Roon / HQPlayer Integration

[weedos123]

Not sure this is the correct thread for this, its a simple question relating to HQPlayer and Roon to which there are probably many short and long answers, most of which will go over my head at the moment being a Linux newbie, but here goes.

 

 

I gather from reading either here or elsewhere that HQPlayer needs a GUI to function, I currently have a trial on my mac mini and a licence on the way. I also have a headless Haswell quad core i7 pc with 16GB RAM, on which I have managed to install ubuntu server 15.10. It currently runs only as a Plex Media Server, serving up video. Its my intention to put a headless Roon core and HQPlayer on it when the linux version of Roon comes out. I'd then reuse my existing DAC connected mac mini as the main endpoint using either NAA or room speakers.

 

 

So the question is would I be better off biting the bullet and wiping the PC and installing ubuntu desktop or just try and install a lightweight desktop environment on to the server and if so which one? It would be just for HQPlayer, as I'm quite happy using the command line and ssh to manage the server. Google returns loads of alternatives and I don't have sufficient linux knowledge or experience to understand the differences. Here is a simple example I found offering several alternatives. That's without going into the seeming complex world, to me anyway, of X11 forwarding via ssh versus VNC etc. One of which I assume I'll need to actually manage HQPlayer.

 

 

Many thanks

Paul

[Miska]

With Linux-based headless server, I'd say your technically best option is to use either X11-over-ssh (simple if you have an X11 server on your other computers) or using X11 VNC server that doesn't need real display. This way you don't need to have any local graphical output enabled on your Linux server. You can just install the necessary packages for these on your Ubuntu Server.

 

X11 for Mac OS X:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201341

(ssh is part of OS X already)

 

VNC:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VNC/Servers

TightVNC: Manual Page for vncserver(1)

[weedos123]

Thanks Miska, I was hoping that you'd reply. It was also with my only basic understanding, my preferred option. Being pointed in the right direction is much less frustrating than hopefully wandering around Google

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[Krutsch]

Hello,

 

I am running RoonServer (1.1 build 102) + HQ Player (3.13.0) + naa-311-cubox-i.zip (04-Jan-2016 23:46) running on a Cubox-i4Pro, connected via ethernet.

 

At first, I thought everything was working great, but leaving things run I am noticing that the NAA disappears from the network after about 10+ minutes or so of continuous playback. It no longer shows up in the Device drop-down and, of course, Roon "loses control of the endpoint".

 

If I reboot the Cubox (i.e. power-cycle) it reappears and I can play music again... until it drops off again.

 

Anyone else experiencing this and/or any suggestions on next steps to troubleshoot?

[ted_b]

Hello,

 

I am running RoonServer (1.1 build 102) + HQ Player (3.13.0) + naa-311-cubox-i.zip (04-Jan-2016 23:46) running on a Cubox-i4Pro, connected via ethernet.

 

At first, I thought everything was working great, but leaving things run I am noticing that the NAA disappears from the network after about 10+ minutes or so of continuous playback. It no longer shows up in the Device drop-down and, of course, Roon "loses control of the endpoint".

 

If I reboot the Cubox (i.e. power-cycle) it reappears and I can play music again... until it drops off again.

 

Anyone else experiencing this and/or any suggestions on next steps to troubleshoot?

 

What did you reboot, the HQPlayer/Roon machine or the NAA? Your comments make it look like one and the same, which is not how NAA should be set up (N stands for network). I may be confused.

[Krutsch]

What did you reboot, the HQPlayer/Roon machine or the NAA? Your comments make it look like one and the same, which is not how NAA should be set up (N stands for network). I may be confused.

 

NAA refers to the Cubox-i, running the HQ Player NAA bootable image, accessed via the network and is connected to my USB DAC.

 

Roon and HQ Player are running on the Mac Mini.

 

It's the NAA component (the endpoint) that is dropping off of the network. Rebooting *only* the Cubox-i brings everything back into proper working order.

[craighartley]

I sometimes have similar behaviour using my ExaSound Playpoint as HQPlayer NAA with RoonServer and HQP on a Mac Pro

 

I haven't been able to identify the exact circumstances that cause this. Rebooting the PlayPoint usually solves it. But an alternative way of solving it is to play music from another device to the PlayPoint via AirPlay (this works first time); then when I switch back to using HQP the PlayPoint is found and all is fine.

