2016 Dead pool

[Paul R]

You get to choose what companies you patronize, of course, but for me, just because I don't like Jay-Z's music or lyrics (and since I rarely pay attention to contemporary pop lyrics, the music is more significant to me), that's not sufficient reason for me to boycott Tidal. For one thing, hip-hop is hugely popular worldwide, and it really doesn't matter what anyone over 45 thinks about that — it's not going to change things one iota. For another, there's a free speech issue — I may not agree with what you say, yadda, yadda. And perhaps most important, he said sheepishly, Tidal's selling a service I really, really want.

 

I'll vote with my feet if I think a corporation's behavior is especially egregious (Hobby Lobby, for example, meets my criteria), but Jay-Z's being a part owner of Tidal doesn't pass the boycott test. If it did, I'd have to change my bank, my investment strategy, the food chains I patronize, the football team I root for (though I'm almost there on that one), and on and on. Plus, I'd need to do a lot more research to find out if all the management teams' values were in accord with mine. Jay-Z doesn't need my sympathy, but in this case, he's an easy target because he's a celebrity.

 

--David

 

(grin) Seriously? I see your point, and there is nothing wrong with putting your money into services you want. Perfectly okay. I am sure there are things you refrain from supporting, just because you don't want to support them.

 

-Paul

[TubeLover]

as for dead pool...the size of goal tenders equipment in hockey

 

Lets hope!

 

JC

[TubeLover]

It's pretty easy to use Tidal and ignore the music you don't like. I basically ignore all their recommendations, etc. that come up when you first load it. Occasionally listen to something just to see if there is any new music I might like.

 

Basically I use it to listen to albums (old or new) I hear about on this site and other places, or to complete my catalog with releases by an artist I like but who has albums I haven't bought (and may never buy, either).

 

It's great, because I can legally try music on my good system that's new to me without any monetary loss if I don't like it.

 

Well said, Firedog. I don't have to deal with any recommendations or anything else from Tidal on my Aurender. The very slick interface simply allows me to plug in an artist and listen to what I want. I use it to audition albums I might want to buy. To listen to things I don't have in my collection, and to familiarize myself with other potentially interesting new music that I have read reviews of, etc. It will be a massive blow to my music listening of Tidal somehow fails and I prefer to not even ponder the possibility.

 

JC

[TubeLover]

I clearly don't subscribe to Tidal*, but not because I have technical objections, I just really don't like Jay Z and I am not a fan of a great deal of the music they promote.

 

(*I did subscribe for a month.)

 

On the other paw, while not lossless, I cannot hear a difference between streamed FLAC files from Tidal, and streamed AAC files from Apple. And Apple Music has a much larger catalog to choose from. For me at least, Apple Music works better than Tidal. YMMV!

-Paul

 

While I don't support Jay Z, or his music, he didn't create Tidal, he simply bought it. I suspect there are many people who own large companies that we might not like the views or actions of, but we simply are not aware of it.

 

As far as Apple streaming quality, Paul, while I certainly respect your right to your personal opinion, I've listened back to back with Tidal and Apple, on a friends setup, and found the gulf between the sound quality of the two hugely in Tidal's favor. Even in a purely technical sense, it could not be otherwise when you are comparing Tidal's lossless "cd quality" FLAC streaming and Apple's AAC MP garbage. To be honest, can anyone make a case for Apple EVER doing anything right associated with the sound quality of music? To my mind, they have damaged the music industry, and by default, any of us who truly care about music almost beyond imagining. If iPods had never existed, at least in the case of the MP3 sonic swill they made into a mainstream music format for completely non-discerning teenagers and young adults, I suspect cd's, with the addition, more recently, of high definition digital files, would represent the primary source of new music sales, and we would all be the better for it.

 

JC

[Paul R]

While I don't support Jay Z, or his music, he didn't create Tidal, he simply bought it. I suspect there are many people who own large companies that we might not like the views or actions of, but we simply are not aware of it.

 

As far as Apple streaming quality, Paul, while I certainly respect your right to your personal opinion, I've listened back to back with Tidal and Apple, on a friends setup, and found the gulf between the sound quality of the two hugely in Tidal's favor. Even in a purely technical sense, it could not be otherwise when you are comparing Tidal's lossless "cd quality" FLAC streaming and Apple's AAC MP garbage. To be honest, can anyone make a case for Apple EVER doing anything right associated with the sound quality of music? To my mind, they have damaged the music industry, and by default, any of us who truly care about music almost beyond imagining. If iPods had never existed, at least in the case of the MP3 sonic swill they made into a mainstream music format for completely non-discerning teenagers and young adults, I suspect cd's, with the addition, more recently, of high definition digital files, would represent the primary source of new music sales, and we would all be the better for it.

