British Dacs dissapointment

[bmoura]

David... The Naim DAC-V1 you tried; did it have the latest (DSD compatible) firmware? Reportedly that improves sound quality.

 

Odd, the spec sheet for the Naim DAC-V1 says it only supports PCM files up to "44.1kHz - 384kHz (16 to 24bit)". No mention of DSD.

https://www.naimaudio.com/product/dac-v1

https://www.naimaudio.com/sites/default/files/products/downloads/files/Naim%20DAC-V1%20-%20Windows%20Custom%20Driver%20Installation%20Instructions.pdf

[davidian]

Odd, the spec sheet for the Naim DAC-V1 says it only supports PCM files up to "44.1kHz - 384kHz (16 to 24bit)". No mention of DSD.

https://www.naimaudio.com/product/dac-v1

https://www.naimaudio.com/sites/default/files/products/downloads/files/Naim%20DAC-V1%20-%20Windows%20Custom%20Driver%20Installation%20Instructions.pdf

 

 

Really odd that they dont promote DSD support, I found out about it here:

Weekend Wrap: Naim DSD support, Arcam MusicLife update, YouTube streaming plans | What Hi-Fi?

[Melvin]

So you are happy with the bimby, how is the synergy with the rest of your system? What type of music presentation do you like?

 

Yes the rubies need very good stands.

 

The BiMBy has nice synergy with my system in it's present state, which is more complex than I normally like (preamp and crossover for the speakers/subs) resulting in:

 

Mac mini > Bel Canto mLink > BiMBy > PS Audio Trio P-200 > Outlaw ICBM-1 > subs & Odyssey Cyclops > Maggies

 

As you can see it's also paired with my Bel Canto mLink converter. I never bothered having the USB module upgraded to the 2nd generation when I sent my Bifrost in for the MB upgrade, thus my preference for the SPDIF connection. It's also wonderful with a much more simple path. Yes, I've used the DAC with my Rubys and the pairing rocks .. plenty of detail and bass with no fatigue. This coming winter my intent is to simplify again for a while using the BiMBy & the Rubys (once I acquire some new speaker stands).

 

As to type of music presentation .. how do you mean?

[semente]

He lists the Mark & Daniel Ruby in his sig

 

Thanks.

Can't see that with the phone app.

 

R

[semente]

I really think a NOS or multibit DAC may be just the ticket for you (an audition or 2 at least). The Rubys need just the right source to sound their best and are incredibly revealing bordering on a "hot" HF. BTW, you are the first person I've seen in quite some time using the Rubys, many folks haven't heard (or heard of) them.

 

I've never listened to the Rubys but your description has confirmed my suspicions that the origin of problem is not in the D/ACs but in the speakers.

 

My suggestion is that the OP should audition other speakers.

 

R

[davidian]

The BiMBy has nice synergy with my system in it's present state, which is more complex than I normally like (preamp and crossover for the speakers/subs) resulting in:

 

Mac mini > Bel Canto mLink > BiMBy > PS Audio Trio P-200 > Outlaw ICBM-1 > subs & Odyssey Cyclops > Maggies

 

As you can see it's also paired with my Bel Canto mLink converter. I never bothered having the USB module upgraded to the 2nd generation when I sent my Bifrost in for the MB upgrade, thus my preference for the SPDIF connection. It's also wonderful with a much more simple path. Yes, I've used the DAC with my Rubys and the pairing rocks .. plenty of detail and bass with no fatigue. This coming winter my intent is to simplify again for a while using the BiMBy & the Rubys (once I acquire some new speaker stands).

 

As to type of music presentation .. how do you mean?

 

Cool system! I also used to have the Mlink, but when I upgraded from the wadia 151 to the arcam irDAC I sold it.

 

I meant your tastes in music reproduction.

[davidian]

I've never listened to the Rubys but your description has confirmed my suspicions that the origin of problem is not in the D/ACs but in the speakers.

 

My suggestion is that the OP should audition other speakers.

 

R

 

I also tried both DACs on my Def Techs SM55, with similar results, funny that you blame the speakers when you have never listened to them.

[semente]

I also tried both DACs on my Def Techs SM55, with similar results, funny that you blame the speakers when you have never listened to them.

 

My suspicions originated from the nature of your complaints and were further reinforced by Melvin's comments.

 

If you are emotionally attached to your speakers or find that some bits of their performance are difficult to equal by the competition you may try to balance their "character" with an inversely "coloured" D/AC but I don't think that two wrongs will make a right and you will be threading a very difficult path.

 

R

[Melvin]

I've never listened to the Rubys but your description has confirmed my suspicions that the origin of problem is not in the D/ACs but in the speakers.

 

My suggestion is that the OP should audition other speakers.