[Krutsch]

I sometimes have similar behaviour using my ExaSound Playpoint as HQPlayer NAA with RoonServer and HQP on a Mac Pro

 

I haven't been able to identify the exact circumstances that cause this. Rebooting the PlayPoint usually solves it. But an alternative way of solving it is to play music from another device to the PlayPoint via AirPlay (this works first time); then when I switch back to using HQP the PlayPoint is found and all is fine.

 

Interesting... so the endpoint is still running, but the NAA software is dropping the connection and not responding to broadcasts from the HQ Player on your Mac Mini... that's what this sounds like.

 

I will keep trying things and report back any observations. Thanks for your insight.

[Miska]

Anyone else experiencing this and/or any suggestions on next steps to troubleshoot?

 

If you don't have a Linux computer at hand, but one alternative is to build a bit more flexible NAA and see if that behaves better on your environment. If not, it is possible to trace and monitor where things go wrong.

 

(if you do have Linux computer at hand, one possibility is to modify the microSD to allow console login, stop networkaudiod service and run it straight from console to see how things are going on, cubox-i has serial console that can be accessed using microUSB cable)

 

 

Good starting point is plain Debian Stretch installation without any package selections other than OpenSSH server installed. And then install the provided networkaudiod package on it. Depending on your Linux skills, you can find installation instructions from this forum or Roon forum.

 

Stretch installation image can be found here:

Studenten Net Twente - Index of /debian/dists/testing/main/installer-armhf/current/images/hd-media/SD-card-images/

[weedos123]

With Linux-based headless server, I'd say your technically best option is to use either X11-over-ssh (simple if you have an X11 server on your other computers) or using X11 VNC server that doesn't need real display. This way you don't need to have any local graphical output enabled on your Linux server. You can just install the necessary packages for these on your Ubuntu Server.

 

X11 for Mac OS X:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201341

(ssh is part of OS X already)

 

VNC:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VNC/Servers

TightVNC: Manual Page for vncserver(1)

 

Miska

A little bit of reading followed by downloading Quartz for my MacBook Pro to act as the X11 server. Fired up quartz, used ssh to login to the server, installed HQPlayer and the dependencies it wanted, started up HQPlayer from the command line and bingo, there it was running on the Ubuntu server, with the display forwarded to the MacBook Pro. I can't believe how easy it was.

 

Many thanks

Paul

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Computer Audiophile mobile app

[Krutsch]

If you don't have a Linux computer at hand, but one alternative is to build a bit more flexible NAA and see if that behaves better on your environment. If not, it is possible to trace and monitor where things go wrong.

 

Thanks, @Miska, for your thoughtful reply. I've considered running WireShark on the Mac Mini to see if I can discern what might be the issue. To be frank, I believe it's the NAA software stack. I have an alternate microSD card that I use with Volumio and that has been rock solid, so I'm comfortable that the network and hardware are OK.

 

I am really busy with work, right now, so I am going to have to leave this for a while. If there is a new version coming for NAA, I will re-image and give it another go.

 

However, if you'd like and it will be helpful, I will offer to create a WireShark trace capture between the Mac Mini and the Cubox-i NAA and send it your way. Let me know if that's valuable and I will find some time this weekend to do that.

 

Regards, Ken

[Miska]

Thanks, @Miska, for your thoughtful reply. I've considered running WireShark on the Mac Mini to see if I can discern what might be the issue.

 

I don't think it is very helpful in this case. Only possible network related issues that comes to my mind is DHCP lease expiring (if it is very short) and renewal failing, or TCP keepalive timeout due to packet loss (10 second interval, 3 failures cut the connection).

 

I am really busy with work, right now, so I am going to have to leave this for a while. If there is a new version coming for NAA, I will re-image and give it another go.

 

There are no changes planned for near future...

 

However, if you'd like and it will be helpful, I will offer to create a WireShark trace capture between the Mac Mini and the Cubox-i NAA and send it your way. Let me know if that's valuable and I will find some time this weekend to do that.

 

Most helpful would be log output from networkaudiod (and HQPlayer), but for that it needs to be run from console.

[Krutsch]

Most helpful would be log output from networkaudiod (and HQPlayer), but for that it needs to be run from console.

