AudioExplorations Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 What is the best way (how pro's do it for SME's) for backing up the contents of a NAS? Would it be a second NAS in a different location (room/building), set up with remote reapplication (continually mirrored copy)? Thanks Link to comment
mjb Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 If you're running RAID 1 (or 5) there's no need, as that's the raison d'etre of RAID. Otherwise, buy another one Link to comment
kumakuma Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 If you're running RAID 1 (or 5) there's no need, as that's the raison d'etre of RAID. Otherwise, buy another one RAID 1 or 5 doesn't protect you from a major calamity such as theft or your house burning down. I have a small NAS (two mirrored 4TB drives) and I back it up to another 4TB drive using one of these: Voyager by NewerTech - Hard Drive Dock for 3.5" and 2.5" SATA Devices If the capacity of your NAS exceeds the capacity of current HDDs, you will probably need to backup to another NAS. Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
goldsdad Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 If you're running RAID 1 (or 5) there's no need, as that's the raison d'etre of RAID. You couldn't be more wrong. Link to comment
mjb Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Then enlighten us, instead of just being smug.... Link to comment
Allan F Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 RAID 1 or 5 doesn't protect you from a major calamity such as theft or your house burning down. RAID provides redundancy, not backup. It allows immediate recovery in the event of a drive failure. However, if a failure of the NAS affects all drives, your library is damaged or lost. A very important point about RAID that is frequently ignored or misunderstood is that an accidental deletion of files - often a more frequent occurrence than a drive failure - will affect all drives containing that data, leaving no backup. Therefore, backup to at least one external USB drive is an absolutely minimal requirement. Many, if not most, back up to several external USB drives, keeping one in a different location or safety deposit box to guard against fire or other catastrophic disaster. "Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron Link to comment
goldsdad Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Then enlighten us, instead of just being smug.... raid isn't backup Link to comment
AudioExplorations Posted December 19, 2015 Author Share Posted December 19, 2015 Thanks guys, this confirms what I was thinking. I am indeed trying to protect against theft, accidental deletion, or the NAS going haywire for whatever reason. Am running RAID 5. Will put a 2nd NAS in another part of the house. Thanks again. Link to comment
dtb300 Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Don't forget the most import backup - a copy stored offsite. Frequency depends on each, I do monthly. DTB Rig: https://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/9648.html Link to comment
tranz Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 One way that I just recently did. Get a big harddrive (4TB red in my case) and a harddrive dock, (or an USB external drive) hang it directly on the NAS USB port. Use the File Explorer to copy paste the lot. Easy. Link to comment
kumakuma Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 One way that I just recently did. Get a big harddrive (4TB red in my case) and a harddrive dock, (or an USB external drive) hang it directly on the NAS USB port. Use the File Explorer to copy paste the lot. Easy. This is basically what I do except that I use the Backup tool that's included in the Synology OS. Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley Through the middle of my skull Link to comment
plissken Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 If you're running RAID 1 (or 5) there's no need, as that's the raison d'etre of RAID. Otherwise, buy another one The reason for RAID is business continuity in face of a hard disk failure. The data remains highly available. What RAID can't proactively protect you from is say a Virus. You get a Virus on a RAID you're in the same scenario as a single HD. Backup is what you would use to recover clean files from. Link to comment
Audio_ELF Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Just to add to the "RAID is not a (substitute) to backup" mantra. One thing to remember is that if you rely on RAID5 (single disc failure allowed to) there is a huge risk that when you replace the drive, the act of rebuilding the array (after you've replaced the drive) often causes a second drive to fail. Eloise --- ...in my opinion / experience... While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing. And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism. keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out. Link to comment
mansr Posted December 19, 2015 Share Posted December 19, 2015 Just to add to the "RAID is not a (substitute) to backup" mantra. One thing to remember is that if you rely on RAID5 (single disc failure allowed to) there is a huge risk that when you replace the drive, the act of rebuilding the array (after you've replaced the drive) often causes a second drive to fail. RAID-6 handles a double failure which is nice but still doesn't replace off-site backups. With affordable services like Amazon Glacier (no affiliation) there is no excuse for not doing it. Link to comment
plissken Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 RAID-6 handles a double failure which is nice but still doesn't replace off-site backups. With affordable services like Amazon Glacier (no affiliation) there is no excuse for not doing it. Offsite storage is great until you have to restore it all. I setup tiered storage. Heavy i/o to ssd with less frequent to commodity spinner then to local backup and then to offsite Link to comment
mansr Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Offsite storage is great until you have to restore it all. I setup tiered storage. Heavy i/o to ssd with less frequent to commodity spinner then to local backup and then to offsite You should obviously always have a local backup. In most cases (accidentally deleting the wrong file) even an online local backup will be intact. It's in those few cases when it isn't (e.g. fire) that you really want the off-site one. Link to comment
EuroChamp Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Raid 1 or Raid 5 or Raid whatever is not a backup!!! The primary use of a Raid is to shorten the downtime in case of a broken harddrive. You always need a sheduled (or manual) backup to a second medium (tape, disc, cloud, ...) These days it is a good practise to copy the data to a second external harddrive or to a second storage (NAS). I for myself am against raid arrays for home usage (too expensive). I prefer a real backup for the same cost. But in case of a broken harddrive you are in the disadvantage of a recovery from the backup. It does not mean that a Raid is bad - of course it is good to have a raid on top. In my own home network I use two 4-bay NAS' without Raid arrays. But I have an incremental backup (copyjob) every night. When a harddrive dies, I recover the data. Moreoften I need access to accidentially lost (deleted) data, where a Raid is useless. There are many ways to take care of data, my way is one of many ... Link to comment