 

R

 

Hmmm .. not too sure about that myself. The speakers use an AMT tweeter of Mark & Daniels design and is brutally honest actually. It's very revealing and can seem a bit hot compared to other designs but I doubt it's the issue here. They're really nice speakers. Here is a comprehensive review from 2006 if you care to read about them: 6moons audio reviews: Mark &*Daniel

 

An afterthought and my point really .. the speakers are very capable and dynamic and should not be the issue. Just the opposite actually.

[semente]

The reviewer describes them as "caffeine-addled detail freaks" and mentioned "HF*information overload".

[davidian]

The reviewer describes them as "caffeine-addled detail freaks" and mentioned "HF*information overload".

 

truth be told they are a bit too energetic on the HF, therefore careful matching its important, with the naim dac V1 the highs where fantastic, with the HRT not so but not bright at all, with the chord extremely bright. But overall they are fantastic, they worked better on my system than my previous Kef LS50, more comparable with my also current Deft Tech SM55.

[intermediatic]

I'd agree on the Ayre Codex as a good match for your system. Give it a try.

[Melvin]

The reviewer describes them as "caffeine-addled detail freaks" and mentioned "HF*information overload".

 

That's you're take-away from the review? Okay then.

[semente]

That's you're take-away from the review? Okay then.

 

I hardly ever read reviews but when I do I make sure to read between the lines...

Reviewers generally try to "disguise" their negative criticism.

 

R

[Melvin]

I hardly ever read reviews but when I do I make sure to read between the lines...

Reviewers generally try to "disguise" their negative criticism.

 

R

 

I pointed you in the direction of Srajan's review so you could perhaps understand a bit more about these speakers in the context of davidian's original post. He speaks of lack of bass, dynamics, and fun (jump-factor?) to which, the Rubys have in spades. If anything, as Srajan hints at with his "caffene-addled" comment, the AMT tweeter may need a bit of taming, thus attention to source. Bass & dynamics? Not a problem. The Rubys are not the issue. Besides, davidian is obviously fond of them and has no intention of ridding himself of these speakers presently. IMO he's on the right track and simply needs DAC ideas/guidance to suit his taste.

 

So the search continues...maybe some of you could help me to find the perfect DAC that suits my tastes:

 

Needs to be Very dynamic and fast, with taut and deep bass, sparkly and well defined highs, I like to feel space between instruments and I dont care about microdetails retrieval but about fun factor. I listen to metal, jazz, world music, and a bit of classical.

[JHG]

The Schiit Yggdrasil.

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f3-article-comments/article-schiit-audio-yggdrasil-multibit-digital-analogue-converter-review-26374/

[Emcee]

I owned a Nait 5i for a while and found that, while it does many things well, it could sound thin at times. I found the active preamp section of the XS 2 to be much easier to match with other components as well as less than perfect recordings.

 

In other words I suspect it's a matter of synergy where the HRT mates better with your Nait and/or the rest of your system.

 

That being said I found the DAC V1 to be just average for the price. The fact that the Naim forum is flooded with Hugo owners says a lot.

[davidian]

I owned a Nait 5i for a while and found that, while it does many things well, it could sound thin at times. I found the active preamp section of the XS 2 to be much easier to match with other components as well as less than perfect recordings.

 

In other words I suspect it's a matter of synergy where the HRT mates better with your Nait and/or the rest of your system.

 

That being said I found the DAC V1 to be just average for the price. The fact that the Naim forum is flooded with Hugo owners says a lot.

 

I also owned the nait 5i ( non italic) and it never sounded thin to me, on the opposite, only weak point to me was the veil/grain on the highs. The 5si its a very different animal and much more sophisticated and better sounding that the previous iterations, before buying my 5si I compared it at home with the XS 2 and I preferred the 5si every time. I still remember my dealers face when I told him so, he was like...what??? But we all care about different things on music reproduction...so YMMV.

 

I always thought that naim would mate well with other naim, but maybe is not like that.

[davidian]

Here posting again to give you folks an update on my search for the right DAC, a month ago I bought a pre-owned HRT Streamer HD, it came together with and AQVOX Low-Noise Power Supply.

Compared to the HRT microstreamer it sounds fuller and richer, compared to the Naim Dac-V1

sounds more dynamic and has better bass, still the highs are not at the V1 level.

 

 

Last week I bought a Bel canto 2.5 also pre-owned, out of the box sounded really harsh!

but after some days that harshness and glare totally went away, I am listening to the 2.5

a lot since the last days, studying it and trying to get a picture of it, my conclusion is that

the budget HRT Streamer HD is not that far from the Bel canto.

