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  • 3 weeks later...
I don't think it is very helpful in this case. Only possible network related issues that comes to my mind is DHCP lease expiring (if it is very short) and renewal failing, or TCP keepalive timeout due to packet loss (10 second interval, 3 failures cut the connection).

 

There are no changes planned for near future...

 

Most helpful would be log output from networkaudiod (and HQPlayer), but for that it needs to be run from console.

 

Hi Miska,

 

I was using a Schiit Modi 2 Uber with a Wyrd and experiencing drop-outs with music after about 12 minutes of playback. I tried switching to an NAD D 1050, but that DAC doesn't even appear in the Network Audio Adapter drop-down as a valid target.

 

After reading related posts on the Roon Community thread on the NAA topic, I wondered if my problems had more to do with the USB DAC, as opposed to what I had assumed was a networking or internal software issue.

 

So, I tried an optical cable (LifaTec SILFLEX glass TOSLINK, which fits nicely within the recessed Cubox S/PDIF port) from the Cubox-i4 Pro, running the current NAA boot image (naa-311-cubox-i.zip), into the NAD D 1050 DAC. I updated my desktop HQP to 3.13.1

 

Works like a champ - no dropouts, whatsoever. Even sending content via Wi-Fi, up-sampled from RoonServer + HQ Player on my 2011 Mac Mini as 192/24 PCM, without a single tick or pop. Played whole albums without dropouts and gapless playback is flawless.

 

And... I can power-down the DAC without needing to reboot the Cubox NAA; how great is that?

"Play the volume as loud as you want - but don't touch my levels now. I got them set just the way I like 'em."

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Hi Miska,

 

I was using a Schiit Modi 2 Uber with a Wyrd and experiencing drop-outs with music after about 12 minutes of playback. I tried switching to an NAD D 1050, but that DAC doesn't even appear in the Network Audio Adapter drop-down as a valid target.

 

...

 

 

One more update: I tried this again with an AQ DragonFly 1.2 I had on hand. Different issues, this time. The DAC does appear in the "device" drop-down and seems to play properly with Roon.

 

However, rewinding to the beginning of the first song throws the DAC out of sync and plays with lots of dropouts (i.e. ticks/pops). That is, start playing an album and before the end of the first song, hit the << button on the Roon control app. Rewinds to the beginning and starts playback, but with lots of dropouts.

 

I put back in a Schiit Modi 2 Uber with the TOSLINK connection and the NAA works perfectly.

"Play the volume as loud as you want - but don't touch my levels now. I got them set just the way I like 'em."

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One more update: I tried this again with an AQ DragonFly 1.2 I had on hand. Different issues, this time. The DAC does appear in the "device" drop-down and seems to play properly with Roon.

 

However, rewinding to the beginning of the first song throws the DAC out of sync and plays with lots of dropouts (i.e. ticks/pops). That is, start playing an album and before the end of the first song, hit the << button on the Roon control app. Rewinds to the beginning and starts playback, but with lots of dropouts.

 

I remember reading somewhere that the Wavelength's USB Audio Class firmware that is used for example in Dragonfly has a bug that makes it not work properly for example with Linux.

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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I remember reading somewhere that the Wavelength's USB Audio Class firmware that is used for example in Dragonfly has a bug that makes it not work properly for example with Linux.

 

Which version of the Dragonfly? I never had problems with the original on Linux or FreeBSD.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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Which version of the Dragonfly? I never had problems with the original on Linux or FreeBSD.

 

It is not so much about Dragonfly, but more about the particular USB Audio Class implementation. Google found the place where I've seen it: Auralic's firmware update release notes - known issues:

"USB DACs running on Wavelength USB firmware can not use USB playback function due to a confirmed bug of Wavelength USB firmware under Linux. The known effected brands are: Ayre, Aesthetix and Berkeley Audio."

 

Auralic uses same Freescale i.MX6 SoC as CuBox-i...

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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It is not so much about Dragonfly, but more about the particular USB Audio Class implementation. Google found the place where I've seen it: Auralic's firmware update release notes - known issues:

"USB DACs running on Wavelength USB firmware can not use USB playback function due to a confirmed bug of Wavelength USB firmware under Linux. The known effected brands are: Ayre, Aesthetix and Berkeley Audio."

 

Auralic uses same Freescale i.MX6 SoC as CuBox-i...

 

That's interesting, thanks for sharing. I will add a data point, however: I can boot the same Cubox-i setup from a volumio image and the USB-to-DAC connection works fine, although it doesn't support hot-plugging the DAC.

