play 24/352.8k...a sample rate that doesn't affect my question to him (which was 24/92 or below..hence my question).

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My overall take on this pre-release: since Tidal is a month-to-month service, I'll wait til one of my devices becomes MQA-capable, then simply pony up for 30 days (assuming Tidal has an MQA premium service) and check out both MQA-enhanced hirez and MQA-deilvered existing hirez. If it ain't worth it I'm out less than the cost of a hirez download.

 

And even if MQA doesn't soon follow through on their upstream device program, Michal will send me a Brooklyn to hear and I will report back on it (and the above 30 day idea).

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  • 2 weeks later...
There are already more than 400 different DACs supporting DSD.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GPtrINDXXFW9Nm7A7YJ6Jsiu54hKXD7vUmrAbtwrSG0/edit?pref=2&pli=1#gid=0

 

How many DACs are there with MQA? Two?

 

Yes, Jesus and I have a real difficulty keeping that database anywhere near up to date. Brian has jumped on to help, which is appreciated. Net/net, unless the dac is a multibit (ladder) it usually is now designed to accept DSD. Note: I still can't figure out how MSB's ladders support DSD, but oh well. :) Glad they do.

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