 

JC

 

(Yawn)

Without Apple, I doubt there would be a thriving music industry today, but that is opinion.

 

I thought, by the way, that I could certainly tell the difference between Apple's carefully mastered AAC256 streaming files and the CD quality FLACs streamed by Tidal.

 

In many cases the AAC256 version from Apple sounded better. In some cases the Tidal FLACs sounded better. In other cases, I could not tell the difference, sighted or blind. Trainwreck. I certainly didn't get the results I expected.

 

I find Tidal offensive, as apparently, you do Apple. But I think you are wrong about the sound quality. Perhaps just a bias against Apple, irrational as that appears to me.

 

But the pojnt is enjoying the beautiful music available to us. Imill definately get mine from some place other than Tidal. Where you get yours is up to you.

[Superdad]

What companies, products or technologies won't survive 2016?

 

Diesel Volkswagen cars?

[esldude]

Diesel Volkswagen cars?

 

That is like......so.....2015..... you know Dad. Come on get with the times.

[Audio_ELF]

While I don't support Jay Z, or his music, he didn't create Tidal, he simply bought it. I suspect there are many people who own large companies that we might not like the views or actions of, but we simply are not aware of it.

 

As far as Apple streaming quality, Paul, while I certainly respect your right to your personal opinion, I've listened back to back with Tidal and Apple, on a friends setup, and found the gulf between the sound quality of the two hugely in Tidal's favor. Even in a purely technical sense, it could not be otherwise when you are comparing Tidal's lossless "cd quality" FLAC streaming and Apple's AAC MP garbage.

You are not comparing the same thing...

 

Jay Z's views on women, ethnic minorities, etc. (as expressed by his music) may cause some people to boycott any company he is associated with. And this is not a free speech issue either. No one has said he shouldn't be making this music only that by making this music he must accept the consequences. It would only be a free speech issue if (for example) Paul was running a music service of his own and refused to sell any of Jay Z's music because of the views expressed on particular songs. I can't particularly see why there would be any difference if he "created" Tidal vs having "simply bought it".

 

And yes other companies also live by their "spokesmen's" or owners views. As an example I would avoid anything owned by Donald Trump as a consequence of his views and statements for example (and I don't really want to get into a debate over Donald Trump's views this is just an example).

 

You are obviously aware of the kind of music that Jay Z produces and choose to patronise Tidal despite of it. That is your choice and no one (that I am aware of) says that is a wrong choice. Paul just expresses a different view.

 

Separately you feel that Apple have driven the reproduction of music to the lowest common denominator. It is a reason you may choose not to patronise the company.

 

I do find the comment "If iPods had never existed, at least in the case of the MP3 sonic swill they made into a mainstream music format for completely non-discerning teenagers and young adults [...]" ironic as it is often a negative posted about Apple that they never invented anything (especially not the MP3 player) yet they are blamed for the result of it. My own opinion is that iPods players were a significant step UP in sound quality compared with the earlier MP3 players and the Walkman cassette players and even Discman type players that went before it. iPods and MP3 did not create the way of listening to music which dominates these days. In the UK (which is where I have knowledge of the market place) the blame would go much further back for the "dumbing down" of sound quality - I stick by my view that for the average consumer with a moderate interest in music, the modern iPod or MP3 player connected to an average speaker dock or TV soundbar is going to sound better than anything they have had before.

 

I would support the suggestion that a step up to lossless CD quality would be a good thing (generally I would say I couldn't pick out Spotify vs a CD in listening, but I do something feel there is something "missing" when listening to Spotify) in the case of iTunes downloads and Apple Music, but I suspect there would in the majority press be a backlash over how the capacity of the players had decreased and the costs of the data for streaming had increased and likely result in class action suits against Apple (without merit); so Apple's choice is between being damned by the majority users, or being damned by a few audiophiles...

 

There is also the issue that its not just Apple's decision, they have to negotiate with the record labels - look at the (reported) difficulty they are having over negotiating to offer a streaming service for TV; Tidal has the advantage of being a small service and therefore the labels can approach them from a position of them having the power, where Apple have become large and powerful in their own right and therefore the default position (from the record labels) is one of "no" (it appears). Given all the rumours, I suspect Apple is working towards lossless streaming: the issues will be over costs, possibly DRM and the labels being concerned over loosing control.

[davidbeinct]

What's wrong with Jay Z? I boycott anything associated with Eric Clapton, he shot a sheriff.