 

I haven't tried this with the Dragonfly + volumio, however, so that sounds like a different issue.

 

I am happy with the NAA TOSLINK solution, but I think there is something amiss with the NAA code and USB-to-DAC connection handling, based on my experience with three different DACs.

 

EDIT: and I will add this: if you want me to try/test anything for you, just let me know.

"Play the volume as loud as you want - but don't touch my levels now. I got them set just the way I like 'em."

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That's interesting, thanks for sharing. I will add a data point, however: I can boot the same Cubox-i setup from a volumio image and the USB-to-DAC connection works fine, although it doesn't support hot-plugging the DAC.

 

EDIT: and I will add this: if you want me to try/test anything for you, just let me know.

 

You are using my NAA image for all the NAA testing? What could be useful and possibly helpful for your case would be to try bare bones Debian Stretch (more discussed in Networking / NAA thread here) and install networkaudiod package on it for comparison. It may help also on the DAC hot-plugging things. Reason for this is that it has a different kernel version and different hot-plug daemon...

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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Need some help, please. Roon server is set up on a NUC i7 with 16GB RAM. Music is stored on a Synology DS-1813+. DAC is Oppo HA-1 plugged into the NUC via USB. For some reason I cannot get HQPlayer to force PCM to DSD conversion. I have tried various settings but everything still comes out PCM. PCM upsampling works to the 352.8/32 limit of the HA-1. Everything is working well and sounds great; no dropouts. Just can't get DSD out.

 

I am sure I am missing something simple, but please share your ideas on what I need to do. Thanks!

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Need some help, please. Roon server is set up on a NUC i7 with 16GB RAM. Music is stored on a Synology DS-1813+. DAC is Oppo HA-1 plugged into the NUC via USB. For some reason I cannot get HQPlayer to force PCM to DSD conversion. I have tried various settings but everything still comes out PCM. PCM upsampling works to the 352.8/32 limit of the HA-1. Everything is working well and sounds great; no dropouts. Just can't get DSD out.

 

I am sure I am missing something simple, but please share your ideas on what I need to do. Thanks!

 

In the main window, on the right-most drop-list, select "SDM" as output format. That should do the thing.

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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In the main window, on the right-most drop-list, select "SDM" as output format. That should do the thing.

 

Thanks, that worked. Seems that the NUC does not have the horsepower to do SDM conversion. HQPlayer bombs out. Not surprising. I switched the Roon server to a desktop and all is working well.

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Thanks, that worked. Seems that the NUC does not have the horsepower to do SDM conversion. HQPlayer bombs out. Not surprising. I switched the Roon server to a desktop and all is working well.

 

Depends on the output rate and NUC model, but up to DSD256 should be fine with any of the -2s filter variants.

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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Depends on the output rate and NUC model, but up to DSD256 should be fine with any of the -2s filter variants.

 

That, indeed does work. NUC is an i7 with 16GB RAM and is playing perfectly now from a 44.1/16 FLAC on my server to 11.28 MHZ DSD.

 

Thanks!! Just getting my feet wet with up-sampling. I have been a HiFi buff for over 50 years but only recently have gotten into HD audio. Even with my tired ears, it sounds fantastic.

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I need some advice, and was referred to this thread. I did read thru some of the thread for my answer but did not see it.

 

I use a CAPv4 Pipeline Server with Elberoth mods -> Lampizator Golden Gate 'dsd' only dac. I have 15 terabytes of PCM and dsd files growing daily. Currently I'm using JRiver version 21 to upsample all my PCM to QUAD dsd and use JRemote as my interface. Also; I use Windows 2012 RS in core mode with Audiophile Optimizer.

 

I enjoy the solid 'easy to use' interface of JRiver and am a serious vinyl and tape person for my most intense listening, but do also love great digital.

 

I'm no techie; but have a network engineer son who has supported my technical efforts.

 

here is my question related to this thread;

 

is Roon -> HQPlayer upsampling PCM to Quad dsd suitable for server based listening 'only'?......and .....is this Roon-> HQPlayer upsampling pcm to Quad dsd 'ready for prime time' as a solid 'easy to use' listening solution without techie skills. I am told it's a significant jump in performance, will it work smoothly? or should I wait and give it more time to mature?

 

will Roon -> HQPlayer work seamlessly with the Windows 2012 RS in core mode with Audiophile Optimizer without problems?

 

I am not dis-satisfied with the JRiver pcm -> Quad dsd upsampling but would certainly appreciate a performance jump.

 

I am happy with my dsd (up to Quad) performance as is and am not asking about that.