 

 

If the bel canto scores 100 then the HRT is a 90 on relation, kind of impressive considering

the huuuuge price difference, the HRT retailed new at 450€ vs Bel canto at €2300.

Things got even more interesting after the ABX test on wich I could barely tell them apart,

they actually used the same Burr-Brown PCM1796 but implementations are totally different.

 

 

In the end I learned that the HRT its a really competent DAC and really good value, the Bel canto

seems a bit overpriced, but considering that also has a preamp, many inputs, a remote, headphone amp, better build, nicer looks… it is more flexible and holds its own value but only at 1000€ IMHO that is what I pay.

 

 

I think I will keep both for now, its hard to let the little HRT go after discovering the value it has, the canto fulfils more of my audiophile expectations since sounds a bit better and looks much better great WAF as well!

 

 

PS:

 

 

I compare almost all Ben canto´s inputs, spidf coax, spif opt and USB and I could not find any difference between them.

 

 

I used the HRT with and without the AQVOX and I could not hear any improvement or degradation of sound.

[Emcee]

I also owned the nait 5i ( non italic) and it never sounded thin to me, on the opposite, only weak point to me was the veil/grain on the highs. The 5si its a very different animal and much more sophisticated and better sounding that the previous iterations, before buying my 5si I compared it at home with the XS 2 and I preferred the 5si every time. I still remember my dealers face when I told him so, he was like...what??? But we all care about different things on music reproduction...so YMMV.

 

I always thought that naim would mate well with other naim, but maybe is not like that.

 

I didn't spend enough time with the 5si so you could be right.

 

I just found the 5i, while more snappy than the XS 2, was not as conducive to longer listening sessions. OK to blast a dynamic sounding tune to impress your brother in law but not as easy to live with on a daily basis.

 

I must say that I'm a bit surprised the 5si is able to drive your 4 ohm, 82.5dB Rubys. With those specs I would picture them more with a SN2.

[davidian]

I didn't spend enough time with the 5si so you could be right.

 

I just found the 5i, while more snappy than the XS 2, was not as conducive to longer listening sessions. OK to blast a dynamic sounding tune to impress your brother in law but not as easy to live with on a daily basis.

 

I must say that I'm a bit surprised the 5si is able to drive your 4 ohm, 82.5dB Rubys. With those specs I would picture them more with a SN2.

 

Yes my Nait 5si was also able to impress my father in law who plays in the Berliner Philarmoniker since 40 years, and yes is also able to drive my Rubys like a champ!

[Melvin]

Here posting again to give you folks an update on my search for the right DAC, a month ago I bought a pre-owned HRT Streamer HD, it came together with and AQVOX Low-Noise Power Supply.

Compared to the HRT microstreamer it sounds fuller and richer, compared to the Naim Dac-V1

sounds more dynamic and has better bass, still the highs are not at the V1 level.

 

 

Last week I bought a Bel canto 2.5 also pre-owned, out of the box sounded really harsh!

but after some days that harshness and glare totally went away, I am listening to the 2.5

a lot since the last days, studying it and trying to get a picture of it, my conclusion is that

the budget HRT Streamer HD is not that far from the Bel canto.

 

 

If the bel canto scores 100 then the HRT is a 90 on relation, kind of impressive considering

the huuuuge price difference, the HRT retailed new at 450€ vs Bel canto at €2300.

Things got even more interesting after the ABX test on wich I could barely tell them apart,

they actually used the same Burr-Brown PCM1796 but implementations are totally different.

 

 

In the end I learned that the HRT its a really competent DAC and really good value, the Bel canto

seems a bit overpriced, but considering that also has a preamp, many inputs, a remote, headphone amp, better build, nicer looks… it is more flexible and holds its own value but only at 1000€ IMHO that is what I pay.

 

 

I think I will keep both for now, its hard to let the little HRT go after discovering the value it has, the canto fulfils more of my audiophile expectations since sounds a bit better and looks much better great WAF as well!

 

 

PS:

 

 

I compare almost all Ben canto´s inputs, spidf coax, spif opt and USB and I could not find any difference between them.

 

 

I used the HRT with and without the AQVOX and I could not hear any improvement or degradation of sound.

 

Nice acquisition .. Bel Canto make some very fine gear! Funny about the last 10% isn't it? Us audionerds spend ridiculous amounts of money on that last little bit. Is it worth it? Maybe. I know it's hard to go back once you've heard "better". Nice you can keep and enjoy both. Good listening.

[davidian]

I just ordered a Bifrost Multi , after so many Delta-Sigma DACs y wanna see what R2R brings in to my system, will update again with my findings.

[holzmann]

To the OP: the Schiit Yiggy is your answer :-)

 

I own a Naim SN2 and also don't like the V1 nor Rega DAC nor the Chord products I've heard.