[Audio_ELF]

What's wrong with Jay Z? I boycott anything associated with Eric Clapton, he shot a sheriff.

Lol

 

On the positive side he didn't shoot the deputy!

[james45974]

What companies, products or technologies won't survive 2016?

 

Arse Technica lists Rdio and Tidal

 

How about putting MQA on the watch list!

[esldude]

How about putting MQA on the watch list!

 

Not a bad suggestion. The slow, as in slow as molasses roll out makes me wonder. I can see building up the vibe some and such, but something else is slowing them down. The buildup has been going for more than a year already, and the best time for roll out coinciding with public interest has passed, imo. Nevertheless, I think they will keep it on life support and it most likely belongs on the list for 2017. It strictly speaking isn't going to kill Meridian, but I doubt it will be successful.

 

Worse, it may be more or less a good thing. The cloak and dagger nature of it however leaves me feeling as if it is more hype than anything.

[Paul R]

Not a bad suggestion. The slow, as in slow as molasses roll out makes me wonder. I can see building up the vibe some and such, but something else is slowing them down. The buildup has been going for more than a year already, and the best time for roll out coinciding with public interest has passed, imo. Nevertheless, I think they will keep it on life support and it most likely belongs on the list for 2017. It strictly speaking isn't going to kill Meridian, but I doubt it will be successful.

 

Worse, it may be more or less a good thing. The cloak and dagger nature of it however leaves me feeling as if it is more hype than anything.

 

I think that MQA is being spun now as the label's answer to copy protection. The labels always try to put out inferior quality versions of the music they hold, rather than copies of the highest quality masters. There is some thought this is so they will have something to sell later on.

 

It would be annoying to them if the master recordings got out and were then pushed around on a torrent. Who would ever buy another copy of that album if they already had the best possible copy of it sitting on their local storage?

 

-Paul

[esldude]

I think that MQA is being spun now as the label's answer to copy protection. The labels always try to put out inferior quality versions of the music they hold, rather than copies of the highest quality masters. There is some thought this is so they will have something to sell later on.

 

It would be annoying to them if the master recordings got out and were then pushed around on a torrent. Who would ever buy another copy of that album if they already had the best possible copy of it sitting on their local storage?

 

-Paul

 

That doesn't quite add up in my mind. If they agree to MQA, and it authenticates back to the front end, then they will have just given up the best version. As this can be distributed as FLAC or ALAC files it could be pirated, copied or whatever. So I am failing to see how it is something like DRM. Seems more like the same old marketing ploy of we have something better than before so buy all of this again.

 

After the first round of MQA, it could be spun around one more time. Then they could remix/remaster using equipment that let MQA work even better since the equipment was known for certain. Then in 10 years or so they will need to find another fix for even more perfect recordings.

[Paul R]

That doesn't quite add up in my mind. If they agree to MQA, and it authenticates back to the front end, then they will have just given up the best version. As this can be distributed as FLAC or ALAC files it could be pirated, copied or whatever. So I am failing to see how it is something like DRM. Seems more like the same old marketing ploy of we have something better than before so buy all of this again.

 

After the first round of MQA, it could be spun around one more time. Then they could remix/remaster using equipment that let MQA work even better since the equipment was known for certain. Then in 10 years or so they will need to find another fix for even more perfect recordings.

 

I didn't say DRM- just not making the highest possible quality available. Master tapes digitized to <whatever the best quality is at any time> always stands a chance of being improved on in the future. So a MQA version, with it's selective lose compression, may sounds great today, but they can always market the next version in a couple of years. (grin)

 

Personally, I usually like the CD or digitized vinyl album better than most of the "hi res" releases I listen to. The differences to me, while there, are subtle.

 

MQA is a nice product, and sounds great. But so does DSD, and in fact, so does both CD quality and even 320MP3 and 256AAC. Now 64KMP3's are unlistenable to me, at least on anything better than a squeaky little built in computer speaker...

[trappy]

Still trying to figure out exactly what's offensive in the JayZ, erm, verse you posted, Paul. I could imagine that conversation with Mr Z or his persona might well be tedious, as similar conversations are with, say, my receiving staff at work, but offensive?

[Daren F]

Why Tidal?.....did I miss something about there business, kindly share if anyone has the facts...I hate being out of the loop...please and thanks

 

as for dead pool...the size of goal tenders equipment in hockey

 

Speaking of hockey, how about the Phoenix Coyotes? They've been on life support a long time.

[wgscott]

Diesel Volkswagen cars?