 

and I owned a Trinity dac for PCM for 4 months which has set the bar very high as far as what can be done for pcm performance. I would love to get close to that with up-sampling to Quad dsd.

 

I can get my son to help me change; but only if he won't need to hold my hand too much with the new software. my current set-up has been 100% trouble free since he set it up.

 

thanks in advance for any help.

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Hi Mike,

 

Let me give you my 2 cents to your questions

 

is Roon -> HQPlayer upsampling PCM to Quad dsd suitable for server based listening 'only'?......

 

Roon to HQP can successfully run on many setups. The control software and server software (Roon Core) do not need to be on the same PC but can be on different PC's connected over a network.

 

Roon Control running on a Surface Pro can very nicely direct the Roon Core

A iPad running the Roon app can also very nicely direct the Roon Core

 

Or you can have everything running on a Surface Pro 4 on Mac Book Air

 

Converting 16 / 44 PCM to DSD 512 is quite a CPU load and Roon Core needs to be running on a powerful i7

 

is this Roon-> HQPlayer upsampling pcm to Quad dsd 'ready for prime time' as a solid 'easy to use' listening solution without techie skills

 

Roon to HQ Player is still in Beta, but it works very well, and with each release it's getting better. IMO the Roon interface is a quick learn, and gives a music browsing experience second to none

 

I am told it's a significant jump in performance, will it work smoothly?

 

The significant jump in performance is coming from HQ Player. Roon is a very nice front end and the folks at Roon and Jussi Larko have put a lot of time and effort into making them work well

 

HQ Players magic doing PCM to DSD conversion comes from the following

- very smart filters which are able to reverse some artifacts created during the original A > D conversion

- very well executed interpolation algorithms

- a choice of filters with optimize digital challenges such as minimum ring, phase accuracy, rise time etc

- a choice of sigma delta modulators (1-bit stream generators) which include 5th order and 7th order algorithms (Note SACD are typically only 3 rd order modulated)

 

HQ Player also does DSD 64 upsampling to DSD 128, DSD 256 and DSD 512

This is the sonic jewel in the crown. A well recorded DSD 64 track upsampled with HQ Player to DSD 256 or DSD 512 delivers a music experience that most audiophiles will never forget

 

will Roon -> HQPlayer work seamlessly with the Windows 2012 RS in core mode with Audiophile Optimizer without problems?

 

On paper this should work, but I have not tried it. IMHO, one is better off using Win 10. Phil at AO is making great strides with his tweaking and tuning Win 10

 

At Sound Galleries we decided to do our custom OS build using Win 10 for our Music Server

 

I can get my son to help me change; but only if he won't need to hold my hand too much with the new software. my current set-up has been 100% trouble free since he set it up.

 

As far as hand holding, this is another reason why we went for Win 10. Our server software builds have Teamviewer installed so that from 8 am to 11 pm Eurotime, we can pretty much fix anything that's not working.

Sound Test, Monaco

Consultant to Sound Galleries Monaco, and Taiko Audio Holland

e-mail [email protected]

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Hi Mike,

 

Let me give you my 2 cents to your questions

 

 

 

Roon to HQP can successfully run on many setups. The control software and server software (Roon Core) do not need to be on the same PC but can be on different PC's connected over a network.

 

Roon Control running on a Surface Pro can very nicely direct the Roon Core

A iPad running the Roon app can also very nicely direct the Roon Core

 

Or you can have everything running on a Surface Pro 4 on Mac Book Air

 

Converting 16 / 44 PCM to DSD 512 is quite a CPU load and Roon Core needs to be running on a powerful i7

 

 

 

Roon to HQ Player is still in Beta, but it works very well, and with each release it's getting better. IMO the Roon interface is a quick learn, and gives a music browsing experience second to none

 

 

 

The significant jump in performance is coming from HQ Player. Roon is a very nice front end and the folks at Roon and Jussi Larko have put a lot of time and effort into making them work well

 

HQ Players magic doing PCM to DSD conversion comes from the following

- very smart filters which are able to reverse some artifacts created during the original A > D conversion

- very well executed interpolation algorithms

- a choice of filters with optimize digital challenges such as minimum ring, phase accuracy, rise time etc

- a choice of sigma delta modulators (1-bit stream generators) which include 5th order and 7th order algorithms (Note SACD are typically only 3 rd order modulated)

 

HQ Player also does DSD 64 upsampling to DSD 128, DSD 256 and DSD 512

This is the sonic jewel in the crown. A well recorded DSD 64 track upsampled with HQ Player to DSD 256 or DSD 512 delivers a music experience that most audiophiles will never forget

 

 

 

On paper this should work, but I have not tried it. IMHO, one is better off using Win 10. Phil at AO is making great strides with his tweaking and tuning Win 10

 

At Sound Galleries we decided to do our custom OS build using Win 10 for our Music Server

 

 

 

As far as hand holding, this is another reason why we went for Win 10. Our server software builds have Teamviewer installed so that from 8 am to 11 pm Eurotime, we can pretty much fix anything that's not working.