 

Sorry I can't be more help. I will continue to use Roon -> MacBook Pro + HQP, as it sounds just fantastic.

[zorntel]

Now that HQplayer and Roon are working well together for me I've been thinking about how the two programs could better interface with respect to usability. I've also posted the following over on the rooncommunity forum under feature requests:

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-hqplayer-and-ability-to-select-naa/6742/7?u=zorntel

 

I encourage you to add your ideas about this there so that the Roon people see it...as far as I can tell its mainly going to be there work that needs to be done...Jussi has given them great ways to control the settings in HQplayer and group them together.

 

---------------------

 

I've been doing some rearranging because of a computer that is out for service and I discovered another possibility for how roon could switch modes in HQplayer.

 

I have three systems currently being run by a single Mac Pro with both Roon and HQplayer installed.

 

1. Local (Core Audio) IFI micro iDAC connected via USB to the Mac
   
2. NAA (Cubox-i) IFI micro iDSD connected via USB to the Cubox-i
   
3. NAA (Sonore Sonicorbiter SE) Auralic Vega connected via USB to the Sonicorbiter SE
   

The settings (preferences) in HQ player are different for all three set ups...actually quite complicated...nearly every setting differs across the three setups. To catalog these I exported the settings for each setup. Then when I switch in HQ player I just import the settings for that configuration. The exported file is .xml.

 

Currently I switch between settings files using screen sharing to this mac from another mac, or teamviewer from my android tablet as this computer runs headless. It would be ideal if this switch could be made from roon instead.

 

In each case the settings in Roon are the same...just send the files to HQplayer on this particular machine defined by its IP address. If roon could simply have a drop down in the audio settings dialog box (the pop-up box that shows the active zones) that allowed you to select a .xml settings file for hqplayer, that's all you would need. This would keep the interface simple and only power users would need mess with it. I suppose alternatively this could be in the audio set up next to the networked configuration...but I think it would be even more convenient to just have it in the pop-up zone selection. I suppose another option would be to have an advanced tab in the audio setup where you could make all of these selections like you do in the preferences/settings dialogue box in HQplayer...but it seems that for most of the time the export/import option would be more convenient.

 

Thoughts?

[jiminlogansquare]

Apologies if this has been addressed previously, but if you know, how will Roon and HQPlayer work with Dirac? I know, I also hate these sort of highly specific demands for information on niche combinations of equipment and software, but I also think that I may not be so alone after all in wanting to keep the UI benefits of Roon, the undeniably great SQ effects of room correction from Dirac, and maybe, possibly, ramp up all of the above with an enhanced processor like HQPlayer. Thanks and/or apologies in advance for going OT.

[Miska]

Apologies if this has been addressed previously, but if you know, how will Roon and HQPlayer work with Dirac? I know, I also hate these sort of highly specific demands for information on niche combinations of equipment and software, but I also think that I may not be so alone after all in wanting to keep the UI benefits of Roon, the undeniably great SQ effects of room correction from Dirac, and maybe, possibly, ramp up all of the above with an enhanced processor like HQPlayer. Thanks and/or apologies in advance for going OT.

 

On Mac OS X, the combination should work OK, although I have not tested. You should configure HQPlayer to output fixed rate at the actual processing rate of Dirac, which I believe at least earlier was 96k (could be 192k these days, but I'm not sure).

 

Alternatively you could look into using Acourate or Audiolense to generate filters for HQPlayer's convolution engine. Both are Windows applications, but the generated filters of course work fine on any platform where HQPlayer works. So Windows is only needed at the filter creation time.

[1markr]

Is anyone still having issues with HQP 3.13 and Roon, or am I the only one?

 

 

I still cannot manually move from one song to another without HQP crashing on me each and every time. It plays fine when playing a whole album or playlist, but any manual intervention from me causes HQP to crash.

 

 

I am running both HQP and Roon on a bootable OS X SD card on very clean and basic installs of both Yosemite and El Capitan. Running a Macbook Pro with an i7 2.3Ghz processor, 16Gb ram, ExaSound drivers (5.1.3 for Yosemite, and 5.1.6 for El Capitan).

 

 

I usually run PCM to DSD: poly-sinc-shrt-mp, ASDM7, Auto.

 

 

I sent in the HQPlayer settings file a while ago when asked for, but haven't heard back. I'd be happy to submit again, along with logs if necessary.