 

I was thinking audio-related companies, product or technologies.

 

The NAZIcar is too popular to go away just because they got caught doing what all the auto manufacturers probably do.

[raelamb]

Deezer is $15 for lossless and can be accessed on the desktop through a web browser much as any other service can be. You do not need to go through Sonos to use it.

 

You do still have to go through Sonos if you live in the US. It still is not officially launched here.

[realhifi]

You do still have to go through Sonos if you live in the US. It still is not officially launched here.

 

No. The app is available in Apples App Store and you can use their site through your browser. I live in US.

[ADCO]

Speaking of hockey, how about the Phoenix Coyotes? They've been on life support a long time.

 

Well... Isn't that the truth... I live in London Ontario, we have one of histories most successful Major Junior hockey teams ( London Knights) and as a junior team we average 9500 people per home game at prices from roughly $20-$60 per seat not including the full box suits....

How anyone can imagine that a pro hockey club can survive in a place(s) where junior golf / football / baseball has better attendance than a pro hockey club completely bewilders me.

I get that a league wants to expand and create interest but one has to understand that up here we live this S___t all year long, hell I'm 51 and played major junior a life time ago and still play 4 times a week all year long.... And trust me when I say this is not unusual at all...

i guess point being is that a sports success typically needs a grass roots culture from children up to really gain traction... I don't see that to be the case in some of the expansion cities down south.... Dam shame too as there are some fine athletes playing on these clubs.

[Paul R]

Still trying to figure out exactly what's offensive in the JayZ, erm, verse you posted, Paul. I could imagine that conversation with Mr Z or his persona might well be tedious, as similar conversations are with, say, my receiving staff at work, but offensive?

 

I suppose it is a matter of personal viewpoint.

[TubeLover]

Lol

 

On the positive side he didn't shoot the deputy!

 

Good one, David and great followup, Eloise. Thank you, I needed a laugh tonight!

 

JC

[TubeLover]

Well... Isn't that the truth... I live in London Ontario, we have one of histories most successful Major Junior hockey teams ( London Knights) and as a junior team we average 9500 people per home game at prices from roughly $20-$60 per seat not including the full box suits....

How anyone can imagine that a pro hockey club can survive in a place(s) where junior golf / football / baseball has better attendance than a pro hockey club completely bewilders me.

I get that a league wants to expand and create interest but one has to understand that up here we live this S___t all year long, hell I'm 51 and played major junior a life time ago and still play 4 times a week all year long.... And trust me when I say this is not unusual at all...

i guess point being is that a sports success typically needs a grass roots culture from children up to really gain traction... I don't see that to be the case in some of the expansion cities down south.... Dam shame too as there are some fine athletes playing on these clubs.

 

Very well said, ADCO. I played a lot of hockey too, and am about ten years older than you. I was still playing three to four times a week too, until surgeries on each knee in the last 24 months. I also understand the culture of hockey in Canada, having played there often, in the past, and being from Michigan, which is, as Don Cherry has said, a essentially southern extension of Canadian hockey.

 

I couldn't agree more with the unfortunate expansion of the NHL into southern areas of the United States that simply do not know the game, and as you noted have far greater interest in things like golf, or fishing or NASCAR, which isn't even a sport. I think Bettman has been the wrong guy all along to lead the NHL. He also does not understand hockey and has led the great game into being almost a shell of itself, in certain ways. At least four or five of those franchises should be moved to Canada where the great athletes playing for them would be appropriately appreciated and the teams receiving the support they deserve.

 

JC

[LCC0256]

"Seriously though, I don't support "art" (trash!) like the crap below, not with my dollars at least. If other people want to spend *their* money on it, I have and want no say about it. I suspect there are enough people like me that Tidal will either fail, or will be a niche product"

 

+1 Now if EVERYONE of voting age who shares that EXACT opinion (re folks like "Jay Z" and others who spew the (IMO) litany of discordant cacaphonous "rap" garbage) will turn out in the next national election...i will feel much better about my children (and grand-children's) future to live free and thrive. You know so they too can post on forums like this - while freely expressing their opinions without fear of repercussions by the federal GIVErMEnt. In addition having the freedom to EARN A LIVING commensurate with the level of income required to purchase many of the suggested "audiophile" pieces of equipment so cherished and sought after here....The very people who claim so much hatred for this country (many though the lyrics of this "rap" crap) are benefitting greatly by the freedom to do so.... What irony...but most would not even know the connotation of the word...

 

Ok now all chime in about how i am trying to hijack the thread. But we were talking about capitalism in general....so it is not too much of a stretch...