Roon / HQPlayer Integration

[REShaman]

Kman suggested to try turning off App Nap: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/build-99-hqp-stopping-and-shrieking/7260/9

 

And amazingly, it worked for me. For the first time in awhile now Roon and HQP are playing together. I turned it off via Terminal.

 

Seek and ye shall find (smile). Congratulations.

 

Best,

Richard

[sdolezalek]

After trying all the common players I found A+ to be head and shoulder above the rest when it comes to SQ and user experience.

 

Then I tried Roon with HQPlayer plus NAA.

 

Roon make some other player apps look ridiculously amateurish. World class UX and visual design (Im a designer).

 

Roon + HQP + NAA sounds bigger, more fluid and more alive – to my ears/setup. A+ now comes across as hard and congested. This without any kind of up software sampling or filtering in either A+ or HQP.

 

I found my new champion combo.

 

Same here Roon/HQPlayer/NAA upsampling everything to DSD128 and now using Roon build 99 and HQP version 3.13b2. It all works great and sounds great!

[firedog]

HQP doesn't automatically switch sampling rates.

[Krutsch]

I took the plunge and bought a HQP license to use with Roon. Everything just worked, once I added my MacBook's Bonjour name to the network location in Roon, as I am running RoonServer on a Mac Mini nearby, and installed the NVIDIA Cuda drivers on my MacBook.

 

Wow... I can't believe what this playback chain does for Redbook audio. I think it's going to be a long night with the Head-Fi rig :-)

[nikander]

Applause to Jussi and the people of Roon - everything works great now with build 99 and the new beta of HQ. No disconnections at all so far.

 

A question to all the users here:

Has anyone compared music quality of streamed music titles (in tidal hifi quality) with music titles of your own hard disk or server?

In my setup there is still a significant difference but I somehow expected that.

 

Regards,

 

Christian

[firedog]

1. The new Roon and HQP builds have solved almost all the "dropped connection" issues for me.

2. Tidal: varies. Sometimes I have sound as good as a CD, sometimes not. Don't forget that the Tidal album may be a different master than the CD in your collection, so it isn't necessarily an apples to apples comparison.

[Priaptor]

1. The new Roon and HQP builds have solved almost all the "dropped connection" issues for me.

2. Tidal: varies. Sometimes I have sound as good as a CD, sometimes not. Don't forget that the Tidal album may be a different master than the CD in your collection, so it isn't necessarily an apples to apples comparison.

 

I have never had dropout issues but I am having stopping issues.

 

If someone running Roon/HQP on a PC has no issues upsampling to DSD I would love to hear from them and maybe we can narrow down the issues. Apparently things are different between MACS/PCs/Linux.

 

The Roon people are claiming it is a HQP issue we are experiencing as they are doing nothing differently in their streaming but that it may be how HQP buffers.

 

I think future posts when people claim all is good or they are having problems should include how they are running Roon/HQP, whether on a MAC, etc and if the no issues are streaming PCM-->DSD or DSD--->DSD.

 

For me this combination has been the worst at not being able to get through a Queue.

[jhwalker]

I have never had dropout issues but I am having stopping issues.

 

If someone running Roon/HQP on a PC has no issues upsampling to DSD I would love to hear from them and maybe we can narrow down the issues. Apparently things are different between MACS/PCs/Linux.

 

The Roon people are claiming it is a HQP issue we are experiencing as they are doing nothing differently in their streaming but that it may be how HQP buffers.

 

I think future posts when people claim all is good or they are having problems should include how they are running Roon/HQP, whether on a MAC, etc and if the no issues are streaming PCM-->DSD or DSD--->DSD.

 

For me this combination has been the worst at not being able to get through a Queue.

 

I'm not having any problems with stopping.

 

The only problem I was having was setting my DSD128 maximum rate to 6144000 instead of 5644800. Since setting 5.6 as the maximum, playback has been flawless.

 

On my system, Roon runs headless on a Mac Mini, I use MacBook Pro (connected wirelessly) as the "remote", and HQPlayer is also running on my MBP. So Roon processing happens on the Mini, then streams wirelessly to HQPlayer on my MBP, where the HQPlayer processing takes place.