 

EuroDriver,

 

many thanks for your very detailed response. that is what I needed. I will show this to my son and have him dig a little deeper into the implications of the changes and see what we can do. a number of knowledgeable people have encouraged me to do this, so I hope it works out to switch to the Roon -> HQP direction soon. sounds like it's workable.

 

if I do I will report back on my experience.

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Does anyone know how much processor power upsampling a DSD 64 file to 512 takes verses converting 44.1/16 PCM to DSD 256? I am considering purchasing some DSD music and want to make sure my Mac will handle it. It will do PCM to DSD 256 fine as long as I use 2s filters. Any idea on this?

 

Thanks,

TC

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a number of knowledgeable people have encouraged me to do this, so I hope it works out to switch to the Roon -> HQP direction soon. sounds like it's workable.

 

And I once more encourage you to also use a second, much simpler device as NAA (something like a Beconnected to your server by Ethernet or ideally Fibre optic) :D

 

There is a whole thread dedicated to the HQ Player NAA here at CA. It's long, but it's a good place to ask for answers.

 

Enjoy!

Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites

Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623

DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels

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Roon to HQP can successfully run on many setups. The control software and server software (Roon Core) do not need to be on the same PC but can be on different PC's connected over a network.

 

Roon Control running on a Surface Pro can very nicely direct the Roon Core

A iPad running the Roon app can also very nicely direct the Roon Core

 

Or you can have everything running on a Surface Pro 4 on Mac Book Air

 

Converting 16 / 44 PCM to DSD 512 is quite a CPU load and Roon Core needs to be running on a powerful i7

 

Roon to HQ Player is still in Beta, but it works very well, and with each release it's getting better. IMO the Roon interface is a quick learn, and gives a music browsing experience second to none

 

The significant jump in performance is coming from HQ Player. Roon is a very nice front end and the folks at Roon and Jussi Larko have put a lot of time and effort into making them work well

 

HQ Players magic doing PCM to DSD conversion comes from the following

- very smart filters which are able to reverse some artifacts created during the original A > D conversion

- very well executed interpolation algorithms

- a choice of filters with optimize digital challenges such as minimum ring, phase accuracy, rise time etc

- a choice of sigma delta modulators (1-bit stream generators) which include 5th order and 7th order algorithms (Note SACD are typically only 3 rd order modulated)

 

HQ Player also does DSD 64 upsampling to DSD 128, DSD 256 and DSD 512

This is the sonic jewel in the crown. A well recorded DSD 64 track upsampled with HQ Player to DSD 256 or DSD 512 delivers a music experience that most audiophiles will never forget

 

IMHO, one is better off using Win 10. Phil at AO is making great strides with his tweaking and tuning Win 10

 

 

Very nicely summarized Edward! I took out some of the references to specific servers, not that I care about self-promoting but simply that it might not make sense to everyone. But the bulk, as copied above, is a great primer for many folks wondering about stepping foot into Roon/HQP. If you don't mind, I may use a sentence or two in upcoming reviews (and will give you credit :) ).

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Miska,

 

I am running HQPlayer with Roon into a SMS-100 NAA. I had initially not connected the NAA and was using the Chord ASIO driver into a Chord Hugo. I set Roon to use the Chord ASIO driver.

 

When I setup the NAA, I, of course made the change in Roon audio settings to enable the Network device. I changed HQPlayer to point to the NAA, all good. Everything sounded great. I went back to today to check the Roon audio settings and realized I left the Chord ASIO driver enabled. Although there was a message that said "failed, audio device not found" I though it best to disable the ASIO driver. When I did, I immediately noticed a big drop in audio quality. Flat lifeless. I turned the ASIO driver back on and yea, sounds great again.

 

Not sure if this is expected behavior and maybe I don't understand the audio routing within Roon, but thought I would bring it up anyway.