r_w Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 He's not being smug, Raid protects against random disk failure but it won't help if; the NAS bursts into flames, multiple disks die, the files are encrypted by a virus or the NAS is stolen. In any of those events you will have lost everything for ever! The best way is either swap a couple of USB drives over regularly as mirrored backups (most NASs have good backup apps installed), or get another NAS at the other end of the house (on in preferably in another building) and mirror onto that. SMEs (that don't have masses of data) also often backup to cloud storage, but that can be costly and is limited by broadband speed (in both directions). Hope that helps. Then enlighten us, instead of just being smug.... Source: *Aurender N100 (no internal disk : LAN optically isolated via FMC with *LPS) > DIY 5cm USB link (5v rail removed / ground lift switch - split for *LPS) > Intona Industrial (injected *LPS / internally shielded with copper tape) > DIY 5cm USB link (5v rail removed / ground lift switch) > W4S Recovery (*LPS) > DIY 2cm USB adaptor (5v rail removed / ground lift switch) > *Auralic VEGA (EXACT : balanced) Control: *Jeff Rowland CAPRI S2 (balanced) Playback: 2 x Revel B15a subs (balanced) > ATC SCM 50 ASL (balanced - 80Hz HPF from subs) Misc: *Via Power Inspired AG1500 AC Regenerator LPS: 3 x Swagman Lab Audiophile Signature Edition (W4S, Intona & FMC) Storage: QNAP TS-253Pro 2x 3Tb, 8Gb RAM Cables: DIY heavy gauge solid silver (balanced) Mains: dedicated distribution board with 5 x 2 socket ring mains, all mains cables: Mark Grant Black Series DSP 2.5 Dual Screen Link to comment
aps Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 This is basically what I do except that I use the Backup tool that's included in the Synology OS. What is the name of the tool? (I'm running SDM 5.2.x and don't see a native backup tool so have just been using file transfer) Link to comment
davide256 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Whats the fastest way to backup and restore a Synology NAS if you are upgrading disk size for a 2 disk RAID 0 array? I use my NAS for media only, with original media on the PC in case of a user file mistake on the NAS. What I want to be prepared for is a RAID failure that forces a complete refresh... with a PC I'd do a disk image and use Acronos True Image to restore image at boot up, no additional work required. I don't see a like boot option with Synology, looks like you have to install OS, reconfigure, then copy content? Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
Gregory Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 You should obviously always have a local backup. In most cases (accidentally deleting the wrong file) even an online local backup will be intact. It's in those few cases when it isn't (e.g. fire) that you really want the off-site one. Hi, Some filesystems (ZFS, BTRFS) have a snapshot functionality, you can keep image of your data in time. On my setup I do a snapshot every hour and I keep them for 2 months. This uses more space but I can revert back to any change (file update, delete...). This of course is not a backup either. Just a protection against the thing between the chair and the keyboard :-) G. Link to comment
dean70 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 I backup my Synology Raid 6 setup to a bunch of WD Green drives that I put into a sata drive bay in the desktop machine. I use Sync-Back SE to split the backup over several drives. Used to run a UPS on the NAS until the internal battery cooked - luckily I was there to shut it down. There was no thermal protection other than the unit beeping. I thought these things were supposed to reduce the risk of data loss & failure, not increase them! Last time I will trust a consumer grade UPS. Alchemy Desktop http://www.origen.net.au/Alchemy/ Link to comment
jabbr Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Hi,Some filesystems (ZFS, BTRFS) have a snapshot functionality, you can keep image of your data in time. On my setup I do a snapshot every hour and I keep them for 2 months. This uses more space but I can revert back to any change (file update, delete...). This of course is not a backup either. Just a protection against the thing between the chair and the keyboard :-) G. yep:) more data lost to that than disc failure! Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
jabbr Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 These days it is a good practise to copy the data to a second external harddrive or to a second storage (NAS). I for myself am against raid arrays for home usage (too expensive). I prefer a real backup for the same cost. But in case of a broken harddrive you are in the disadvantage of a recovery from the backup. It does not mean that a Raid is bad - of course it is good to have a raid on top. In my own home network I use two 4-bay NAS' without Raid arrays. But I have an incremental backup (copyjob) every night. When a harddrive dies, I recover the data. Moreoften I need access to accidentially lost (deleted) data, where a Raid is useless. Actually there is little more important than your family photos and videos. Mirroring is hardly too expensive for home use! I backup to 3 NAS! each mirrored. last NAS only gets photos. Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
Audio_ELF Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 These days it is a good practise to copy the data to a second external harddrive or to a second storage (NAS). No argument here I for myself am against raid arrays for home usage (too expensive). I prefer a real backup for the same cost. But in case of a broken harddrive you are in the disadvantage of a recovery from the backup.It does not mean that a Raid is bad - of course it is good to have a raid on top. Actually I'm coming back to the idea that RAID for home is a good idea with a few caveats. First off I'm talking about mirroring rather than RAID5/6 which (unless you have a large media storage requirement) makes things overly complex. Second you need to use a modern filing system such as ZFS or BTRFS - these protect you against bitrot errors which is important for long term storage - there is no point doing regular backups if you don't know what you are backing up isn't damaged. In my own home network I use two 4-bay NAS' without Raid arrays. But I have an incremental backup (copyjob) every night. When a harddrive dies, I recover the data. Moreoften I need access to accidentially lost (deleted) data, where a Raid is useless. A separate backup is still required yes. Eloise --- ...in my opinion / experience... While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing. And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism. keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out. Link to comment
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