[ted_b]

Howie, I am (knock on wood) having no issues so far, upsampling all content to DSD256 (ASIO not DoP), using the following:

* Android Roon remote (build 94, haven't looked to see if GooglePlay has the build 99 update yet)

* Roonserver (build 99) and HQPlayer (3.12) on i7 3770S 64 bit WS2012 R2 with AO, with Mellanox fiber SFP PCI card

* HQP NAA on DN2800MT Atom-based WS2012 R1 AO, JCAT USB card

* current DAC for this report is Fore Audio DaisY1 with Amanero Combi384 USB driver (ASIO, raw DSD).

* HQP player settings in pic below

[jhwalker]

I'm not having any problems with stopping.

 

The only problem I was having was setting my DSD128 maximum rate to 6144000 instead of 5644800. Since setting 5.6 as the maximum, playback has been flawless.

 

On my system, Roon runs headless on a Mac Mini, I use MacBook Pro (connected wirelessly) as the "remote", and HQPlayer is also running on my MBP. So Roon processing happens on the Mini, then streams wirelessly to HQPlayer on my MBP, where the HQPlayer processing takes place.

 

Quick update: moving the HQPlayer to Mac Mini and setting up NAA on my MacBook Pro works even better Now, all the CPU-intensive stuff happens on the Mini, and only streams to the MBP.

 

Probably need to upgrade my Mini at some point, but working well right now (poly-sinc, ASDM7, 5644800, DSD)

[Forehaven]

So you don't upsample your DSD's Ted?

[sdolezalek]

A question to all the users here:

Has anyone compared music quality of streamed music titles (in tidal hifi quality) with music titles of your own hard disk or server?

In my setup there is still a significant difference but I somehow expected that.

 

Regards,

 

Christian

 

Although I'm never certain whether Tidal has the exact same source material I do, I did yesterday compare several Tidal streams against a ripped CD of the same and consistently heard a slight improvement in the ripped CD. That being said, there are some Tidal streams that sound unbelievably good upsampled to DSD256.

[nikander]

Although I'm never certain whether Tidal has the exact same source material I do, I did yesterday compare several Tidal streams against a ripped CD of the same and consistently heard a slight improvement in the ripped CD.

 

this is also my impression - the covers of the streamed CD`s (Tidal) look the same as my own CD covers - so I have no reason to believe that those were differently produced tracks.

 

But there may be several reasons:

 

when I listen to tracks from hard disk I transfer them to RamDisk first and switch off WLAN to eliminate potentially harmfull effects.

On the other hand I have bought a solution to keep most of the EMI-sources of my Mac Book Pro away from my DAC (AFI-USB (Artistic Fidelity) - one of the best investions of the last years!).

 

The next step is to compare tracks from my own hard disk played in HQ Player only vs. Roon with HQ Player (I still don`t really know how Roon transfers the tracks to HQ Player) - has anyone of your guys tested this?

[nikander]

...best investions...

 

sorry, I meant investments

[Priaptor]

Howie, I am (knock on wood) having no issues so far, upsampling all content to DSD256 (ASIO not DoP), using the following:

* Android Roon remote (build 94, haven't looked to see if GooglePlay has the build 99 update yet)

* Roonserver (build 99) and HQPlayer (3.12) on i7 3770S 64 bit WS2012 R2 with AO, with Mellanox fiber SFP PCI card

* HQP NAA on DN2800MT Atom-based WS2012 R1 AO, JCAT USB card

* current DAC for this report is Fore Audio DaisY1 with Amanero Combi384 USB driver (ASIO, raw DSD).

* HQP player settings in pic below

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23710[/ATTACH]

 

Ted,

 

Thanks

 

Maybe it is my CAPS configuration?? Or maybe the MSB ASIO. Maybe I will experiment with my HUGO and see if the same issues arise. That will at least rule in or rule out my ASIO driver

 

I have tried NAA and HQ direct all with the same issues. It will play 20 minutes of a DSD album and just stop. PCM I am having better luck.

[ted_b]

So you don't upsample your DSD's Ted?

 

I upsample everything to DSD256 (except, I guess, DSD256 source material ).