PS Audio P5 Power Plant>HQ Player Mac Book Pro BootCamp Win10>NAA Mac Mini BootCamp Win 10>REGEN Green>REGEN Amber>IFI iDSD Micro>BHSE>Stax SR-009

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The Chord ASIO driver sounds like it is loaded on both the Roon machine and the NAA. Don't bother any more with the one on the Roon machine; make sure Roon audio zone is your HQPlayer. Only make sure that HQPlayer's settings are pointed to NAA (backend) and then to the Chord ASIO driver loaded on your NAA (device) and set SDM pack for DoP, as the Chord Asio driver does not allow for raw direct, only DoP (at least in Windows).

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I need some advice, and was referred to this thread. I did read thru some of the thread for my answer but did not see it.

 

I use a CAPv4 Pipeline Server with Elberoth mods -> Lampizator Golden Gate 'dsd' only dac. I have 15 terabytes of PCM and dsd files growing daily. Currently I'm using JRiver version 21 to upsample all my PCM to QUAD dsd and use JRemote as my interface. Also; I use Windows 2012 RS in core mode with Audiophile Optimizer.

 

I enjoy the solid 'easy to use' interface of JRiver and am a serious vinyl and tape person for my most intense listening, but do also love great digital.

 

I'm no techie; but have a network engineer son who has supported my technical efforts.

 

here is my question related to this thread;

 

is Roon -> HQPlayer upsampling PCM to Quad dsd suitable for server based listening 'only'?......and .....is this Roon-> HQPlayer upsampling pcm to Quad dsd 'ready for prime time' as a solid 'easy to use' listening solution without techie skills. I am told it's a significant jump in performance, will it work smoothly? or should I wait and give it more time to mature?

 

will Roon -> HQPlayer work seamlessly with the Windows 2012 RS in core mode with Audiophile Optimizer without problems?

 

I am not dis-satisfied with the JRiver pcm -> Quad dsd upsampling but would certainly appreciate a performance jump.

 

I am happy with my dsd (up to Quad) performance as is and am not asking about that.

 

and I owned a Trinity dac for PCM for 4 months which has set the bar very high as far as what can be done for pcm performance. I would love to get close to that with up-sampling to Quad dsd.

 

I can get my son to help me change; but only if he won't need to hold my hand too much with the new software. my current set-up has been 100% trouble free since he set it up.

 

thanks in advance for any help.

 

Mike,

 

Unless I overlooked/missed something in your setup, I think you need another computer (NAA) to link your 2012 server to the Lampizator. I am pretty much at the same techie level as you are, so hopefully someone else will chime in.

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The NAA machine (a FIFO buffer) is only an option, not required for HQPlayer. You can connect your DAC to the HQPlayer machine or you can run a second computer with a minimum of stuff on it, and then connect the dac to it. I will copy/paraphrase from an earlier post of mine:

 

For the NAA option the basic idea is to isolate the fairly simple computer-to-DAC interface (NAA) from all the noise and power of your Pipeline's heavy lifting (HQP and Roon work). So...unclutter a spare computer (a clean minimalist Windows 10 install would be good) and simply install your DACs driver on it, and then the NAA software (which is a small networkaudiod.exe). Connect it to your DAC. Put the pc on the same network as the HQP machine, start the NAA daemon (shows up as a DOS command line window) and HQP will find it (HQP setting is NAA, then choose the driver).

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The Chord ASIO driver sounds like it is loaded on both the Roon machine and the NAA. Don't bother any more with the one on the Roon machine; make sure Roon audio zone is your HQPlayer. Only make sure that HQPlayer's settings are pointed to NAA (backend) and then to the Chord ASIO driver loaded on your NAA (device) and set SDM pack for DoP, as the Chord Asio driver does not allow for raw direct, only DoP (at least in Windows).

 

Thanks, I'm good with the performance as is. I just thought that enabling or disabling the ASIO driver in Roon audio settings shouldn't have any effect when you really aren't using it (I think) while using the network connected device ( HQP).

 

BTW, there is no ASIO driver on my NAA, (the SMS- 100), it uses Linux audio drivers, I believe.

PS Audio P5 Power Plant>HQ Player Mac Book Pro BootCamp Win10>NAA Mac Mini BootCamp Win 10>REGEN Green>REGEN Amber>IFI iDSD Micro>BHSE>Stax SR-009

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After throwing about 9 kilograms of power supply components into our music server, we get better sound quality results with a one PC system, than we have be able to get on the best 2 PC setup we tried. So at the bleeding edge of reducing electrical noise in audio PC's, we have found it's actually cheaper and more effective to go with one PC than two.

 

It's hard to explain why, we only have several speculative theories

Sound Test, Monaco

Consultant to Sound Galleries Monaco, and Taiko Audio Holland

e-mail [email protected]

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