[jhwalker]

Is anyone still having issues with HQP 3.13 and Roon, or am I the only one?

 

 

I still cannot manually move from one song to another without HQP crashing on me each and every time. It plays fine when playing a whole album or playlist, but any manual intervention from me causes HQP to crash.

 

 

I am running both HQP and Roon on a bootable OS X SD card on very clean and basic installs of both Yosemite and El Capitan. Running a Macbook Pro with an i7 2.3Ghz processor, 16Gb ram, ExaSound drivers (5.1.3 for Yosemite, and 5.1.6 for El Capitan).

 

 

I usually run PCM to DSD: poly-sinc-shrt-mp, ASDM7, Auto.

 

 

I sent in the HQPlayer settings file a while ago when asked for, but haven't heard back. I'd be happy to submit again, along with logs if necessary.

 

I can only speak for myself: I've never had HQPlayer crash on me, at any time. Right now, Roon / HQPlayer integration is working well for me, with an almost identical setup.

 

The major difference between our setups is the need for ExaSound drivers - my DACs run driverless. Wouldn't be surprised if that's a factor.

[1markr]

I can only speak for myself: I've never had HQPlayer crash on me, at any time. Right now, Roon / HQPlayer integration is working well for me, with an almost identical setup.

 

The major difference between our setups is the need for ExaSound drivers - my DACs run driverless. Wouldn't be surprised if that's a factor.

 

John, I think you nailed it.... I bet it is a driver issue.... I posted the below on the Roon forum as well:

 

I think it is an issue with HQP working properly with the exaSound driver. An observation tonight.... When stopping a track in HQP, my exaSound driver icon on the menu bar still had the green "play" icon, even though HQP was stopped. Same thing when running Roon and HQP. When I stopped a track in Roon, it stopped in HQP as well, but the exaSound icon still showed the green "play" icon vs. being "stopped", which is red square icon. Selecting another track to play crashed HQP, which may be due to the state of the exaSound driver.

 

Jussi, what do you think? I know you run an exaSound DAC as well. Can this be fixed?

[1markr]

So, playing around some more, I am certain that its the HQP / exaSound driver combo thats causing the issues of HQP crashing.

 

I have an iFi Micro sitting around, and decided to play around with it instead of my exaSound. Sure enough, the HQP / Roon integration worked without issue, and I was able to jump around tracks over and over without an issue. Working as designed!

 

So, Jussi, I need help in getting the HQP to play nicely with the exaSound drivers! Is anyone successful in running HQP with the exaSound drivers?

[Miska]

So, playing around some more, I am certain that its the HQP / exaSound driver combo thats causing the issues of HQP crashing.

 

I have an iFi Micro sitting around, and decided to play around with it instead of my exaSound. Sure enough, the HQP / Roon integration worked without issue, and I was able to jump around tracks over and over without an issue. Working as designed!

 

So, Jussi, I need help in getting the HQP to play nicely with the exaSound drivers! Is anyone successful in running HQP with the exaSound drivers?

 

I have exaSound e28 on my Win10 machine that I use for testing releases. I have not seen any crashes. Some communication problems between Roon and HQPlayer, but no crashes.

 

On Mac, the 5.1.6 driver works OK on my Mac Mini. But never got e28 play nice with my iMac. I assume you are using ASIO backend with exaSound?

[1markr]

I am running OS X Jussi...and yes, ASIO. If I can remember correctly, 3.12 May have worked ok, but I would have to revisit.

[1markr]

Playing some more today, I found that using exaSound's core audio driver instead of the ASIO driver worked just fine. I am able to jump around tracks in a playlist, between albums, I can skip tracks, etc.

 

The problem with HQP crashing on my MacBook is certainly related to the exaSound ASIO driver.

 

I guess I'd have to listen to both, but what am I losing by sticking to the core audio driver vs. the ASIO driver?

[Miska]

I've just uploaded 3.13.1beta2 for Win & Mac. It should help with ASIO driver issues on Mac.

 

I have also made some modifications to remove any remaining communication problems between Roon and HQPlayer.

[1markr]

Jussi, Bravo!!!

 

No more HQP crashing with the ASIO drivers! At least I can't seem to break it yet! The ASIO driver sounds much better than core audio. Also seems to load a little quicker now.

 

Thanks for your support in fixing this! Well done!