[craighartley]

I upsample everything to DSD256 (except, I guess, DSD256 source material ).

 

But Ted, do you process DSD256 source material through the HQP filters or do you have direct SDM checked?

[ted_b]

But Ted, do you process DSD256 source material through the HQP filters or do you have direct SDM checked?

 

I do not have DirectSDM checked, because that would not allow me to upsample DSD64 or DSD128 to DSD256

[Forehaven]

I upsample everything to DSD256 (except, I guess, DSD256 source material ).

 

Thanks Ted. Always interesting to check out other user's preferred settings.

[craighartley]

I do not have DirectSDM checked, because that would not allow me to upsample DSD64 or DSD128 to DSD256

 

Thanks. Me too, although it's only just dawned on me that that means the 256 is processed too.

[Freann]

Up till now my NAA (mac mini) was connected to the router with 100Mbit FMC’s.

Rest of network incl NAS etc on gigabit CAT 7.

 

Massive amounts of dropouts.

 

But tonight I upgraded to Gigabit FMC’s. No more dropouts.

 

But – and this is weird. It a bit sound better.

 

When converting between 100 and 1000, was the router (Airport Extreme) doing something the the stream från Roon/HQP that caused dropout and timing errors? Just guessing here...

[ted_b]

Howie, I am (knock on wood) having no issues so far, upsampling all content to DSD256 (ASIO not DoP), using the following:

* Android Roon remote (build 94, haven't looked to see if GooglePlay has the build 99 update yet)

* Roonserver (build 99) and HQPlayer (3.12) on i7 3770S 64 bit WS2012 R2 with AO, with Mellanox fiber SFP PCI card

* HQP NAA on DN2800MT Atom-based WS2012 R1 AO, JCAT USB card

* current DAC for this report is Fore Audio DaisY1 with Amanero Combi384 USB driver (ASIO, raw DSD).

* HQP player settings in pic below

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23710[/ATTACH]

 

Well, I have to apologize to Priaptor. I did not experience his 18 minute DSD cutoff for one special reason: since build 99 I had not let any music/album go on that long. I was always flitting from one album and sample rate to another. But, since experimenting with letting a DSF album run, sure enough here is what happens (see system in post above):

* at about 13 minutes Roon's now playing section freezes, while music continues to play for about another 5 minutes (could be multiple tracks). In one case, NAA crashed with this:

In all other cases, HQP needed to restart, while NAA was fine to restart on its own (i.e never crashed).

 

It "feels" like Roon is timing out somehow, going to sleep or something. I only mention this cuz when I actively use Roon to select another different album, the 18 minute DSD freeze does not happen.

 

Edit: I am way past 18 minutes into a redbook to DSD256 album listen, and nothing special happening except nice music.

[madfloyd]

I am also experiencing random stoppage on DSD sources (but never with PCM).

 

Unlike Ted I am NOT processing DSD files... I thought that wasn't advised... now I need to try it.

[zorntel]

Jussi,

 

Sorry just got scolded over at the HQplayer thread...here goes again with a bit more detail on the Roon/HQplayer DSD playback problems.

 

KMan

3h

 

Regarding DSD playback stopping, I am seeing a very repeatable pattern .

 

• While playing DSD64 (selecting the album and using Play Album -> Play Now), the time/waveform slider stops on Roon exactly after 12 minutes and 38 seconds.
  
• But music continues to play, it finishes playing the current track and plays the next track too. Then stops.
  
• If you ask Roon to skip forward, It skips two tracks.
  

Previously, I thought the music stops where the time slider stopped, but looking closer, I realized it is always after a fixed amount of time. Would be interesting to see if this time is specific to my setup or anyone else is seeing similar behavior. 12 minutes 38 seconds of stereo DSD64 is approximately half a gigabyte of uncompressed PCM, if that rings any bells to the devs re buffer size.

I was able to repeat the above every time. Both Roon and HQPlayer on Mac- >playing to NAA -> Hugo TT. Hqplayer (3.13.0b2, DSD->PCM 384KHz or direct DSD)

 

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zorntelRobert Morrison

1h

 

ooo...fun KMan. Mine just stopped once again (I'm back to running 3.12 incidentally). I'm going to run it with a long track so its easy to keep an eye on the timing. I'll also run it with a DSD128 file...that should fail twice as fast if it is a buffer issue as you suggest.

 

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zorntelRobert Morrison

40m

 

As anticipated Roon froze at 6:20 on a DSD128 Opus3 DSF file...Kman QED! I had only loaded a track that was about 7 minutes...it played out in HQplayer...but roon's progress bar was frozen right at 6:20. Then I loaded a longer DSD128 track (Reference Recordings DSF file) and once again Roon froze at exactly 6:20. As KMan reported playback continued all the way through the 13:54 track and went onto the next track. Note...Roon was still showing that it was frozen on the prior track at 6:20. The next DSD128 track was 8:31 and it played to its conclusion (which was a total of 22:26 in HQplayer). Playback then stopped in spite of another track in the Roon queue. Now onto DSD256 for more fun and faster tests.

HQPlayer on Mac Mini > playing to NAA > Auralic Vega. HQplayer (3.12) Roon build 99. Output in HQ player was DSD128 (5644800)

 

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RBMRene BouwmeesterRegular

32m

 

Great debugging detective skills guys... I guess @brian will be around shortly to pick up the pieces.

 

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zorntelRobert Morrison

31m

zorntel

 

KMan are you dropping this all to Jussi over at CA? I'm busy running DSD256.

 

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zorntelRobert Morrison

23m

 

Copied these posts over to CA/HQplayer thread for Jussi

 

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KMan

17m

zorntel

 

Zorntel, thanks for confirming and investigating it further. Just saw you posted on CA. We may be getting somewhere here...

 

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zorntelRobert Morrison

10m

 

As anticipated...again...the Roon timeline froze at 3:10s on a DSD256 file....incidentally output to DSD128 in HQplayer. Roon and HQplayer had a lot of trouble negotiating the start of playback...starts and stops...but then by 10s or so playback was smooth. This was regardless of whether I was hardwired on gibabit ethernet (through a gibabit switch) or over a fast wifi connection. Once again the track finished playing and went onto the next one which played to its conclusion and then playback stopped. Roon's timeline was frozen on 3:10s.

 

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brianBrian LuczkiewiczCTO of Roon Labs

7m

 

Thanks for the investigation guys. I'm on it.

 

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zorntelRobert Morrison

2m

 

Just to make things interesting I took the same DSD256 file and sent it to my IFI micro iDSD which handles DSD256. Once again Roon froze at 3:10. Just to make things more interesting I then put HQplayer in pass through mode (SDMdirect)...its not doing any processing...just handing the files right to the DAC (or in my case the NAA). Interestingly Roon and HQplayer had just as many handshake problems getting started. Then you guessed it...freeze at 3:10s. This seems to suggest that the problem is not HQplayer backing up on the processing side.

 

 

 

 

 

[Priaptor]

Well, I have to apologize to Priaptor. I did not experience his 18 minute DSD cutoff for one special reason: since build 99 I had not let any music/album go on that long. I was always flitting from one album and sample rate to another. But, since experimenting with letting a DSF album run, sure enough here is what happens (see system in post above):

* at about 13 minutes Roon's now playing section freezes, while music continues to play for about another 5 minutes (could be multiple tracks). In one case, NAA crashed with this:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23737[/ATTACH]

In all other cases, HQP needed to restart, while NAA was fine to restart on its own (i.e never crashed).

 

It "feels" like Roon is timing out somehow, going to sleep or something. I only mention this cuz when I actively use Roon to select another different album, the 18 minute DSD freeze does not happen.

 

Edit: I am way past 18 minutes into a redbook to DSD256 album listen, and nothing special happening except nice music.

 

Well it is nice to know I am not crazy or experiencing something unique to my setup. As I told Ted, I have tried every possible combination to thwart this issue BUT to no avail.

 

Hopefully the two companies will put their resources together to solve the issue. After hearing HQP there is no going back SO hopefully Roon will resolve whatever issues there are with HQP or I am sure some else will. In any case until such time I will have to load my DSD albums manually into HQP and listen that way.